RMweb Premium Popular Post PaulCheffus Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: 1. Poor kits at source? 2. Bad design or over-complicated kits? 3. Incompatible materials? 4. Aspiration of the builder being too high? 5. Lack of skill/experience on the part of the builder? 6. Lack of perseverance on the part of the builder? 7. Fear of failure? 8. Wrong hobby taken up? 9. Loco too big for a layout (too tight curves)? 10. An RTR equivalent shows up, so why bother finishing a kit? 11. A lack of being 'bloody-minded' on the part of the builder? Hi More years ago than I care to think about I bought the Craftsman kit for the C12. I tried to solder it together but never managed very much as the solder wouldn't flow. This experience put me off etched kits for about twenty five years which I would put down to 4, 5 & 6. About eighteen years ago there was an advertisement for the N'thusiasts Tamper kit. I thought I would like one of those but its etched brass and I can't do etched brass. This was down to 7. Time passed and I learn't that I needed to use a separate flux, this was the real Eureka moment for me. I started building 2mm SA etched chassis for some of my wagons and followed this with full etched wagon kits. I then bought the Tamper kit but I left it in the box thinking one day. In 2007 I started the Tamper, which took me around four years to finish. I think I have now overcome my etched brass fears. Cheers Paul 11 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Chamby said: *gulp* The ‘build your own’ argument versus RTR is taking quite a battering today! I am quite ham fisted and make lots of mistakes but with some perseverance can get something working. This was the latest off the bench and is a 7mm version of 'Shannon' (WTC No 5). I built her in 4mm from my own etches and 3D prints (Valves & Chimney) and was so pleased I thought I'd do her in 7mm.....what I thought was going to be a simple re-size was a complete re-draw! I'm very pleased with her, but the paintwork and lining could (and should) be so much better. After that little foray into 7mm I'm back to 4mm. .but just one more 7mm loco beckons which ran alongside Shannon. 12 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long John Silver Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I certainly think Tony has a point about bloody-mindedness. When I built my first loco kit my soldering was just about OK for electrical work, and it had taken me about a year to get to that low standard. In the previous 5 years I’d had a couple of attempts to either solder or stick white metal together, with no real success, until I managed to build a couple of ABS wagon kits. My first kit was a K’s Coal Tank; it took a couple of months to put together. On test it could just about cover the distance from fiddle yard to station. Any attempt to run around a train resulted in derailment. To cut a very long saga short it took two and half years, three motors, three sets of wheels and four sets of pickups and two repaints before I was happy with it. I learnt a lot and had completed three other locos to a (by my standards) satisfactory level in the interim. I must have really wanted that Coal Tank. I have therefore some sympathy with those who get frustrated or give up, especially people like myself who are not gifted in an engineering or artistic way. I would certainly recommend anyone who has a half-finished kit to have another go at finishing it, even if it takes a while. It’s a great exercise in overcoming challenges, and as the project isn’t life or death can be taken at you own pace. If you’ve invested in the kit, you’ve already sunk costs into it so you can’t lose, and if you do start to make progress well who knows where it will lead? 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Long John Silver said: I certainly think Tony has a point about bloody-mindedness. When I built my first loco kit my soldering was just about OK for electrical work, and it had taken me about a year to get to that low standard. In the previous 5 years I’d had a couple of attempts to either solder or stick white metal together, with no real success, until I managed to build a couple of ABS wagon kits. My first kit was a K’s Coal Tank; it took a couple of months to put together. On test it could just about cover the distance from fiddle yard to station. Any attempt to run around a train resulted in derailment. To cut a very long saga short it took two and half years, three motors, three sets of wheels and four sets of pickups and two repaints before I was happy with it. I learnt a lot and had completed three other locos to a (by my standards) satisfactory level in the interim. I must have really wanted that Coal Tank. I have therefore some sympathy with those who get frustrated or give up, especially people like myself who are not gifted in an engineering or artistic way. I would certainly recommend anyone who has a half-finished kit to have another go at finishing it, even if it takes a while. It’s a great exercise in overcoming challenges, and as the project isn’t life or death can be taken at you own pace. If you’ve invested in the kit, you’ve already sunk costs into it so you can’t lose, and if you do start to make progress well who knows where it will lead? …….and if they read this then they have at their fingertips a host of folk that should support them should they need a little support. However, I regret that Hobby Holidays has almost retired its' excellent workshops on loco building and many other modelling skills. I found those sessions to be worth every penny. I know there are some other sessions available around the country but few and far between as far as I'm aware? Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollar Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: . . . . Dave Ellis at SEF is the most-helpful guy I know. Regards, Tony. He certainly is. My experience is that anything from any SEF kits is available on request, and with you in a couple of days. Not true of every model railway supplier, to put it mildly. Tone 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2019 16 hours ago, Tony Wright said: The making of it was part of a barter, rather than a commission, but on completing my half of the deal (by building a loco), my ex-'friend' then rejected it on several grounds..... .......He'd have none of this; he stripped the chassis and returned the wheels and motor/gearbox to me, and finished the building for his own layout. Despite my 'substandard' workmanship, he's kept the loco! Ever felt a chump over a deal? I did. His loss was far greater than yours.... 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Al, I was told (by more than one kit-manufacturer) that no more than 10% of loco kits are ever finished to satisfaction. By 'satisfaction', I'd say accurate in appearance and excellent runners. I'm beginning to think that it might be a lot less than that. I wonder why? 1. Poor kits at source? 2. Bad design or over-complicated kits? 3. Incompatible materials? 4. Aspiration of the builder being too high? 5. Lack of skill/experience on the part of the builder? 6. Lack of perseverance on the part of the builder? 7. Fear of failure? 8. Wrong hobby taken up? 9. Loco too big for a layout (too tight curves)? 10. An RTR equivalent shows up, so why bother finishing a kit? 11. A lack of being 'bloody-minded' on the part of the builder? There are probably many more reasons. One thing I have noticed is that those who fail, very often blame the kit for that failure, when they really should look at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 11 in my list above. If the cap fits................... Regards, Tony. Number 15: Kits still sitting in the Great Kit Mountain...... 1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said: …….and if they read this then they have at their fingertips a host of folk that should support them should they need a little support. However, I regret that Hobby Holidays has almost retired its' excellent workshops on loco building and many other modelling skills. I found those sessions to be worth every penny. I know there are some other sessions available around the country but few and far between as far as I'm aware? Phil Now that Phil is in the process of selling H.H. perhaps there might be a chance that the workshops will be resurrected...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said: …….and if they read this then they have at their fingertips a host of folk that should support them should they need a little support. However, I regret that Hobby Holidays has almost retired its' excellent workshops on loco building and many other modelling skills. I found those sessions to be worth every penny. I know there are some other sessions available around the country but few and far between as far as I'm aware? Phil Thanks Phil, It is a shame Hobby Holidays (Phil) is 'giving up'. I used to love being a tutor at those weekends (with you as a most-able, if giggly, student), and they're certainly a loss. Some time ago, it was mooted at BRM that I organise an extended weekend modelling course at, say, a conference centre or hotel - Friday afternoon/evening -Sunday afternoon. Accommodation would be provided and there'd be several tutors. There'd be a cost-implication, of course, but the magazine would have several 'stories' to write about afterwards. Sadly, because of my own ill-health, and other factors, it all came to nothing. Now I'm fully-recovered, I wonder whether there might be mileage in it. Regards, Tony. 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, polybear said: His loss was far greater than yours.... Thanks Brian, When folk get the whole story, they're inclined to agree. Though I still see him, I don't indulge in conversation. I'm afraid I might say something I'd regret.................. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 STOP PRESS! LB is going DCC this afternoon! I'll tell you all about it later..................................... 3 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2019 Applying a bit of Tony's recommended bloody-mindedness, I managed to dig myself out of last night's self-inflicted cock-up. It wasn't a major one, just a bit of over-clumsiness while drilling out a set of brake gear. Does anyone else not enjoy sweating together and drilling lots of brake shoes? It looks good when they're on, but it's definitely not my preferred part of chassis building, perhaps because of the repetitious element? Anyway, I managed to mangle the hole at the end of one of the shoes. Since I didn't have a spare, I built the mangled bit back up by gradually adding solder, and then was able to re-drill more carefully. If it had gone badly, I suppose I could have filed up a semi-presentable replacement from spare etch. Luckily, because the brakes are going on the Bulldog, and mostly tucked behind the outside frames, a multitude of sins can be hidden... Al 2 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long John Silver Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Barry Ten said: Applying a bit of Tony's recommended bloody-mindedness, I managed to dig myself out of last night's self-inflicted cock-up. It wasn't a major one, just a bit of over-clumsiness while drilling out a set of brake gear. Does anyone else not enjoy sweating together and drilling lots of brake shoes? It looks good when they're on, but it's definitely not my preferred part of chassis building, perhaps because of the repetitious element? Anyway, I managed to mangle the hole at the end of one of the shoes. Since I didn't have a spare, I built the mangled bit back up by gradually adding solder, and then was able to re-drill more carefully. If it had gone badly, I suppose I could have filed up a semi-presentable replacement from spare etch. Luckily, because the brakes are going on the Bulldog, and mostly tucked behind the outside frames, a multitude of sins can be hidden... Al It’s happened to me too, with brake gear and motion parts as well; repairable but a pain and a fiddle. I have some etched brake parts from Mainly Trains to retrofit on to a Cotswold/Nucast 42xx I built nearly 25 years ago; they’ve been in my “to do box” for five years, waiting, so I tell myself, for me to be in the right state of mind to tackle the job. Jon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 C Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: STOP PRESS! LB is going DCC this afternoon! I'll tell you all about it later..................................... Has your RMWeb account been hacked?! 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Phil, It is a shame Hobby Holidays (Phil) is 'giving up'. I used to love being a tutor at those weekends (with you as a most-able, if giggly, student), and they're certainly a loss. Some time ago, it was mooted at BRM that I organise an extended weekend modelling course at, say, a conference centre or hotel - Friday afternoon/evening -Sunday afternoon. Accommodation would be provided and there'd be several tutors. There'd be a cost-implication, of course, but the magazine would have several 'stories' to write about afterwards. Sadly, because of my own ill-health, and other factors, it all came to nothing. Now I'm fully-recovered, I wonder whether there might be mileage in it. Regards, Tony. That sounds excellent Tony. Does that Hotel up the Road from you do accommodation and do they have a room for a workshop? If you fancied doing a coach hack/build session I know that Worsely Works do a weekender each year, but that is more a come and do your own thing and it might be an advantage to have someone on hand that could be a 'Tutor' if required? I only found out about those sessions by accident! Phil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Phil, It is a shame Hobby Holidays (Phil) is 'giving up'. I used to love being a tutor at those weekends (with you as a most-able, if giggly, student), and they're certainly a loss. Some time ago, it was mooted at BRM that I organise an extended weekend modelling course at, say, a conference centre or hotel - Friday afternoon/evening -Sunday afternoon. Accommodation would be provided and there'd be several tutors. There'd be a cost-implication, of course, but the magazine would have several 'stories' to write about afterwards. Sadly, because of my own ill-health, and other factors, it all came to nothing. Now I'm fully-recovered, I wonder whether there might be mileage in it. Regards, Tony. Those courses were a hoot and I was inducted into the Mr Blobby School of Soldering. P 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 5 C said: Has your RMWeb account been hacked?! I don't think so, Andy, Anyway, here's why LB has been DCC for this afternoon............ Or, at least one circuit. This is Hornby's DCC on-board J36, in as-preserved condition. Has there ever been a better RTR model loco in OO? This afternoon, Howard Smith and I have been running it and doing a little bit of camcording. It performed exceptionally well, though the sound(s) isn't entirely convincing, at least to me, in every application; could one hear, for instance, a fireman cooking his breakfast on the shovel from 400 yards away? Still there are umpteen sound functions, and the loco does run superbly. As with the recent 'Nelson' it will not run on analogue as-supplied. Odd, don't you think? Howard will put the moving footage on BRM digital/facebook/etc (a complete mystery to me), and I'll be writing the review for BRM. LB is now disconnected from DCC, but it'll be DCC again next month when the Bachmann chaps bring along their latest goodies for filming. Doesn't this prove the complete flexibility of DC over DCC? Could we run analogue locos on a DCC system? When I've tried (foolishly?), they just buzz! Edited May 13, 2019 by Tony Wright typo error 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: That sounds excellent Tony. Does that Hotel up the Road from you do accommodation and do they have a room for a workshop? If you fancied doing a coach hack/build session I know that Worsely Works do a weekender each year, but that is more a come and do your own thing and it might be an advantage to have someone on hand that could be a 'Tutor' if required? I only found out about those sessions by accident! Phil That's a good idea, Phil, The Willoughby does do accommodation, and they have a suitable room. I'll make enquiries. The weekend could be finished off with a running session on LB. What could be offered, I wonder? Loco-/coach-/stock-building? Painting and lining? Architecture? Scenery? Wiring? Certainly not DCC from me! I'll see what's possible, and how much it might all be. Regards, Tony. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Tony Wright said: That's a good idea, Phil, The Willoughby does do accommodation, and they have a suitable room. I'll make enquiries. The weekend could be finished off with a running session on LB. What could be offered, I wonder? Loco-/coach-/stock-building? Painting and lining? Architecture? Scenery? Wiring? Certainly not DCC from me! I'll see what's possible, and how much it might all be. Regards, Tony. Be happy to support you with this if only to help someone cut up a plastic coach or two or collect folk from Grantham Station for exampe. I suspect you would fill the course with loco builders or at least, loco 'improvers'. P 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Barry Ten said: Applying a bit of Tony's recommended bloody-mindedness, I managed to dig myself out of last night's self-inflicted cock-up. It wasn't a major one, just a bit of over-clumsiness while drilling out a set of brake gear. Does anyone else not enjoy sweating together and drilling lots of brake shoes? It looks good when they're on, but it's definitely not my preferred part of chassis building, perhaps because of the repetitious element? Anyway, I managed to mangle the hole at the end of one of the shoes. Since I didn't have a spare, I built the mangled bit back up by gradually adding solder, and then was able to re-drill more carefully. If it had gone badly, I suppose I could have filed up a semi-presentable replacement from spare etch. Luckily, because the brakes are going on the Bulldog, and mostly tucked behind the outside frames, a multitude of sins can be hidden... Al Being bloody-minded is essential if you're a builder, Al, I, too, have been fitting brake gear to the 'bloody' L1 chassis. Yes, there were the bits - hangers and blocks - six of each. Except, one hanger pinged into oblivion from my tweezers! Why don't kit-makers give you spares? There's ample space on the frets and it wouldn't cost any more. Fortunately, the ex-Mainly Trains etched brake hanger/blocks frets are now available from Wizard/MSE/Comet, and one, with a bit of filing, was suitable. Regards, Tony. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: LB is now disconnected from DCC, but it'll be DCC again next month when the Bachmann chaps bring along their latest goodies for filming. Doesn't this prove the complete flexibility of DC over DCC? Could we run analogue locos on a DCC system? When I've tried (foolishly?), they just buzz! I don't quite agree with Sir's logic there. If the layout wiring is the plumbing, all you've done is run hot water (DCC) through it instead of cold water (DC). You could just as easily take a DCC layout and run DC through it. (Edit - just back from a run with a slightly clearer head so will amplify: I think all that's been proven is that LB is well wired. Any well-wired layout could be run in either DC or DCC mode. Obviously in the latter case a layout might not have any section switches so it might be a case of DC only being capable with one engine in steam, but that wouldn't preclude running an engine for test purposes. And a DCC layout fitted with frog juicers and the like wouldn't be capable of being run in DC mode, but of the four DCC layouts I've built, only the most recent of them had such gadgetry. Why? Because it's based around French RTR HO and will never need to run a non-DCC engine.) As you were. Edited May 13, 2019 by Barry Ten 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERandBR Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 On some DCC systems it is possible to run a DC only locomotive but you do have to be very careful what motor is equipped. I've seen an old Lima 47 fry it's motor when it was placed on DCC! Allowing a DCC equipped locomotive to run on DC is just a setting on the decoder. Why Hornby has taken the decision to set this setting to 'DCC Only' is in many way's silly in my opinion. The DC setting is there to allow for backward compatibility and I feel that's very important. Admittedly it takes but a few seconds to change the setting yourself but for that you need to have a DCC system and know how to use said system and how to change the setting. For those who choose to stick with their DC setup that isn't possible so they will end up with a non-functional loco at source. Sticking with DC is perfectly acceptable I hasten to add. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 41 minutes ago, LNERandBR said: Admittedly it takes but a few seconds to change the setting yourself but for that you need to have a DCC system and know how to use said system and how to change the setting. A SPROG and a laptop is sufficient to change the CV without having to have a full DCC set-up. However that in itself is an expense that isn't warranted. I suspect many shops would do it for you when buying from them but the original configuration being DCC only is a poor idea. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I have done an experiment using lining transfers (Fox Transfers, grey lining 0.35mm) to do the roof lining on a Class 120 DMU I am building. Just the lining. It took about an hour per coach. First coat still slightly wet. A couple of hours later, now dry. Artificial / incandescent light. I did find that the airbrush managed to blow up a couple of strips which I used a brush to paint back into place. I like the result, visible, but not too prominent. The water and MicroSol used to apply the transfers have created some water marks but I like the fact they show through still, it feels like water runoff anyway. It will still need some sooty darkening and dry brushing. I am sure I am not the first to try this. Any thoughts or tips? Jamie 5 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2019 Bachmann DCC fitted locomotives will normally run on DC as delivered, I’ve known several folks who have never realised that their ‘DC’ loco actually has a chip fitted! I can also confirm Barry Ten’s comment about DCC layouts being able to run DC loco’s if you swop over the controller, my layout allows this for visiting loco’s but it is on a ‘one engine in steam’ basis. Hornby’s factory fitted TTS sound chips are a less sophisticated product, not as flexible as most other makes. The sound of frying breakfast and coal shovelling can normally be set lower by simple adjustment of a CV. Most sound chips volumes are factory set as if you are a ‘driver in the cab’, rather than as you would hear from a normal model railway operators location. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Tony Wright said: That's a good idea, Phil, The Willoughby does do accommodation, and they have a suitable room. I'll make enquiries. The weekend could be finished off with a running session on LB. What could be offered, I wonder? Loco-/coach-/stock-building? Painting and lining? Architecture? Scenery? Wiring? Certainly not DCC from me! I'll see what's possible, and how much it might all be. Regards, Tony. Drinking, Railway Modelling expertise and LB, I'll take two backstage passes!! But Tony, would it work? Surely you would get the numbers, you would need security! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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