Wright writes.....

[micknich2003]

Possibly the best source of Point Rodding information, theory and detail was published in the Great Western Railway Journal No89, Winter 2014. There are fifteen well illustrated pages with both drawings, photo's and descriptive text.

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

A copy ordered here too. 

 

Has anyone tried the DCC Concepts working point rodding?  I haven’t seen it ‘in the flesh’ yet, but am anticipating that it might (of necessity) be somewhat over scale.  Though the prospect of having additional things move when a turnout is thrown does appeal... the existing point motor throw could be used to activate the rodding from the ‘wrong end’, rather than having the additional complexity of working rodding originating from the box.

It's a lot nearer to scale than the Wills kits (which isn't difficult of course) and it looks pretty good but depending on your track layout it could work out as rather pricey.  It has the advantage that it can be fully functional, or dummy functional (Note*), or totally dummy.   But it looked to me like an awful fiddle to put together although it has obviously been very carefully designed to imitate the real thing as closely as mass production methods and nimble Chinese toolmaking will allow.  

 

Not * - 'dummy functional' it that you can arrange it so that it is driven by the movement of the point 'stretcher bar' so it moves while the point is worked by a hidden point motor.   Fully functional of course means you actually use it to drive the point.  If you're interested the DCC Concepts exhibition stand has examples of it set up so worth looking out for if you're able to venture across the border into England and get to the right kind of show.

[Tony Wright]

One of the huge advantages of working with friends on various projects is that others can do the jobs I'm not that good at (and there are many of them!). 

 

Though I can paint my own locos, and still do, top-quality lining is beyond my abilities, reliant, as I am, on transfer lining. 

 

For a customer, that's not good enough. 

 

 

But Geoff Haynes' painting, lining and weathering is. This is the SE Finecast K3 I've recently built for a friend, now painted by Geoff.

 

 

 

Before any loco I've built is delivered, it's thoroughly tested first, and here Haymarket's big 2-6-0 heads a 50-wagon express goods on Little Bytham. It runs really well, and soon I've got to run the risk of mucking up this good performance by installing a DCC chip! There's lots of space inside, but it means un-soldering wires and soldering some more in - a loathsome job!

 

I've just run through some back-of-fag-packet calculations as to how much this loco will have cost my friend. At mates' rates for my build (less than half what I usually charge), with the cost of all the bits and the price of Geoff's painting, it'll come out at over £700.00. What's a Bachmann K3 cost? Of course, you can't get a RH drive K3 from Bachmann, nor one with the right-sized driving wheels, but it's a lot less. How about seven Bachmann K3s for the same price? I suppose it comes down to what one wants. 

 

 

And a customer of Geoff's wants a GWR Class 517 in EM Gauge. I'm sub-contracted to build this from an Alan Gibson kit. Great stuff this bartering! 

 

 

[Theakerr]

A while back I said I would post my observations on building the DJH 00 LNER A2 kit (#33).  They follow.  I do hope no-one takes this as a criticism of the kit.  It is simply my personal observations in the hope that others may benefit.

 

1.    The white metal tender interior casting was about 1.5mm wider than the space it fits into.  Had to be sanded down

2.    The supports for the tender casting when placed at right angles to the casting sides sat on the solder fillet inside the etched brass sides causing the casting to sit high.  I tilted them inwards in order to keep all edges straight.

3.    The handrails knob behind each smoke deflectors has to be ground down otherwise the smoke deflectors will not sit at the correct angle

4.    If doing again, I would fit the smoke deflectors after painting.  It is going to be a right pain to paint behind them. 

5.    The etched piston slide bars are a right and left but the fret contains two of the same side based on the etch marks.  Managed to break one when reversing fold but was able to solder it together

6.    Do not cut off the piston rod at what appears to be the casting sprue nub.  If you do the piston rod will be too short and drop out of its housing when the crosshead is at its maximum extension.  I was so lucky there.  

7.    My biggest problem was with the loco brakes.  All the locos I have built to date have had brake shoes that lined up roughly with the wheel tread centre, so this it how I thought they should be.  As a result I was bending the hangers in the wrong place, managed to break at least two (the marks are not at all clear).  On this kit the shoes line up with the outside edge of the wheel and pretty well have to in order to prevent a short.

8.    After numerous attempts followed by pop-outs I gave up on soldering the last handrail knob into the boiler because the boiler section is thick and I just couldn’t get full penetration.  Super glue works

9.    The cab interior just does not work as described. I will kit bash it to make it work when all the painting is done.  I have also left the cab roof off so that I can finish the interior later

10.  The front vacuum brake pipe is way to short.  Fabricated one from my parts box. 

11.  Just as Tony warned in the video, I managed to pop off the chimney when opening up the holes. However, and this might have changed on later kits, I don’t see how the holes can be opened to their full size.  The chimney opening is significantly larger than the chimney-locating lug so even with good solder penetration I was cleaning out non-soldered material.  I used a combination of the soldering the chimney-locating stub remnants to the boiler and an industrial two-part epoxy (24 hour set) to re-attach the chimney. Finally, I opened up the holes but tapered them inwards so as to leave material attached to the boiler

12.  The reversing rod lever appears to be attached to both the body and the chassis and will prevent separation for painting.  Still working on a solution.

13.  I gave up on trying to fasten the hand wheels to the lubricators cut off the stub and superglued them directly to the dispenser. 

14.  Finally, it is a tricky kit and I couldn’t have built what is now a beautiful smooth running loco without Tony’s simply excellent video.   Also I couldn’t have built it without a set of micro-reamers

[Theakerr]

With all the talk about point rodding i am getting round to installing some signal wire posts and wire.  Looking at the pictures I can find it would appear that the old LNER early ER wooden posts are 20 to 24' above the sinter drain section.  Can anyone confirm said dimension.  Thanks

[dibateg]

Rodding makes so much difference to a layout, the lads started it on Heyside, but no one was keen to make up all the cranks and connections. So I ended up volunteering to do it! I found it quite therapeutic really... C&L and Exactoscale components and miles of square bar. Facing points locks in evidence here on the passenger carrying lines.

 

 

A nice long run here crossing baseboard joins and with compensators. Luckily we had some railway chaps on the team that knew how it should all work and some useful documentation which helped with placing of compensators etc.

Tony

Edited April 9, 2019 by dibateg
correction to supplier

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Theakerr said:

A while back I said I would post my observations on building the DJH 00 LNER A2 kit (#33).  They follow.  I do hope no-one takes this as a criticism of the kit.  It is simply my personal observations in the hope that others may benefit.

 

1.    The white metal tender interior casting was about 1.5mm wider than the space it fits into.  Had to be sanded down

2.    The supports for the tender casting when placed at right angles to the casting sides sat on the solder fillet inside the etched brass sides causing the casting to sit high.  I tilted them inwards in order to keep all edges straight.

3.    The handrails knob behind each smoke deflectors has to be ground down otherwise the smoke deflectors will not sit at the correct angle

4.    If doing again, I would fit the smoke deflectors after painting.  It is going to be a right pain to paint behind them. 

5.    The etched piston slide bars are a right and left but the fret contains two of the same side based on the etch marks.  Managed to break one when reversing fold but was able to solder it together

6.    Do not cut off the piston rod at what appears to be the casting sprue nub.  If you do the piston rod will be too short and drop out of its housing when the crosshead is at its maximum extension.  I was so lucky there.  

7.    My biggest problem was with the loco brakes.  All the locos I have built to date have had brake shoes that lined up roughly with the wheel tread centre, so this it how I thought they should be.  As a result I was bending the hangers in the wrong place, managed to break at least two (the marks are not at all clear).  On this kit the shoes line up with the outside edge of the wheel and pretty well have to in order to prevent a short.

8.    After numerous attempts followed by pop-outs I gave up on soldering the last handrail knob into the boiler because the boiler section is thick and I just couldn’t get full penetration.  Super glue works

9.    The cab interior just does not work as described. I will kit bash it to make it work when all the painting is done.  I have also left the cab roof off so that I can finish the interior later

10.  The front vacuum brake pipe is way to short.  Fabricated one from my parts box. 

11.  Just as Tony warned in the video, I managed to pop off the chimney when opening up the holes. However, and this might have changed on later kits, I don’t see how the holes can be opened to their full size.  The chimney opening is significantly larger than the chimney-locating lug so even with good solder penetration I was cleaning out non-soldered material.  I used a combination of the soldering the chimney-locating stub remnants to the boiler and an industrial two-part epoxy (24 hour set) to re-attach the chimney. Finally, I opened up the holes but tapered them inwards so as to leave material attached to the boiler

12.  The reversing rod lever appears to be attached to both the body and the chassis and will prevent separation for painting.  Still working on a solution.

13.  I gave up on trying to fasten the hand wheels to the lubricators cut off the stub and superglued them directly to the dispenser. 

14.  Finally, it is a tricky kit and I couldn’t have built what is now a beautiful smooth running loco without Tony’s simply excellent video.   Also I couldn’t have built it without a set of micro-reamers

Valid points indeed,

 

I'm glad you've got your loco running beautifully-smoothly. 

 

The tender interior just needs squeezing together where it's too wide in the vicinity of the coal space.

I never use the supports for the tender interior.

I don't fit handrail pillars behind the deflectors for the reasons mentioned. 

Loco brakes? Mine are probably fudged.

Have you tried soldering the handrail pillars from the OUTSIDE? I assume you've pre-tinned the ends of the pillars. Just put a small pellet of low-melt on the end of the iron, then flood the base of the pillar with flux and introduce the iron underneath the pillar, just where it touches the boiler on the outside. No popping out, and you can see what you're doing. 

I always substitute lost wax or wire-wound vacuum standpipes. 

I only attach the reversing lever to the body.

 

I hope these comments help.

 

Meanwhile, the three DJH A2s I've built which run on Little Bytham.

 

 

Painted by Geoff Haynes.

 

 

 

Became TUDOR MINSTREL after Ian Rathbone painted it. 

 

 

 

60539 BRONZINO; the one on the DVD, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

 

TWO 60539s!. Mine on the left, and Eric Kidd's modified Bachmann one on the right.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

41 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Rodding makes so much difference to a layout, the lads started it on Heyside, but no one was keen to make up all the cranks and connections. So I ended up volunteering to do it! I found it quite therapeutic really... MSE components and miles of square bar. Facing points locks in evidence here on the passenger carrying lines.

 

 

A nice long run here crossing baseboard joins and with compensators. Luckily we had some railway chaps on the team that knew how it should all work and some useful documentation which helped with placing of compensators etc.

Tony

This is incredibly realistic, Tony. 

[t-b-g]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Some more images from yesterday's meeting of the 2mm Scale Association (apologies for calling it 'Finescale', though that's what it is). 

 

 

Just look at that beautiful point rodding - yes, in 2mm Scale! 

 

 

 

 

Three views of Laurie Adams' under-construction Yeovil Town. It's mostly his work (and that tiny tractor just peeping out from behind the goods shed actually works!), and Tony Gee is building the goods shed, and Jerry Clifford built the Pannier. 

 

Ian Smeeton is building a model of Paiseley St. James.

 

 

 

Here are two views of his impressive trackwork for it.

 

I think what most impressed me yesterday was the 'can do' attitude of the group. There is great self-reliance, yet the pragmatism to 'exploit' what the trade might offer and alter it accordingly, as well as pooling skills and resources. These are not 'box-openers' nor commissioners, but 'real' modellers in my book. It was a privilege to be in their company, and I can't have upset anyone because I've been invited back!  

 

 

 

I am glad you enjoyed the visit and I was sorry not to be here but family matters forced my hand and caused a necessary trip to Scalefour North to be changed to the Sunday.

 

For those who want a look at the shunting tractor in action, Laurie has put a video on Youtube.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by t-b-g
To correct poor language use!

[TrevorP1]

9 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

Possibly the best source of Point Rodding information, theory and detail was published in the Great Western Railway Journal No89, Winter 2014. There are fifteen well illustrated pages with both drawings, photo's and descriptive text.

 

Thanks for the tip - duly ordered!

[micknich2003]

Trevor, you won't be disappointed, although the details are GWRly, the principles are the same world wide

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I am glad you enjoyed the visit and I was sorry not to be here but family matters forced my hand and caused a necessary trip to Scalefour North to be changed to the Sunday.

 

For those who want a look at the shunting tractor in action, Laurie has put a video on Youtube.

 

 

That is just stunning.

[StephenB]

It highlights what I’ve always believed and that is that model shunting takes as long as prototype shunting.

 

Stephen

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, StephenB said:

It highlights what I’ve always believed and that is that model shunting takes as long as prototype shunting.

 

Stephen

Interesting.

 

Speaking with (retired) professional railwaymen who've been involved in actual shunting, they tell me that when they look at shunting moves on model railways, the action is invariably too slow. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

One last shot of the point rodding progress on LB, because it's definitely on the back-burner for now.

 

 

Haymarket's 60024 KINGFISHER races south through LB on the Up 'Elizabethan'. 

 

The point rodding is a detail certainly worth incorporating into a layout, though, with tight-perspective shots like this, it does highlight how difficult it is to get it straight! 

[The Stationmaster]

Tackling a GW engine Mr W?  And not just any GW engine but a 517 - one of those classes where over the years there were probably very few, if any, engines which were the same as each other in every detail; true bravery and deep respect.

 

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Interesting.

 

Speaking with (retired) professional railwaymen who've been involved in actual shunting, they tell me that when they look at shunting moves on model railways, the action is invariably too slow. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Most real freight shunting is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to replicate in model form for a wide variety of reasons.  But generally it boils down to the difficulty of accurately replicating loose shunting partially due to the type of couplings which have to be used on a model but more importantly the lack of mass in wagons and the total inability to brake them to stand after they have been given a good shove.  Double shunting (i.e.more than one cut is set loose, with each for different siding, in a single propelling movement) is even more difficult and fly shunting (where the wagons are drawn instead of propelled) must be totally impossible.

 

Without all the quick ways of doing the job inherent in loose and double shunting shunting on a model railway will invariably be slower  because the loco has to make far more movements and exactly spot each cut for detaching.

[Clem]

16 hours ago, t-b-g said:

For those who want a look at the shunting tractor in action, Laurie has put a video on Youtube.

This is simply mesmerising. If I had that on my layout, I'd have trouble getting anything else done, though!   :-)  

[Laurie2mil]

Thank you for the kind comments about the tractor.  Yes - the output has slowed since it has been reasonably functional!

 

Laurie Adams

[Barry Ten]

Yes, that tractor is quite remarkable. 

 

When I look at what is achievable in 2mm (allowing for the skill of the creators) I sometimes fantasise about disposing of all my 4mm stuff and just jumping wholeheartedly into the smaller scale. I'm sure there would be a steep learning curve but the possibilities seem so attractive in terms of creating a spacious and realistic effect in a reasonable space. Then I look at my 4mm collection and think of the hours invested in loco and coach construction (not to mention buildings and so on) and I don't think I could make the emotional break with it all.

[Barry Ten]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Tackling a GW engine Mr W?  And not just any GW engine but a 517 - one of those classes where over the years there were probably very few, if any, engines which were the same as each other in every detail; true bravery and deep respect.

 

Most real freight shunting is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to replicate in model form for a wide variety of reasons.  But generally it boils down to the difficulty of accurately replicating loose shunting partially due to the type of couplings which have to be used on a model but more importantly the lack of mass in wagons and the total inability to brake them to stand after they have been given a good shove.  Double shunting (i.e.more than one cut is set loose, with each for different siding, in a single propelling movement) is even more difficult and fly shunting (where the wagons are drawn instead of propelled) must be totally impossible.

 

Without all the quick ways of doing the job inherent in loose and double shunting shunting on a model railway will invariably be slower  because the loco has to make far more movements and exactly spot each cut for detaching.

 

I'm going to respectfully suggest that "how shunting was done" is one of those topics, like signalling, that former railway men will never quite agree on. Wasn't there a discussion about shunting speeds and methods in the letters pages of one of the prototype historical railway magazines, in which one person stated his recollections, another then weighed-in with "that might be how they did it in region X, but that wasn't how we did it..." another than said "you might have done it quickly, we took our time" etc and so on.  Similarly, any authoritative article on signalling will then have another ex-signalman writing in with contradictions and exceptions. That's my perception, anyway!

[great central]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I'm going to respectfully suggest that "how shunting was done" is one of those topics, like signalling, that former railway men will never quite agree on. Wasn't there a discussion about shunting speeds and methods in the letters pages of one of the prototype historical railway magazines, in which one person stated his recollections, another then weighed-in with "that might be how they did it in region X, but that wasn't how we did it..." another than said "you might have done it quickly, we took our time" etc and so on.  Similarly, any authoritative article on signalling will then have another ex-signalman writing in with contradictions and exceptions. That's my perception, anyway!

 

 

I'm sure that shunting was carried out in the same way a lot of work tasks in any field are carried out, with one eye on what comes next!

If there's more to be done then no incentive to hurry, perhaps it can even be spun out a bit to leave something for the next shift:-)

On the other hand if it's break or home time coming up get it done ASAP!!

[Manxcat]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Though I can paint my own locos, and still do, top-quality lining is beyond my abilities, reliant, as I am, on transfer lining. 

 

For a customer, that's not good enough. 

 

 

But Geoff Haynes' painting, lining and weathering is. This is the SE Finecast K3 I've recently built for a friend, now painted by Geoff.

 

 

 

 

 

Tony, I am seriously impressed by the Wright / Haynes skills partnership which has resulted in this exceptional loco.

 

Archie

[Atso]

While not in the same league as Mr Haynes regarding the quality of the paint job, below is an almost complete N gauge GWR County that I've been building for a customer. A few more bits to fit and then I can put a coat of matt varnish down to finish it off.

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Tackling a GW engine Mr W?  And not just any GW engine but a 517 - one of those classes where over the years there were probably very few, if any, engines which were the same as each other in every detail; true bravery and deep respect.

 

Most real freight shunting is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to replicate in model form for a wide variety of reasons.  But generally it boils down to the difficulty of accurately replicating loose shunting partially due to the type of couplings which have to be used on a model but more importantly the lack of mass in wagons and the total inability to brake them to stand after they have been given a good shove.  Double shunting (i.e.more than one cut is set loose, with each for different siding, in a single propelling movement) is even more difficult and fly shunting (where the wagons are drawn instead of propelled) must be totally impossible.

 

Without all the quick ways of doing the job inherent in loose and double shunting shunting on a model railway will invariably be slower  because the loco has to make far more movements and exactly spot each cut for detaching.

Thanks Mike,

 

I must have built about 30+ GWR locos in my time, but never a 517 Class. I've been given lots of prototype information, so I hope I get it right. At least there's no outside valve gear to make-up.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Manxcat said:

Tony, I am seriously impressed by the Wright / Haynes skills partnership which has resulted in this exceptional loco.

 

Archie

Thanks Archie,

 

I'm sure you'll be even more happy when you see it in the flesh. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.