Wright writes.....

[Jesse Sim]

30 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Jesse,

 

A track plan is here: https://maps.nls.uk/view/114652269#zoom=5&lat=9531&lon=13230&layers=BT

 

Martin.

Well that was easy, wow, thank you. Does website have like everything? Can you just search a place and it comes up? Also, how accurate is it? Is that a plan of today or? 

[drmditch]

22 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

Well that was easy, wow, thank you. Does website have like everything? Can you just search a place and it comes up? Also, how accurate is it? Is that a plan of today or? 

I think the map is dated.

The National Library of Scotland also provide a very useful 'then and now' comparison facility. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=13.57784682501773&lat=54.6382&lon=-1.6359&layers=1&right=BingHyb

 

The maps used are selectable. I find the OS 25" to the mile for 1914 to be most useful.

[martin_wynne]

17 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

Well that was easy, wow, thank you. Does website have like everything? Can you just search a place and it comes up? Also, how accurate is it? Is that a plan of today or? 

 

It's the National Library of Scotland's web site. They have scanned historic OS maps of most of Great Britain at various dates. The date of that one was 1886. Here's a later one of 1903:

 

 https://maps.nls.uk/view/114652272#zoom=5&lat=9490&lon=13281&layers=BT

 

Note the addition of a crossover.

 

That map is also available as a "slippy" georeferenced map, here:

 

 https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18&lat=52.9330&lon=-0.7024&layers=168&b=4

 

Drag the blue dot slider on the left to cross-fade to the modern aerial view.

 

Martin.

[Jesse Sim]

Now to work out how to take the map and make it into a scale track plan....I’m so not computer savvy 

[martin_wynne]

Just now, Jesse Sim said:

Now to work out how to take the map and make it into a scale track plan....I’m so not computer savvy 

 

Templot can make a screenshot from it for you, allow you to create a track plan over it, and print it at your scale model size.

 

See: http://templot.com/companion/get_map_from_the_web.php

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

p.s. for an overview map of the whole of GB with the full network of branch lines in the 1950s, the historic 25K map is very useful (and a good way to waste a few hours):

 

 https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=52.9496&lon=-0.8055&layers=10&b=4

 

That's the same scale as the modern OS Explorer maps (orange cover), but shows Britain's railway network at its height.

 

Drag the map around, and drag the blue dot to cross-fade to the modern aerial view. Press ALT+SHIFT keys while dragging to rotate the map.

 

Martin.

[Bucoops]

And you can buy hi-res scans of sections of it too. Fantastic resource.

[CUTLER2579]

1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said:

Now to work out how to take the map and make it into a scale track plan....I’m so not computer savvy 

 

Now I know why you get on with T W so well 

Seriously though if you need any 2019 photo's I live about 1 mile away in Grantham.

BUT, I am no Tony Wright with a camera although Age & Computer literacy we are much the same. Literacy I'm more like a Jesse.

[Dave Hunt]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Today, I've finished the DJH 'Semi's' body. Far too much time has gone by since I started the model in March (at the Preston Show), so it's time it was finished. I've got the valve gear to make to complete it. I always leave 'nasty' jobs like that to the last. 

 

 

Tony, 

 

Not wanting to be too pedantic but what you're making isn't a 'semi', it's a de- streamlined Stanier Pacific. When the streamlining was first removed but whilst it still had the sloping top to the smoke box it was what we used to call a 'semi', which was schoolboy speak for 'semi streamlined'. Your model shows it after the smoke box was rebuilt to cylindrical form and it was no longer a 'semi'.

 

You are spot on about the Coronations probably being the most impressive British locomotives but I wouldn't

call the LNER Pacific exactly ugly.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Jesse Sim]

23 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Now I know why you get on with T W so well 

Seriously though if you need any 2019 photo's I live about 1 mile away in Grantham.

BUT, I am no Tony Wright with a camera although Age & Computer literacy we are much the same. Literacy I'm more like a Jesse.

Most definitely the reason. 

 

Would you happen to know what buildings are still there? 

 

Its very early stages, but I think I may be making an exhibition layout, my first one. So I’ve gone with Allington as it’s easy and I have a fair amount of stock to start off with. 

[Jesse Sim]

2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Templot can make a screenshot from it for you, allow you to create a track plan over it, and print it at your scale model size.

 

See: http://templot.com/companion/get_map_from_the_web.php

 

Martin.

Many thanks for your help, I do have Templot, I’ll now have to work out how to use it, I’m hopeless with this sort of thing. 

[Tony Wright]

16 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Tony, 

 

Not wanting to be too pedantic but what you're making isn't a 'semi', it's a de- streamlined Stanier Pacific. When the streamlining was first removed but whilst it still had the sloping top to the smoke box it was what we used to call a 'semi', which was schoolboy speak for 'semi streamlined'. Your model shows it after the smoke box was rebuilt to cylindrical form and it was no longer a 'semi'.

 

You are spot on about the Coronations probably being the most impressive British locomotives but I wouldn't

call the LNER Pacific exactly ugly.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Dave,

 

Ah, but you're wrong.

 

The origin of the term 'Semi' might well be a contraction of 'semi-streamlined', which applied to those locos which were originally streamlined, which, after the ugly casing was removed revealed a sloping smokebox top. By 1960, all of these had been replaced, anyway.  

 

But the term became generic for the whole class, irrespective of whether a member started off as a streamliner, or a Duchess (though several Duchesses were streamlined), City, or person. Even the last two were called 'Semis'.

 

Standing on Crewe Station, when one of these magnificent locos appeared, the whole trainspotting throng would chorus 'Semi'!, 'Semi'! Not one said 'Look, a 'Princess Coronation' is approaching. 

 

Geoff Holt once took me to task for calling the 'Princess Coronations' 'Semis', telling me off for calling such a powerful loco effectively half of something. I countered with the fact that 'Semi' was said with reverence. It was said with pride!

 

'Semi' might be a northern description, though mates from Birmingham called the locos that, too. What did southerners call them? 'Big-Uns', because I've heard that epithet used?

 

No, my dear friend, the whole great class, whatever each loco's origins, will always be known as 'Semis'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[cctransuk]

9 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'Semi' might be a northern description, though mates from Birmingham called the locos that, too.

 

 

... and if you came from Leicester, and trainspotted in Nuneaton and / or Rugby occasionally, they were definitely 'Semis'.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Dave Hunt]

I bow to the combined knowledge of the cognoscenti regarding the use of 'semi' for a de/un-streamlined Stanier Pacific but having, like you Tony, once been taken to task by two of my great friends, namely Geoff Holt and David Jenkinson, for referring to the engines as such, as well as earning disapproval from David Tee, I thought I was on to a winner!! Ah well, that's life.

 

You are still right about their appearance though.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Pannier Tank]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

'Semi' might be a northern description, though mates from Birmingham called the locos that, too. What did southerners call them? 'Big-Uns', because I've heard that epithet used?

 

During my Spotting Days (Early 60s) at Bletchley, My Father and I always referred to them as "Duchesses"

[APOLLO]

Semi southbound at Rylands Sidings, Wigan, Late 50's. Looks to be 46242 City Of Glasgow - One of dads photos. 

 

The semi streamlined smokebox top is noticeable. Known as Semis to Wigan spotters (all of em !!) - but they had mostly gone by my time.

 

 

Brit15

 

 

[seahorse]

My first post on this wonderful thread.

Going back to the recent discussion of online maps, I use the OS site www.old-maps .co.uk. There are editions for c1880, 1898, 1923, mid 30's, 50s, 60's and 70's, but not everywhere was surveyed for all dates, and some later railways escaped altogether. ( aside - Devon County Council planned the dual carriageway trunk roads using maps from 1903)  The later OS maps are marked in 100m squares. For initial  planning purposes this equates to four feet in 4mm and two feet in 2mm After all, nobody builds a model to the exact size, do they?? ( and its's four foot three and three quarters for those who do)

 

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

During my Spotting Days (Early 60s) at Bletchley, My Father and I always referred to them as "Duchesses"

 

I was always told by people far older than me that they were Duchesses whilst the streamlined ones were Coronations. Many of them were railwaymen who also referred to them by the power rating 7P/8P depending on era.

 

Semi seems to have come from trainspotter circles. I believe Princess Coronation was mainly used for publicity by the LMS when they were new. I was also told that wasn't used by railwaymen as it caused confusion between the two classes. They called the Princess Royals either Princesses or Lizzies.

 

I've also heard them referred to as Big Lizzies. Which gets even more confusing.

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Semi southbound at Rylands Sidings, Wigan, Late 50's. Looks to be 46242 City Of Glasgow - One of dads photos. 

 

The semi streamlined smokebox top is noticeable. Known as Semis to Wigan spotters (all of em !!) - but they had mostly gone by my time.

 

 

Brit15

 

 

 

I would suggest that photo is a bit earlier than late 1950s as it still has it's LMS style smokebox numberplates. It also has the de streamlined running plates which date it to pre 1952 when it was rebuilt after Harrow.

 

 

Jason

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, seahorse said:

Going back to the recent discussion of online maps, I use the OS site www.old-maps .co.uk. There are editions for c1880, 1898, 1923, mid 30's, 50s, 60's and 70's, but not everywhere was surveyed for all dates, and some later railways escaped altogether

 

Yes, old-maps.co.uk has a much wider range of dates available than NLS, including 25" maps of the 1950s and 60s. Unfortunately unlike the NLS they are not free, requiring a monthly subscription for usable zoom levels. However you can subscribe just for one month to get what you want. They seem to have been scanned at a lower resolution than the NLS maps, which is a pity given the much wider range of map dates available in this resource. And there is no georeferenced page URL available from which Templot can make a scaled screenshot automatically.

 

The OS grid was invented in 1936, so maps before this date do not have the grid squares. The older County Series 25" maps were drawn on a different projection, centred on each county. This means that the sheets do not match exactly along the sheet joins, and have to be resampled to create the seamless georeferenced slippy maps. In the process straight lines can become gently curved, and vice versa, which is worth noting if you are tracing long railway lines. (That's because the Earth is curved not flat, so can't be drawn exactly on a flat sheet of paper.)

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Semi southbound at Rylands Sidings, Wigan, Late 50's. Looks to be 46242 City Of Glasgow - One of dads photos. 

 

The semi streamlined smokebox top is noticeable. Known as Semis to Wigan spotters (all of em !!) - but they had mostly gone by my time.

 

 

Brit15

 

 

What a great shot!

 

Thanks for posting it. If it is 46242 (and I think it is), it can't be the late-'50s. In fact, it can't be after October 8th 1952. CITY OF GLASGOW was involved in the Harrow disaster on that date, and, when repaired (virtually renewed) she emerged with a 'Duchess'-style front platform, with the space ahead of the outside cylinders replaced by a continuous curved section of footplate and the deflectors extended at the bottom (unique for an ex-streamliner).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited to acknowledge Steamport Southport's observation. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Tony Wright

[CUTLER2579]

7 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Most definitely the reason. 

 

Would you happen to know what buildings are still there? 

 

Its very early stages, but I think I may be making an exhibition layout, my first one. So I’ve gone with Allington as it’s easy and I have a fair amount of stock to start off with. 

 

Hi Jesse,

Off the top of my head I wouldn't know ,but as soon as this monsoon season here finishes I will go up there and have a look. I am guessing your stock is more appropriate for the Late 50's Early 60's period . If that's the case I will try and find someone who remembers if from those days. Just give me a heads up on the period and we can go from there.

I had a very enjoyable morning visiting Little Bytham in reality and in model form which is always a pleasure. Was offered the usual Mo hospitality but had to decline as my other half is not keeping too well at the moment. I could mention one or two small points, but suffice to say the layout was up to Sir's expected  high standard of operation. It really is a superb layout and the thing I really like is that Sir always gives credit where it's due to people who have made contributions to the layout.

Regards,Derek.

 

 

[rapidotrains]

On 06/06/2019 at 14:39, Tony Wright said:

Good evening James,

 

What's the Rapido page, please?

 

I posted some of the following images on here last year, but can you make sure Jason sees these, please? 

 

They should be self-explanatory. The hinges are off a paste table, turned around. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

I've seen them and they are HUGELY helpful. Thank you for sharing these and thank you James for leading me to Tony's bridge.

 

-Jason

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Hi Jesse,

Off the top of my head I wouldn't know ,but as soon as this monsoon season here finishes I will go up there and have a look. I am guessing your stock is more appropriate for the Late 50's Early 60's period . If that's the case I will try and find someone who remembers if from those days. Just give me a heads up on the period and we can go from there.

I had a very enjoyable morning visiting Little Bytham in reality and in model form which is always a pleasure. Was offered the usual Mo hospitality but had to decline as my other half is not keeping too well at the moment. I could mention one or two small points, but suffice to say the layout was up to Sir's expected  high standard of operation. It really is a superb layout and the thing I really like is that Sir always gives credit where it's due to people who have made contributions to the layout.

Regards,Derek.

 

 

It was a pleasure to see you, Derek,

 

Thank you for not elaborating on the 'little points', but I will. As you know, I set zealous standards on the running of any layout I've been involved with, and Little Bytham is no exception. 

 

It hasn't really had a good run for over a week, and two Seep point motors decided to 'stick'. This is not uncommon if they haven't been used for a short while, especially during times of damp weather. A few wiggles with the finger, then fire backwards and forwards using the probe/CDU and they were fine. I think the A4's bogie derailment was caused by one of those points not completely closing. Needless to say, I've since fired the points umpteen times, and run the trains in question - all perfectly. 

 

I cannot tolerate poor running under any circumstances, especially in front of friends and guests. Next time, I'll make sure it's been run before you arrive.

 

Thank you once more for your very kind comments. As for crediting the work of others, it should be done - always.

 

Kind regards, and best wishes to your good lady. 

 

Tony. 

[martin_wynne]

9 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Would you happen to know what buildings are still there?

 

Hi Jesse,

 

You can see what was there in 2011 using Google Streetview on the level crossing. Here are the links:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/EieCh5K8jSgCSve19

 

https://goo.gl/maps/NyZskXymdcupyxvc9

 

https://goo.gl/maps/ku1DSwdKvUY4ViDs5

 

Martin.