Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

6 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

I have two thoughts/theories on this .... both of which might well be wrong.

 

The first one is that I keep on reading  the model railway hobby is one of the most popular past times in the country. If this is true, I suspect that the huge increase in numbers has mainly been down to the excellence of the RTR offerings - many who enjoyed playing trains as kids can now play trains as adults but this time with grown up toys and a real semblance of quality ... which never used to be possible unless you were a serious and talented modeller. If this hypothesis is correct, then it is perhaps not surprising that your article received mixed reactions, as it will as far as many are concerned, have appeared to question if not directly critique their 'real semblance of quality'.

 

The second is that given the way the modern internet appears to work and the alleged increase in numbers getting involved in the hobby, I suspect the lack of perspective or discernment demonstrated by many relating to your article is now the new norm. People seem to think that manners are no longer relevant when posting anonymously from a distance hidden behind a keyboard.

 

I shall be interested to watch over the next 10 - 15 years to see whether the popularity of the hobby falls back at all ....and if so whether modelling then comes to the fore again or not ..... time will tell.

 

Evening Tim,

 

funny. I've read the opposite. That the Hobby is in decline in terms of numbers involved. Reading between the lines, in a recent interview with one of the head RTR manufacturing bod, he indicated that without an influx of new modellers into the hobby, the present situation with regard to RTR production is not sustainable. Making things for yourself, in whatever form that may take, will allow a small group of survivalists to sit out the coming apocalypse.

[Craigw]

 

I have been pottering away for a while now building wagons and other things.  A while back I started to get a bit peeved at taking photos of them on a length of track on plywood so decided that i would make a small diorama to photograph things on. Not based on anything in particular, it is an embankment with a short siding and a length of track that runs the length of the display - which is about 18" long. I still have quite a way to go but I must admit that I have been enjoying building it a great deal and it has given my enthusiasm towards things a lift. I also took an photo last night with some wagons on it just to see what it looks like. These are both phone photos because I was too lazy to drag my D850 out.

 

Anyway, this is what I have been doing modelling wise lately and it is far more enjoyable than discussing the future of the hobby or what ever.  I like building things, the wagons are a variety of kits all fitted with etched details or under frames.  The fun for me is in doing things.  Happy to have less and do it myself than any amount of red and blue boxes.

 

Regards,

 

Craig w

[Willie Whizz]

On 10/03/2019 at 20:40, Nearholmer said:

By no means everything written for model railway magazines “in the good old days” was interesting and well written. There was a fair bit of pompous windbaggery alongside the good stuff, and a fair few of the ‘constructional’ articles left out important steps in the process and/or assumed that everyone had both infinite skills and a ready supply of unobtanium.

 

In short, not every amateur author was a Beal or an Ahern then, any more than they are now.

 

 

... not to mention a vast "Spares Box" that always happened to have exactly the item needed to finish the project to a high standard, but the authors could never be harsed to tell you where you yourself could find the same thing today!

[EHertsGER]

On 01/10/2017 at 06:58, coachmann said:

Even if put regularly put through a carriage wash, the chassis and roof will still turn the same colour as all other stock whether weathered or not. I built a few GNR coaches to add variety to my early 1950's Liverpool-Newcastle workings some years ago. I could not bring myself to weather this 7½ compartment corridor third coach after applying the teak finish, so I settled for differing the shade of the panels....

 

This photo was taken of a GNR 'toplight' brake compo to compare the tumblehome with a Hornby coach which only had the tumblehome at the extreme ends. The flush-windows didn't help the RTR product either...

 

A Gresley 1930's end-door corridor third, the style I hope Hornby will visit one day. (Mousa Models etched sides)...

 

I should add that lining (and white roofs) was reintroduced at the end of the LNER period and the early BR period while teak was still going through works. The 'E' suffix was added around 1952.

A lovely looking coach - I’ve just started out on building a Bedford/Mousa Quad set. Any tips on how the sides/chassisroof go together best. It looks like the body is bolted to the chassis...

 

best,

Marcus

[Jesse Sim]

Are we on the subject of modelling? 

 

Well, a $25.00 Oxford Rail wagon has now been ‘destroyed’, some may call it, but to me it looks much more at home in the Private Coal Merchant siding.

 

 

[Daniel W]

4 hours ago, Atso said:

Regarding current articles in the modelling press, I have been enjoying Ian Nuttall's articles regarding his freight stock for Dentdale in RM. These really show the variety of wagons that ran on the railways, far more than I think will ever be covered by RTR products alone.

 

I have to echo this; the Dentdale wagon saga has been a very enjoyable read. It is rare to see wagons covered in that level of detail outside of MRJ. The truth is that, for the most part, it is possible to prototypically represent the locomotives of the London Midland Region using only RTR offerings. The same cannot be said for the LMR's Wagon fleet. Or indeed, for British Railway's wagon fleet as a whole. In fact, a fair bit of modification, kit-bashing and scratch-building would be needed to build a truly representative fleet. 

 

It would be a pleasant surprise to see more prototype and modelling articles about freight stock in the various publications. Especially since wagons often seem to come a distant third behind locos and carriages in the field of rolling stock.

[Headstock]

Well, I think that the Dentdale wagon saga sounds most interesting, I might even take a look myself. Perhaps the mags have more use (beyond kindle) than has been alluded to.

[Lecorbusier]

9 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Tim,

 

funny. I've read the opposite. That the Hobby is in decline in terms of numbers involved. Reading between the lines, in a recent interview with one of the head RTR manufacturing bod, he indicated that without an influx of new modellers into the hobby, the present situation with regard to RTR production is not sustainable. Making things for yourself, in whatever form that may take, will allow a small group of survivalists to sit out the coming apocalypse.

I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet here Andrew .... you are just further ahead on the curve with your information.

 

From what you say the fall back has already started.

 

I think we had a 'perfect storm' in the form of both a demographic who grew up prior to the emergence of digital electronics all coming to retirement age with a little spare time and cash coupled to cheap manufacturing from china and so the explosion of high quality RTR. We are perhaps now seeing the reverse .... increasing manufacturing costs and a demographic with less time and cash whose childhood did not coincide with the romance of the railways and where model trains were not so prominent.

[Barry O]

9 hours ago, Headstock said:

I haven't had much time for modelling over the last week. However, while looking through some boxes, I did find some examples of brass sided carriages. I snapped off a shot of a PIII Stannier third class Restaurant car. The base of the conversion is an Airfix/GMR/Hornby? PII Restaurant composite. The sides are from the Comet range as are the various underframe gubbins and roof fittings. The carriage required the ride height lowering and the in filling of the substantial cut-outs in the solebars.

 

It is easier building this from a complete kit than faffing about sorting out all the RTR bits. Recently I timed a complete build v a fastening bits onto an RTR donor. The complete build took less time.

Baz

[BlackRat]

There's masses of information out there on the web, in particular YouTube, and there are countless individual sites.

 

The difficulty can be in finding useful ( to you or your need ) articles.

 

Theres a lot of chaff out there but you do find some mighty fine wheat.

 

If I find anything of use (to me) I'll either subscribe to it, or bookmark it.

 

A recent find on Yewchoob was a very useful series (American) on scenery making including some clever use of static grass, and an ingenious method of using cheap wigs to make longer grass, corn etc.

[Re6/6]

24 minutes ago, BlackRat said:

A recent find on Yewchoob was a very useful series (American) on scenery making including some clever use of static grass, and an ingenious method of using cheap wigs to make longer grass, corn etc.

 

That's interesting Neil. Do you have a link?

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, Barry O said:

It is easier building this from a complete kit than faffing about sorting out all the RTR bits. Recently I timed a complete build v a fastening bits onto an RTR donor. The complete build took less time.

Baz

 

Dose it matter how long it takes? When I did this I was young and trying out different techniques and learning as I went, far more important. Besides. as a student I could afford the bits and not the kit. However, It has the advantage of having the correct roof and end profile unlike the kit, the latter may be a quicker solution but not very accurate. Never the less, sometimes railway modelling is about making do with the resources that you have avalible.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Headstock
to clarify

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet here Andrew .... you are just further ahead on the curve with your information.

 

From what you say the fall back has already started.

 

I think we had a 'perfect storm' in the form of both a demographic who grew up prior to the emergence of digital electronics all coming to retirement age with a little spare time and cash coupled to cheap manufacturing from china and so the explosion of high quality RTR. We are perhaps now seeing the reverse .... increasing manufacturing costs and a demographic with less time and cash whose childhood did not coincide with the romance of the railways and where model trains were not so prominent.

I think you and Andrew are dead right, Tim,

 

I have to say I'm amused when some posters take 'exception' to this thread moving away from actual 'modelling' from time to time. As far as I know, nobody polices (is that the right word?) it, and if going off at a tangent from time to time occurs, it soon comes back to actually making things. 

 

Which brings me round to the imminent 'decline' or even demise of the hobby. In 1973, aged almost 27, I joined Wolverhampton Model Railway Club (a decision never regretted). Would you believe, I was just below the average age of the membership? Now, in 2019, at aged 72, I am just above the average age! For a variety of militating reasons, the club will cease to exist in less than two years. We've all had a great time, but all things come to an end.

 

I'm not saying that clubs are the hobby's only outlet for creativity, but the two local ones I'm involved with here, all have an increasing membership age. A few younger modellers appear, but after they leave to pursue education, careers (and women!), they do not return. 

 

By far the largest number of participants currently in the hobby are from the 'baby-boomer' generation, those born just after the War. Now, in retirement, they 'model' mainly what they remember. They are returnees to the hobby. They have the cash, the space and even the time (though the last-mentioned is running out - fast!). Many (because they didn't continue modelling throughout their adult lives?), though 'rich' in the three areas just mentioned, are skill 'poor'. Thus, they're happy to rely on the brilliant RTR/RTP offerings available now and/or get others to do their modelling for them. They've earned that 'right'. 

 

I think it's symptomatic of the current state of affairs that one sees 'huge' discounting from time to time now on some RTR items. Why? Over-production, and/or not as large a market out there for a product as was anticipated? Heljan's O2 springs to mind (now available at around £80.00 - at least £100.00 less than originally-priced!), as do Hornby's various B17s, D16s and K1s. I seem to recall Bachmann's K3s and J11s being heavily-discounted in the past (I cannot comment on locos from other Regions). Is this situation sustainable?

 

I love Andrew's description of a few 'survivalists'. I hope I'm one. Bit by bit, I'm accumulating un-built loco and stock kits, Mashima motors whenever I see them, gearboxes, wheels (I now have hundreds of drivers and carrying wheels of all sizes), plus piles of fittings/bits and pieces. I also have bottles of flux and 'miles' of various solders. I am a hoarder and stock-piler indeed! Track, I don't have much of spare at present, but we'll see.

 

Speaking with various RTR manufacturers (a few now-retired), they know the 'best years' of the hobby have now gone. The best years of the traditional RTR/RTP perhaps, but is the future the new technologies? Developed by those who are still 'young'? 

 

Will I really care? Speaking selfishly, not a jot. As alluded to, I have far more kits than I have years left to build them (in the traditional way). As long as I have electricity..................................  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Re6/6]

14 hours ago, Headstock said:

I haven't had much time for modelling over the last week. However, while looking through some boxes, I did find some examples of brass sided carriages. I snapped off a shot of a PIII Stannier third class Restaurant car. The base of the conversion is an Airfix/GMR/Hornby? PII Restaurant composite. The sides are from the Comet range as are the various underframe gubbins and roof fittings. The carriage required the ride height lowering and the in filling of the substantial cut-outs in the solebars.

 

 

Here's something from an earlier time! A 'Westdale' wrapper which many moons ago I regularly used to produce a respectable model. In those times, other than BSL, there was nothing else available. Then again there were cardboard cut-out ERG coaches! 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Re6/6

[Chamby]

I would add a couple of points to Tony’s comments above....

 

Whilst the average age of railway modellers has changed dramatically over the last few decades, we seem to have reached a point where a succession of new retirees is topping up our population, as the old soldiers fade away.  I don’t see a decline as yet, just fears of one based on the changed age profile.

 

Secondly, whilst I am the only railway modeller in our neighbourhood who attends a club, my postie has advised me of at least eight railway modellers just on his post round who receive items from model shops and subscribe to magazines.  The are many more silent railway modellers out there than we perhaps realise...

 

Phil

[jamie92208]

26 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I think you and Andrew are dead right, Tim,

 

I have to say I'm amused when some posters take 'exception' to this thread moving away from actual 'modelling' from time to time. As far as I know, nobody polices (is that the right word?) it, and if going off at a tangent from time to time occurs, it soon comes back to actually making things. 

 

Which brings me round to the imminent 'decline' or even demise of the hobby. In 1973, aged almost 27, I joined Wolverhampton Model Railway Club (a decision never regretted). Would you believe, I was just below the average age of the membership? Now, in 2019, at aged 72, I am just above the average age! For a variety of militating reasons, the club will cease to exist in less than two years. We've all had a great time, but all things come to an end.

 

I'm not saying that clubs are the hobby's only outlet for creativity, but the two local ones I'm involved with here, all have an increasing membership age. A few younger modellers appear, but after they leave to pursue education, careers (and women!), they do not return. 

 

By far the largest number of participants currently in the hobby are from the 'baby-boomer' generation, those born just after the War. Now, in retirement, they 'model' mainly what they remember. They are returnees to the hobby. They have the cash, the space and even the time (though the last-mentioned is running out - fast!). Many (because they didn't continue modelling throughout their adult lives?), though 'rich' in the three areas just mentioned, are skill 'poor'. Thus, they're happy to rely on the brilliant RTR/RTP offerings available now and/or get others to do their modelling for them. They've earned that 'right'. 

 

I think it's symptomatic of the current state of affairs that one sees 'huge' discounting from time to time now on some RTR items. Why? Over-production, and/or not as large a market out there for a product as was anticipated? Heljan's O2 springs to mind (now available at around £80.00 - at least £100.00 less than originally-priced!), as do Hornby's various B17s, D16s and K1s. I seem to recall Bachmann's K3s and J11s being heavily-discounted in the past (I cannot comment on locos from other Regions). Is this situation sustainable?

 

I love Andrew's description of a few 'survivalists'. I hope I'm one. Bit by bit, I'm accumulating un-built loco and stock kits, Mashima motors whenever I see them, gearboxes, wheels (I now have hundreds of drivers and carrying wheels of all sizes), plus piles of fittings/bits and pieces. I also have bottles of flux and 'miles' of various solders. I am a hoarder and stock-piler indeed! Track, I don't have much of spare at present, but we'll see.

 

Speaking with various RTR manufacturers (a few now-retired), they know the 'best years' of the hobby have now gone. The best years of the traditional RTR/RTP perhaps, but is the future the new technologies? Developed by those who are still 'young'? 

 

Will I really care? Speaking selfishly, not a jot. As alluded to, I have far more kits than I have years left to build them (in the traditional way). As long as I have electricity..................................  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I think that much the same has happened in the railway book trade.   There was a huge explosion in the supply of good prototype information in the 60's, 70,s and 80's, with the likes of Ian Allen, David and Charles and Bradford Barton.   Many of the original purchasers (Were we all member of the WHS's Railway Boo Club) have unfortunately either died or had to downsize, and the market is so flooded with second hand copies that the charity shop is often the only disposal route.  Some high quality books, such as the Wild Swan ones and the Yeadon series seem to have held some value.  Having been involved in publishing transport books in a small way for a few years (Tram related) I know that the margins that publishers work on are very small due to the huge discounts demanded by certain book chains.   I wonder if the supply of good quality reference volumes will now diminish just like the supply of some kits is also declining.

 

Jamie

[Tony Wright]

4 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I think that much the same has happened in the railway book trade.   There was a huge explosion in the supply of good prototype information in the 60's, 70,s and 80's, with the likes of Ian Allen, David and Charles and Bradford Barton.   Many of the original purchasers (Were we all member of the WHS's Railway Boo Club) have unfortunately either died or had to downsize, and the market is so flooded with second hand copies that the charity shop is often the only disposal route.  Some high quality books, such as the Wild Swan ones and the Yeadon series seem to have held some value.  Having been involved in publishing transport books in a small way for a few years (Tram related) I know that the margins that publishers work on are very small due to the huge discounts demanded by certain book chains.   I wonder if the supply of good quality reference volumes will now diminish just like the supply of some kits is also declining.

 

Jamie

Just as a footnote to books, Jamie,

 

Over the last few years (as is now known) Mo and I have found new homes for model railway equipment on behalf of bereaved families. Some of that process has involved books. I approached Robert Humm in Stamford and was (politely) told that he was no longer taking books from 'mainstream' publishers because his shelves were full. One collection included the various works of Essery and Jenkinson on MR/LMS matters (all in excellent condition), the RCTS 'Green' series on LNER locos, dozens of books by Irwell and Ian Allan and many of Yeadon's volumes. There have also been books related to the GWR by Russell and those on SR matters by Bradley and Townroe. I ended up virtually giving them away! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[BlackRat]

1 hour ago, Re6/6 said:

 

That's interesting Neil. Do you have a link?

 

A rare day in work so I'll try and add it later.

 

In a nutshell......it involved a cheap blonde wig (joke shop type or fancy dress I guess) cut into various 'lengths' and tightly rolled into a blonde sausage (!) or cigar shape.......

 

This was then dunked into pva which had been blobbed or spread on the area to be 'long grassed'.....

 

Fine soil was then sprinkled over the top.

 

Ive tried it......it works and I also used various green rattle cans to add colour. I guess you could spray the wig before cutting.

 

***** re books......local shop (Chris's Crafts) in the 'Muff has dozens of excellent books.......for pence, some have been there seemingly for ever. Does no one want them? I've told my wife to take mine to the library (there's several hundred) but seemingly even they don't necessarily want them, only anything of local interest.

Edited March 12, 2019 by BlackRat

[David Bigcheeseplant]

At the Risborough & District MRC we have the most members we have ever had in our 48 year history, with at least one new member applying for membership most months. Why are we attracting more members, maybe because we try to run workshops on DCC, tree making weathering, CAD design etc

[jwealleans]

I'll second that.  Since Ely MRC moved to their new clubrooms (with a significant subscription increase to cover the cost) and had the room to have multiple layouts up as well as regular running nights again, membership has increased to the point where there is thought of not accepting any more joiners until the clubroom is enlarged.

[Jol Wilkinson]

13 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I think that much the same has happened in the railway book trade.   There was a huge explosion in the supply of good prototype information in the 60's, 70,s and 80's, with the likes of Ian Allen, David and Charles and Bradford Barton.   Many of the original purchasers (Were we all member of the WHS's Railway Boo Club) have unfortunately either died or had to downsize, and the market is so flooded with second hand copies that the charity shop is often the only disposal route.  Some high quality books, such as the Wild Swan ones and the Yeadon series seem to have held some value.  Having been involved in publishing transport books in a small way for a few years (Tram related) I know that the margins that publishers work on are very small due to the huge discounts demanded by certain book chains.   I wonder if the supply of good quality reference volumes will now diminish just like the supply of some kits is also declining.

 

Jamie

The comparison with the book trade is interesting. I was asked to dispose of the books from the Estate of a late friend and found that most of the specialist  railway book sellers were only interested in the rarer books. To a man or woman they all said that the disposal and availability of s/h books  from enthusiast's' collections now far exceeded the demand. While new books  may be published less frequently, their is a large back catalogue available, readily available through Amazon and the specialist booksellers. It is also probably hard to get hold of new, unpublished photographs, unless for the current railway scene. However, we now have more  railway and modelling magazines on WHS and other newsagents shelves than ever.

 

While the first issue seems to support the view that the number of modellers is in decline, I think that is only partially true and the  second possibly contradicts that .

 

An increasing proportion of modellers, for a variety of reasons, are moving away from creating models that reflect the real thing, but create layouts that mirrors the contents of the RTR catalogues and reflects what is readily available through the internet. It is rather like going back to the 50s and 60s when you either modelled what Hornby and Triang produced in 4mm, or took up model making. 

 

While clubs may be in decline, model railway shows seem to be buoyant and sufficiently viable for a number of commercial concerns to get into running them. Does that indicate  that the hobby is still fairly healthy but that the club format is less important. Could that be a result of internet forums, blogs and YouTube providing the socail interaction and information that clubs once provided?  Likewise, some modellers don't find the local club their cup of hot beverage. From a fairly large group of friends and acquaintances, all without exception "model makers" (although a couple are also closet collectors) none belong to a traditional model railway club. Quite a few are however members of national model society area groups, possibly because the other members also share like views of what modelling is about. I have found that only  a relative few shows interest me, but they are not the big shows that attract the majority of customers and where the trade is largely made up of the large RTR retailers. 

 

So is the hobby in decline? I suggest none of us really know, although we can see it's culture and structure changing around us. Perhaps we don't like some of those changes, how they reflect on this hobby and what we believe is should be about.

 

Jol

[CUTLER2579]

49 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I'll second that.  Since Ely MRC moved to their new clubrooms (with a significant subscription increase to cover the cost) and had the room to have multiple layouts up as well as regular running nights again, membership has increased to the point where there is thought of not accepting any more joiners until the clubroom is enlarged.

 

What about Electricians the Premier trade.  

[jwealleans]

is that a polite way of saying 'The oldest profession'?

[Anglian]

I wonder if many hobbies that involve more than clicking away at a computer or games console are in decline. My local angling club has seen its membership drop to just one third of its peak, 25 years ago. The secretary says it is no more complex than the fact that there are nearly no junior members joining and the old guard is slowly withering away. 

However, I was surprised last time I was in one of my local pubs. Talk amongst the regulars happened to turn towards steam engines and young lads were showing me images of the steam trains they had recently seen on visits to heritage railways. These chaps were 20 – 21 years old. I'd be surprised if any of them were model making but they may well do in the future.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Anglian

[St Enodoc]

On 11/03/2019 at 16:37, St Enodoc said:

Clive, I do understand your situation but there is a world of difference between reading something that is not perfect grammatically and reading something that is written so poorly that it is ambiguous or, worse, just can't be understood.

 

I have no problem with the former but I have a big problem with the latter. For example, there's an information sign at Southern Cross station in Melbourne which, to me, can be read in at least two ways but in fact is probably intended to mean something else altogether. Not good if you are relying on it to know when your train departs (or doesn't). I'll check the exact words later this week and post them here, if Tony doesn't mind, so we can have a bit of fun.

OK, here goes. First, a bit of context - there are two main stations in Melbourne - Southern Cross (formerly Spencer Street) and Flinders Street. The following notice is at Southern Cross:

 

"Night Train Services

 

Night Train Services only depart from Flinders Street on Friday and Saturday nights from 1 am"

 

Now, to me this could be read as meaning:

 

"Night train services depart every night from Southern Cross, and also from Flinders Street on Friday and Saturday nights, from 1 am"

 

or

 

"Night Train services only run on Friday and Saturday nights from 1 am and only depart from Flinders Street"

 

My personal view is that it it is intended to mean neither of these, but rather:

 

"On Friday and Saturday nights from 1 am, night train services only depart from Flinders Street"

 

I've no way of telling (other than to consult the detailed timetable, which I don't plan to do because I don't need to use night trains in Melbourne at all).

 

Over to the Brains Trust.