Wright writes.....

[Pacific231G]

7 hours ago, CF MRC said:

I believe, from talking with older MRC members many years ago, that the early shows were very much places where ‘members could display their models’  with separate stands for the main grouping companies (in fact I think that is written somewhere in the Club’s Memoranda of Understanding).  This would have been a little like the more recent Model Engineer Exhibitions where the models on display were critiqued in subsequent issues of the Model Engineer. 

Hi Tim

Would you have access to any early MRC showguides? What I'm able to find out about those early shows is rather limited to reviews of them in MRN and those undoubtedly reflect Maskelyne's priorities.

What those older MRC members said is in line with the reviews both before the war and for a few years after though there were also visiting displays notably from France and Belgium. I don't know when it was opened more widely to other clubs and modellers but in 1947 and 1948, the first two MRC exhibitions after the war,  it certainly stuck to that format along with a "freelance" section, an area for working model railways or sections of them - still by club menbers, and of course a good number of trade stands. The MRC also had a stand at the annual Model Engineer exhibition.  There seems to have been a huge emphasis on models of locomotives perhaps exagerated by their being Maskelyne's great interest.

 

Because most modellers before the war worked in O scale or larger, most layouts were permanent home affairs so at exhibitions complete private working layouts like A.R. Walkley's OO 3.5mm scale portable sidings (really a proof of concept for small scale two rail and possibly only shown at the Wimbledon Club's exhibition) or Bill Banwell and Frank Applegate's Maybank (an O gauge main line terminus to fiddle yard) were very much the exception though there were others including several that appear in pre-war newreels like those that can be found here

https://www.britishpathe.com/video/model-railway-exhibition/query/MODEL+RAILWAY+EXHIBITION.

 

The great post-war popularity of OO, EM and H0 that really democratised the hobby also made portable layouts far more feasible. Peter Denny's "North Buckinghamshire Branch" was probably the first 18mm gauge layout to be exhibited though some modellers had been working with that gauge before the war but layouts that could be brought to exhibitions, albeit more locally than now,  would have really changed their nature. 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Pacific231G

[Jol Wilkinson]

4 hours ago, Hollar said:

Accurate recollection of colour is extremely fugitive.  I'd be happy to stand corrected by an expert, but remember reading something recently that 20 minutes is about the limit for anything precise.  Certainly my experience of hearing evidence in court is that  eyewitness memory of colour is almost as flaky as estimates of how long things went on for.

 

Tone

While I wouldn't claim to be an expert by any means, I did have the opportunity to visit several international automotive OE and refinish paint suppliers while I was still working in the motor industry.

 

Their views were that colour memory was, as Tony states, reliable for no more than 20 - 30 minutes. The acid test was to park your car, have a cup of coffee and then go into a paint retailer and pick out a can of aerosol paint where the colour on the lid should match your car.  Try it sometime.

 

They also all relied on women to do their paint "accuracy" matching, considering their ability to be much better than men.

[Tony Wright]

On 13/04/2019 at 09:26, Mallard60022 said:

Just noticed this pic (excellent) on a previous set of posts Tony and I noticed the '80' limit sign by the North box. The reason I mention it is I though there was a 65mph limit over the flat crossing at 36E and this sign is only 500/600 yards north of that crossing. Seems a little odd?

Phil

Odd, Phil?

 

The big locos on the ECML could accelerate like stink!

 

Thanks for the info on the LN.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

On 13/04/2019 at 10:01, Geep7 said:

 

Hi Tony,

 

Even as someone who uses DCC exclusively, I would still expect a DCC on-board fitted locomotive to run straight from the box on DC. 

 

No one should be expected to fiddle around with CV settings to allow their new purchase to run.

 

I presume, as already mentioned, CV29 isn't set to allow DC running from the factory. Why they would do this is anyones guess.

 

Regards, Chris

Thanks Chris,

 

Thanks to Kevin Dickerson at Coastal DCC, the DCC on-board Hornby LN now runs on analogue as well (though without any other functions). He popped it on his programming track, did something (a complete mystery!), and away it then went on straight (my ancient H&M Clipper) DC. 

 

The model in question was sent by Hornby for review in BRM. It's the first one I've had which wouldn't run on straight DC at source. 

 

By the way, both locos run superbly, if a little light on their feet. On ten heavy Pullman cars, a lot of slipping was encountered (at all speeds, especially on starting). My kit-built Schools just walked away with the same load. Why do I build my own locos?

 

My review will be appearing in the next issue of BRM. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

On 13/04/2019 at 22:15, Headstock said:

 

I can't say that I've ever come across any of the gangs of marauding model railway critics, phantom sniggeres or even Big foot while exhibiting. I must be extreamly lucky or deeply intimidating.

 

Ohh, dose Tony count?

Which Tony, Andrew,

 

Me or the nice one; Tony Gee? 

 

I think enough has probably been said about the attitudes of exhibitors and visitors towards 'constructive criticism'. I have my own (strident?) views, and others have different ones. I know for myself, if I'm exhibiting something and I've got something wrong through ignorance, indolence or just plain slipshod workmanship, I'd expect (indeed invite) comments to be made to me about it. 

 

For some reason my attempting to get on to RMweb has been frustrated by an 'error at the host' (whatever that means?), but by using lots of swearing and switching things off and on again, I've now succeeded. My reason for mentioning this is because I would have posted this yesterday evening...................

 

I've just returned from a quite marvellous weekend at the Ivanhoe Club's Show at Mountsorrel in Leics. I was there as a loco doctor/demonstrator. I also spoke to many folk and all agreed that, if punters pay to see what's being exhibited, then there is a responsibility to show accuracy, personal workmanship and reliable running. If these three things (and more) were lacking, then critical comments would be expected. I never expect folk to agree with me, but, on this occasion, they did. Others have obviously had different experiences. What was also interesting was that I was 'invited' to make comments!  

 

Over the weekend, Mo and I made over £120.00 for CRUK, through my loco ministrations, donations, sales of donated models, 'payment' for my answering questions (and being 'critical') and because the host club donated some of their takings. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you ever so much for such generosity of spirit. May I congratulate the Ivanhoe members for putting on such a splendid show? 

 

Speaking of 'generosity of spirit', I bought some exquisitely-made wagons from a second-hand dealer. My intention (at least in part) will be to sell them on for a profit, donating the profit to CRUK. There were bogie bolster wagons, some ABS white metal wagons, a 'Bowplate' a 'Tube' and several vans. What did I pay? The princely sum of £4.00 each. Why were they so cheap? They were built with wheels set to EM Gauge! Most-interestingly, alongside, there were rows of second-hand Hornby/Bachmann/Dapol wagons, all at at least twice that price! 

 

It took me half an hour last evening to reset the wheels to OO! This might offend the purists, but they'll now be much easier to resell. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[petrovich]

14 hours ago, petrovich said:

All

 

Could someone explain to me copper tube diameter and wire thickness for operating points with motors placed some distance away say 4 to 6inches.

 

Regards

 

Peter

Good morning all

 

Have now found tube and wire at Mercontrol which will be ideal.

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Mallard60022]

43 minutes ago, petrovich said:

Good morning all

 

Have now found tube and wire at Mercontrol which will be ideal.

 

Regards

 

Peter

Could you just share that 'info' Peter? Just seen this and it would save me some searching if you would not mind and enable me to seek some out at York. At the moment I am using plastic tube for some op's and  I can see it isn't always going to be suitable for certain tasks. 

Phil

Edited April 15, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Odd, Phil?

 

The big locos on the ECML could accelerate like stink!

 

Thanks for the info on the LN.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony and others for comments. I rather shot myself in part of a foot as I was thinking this was possibly 'limit ahead' sign from a possible higher speed stretch, thus showing my ignorance of the shape of such items and also thinking that the speed of trains over the crossing could have been higher than 65mph and needed to reduce to 80 maximum. Presumably there were limit signs on approach to the crossing? All this, of course, would have been part of crew knowledge for the route. 

Thinking of this, it must be important, despite these being but small details in the bigger picture, to consider the use (and position) of such signs on layouts and seek information, pictorial evidence or advice from those that know the 'rules'. I shall look carefully at Mr J's Retford when I go over there

All the best.

Phil

[petrovich]

24 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Could you just share that 'info' Peter? Just seen this and it would save me some searching if you would not mind and enable me to seek some out at York. At the moment I am using plastic tube for some op's and  I can see it isn't always going to be suitable for certain tasks. 

Phil

Hi Phil 

 

Link below, I am only using the piano wire and PTFE tubing .

 

http://www.lytchettmanor.co.uk/lytchett-manor/mercontrol---point-control

 

Hope it helps

 

Regards

 

Peter

[Mallard60022]

22 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I agree 100%. One of the nicest things that has happened to me in the hobby was when somebody mentioned how good they thought I was at engaging with people at shows. I usually come away from one with some new knowledge.

 

It is just as easy to start a conversation without it involving picking fault.

 

Exactly and that has happened to me at the one show where I exhibited a layout of mine*. Fortunately it was at Retford quite a few years ago and the footfall was (and always is) 'limited' and so I was not exhausted by having to engage for hours over the two days. It was exhausting enough physically, but I did enjoy the company of my older son who was out front at one control point most of the time. I also rather enjoyed the interaction between us and the 'civilians'.

I was also lucky in that most visitors (civilians) were 'locals' and as my layout was EM and should probably have been more carefully presented, however time had not been kind. There were one or two rather bodged items (a footbridge for one and it was adapted Airfix + some Wills' bits) added in a hurry, to distract from a baseboard join, before the show and being not structurally 'correct'. The back-scene(s) were also very crude but not untypical! I did point out to many that it was an example of how a layout, that was more 'to scale' trackwise, could be cobbled together by someone without  huge amounts of technical skill and experience. It was a have fun and play trains item but with the look of the real thing.

 

*I turned down offers for that layout to attend smaller shows as it is such a complete struggle to set up and break down and I'm not so fit these days. I also thought it would need large amounts of work if it were to be viewed by, shall we say, a more discerning audience.  

Phil

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Thanks Tony and others for comments. I rather shot myself in part of a foot as I was thinking this was possibly 'limit ahead' sign from a possible higher speed stretch, thus showing my ignorance of the shape of such items and also thinking that the speed of trains over the crossing could have been higher than 65mph and needed to reduce to 80 maximum. Presumably there were limit signs on approach to the crossing? All this, of course, would have been part of crew knowledge for the route. 

Thinking of this, it must be important, despite these being but small details in the bigger picture, to consider the use (and position) of such signs on layouts and seek information, pictorial evidence or advice from those that know the 'rules'. I shall look carefully at Mr J's Retford when I go over there

All the best.

Phil

Thanks Phil,

 

Regarding the flat crossing at Retford, I've just come across an example of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. I've just reviewed (among others) Book Law's latest Last days of Steam on the Eastern Region. It's beautifully reproduced, and has some fantastic pictures in it, including some stunners at Retford. However, the compiler, seeing a '10 mph'' restriction sign in one of the images, assumes that's for the crossing on the main line. Of course, it isn't; it's for the curve from the GN (platform 1) to the GC towards Thrumpton. Thus, comments such as an A1 slowing to observe the 10 mph restriction over the crossing are nonsense. The regulator's in the roof and it's having a go in preparation for climbing Gamston!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[mullie]

17 minutes ago, petrovich said:

Hi Phil 

 

Link below, I am only using the piano wire and PTFE tubing .

 

http://www.lytchettmanor.co.uk/lytchett-manor/mercontrol---point-control

 

Hope it helps

 

Regards

 

Peter

Wizard Models also sell wire and tube, that is where I got mine from.

 

Martyn

[thegreenhowards]

Can I ask a question to the BR(E) great and good on this thread? I am finishing off a D.331 Thompson BTK(3) (Comet  sides on Bachmann donor), and I’m stuck with the lining. I can’t determine whether the upper lining should be continued above the brake compartment and if not, where it should stop. I have found photos which seem to show lining there, but others on which it is not evident, and I note that Bachmann did not line above the brake compartment on their old maroon Thompsons. Was there a date on which policy changed from not lining to lining, or am I just seeing things in the photos?

 

As you can see below, I have continued the lining, but I’m now having doubts! PS. Photo is work in progress. Roof, glazing and stepboards still to be addressed.

 

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

 

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Can I ask a question to the BR(E) great and good on this thread? I am finishing off a D.331 Thompson BTK(3) (Comet  sides on Bachmann donor), and I’m stuck with the lining. I can’t determine whether the upper lining should be continued above the brake compartment and if not, where it should stop. I have found photos which seem to show lining there, but others on which it is not evident, and I note that Bachmann did not line above the brake compartment on their old maroon Thompsons. Was there a date on which policy changed from not lining to lining, or am I just seeing things in the photos?

 

As you can see below, I have continued the lining, but I’m now having doubts! PS. Photo is work in progress. Roof, glazing and stepboards still to be addressed.

 

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

 

 

Andy,

 

I would do, (and have done), as you have done.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[landscapes]

Hi Tony

 

I wonder if I may ask you a question please?

 

I know somewhere back in your thread you refer to using transfer numbers that can be applied to a locomotive smokebox number plate, and I believe you said you can purchase the entire set of numbers for a whole class of locomotives on just one sheet.

 

I know you spoke highly on the quality of the product, If you can remember the company that supplies these transfer sheets I wonder if you would please be kind enough to let me know their name.

 

Regards

 

David

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Can I ask a question to the BR(E) great and good on this thread? I am finishing off a D.331 Thompson BTK(3) (Comet  sides on Bachmann donor), and I’m stuck with the lining. I can’t determine whether the upper lining should be continued above the brake compartment and if not, where it should stop. I have found photos which seem to show lining there, but others on which it is not evident, and I note that Bachmann did not line above the brake compartment on their old maroon Thompsons. Was there a date on which policy changed from not lining to lining, or am I just seeing things in the photos?

 

As you can see below, I have continued the lining, but I’m now having doubts! PS. Photo is work in progress. Roof, glazing and stepboards still to be addressed.

 

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

 

Andy,

 

It would seem that some were lined below the cornice, but many weren't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've always lined mine. Looks like I needn't have bothered!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Andy,

 

It would seem that some were lined below the cornice, but many weren't.

I've always lined mine. Looks like I needn't have bothered!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Was this a Works thing do you think? York doing it one way and Donny (or wherever) doing it another? I know Stratford were a bit of a law unto themselves. 

P

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Was this a Works thing do you think? York doing it one way and Donny (or wherever) doing it another? I know Stratford were a bit of a law unto themselves. 

P

I've no idea, Phil,

 

I assumed that they were all lined, but, clearly, from the pictures, many (most?) were not. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Mallard60022]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

I've no idea, Phil,

 

I assumed that they were all lined, but, clearly, from the pictures, many (most?) were not. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

You have got me intrigued now. I shall ask a friend to see if there are any clues at the NRM.

P

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Can I ask a question to the BR(E) great and good on this thread? I am finishing off a D.331 Thompson BTK(3) (Comet  sides on Bachmann donor), and I’m stuck with the lining. I can’t determine whether the upper lining should be continued above the brake compartment and if not, where it should stop. I have found photos which seem to show lining there, but others on which it is not evident, and I note that Bachmann did not line above the brake compartment on their old maroon Thompsons. Was there a date on which policy changed from not lining to lining, or am I just seeing things in the photos?

 

As you can see below, I have continued the lining, but I’m now having doubts! PS. Photo is work in progress. Roof, glazing and stepboards still to be addressed.

 

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

 

 

I think that the OP was asking, when there IS lining at the cornice, should it continue above the brake section.

 

IMHO, the answer is 'Yes' - whether many of these coaches had cornice lining is immaterial to the OP.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

16 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that the OP was asking, when there IS lining at the cornice, should it continue above the brake section.

 

IMHO, the answer is 'Yes' - whether many of these coaches had cornice lining is immaterial to the OP.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Thanks John,

 

It might be immaterial to the original question, but it's certainly of interest to me (as, I hope, it's of interest to others). I merely expanded on that 'question', giving myself answers that I hadn't understood before. For what it's worth, when I next build/paint/line a Thompson brake in BR maroon, I'll omit the top lining altogether. It's certainly quicker and, it would seem, that's the most common.

 

Andy is free to entirely disregard my earlier post, as is everyone else. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[cctransuk]

25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It might be immaterial to the original question, but it's certainly of interest to me (as, I hope, it's of interest to others).

 

Tony,

 

Indeed - it just seemed to me that we were in danger of not answering the OP's question by going off at a tangent.

 

All interesting stuff, though.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

32 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

 

Indeed - it just seemed to me that we were in danger of not answering the OP's question by going off at a tangent.

 

All interesting stuff, though.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

John,

 

Thanks again, and you're quite right. 

 

As an ex-teacher I'm used to dodging questions! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Headstock]

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Can I ask a question to the BR(E) great and good on this thread? I am finishing off a D.331 Thompson BTK(3) (Comet  sides on Bachmann donor), and I’m stuck with the lining. I can’t determine whether the upper lining should be continued above the brake compartment and if not, where it should stop. I have found photos which seem to show lining there, but others on which it is not evident, and I note that Bachmann did not line above the brake compartment on their old maroon Thompsons. Was there a date on which policy changed from not lining to lining, or am I just seeing things in the photos?

 

As you can see below, I have continued the lining, but I’m now having doubts! PS. Photo is work in progress. Roof, glazing and stepboards still to be addressed.

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

 

 

Evening Andy,

 

snap, I have a 'mini me' Thompson BT 5 going through the paint shop at present. I will give the varnish another twenty four hours, add a little weathering, glaze, paint the cornise and ends, finish with the roof and it will be ready to trundle. Your carriage would be much better suited for pole vaulters I feel.

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

4 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

I wonder if I may ask you a question please?

 

I know somewhere back in your thread you refer to using transfer numbers that can be applied to a locomotive smokebox number plate, and I believe you said you can purchase the entire set of numbers for a whole class of locomotives on just one sheet.

 

I know you spoke highly on the quality of the product, If you can remember the company that supplies these transfer sheets I wonder if you would please be kind enough to let me know their name.

 

Regards

 

David

Seeing the boss is out for a few hours I will jump in.

The company is Pacific Models.

They are not transfers put printed sets of numbers. You just cut the one required from the sheet with a very sharp scalpel and attach it to the smoke box front.

They are indeed an excellent idea and provide a very neat finish.

Funnily enough I ordered some at the weekend.

Bernard