Wright writes.....

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I should have perhaps mentioned that I was privileged to be a judge on the occasion mentioned. And, I was invited to express my views. 

 

Therefore, discretion should have been the better part of valour, being a judge doesn't invest you with special powers. I just think that gentle encouragement or a an inward knowing shrug of the shoulders and raised eyebrows is sometimes enough.

 

Mike.

PS. This is not a personal attack on Tony, despite what some may read into it!

[Tony Wright]

5 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Therefore, discretion should have been the better part of valour, being a judge doesn't invest you with special powers. I just think that gentle encouragement or a an inward knowing shrug of the shoulders and raised eyebrows is sometimes enough.

 

Mike.

PS. This is not a personal attack on Tony, despite what some may read into it!

With the greatest of respect, Mike, 

 

Where have I implied that being a judge 'invests' me with special powers? 

 

I was asked why I hadn't considered the layout in question as being worthy of 'winning', and (with a shrug of my shoulders!) explained my reasoning. 

 

Anyway, never having been blessed with valour, I thought I was being discreet. 

 

I certainly don't take what you're saying as a 'personal attack', though I think continuing with this correspondence is futile.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Bernard Lamb]

Quote

 

A few years ago I went to a local show.

There was a late period East German layout among the exhibits.

I was walking round with a well known expert modeller, he has been known to post on the forum.

He introduced me to the people running the layout and told them that I was a regular visitor to the area at the time depicted in the model.

They asked me for my comments.

I said it was pretty authentic if a bit too well maintained and a couple of coaches were probably rather too modern for a small branch line.

There was way too great a variety of stock, but I agreed with the operators that was acceptable to show the public what stock was typical, rather than trying to run an accurate service.

They were very happy that I had taken the time to have a close look at their work and offer an informed opinion.

I have also come across the odd well known UK layout where I have observed what I feel to be wrong doings and on checking when I get home find that my hunch is correct.

I accept that as a hobby people can do what they like, but if you exhibit your work to the paying public then I feel certain standards should be met.

Bernard

[Dave Hunt]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Right now, because of responses such as yours, I'm not far off saying 'That's it!' I'll just build what I want, work with like-minded friends, enjoy my hobby without offending anyone and actually achieve a lot more on a personal modelling level.

 

Tony. 

 

 

Tony,

 

For what it's worth I'm with you 100% on this topic and if some people can't appreciate what you are trying to achieve with your observations I think it is their loss, not yours. Even though I model in a different scale/standard from you with a different emphasis on the aspects of railways that I try to portray, I find your work and observations interesting at least and often inspirational and I admire your efforts to encourage others and help them (and here I include myself) to reach a better standard of modelling. To my way of thinking, anyone to whom you offer your constructive criticism would, if they are interested in improving/advancing/call it what you will their modelling, take on board what you say to their advantage without being upset by what you offer. Alternatively, if someone isn't interested in improving/advancing etc. but can appreciate the spirit in which you offer your criticism, they will metaphorically (or physically I suppose) shrug their shoulders and get on with following their own path. What they won't do if they are reasonable and intelligent people is take umbrage when someone genuinely tries to help. I suppose that what I am trying to convey is that I'm convinced that what you say and write is not only worthwhile but is, in the great scheme of things, to the overall advantage of this hobby of ours. Should you become so discouraged by the comments of those whose understanding of your intentions is wide of the mark that you give up what you try to achieve here, it would be a severe loss to the majority and I hope that you will never take that step.

 

Dave       

[NHY 581]

I do exhibit my layouts. 

 

I make no bones about how basic my approach is. 

 

I use ready to run stock, Peco track, ready to plant buildings and basic scenery. 

The electrics are basic with manual points and tension lock couplings. 

 

I hope my layouts show what can be achieved with very basic materials and present what is possible. 

 

Woodenhead was very kind in his comments in an earlier post regarding my layouts which are very hands on. 

 

Last weekend I exhibited for two days at the Nailsea show. Only one very loud comment made by someone who walked straight past proclaiming loudly to his chum about too much 'hand of god' as I was uncoupling a wagon or two. 

 

Carry on I say, you are missing my point. 

 

With no hi jack intended, an image of my train set. 

 

Rob. 

[mark axlecounter]

It's people like my self who show there stock or layouts at shows who tried to capture the era they model in, but I never saw the 1960's so most of my information is from books, internet and people who was around in the 60's.

I went to Bristol show last year with a friends layout but ran my stock on it. I had an inspection saloon I made and weathered it running on the layout and Tony came up to me and said " the cleaner would of had been given his cards for letting the saloon out in that condition" , so I thanked Tony for his advise and now it has been cleaned up to represent a clean inspection saloon. And how to apply replica railways lining on it to.

I always appreciate comments and respect the information given to me, and if I can improve it or try to get it right, We do need people to steer us in the right direction. 

 

My English is terrible but I try.

 

Mark   

  

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

I do exhibit my layouts. 

 

I make no bones about how basic my approach is. 

 

I use ready to run stock, Peco track, ready to plant buildings and basic scenery. 

The electrics are basic with manual points and tension lock couplings. 

 

I hope my layouts show what can be achieved with very basic materials and present what is possible. 

 

Woodenhead was very kind in his comments in an earlier post regarding my layouts which are very hands on. 

 

Last weekend I exhibited for two days at the Nailsea show. Only one very loud comment made by someone who walked straight past proclaiming loudly to his chum about too much 'hand of god' as I was uncoupling a wagon or two. 

 

Carry on I say, you are missing my point. 

 

With no hi jack intended, an image of my train set. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Evening Rob,

It's certainly a lovely train set. Given the present conversation, I feel terrible about pointing out that the wagon in the photo is not M254661, it is actually a RCH PO wagon. Not to worry though, I can confirm that the locomotive is not numbered as a black five. My apologies.

[NHY 581]

5 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Rob,

It's certainly a lovely train set. Given the present conversation, I feel terrible about pointing out that the wagon in the photo is not M254661, it is actually a RCH PO wagon. Not to worry though, I can confirm that the locomotive is not numbered as a black five. My apologies.

Morning Headstock. 

 

Thank you but I suppose a comment such as yours was  inevitable. I chose to pop my head over the parapet and post a photo here.  

 

Please, do not feel terrible or feel the need to apologise.

 

As per my original post, I use RTR stock so as in this case, if Bachmann  chose to number this wagon as they did, so be it. I am not worried. To me it is a five plank wagon that looks the part and that's were it ends. 

 

Spot on though  regards the loco. Certainly not a black five.........and I must get on and add the bars protecting the rear windows. Hornby's error and the only one of the three Radials so fitted, probably as it had larger rear windows than the other two. 

 

What I am saying is there are faults in most things which anyone with knowledge of a particular subject can highlight. 

I choose not to because the enjoyment that the modelling gives the modeller is far more important than any observations made. 

 

I am not a skilled modeller. My modelling is done with a pretty broad brush and as stated, hopefully demonstrates what can be done with 'out of the box' items with little or no mods other than a spot of weathering. I go for an overall look which has to satisfy me above all else. 

 

Let's not forget that everyone brings something to the table regardless of their level of knowledge or skill.

 

On the subject of shows, I consider being asked to exhibit my layouts to be a great privilege. They provide an opportunity to have a good chat about modelling. I do not hide behind my layouts but stand in front and probably spend more time chatting about the layout than operating. I enjoy having  a laugh with visitors and that really sums up my approach to all of this. I do this to relax. The serious part of the brain is kept for work. 

 

Enjoy the modelling. Keep yourself happy first and if others enjoy your efforts then that is a bonus........

 

A final image then..

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Chamby]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

*snip*

 

A final image then..

 

Rob. 

 

 

Absolutely brilliant... a facepalm from the driver as he realises he forgot to put lamps on, and his locomotive still carries those awful tension-lock couplings.

 

Sometimes it is good to not take ourselves too seriously!

 

Some very nice modelling skills in evidence, for sure.

 

Phil

Edited April 12, 2019 by Chamby
Edited to add: it constantly amazes me how different people see different things in a photograph...

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Morning Headstock. 

 

Thank you but I suppose a comment such as yours was  inevitable. I chose to pop my head over the parapet and post a photo here.  

 

Please, do not feel terrible or feel the need to apologise.

 

As per my original post, I use RTR stock so as in this case, if Bachmann  chose to number this wagon as they did, so be it. I am not worried. To me it is a five plank wagon that looks the part and that's were it ends. 

 

Spot on though  regards the loco. Certainly not a black five.........and I must get on and add the bars protecting the rear windows. Hornby's error and the only one of the three Radials so fitted, probably as it had larger rear windows than the other two. 

 

What I am saying is there are faults in most things which anyone with knowledge of a particular subject can highlight. 

I choose not to because the enjoyment that the modelling gives the modeller is far more important than any observations made. 

 

I am not a skilled modeller. My modelling is done with a pretty broad brush and as stated, hopefully demonstrates what can be done with 'out of the box' items with little or no mods other than a spot of weathering. I go for an overall look which has to satisfy me above all else. 

 

Let's not forget that everyone brings something to the table regardless of their level of knowledge or skill.

 

On the subject of shows, I consider being asked to exhibit my layouts to be a great privilege. They provide an opportunity to have a good chat about modelling. I do not hide behind my layouts but stand in front and probably spend more time chatting about the layout than operating. I enjoy having  a laugh with visitors and that really sums up my approach to all of this. I do this to relax. The serious part of the brain is kept for work. 

 

Enjoy the modelling. Keep yourself happy first and if others enjoy your efforts then that is a bonus........

 

A final image then..

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

Good morning Rob,

 

I was going to say what Phil (Chamby) has posted, but he beat me to it.

 

This is wonderful work, fully in keeping with all I've tried to promulgate recently. It's based on prototype observation, self-reliance, a desire to produce something personal and it's beautifully-observed, natural and very realistic. You've exploited what the RTR boys have provided and personalised and improved it in a unique way. My heartiest congratulations! Many thanks for posting. 

 

What started off as a rather glum day, with thoughts of images of layouts filled with unaltered clones, revealing nothing more than purchasing-power (all defended with the zeal of the righteous!) has turned into one of optimism and a desire to carry on making things for myself (though I have Hornby's latest 'Lord Nelson' to photograph and review today).

 

Just one thing. Why not chuck away those tension-locks on the locos? A simple wire loop, painted black, will engage just as well with the T-Ls on the stock. It's discreet, and your locos will look so much better when running-round stock or leading a train. 

 

Thanks once again.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clive Mortimore]

9 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Rob,

 

I was going to say what Phil (Chamby) has posted, but he beat me to it.

 

This is wonderful work, fully in keeping with all I've tried to promulgate recently. It's based on prototype observation, self-reliance, a desire to produce something personal and it's beautifully-observed, natural and very realistic. You've exploited what the RTR boys have provided and personalised and improved it in a unique way. My heartiest congratulations! Many thanks for posting. 

 

What started off as a rather glum day, with thoughts of images of layouts filled with unaltered clones, revealing nothing more than purchasing-power (all defended with the zeal of the righteous!) has turned into one of optimism and a desire to carry on making things for myself (though I have Hornby's latest 'Lord Nelson' to photograph and review today).

 

Just one thing. Why not chuck away those tension-locks on the locos? A simple wire loop, painted black, will engage just as well with the T-Ls on the stock. It's discreet, and your locos will look so much better when running-round stock or leading a train. 

 

Thanks once again.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony and Rob

 

Tony has said the same thing to me many times, one day it will happen, along with real coal (I have some now), scratchbuilt loco crews, dirtying and lamps. Tony also remarked about the platforms being on the short side for the number in the station. I took this remark on board and had a think about it. It would have been nice to have another 3 or 4 feet to get longer trains in the station but the room size dictated the train, platform and storage road length. As part of engaging my brain cells was the conclusion that from an operating  point of view the extra 3 or 4 feet wouldn't change anything, apart from a slightly longer travel time before the train arriving reached the buffer stops. All other movements would be the same, so I am achieving what I would like.

 

Some photos from last nights enjoyable running session.....it was only a year ago I got my first train running on Sheffield Exchange.

 

Back to locos and their crews. My layout is a terminus station, I always find with diesels drivers in both cabs on all locos wrong (before any says it could be a guard in the back cab, that was post 1968 and freight trains only). The same with DMUs, and it looks even sillier with drivers in the cabs of two units coupled together looking at each other. Which leads me on to Tension Locks, they work and I intend to keep them on the ends of all my DMUs so I can arrange them in multiple as I wish.

 

The perfect layout is the one that the owner enjoys operating and modelling, I am on the road to having my perfect layout.

[thegreenhowards]

Tony,

 

I’ve been thinking carefully about how to reply to this because I’m caught in a dilemma. I cannot argue with your reasoning that if one is exhibiting, it ought to be right.....however, I think this is a case where the best can be the enemy of the good.

 

Let me explain. Everyone has a limited amount of time for modelling. For some it’s a lot more than others, but railway modelling is very time consuming and choices have to be made. At an exhibition I would rather see large layouts of the LB, LSGC, Grantham, Liverpool Lime Street type rather than BLTs. If a limited amount of time is to be spent, it’s likely that the large layout will be less detailed than the BLT. But I know I’d rather see an ‘impressionist’ large layout than a perfectly finished BLT. Obviously, if a team has the time then a perfect large layout is better still, but let’s not put people off large layouts by imposing the highest standards on all exhibited layouts.

 

As for using RTR out of the box, I’m totally in agreement with you. I go mainly to see the trains, and the layout is just a stage, (albeit a time consuming and often exquisite one). So I want to see prototypical formations and realistic looking stock. I’m happy for much of it to be modified RTR provided the work has gone into creating  accurate formations.

 

I think your kind of constructive criticism is very helpful and ought to be welcomed by any modeller. E.g. did you know that that A4 has the wrong kind of tender, or the use of lower case on the signal box. I have been on the receiving end of several of your ‘you clot’ moments, and I have found them useful, if slightly frustrating at the time. Criticism, such as you don’t have any point rodding, or your signals don’t work would be less appreciated, as presumably the exhibitor knows that! It would be fair, of course, to say in justification of a judging decision.

 

One area where I disagree, as you know, is tension locks. Yes, they’re ugly, but so is every other coupling system. If someone invents a radio controlled miniature shunter who runs around the layout coupling and uncoupling scale couplings, then I’ll convert. Until then, everything is a compromise and tension locks work. I’ll hide them where I can (e.g. remove from the front of tender locos, use corridor connectors to cover them up, occasionally replace with a wire loop on tank engines, use 3 links in the middle of fixed formation goods), but I’m not going to waste ages on changing over to another system which is only marginally less of a compromise.

 

All the best and keep on driving standards up.

 

Andy

 

[MarkC]

Mmm - real coal. I am under strict orders from SWMBO not to pick any more up from the beach when we take the dogs there, until I have used up my existing stocks. (The Durham coast is great for sea coal deposits).

 

Mind you, a couple of my models have coal which I picked up whilst wandering along a beach at Punta Arenas, Chile, when I was there once waiting for my ship to come in, as it were...

[Barry Ten]

3 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

On the subject of shows, I consider being asked to exhibit my layouts to be a great privilege. They provide an opportunity to have a good chat about modelling. I do not hide behind my layouts but stand in front and probably spend more time chatting about the layout than operating. I enjoy having  a laugh with visitors and that really sums up my approach to all of this. I do this to relax. The serious part of the brain is kept for work. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rob (NHY 581)'s layouts are always very neatly made and well presented too, something you wouldn't be able to tell from those close-in shots. He's one of the Cardiff Minimalists (I've just made that up) - a bit like the Scottish Colourists only they work in 3-d scenery and track rather than paint.

[Headstock]

4 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

Morning Headstock. 

 

Thank you but I suppose a comment such as yours was  inevitable. I chose to pop my head over the parapet and post a photo here.  

 

Please, do not feel terrible or feel the need to apologise.

 

As per my original post, I use RTR stock so as in this case, if Bachmann  chose to number this wagon as they did, so be it. I am not worried. To me it is a five plank wagon that looks the part and that's were it ends. 

 

Spot on though  regards the loco. Certainly not a black five.........and I must get on and add the bars protecting the rear windows. Hornby's error and the only one of the three Radials so fitted, probably as it had larger rear windows than the other two. 

 

What I am saying is there are faults in most things which anyone with knowledge of a particular subject can highlight. 

I choose not to because the enjoyment that the modelling gives the modeller is far more important than any observations made. 

 

I am not a skilled modeller. My modelling is done with a pretty broad brush and as stated, hopefully demonstrates what can be done with 'out of the box' items with little or no mods other than a spot of weathering. I go for an overall look which has to satisfy me above all else. 

 

Let's not forget that everyone brings something to the table regardless of their level of knowledge or skill.

 

On the subject of shows, I consider being asked to exhibit my layouts to be a great privilege. They provide an opportunity to have a good chat about modelling. I do not hide behind my layouts but stand in front and probably spend more time chatting about the layout than operating. I enjoy having  a laugh with visitors and that really sums up my approach to all of this. I do this to relax. The serious part of the brain is kept for work. 

 

Enjoy the modelling. Keep yourself happy first and if others enjoy your efforts then that is a bonus........

 

A final image then..

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

 

Watch out Rob,

 

if you start adding grills to the rear windows on your black five, it's a slippery slope. Before you relize it, you will be renumbering your wagon, replacing your couplings, adding lamps and boring yourself to death making point roding.

[t-b-g]

48 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony and Rob

 

Tony has said the same thing to me many times, one day it will happen, along with real coal (I have some now), scratchbuilt loco crews, dirtying and lamps. Tony also remarked about the platforms being on the short side for the number in the station. I took this remark on board and had a think about it. It would have been nice to have another 3 or 4 feet to get longer trains in the station but the room size dictated the train, platform and storage road length. As part of engaging my brain cells was the conclusion that from an operating  point of view the extra 3 or 4 feet wouldn't change anything, apart from a slightly longer travel time before the train arriving reached the buffer stops. All other movements would be the same, so I am achieving what I would like.

 

Some photos from last nights enjoyable running session.....it was only a year ago I got my first train running on Sheffield Exchange.

 

Back to locos and their crews. My layout is a terminus station, I always find with diesels drivers in both cabs on all locos wrong (before any says it could be a guard in the back cab, that was post 1968 and freight trains only). The same with DMUs, and it looks even sillier with drivers in the cabs of two units coupled together looking at each other. Which leads me on to Tension Locks, they work and I intend to keep them on the ends of all my DMUs so I can arrange them in multiple as I wish.

 

The perfect layout is the one that the owner enjoys operating and modelling, I am on the road to having my perfect layout.

 

Back in the 1970s, the last modelling I did with my late father as a "father/son" project was quite similar in style, although it was a through station rather than a terminus. Peco code 100 track, much RTR, a selection of kit built wagons and carriages and even a couple of locos.

 

Perhaps my modelling skills have moved on and I now spend more time building things (and usually not finishing them in a sensible timescale) but seeing your photos brought me a very pleasant dose of nostalgia for a time when the hobby was perhaps simpler but maybe even more satisfying and enjoyable.

 

When we operated the layout, it didn't matter one jot that some of the wagons had the same number or that the train was made up of whatever carriages Hornby Dublo, Triang or Kitmaster had produced.

 

We had a timetable and we ran it for many hours and enjoyed every moment. It never got developed scenically beyond what you see here but it was our railway and we loved it!

 

A few photos survive including dad's notes on what services were being run.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I’ve been thinking carefully about how to reply to this because I’m caught in a dilemma. I cannot argue with your reasoning that if one is exhibiting, it ought to be right.....however, I think this is a case where the best can be the enemy of the good.

 

Let me explain. Everyone has a limited amount of time for modelling. For some it’s a lot more than others, but railway modelling is very time consuming and choices have to be made. At an exhibition I would rather see large layouts of the LB, LSGC, Grantham, Liverpool Lime Street type rather than BLTs. If a limited amount of time is to be spent, it’s likely that the large layout will be less detailed than the BLT. But I know I’d rather see an ‘impressionist’ large layout than a perfectly finished BLT. Obviously, if a team has the time then a perfect large layout is better still, but let’s not put people off large layouts by imposing the highest standards on all exhibited layouts.

 

As for using RTR out of the box, I’m totally in agreement with you. I go mainly to see the trains, and the layout is just a stage, (albeit a time consuming and often exquisite one). So I want to see prototypical formations and realistic looking stock. I’m happy for much of it to be modified RTR provided the work has gone into creating  accurate formations.

 

I think your kind of constructive criticism is very helpful and ought to be welcomed by any modeller. E.g. did you know that that A4 has the wrong kind of tender, or the use of lower case on the signal box. I have been on the receiving end of several of your ‘you clot’ moments, and I have found them useful, if slightly frustrating at the time. Criticism, such as you don’t have any point rodding, or your signals don’t work would be less appreciated, as presumably the exhibitor knows that! It would be fair, of course, to say in justification of a judging decision.

 

One area where I disagree, as you know, is tension locks. Yes, they’re ugly, but so is every other coupling system. If someone invents a radio controlled miniature shunter who runs around the layout coupling and uncoupling scale couplings, then I’ll convert. Until then, everything is a compromise and tension locks work. I’ll hide them where I can (e.g. remove from the front of tender locos, use corridor connectors to cover them up, occasionally replace with a wire loop on tank engines, use 3 links in the middle of fixed formation goods), but I’m not going to waste ages on changing over to another system which is only marginally less of a compromise.

 

All the best and keep on driving standards up.

 

Andy

 

Thanks for that, Andy,

 

Have I really called you a clot? If so, it's because I've been called that many times by my mentors - with justification! 

 

I'm very lucky in that just about all my involvement in layout modelling has been as part of a team or teams. Teams which have contained (and still do) some of the most-experienced and competent modellers in the land. Being part of teams such as this actually improves 'personal' modelling. One doesn't want to let the rest down by producing dodgy work! It can be (and is) a hard taskmaster, but such is the way towards greater knowledge and self-improvement. 

 

Your daughter is actually part of the LB team, and those beautifully little gardens she made are on the layout on merit - not out of sentimentality.

 

 

There they are, just to the top right in this overall scene. Thanks Ellen, they fit in perfectly!

 

The point rodding to the left continues to grow..............

 

As for point rodding and, particularly, non-working signals, then I admit to being a zealot, especially with regard to the latter. Signals (semaphores), to me, are just as important working models on a layout as the locos and trains. I suppose I should apply that same insistence to working road vehicles (or moving passengers!), but I've yet to see a working system which really convinces me. And, anyway, vehicles can just be placed in static-mode, something not too convincing if applied to locos and stock, and signals on an 'operating' layout.

 

Tension-locks? No, never, though the replacement wire loop on locos is a great improvement. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I’ve been thinking carefully about how to reply to this because I’m caught in a dilemma. I cannot argue with your reasoning that if one is exhibiting, it ought to be right.....however, I think this is a case where the best can be the enemy of the good.

 

Let me explain. Everyone has a limited amount of time for modelling. For some it’s a lot more than others, but railway modelling is very time consuming and choices have to be made. At an exhibition I would rather see large layouts of the LB, LSGC, Grantham, Liverpool Lime Street type rather than BLTs. If a limited amount of time is to be spent, it’s likely that the large layout will be less detailed than the BLT. But I know I’d rather see an ‘impressionist’ large layout than a perfectly finished BLT. Obviously, if a team has the time then a perfect large layout is better still, but let’s not put people off large layouts by imposing the highest standards on all exhibited layouts.

 

As for using RTR out of the box, I’m totally in agreement with you. I go mainly to see the trains, and the layout is just a stage, (albeit a time consuming and often exquisite one). So I want to see prototypical formations and realistic looking stock. I’m happy for much of it to be modified RTR provided the work has gone into creating  accurate formations.

 

I think your kind of constructive criticism is very helpful and ought to be welcomed by any modeller. E.g. did you know that that A4 has the wrong kind of tender, or the use of lower case on the signal box. I have been on the receiving end of several of your ‘you clot’ moments, and I have found them useful, if slightly frustrating at the time. Criticism, such as you don’t have any point rodding, or your signals don’t work would be less appreciated, as presumably the exhibitor knows that! It would be fair, of course, to say in justification of a judging decision.

 

One area where I disagree, as you know, is tension locks. Yes, they’re ugly, but so is every other coupling system. If someone invents a radio controlled miniature shunter who runs around the layout coupling and uncoupling scale couplings, then I’ll convert. Until then, everything is a compromise and tension locks work. I’ll hide them where I can (e.g. remove from the front of tender locos, use corridor connectors to cover them up, occasionally replace with a wire loop on tank engines, use 3 links in the middle of fixed formation goods), but I’m not going to waste ages on changing over to another system which is only marginally less of a compromise.

 

All the best and keep on driving standards up.

 

Andy

 

I think you've summarised the point of the last day or so's postings very nicely Andy. It doesn't matter one iota what you do, but if you offer it for inspection (on forums, at exhibitions, whatever) then it must surely be right to receive and take on board constructive criticism. Snide carping is another matter - we can let that go through to the keeper.

Edited April 12, 2019 by St Enodoc

[Manxcat]

I wonder if I might take a moment of your time to glean some views on a particular question. I am about to start a selection of brick built buildings for our club layout. Some years ago I chose, for the first time ever for me, to make a couple of small terraces using card and brick paper. I usually build using a plain plasticard shell with brick embossed plasticard on the surface. I can get a nice weathered finish after painting embossed brick and can pick out the odd brick for a varied surface, using a bow pen. However I stumbled across a website where numerous variations of brick surfaces could be downloaded and printed on adhesive backed paper at quite an economical price. I attach a photo of the terrace I built and have to say I was very pleased with the result.

 

So, should I make all the new ones with brick papers or embossed plasticard? If I mix them would one make the other look strange? When you look at a layout with brick papered buildings do you immediately think that takes something away from the buildings? 

 

I am aware I could "lay" paper bricks one at a time but I fear my eyesight might not be quite up to that now! 

 

The photo is by Nigel Burkin.

 

Archie

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Manxcat

[t-b-g]

That would suggest that you should only submit your layout for scrutiny if you want people to tell you, helpfully and constructively, what you have got wrong.

 

Many people are probably in blissful ignorance of what they have got wrong. Others are probably quite aware of any shortcomings and don't need somebody else to remind them.

 

I would suggest that if somebody actively requests comments, then that is fine. The simple act of showing what you have done to other modellers does not imply that you want or need to hear about what you got wrong, no matter how constructively it is said.

 

If only modellers who thought they had got everything perfect submitted their layouts to inspection, there would be very little to see anywhere.

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, t-b-g said:

That would suggest that you should only submit your layout for scrutiny if you want people to tell you, helpfully and constructively, what you have got wrong.

 

Many people are probably in blissful ignorance of what they have got wrong. Others are probably quite aware of any shortcomings and don't need somebody else to remind them.

 

I would suggest that if somebody actively requests comments, then that is fine. The simple act of showing what you have done to other modellers does not imply that you want or need to hear about what you got wrong, no matter how constructively it is said.

 

If only modellers who thought they had got everything perfect submitted their layouts to inspection, there would be very little to see anywhere.

That's not quite what I meant, Tony. None of us thinks that they have got everything perfect but, turning my earlier observation around, if someone offers some constructive criticism (and I stress constructive), then it is surely wrong to dismiss it out of hand.

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

That's not quite what I meant, Tony. None of us thinks that they have got everything perfect but, turning my earlier observation around, if someone offers some constructive criticism (and I stress constructive), then it is surely wrong to dismiss it out of hand.

Tony's remark of blissful ignorance is important, for some of us we're happier in that state than to know our North Cornwall layout with a brick built generic Bachmann station building and brick platforms is rather out of keeping with other structures in that area.

 

If I publish pictures of my layout in progress I may invite questions and comments but equally I may be perfectly happy in my ignorance as the stress of trying to build something more akin to St Merryn may currently be beyond me but the fact it is not strictly prototypical should not preclude me from publishing images on this site.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

That would suggest that you should only submit your layout for scrutiny if you want people to tell you, helpfully and constructively, what you have got wrong.

 

Many people are probably in blissful ignorance of what they have got wrong. Others are probably quite aware of any shortcomings and don't need somebody else to remind them.

 

I would suggest that if somebody actively requests comments, then that is fine. The simple act of showing what you have done to other modellers does not imply that you want or need to hear about what you got wrong, no matter how constructively it is said.

 

If only modellers who thought they had got everything perfect submitted their layouts to inspection, there would be very little to see anywhere.

Thanks Tony,

 

I honestly believe that if you (the generic 'you') present your work in print, on forums (fora?) and at exhibitions (especially if a person has paid to see it), then you should expect to get comments, be they praise, brickbats, suggestions, opinions, criticisms or what you will. That surely comes with the territory. 

 

Whenever I present what I'm doing, I expect to invite comments. Not gushing praise and 'likes' - I regard the latter as a bit naff - but genuine, critical comment. That way I learn more, and, more importantly, if applicable, change something which was wrong into something which is nearer being correct; if I can. 

 

Modellers who believe they've got everything right are merely deluding themselves, so it's perhaps best that we see so few of their creations to inspect. 

 

If anyone is 'afraid' of what they might receive as comments on showing their work, then, perhaps, they'd better not bother. I've learned far more because of constructively-critical comments received down the years than I have from 'gushing praise'; thankfully, there's been precious little of that! I've also learned a lot from these pages.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Manxcat said:

I wonder if I might take a moment of your time to glean some views on a particular question. I am about to start a selection of brick built buildings for our club layout. Some years ago I chose, for the first time ever for me, to make a couple of small terraces using card and brick paper. I usually build using a plain plasticard shell with brick embossed plasticard on the surface. I can get a nice weathered finish after painting embossed brick and can pick out the odd brick for a varied surface, using a bow pen. However I stumbled across a website where numerous variations of brick surfaces could be downloaded and printed on adhesive backed paper at quite an economical price. I attach a photo of the terrace I built and have to say I was very pleased with the result.

 

So, should I make all the new ones with brick papers or embossed plasticard? If I mix them would one make the other look strange? When you look at a layout with brick papered buildings do you immediately think that takes something away from the buildings? 

 

I am aware I could "lay" paper bricks one at a time but I fear my eyesight might not be quite up to that now! 

 

The photo is by Nigel Burkin.

 

Archie

 

 

 

 

Brickpapers are a wonderful material for representing the surfaces of buildings, Archie,

 

Embossed or moulded bricks often have mortar courses which are far too deeply recessed.

 

That's beautiful modelling, by the way.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Kingzance]

As a reader and occasional exhibition visitor who is very slowly building a non-exhibition layout, I have to say that I am in awe (in the vast majority of cases) of the layouts I see at shows. As I am unable to reach the required standards to have something that I would be happy to display, I use both the published and exhibited layouts as inspiration and as guidance. I am certain what I am doing has been immeasurably improved by Tony Wright's and many others' articles, pictures and historical and instructional videos. The hobby would be the worse for any reduction in the  people willing to "put their heads above the parapet" so to speak (in terms of the steam era that fascinates me and during which my effort is based, should that be "sticking one's head out of the carriage window"?). Those of us who get eventually something to work but don't exhibit are free to use Rule 1 in any and all circumstances. Exhibition layouts and their owners / operators are exposed to the general public - many of whom do not even know that Rule 1 exists. Today we seem to have a polarised society in which "only my opinion has any validity" and "I'm going  to express myself regardless of any consequence".

 

Grumpy old git now going back under his stone!