Wright writes.....

[Engineer]

I'm so cheered and encouraged to see those images of the Deltic chassis and drive.  Thank you.  The quality of engineering is superb and the creativity in the drive train solution is excellent.  I have built some very satisfying drives that are distant cousins yet unsophisticated but recent years have been hard for me and my several prototypes haven't seen much further action.  Seeing this sort of work, and one or two other interesting forum topics in the past few months, is stirring me to do more along these lines.

 

The added degrees of freedom around the transfer box are particularly intriguing and, based on my experience of development, watching such a flexible drive operating through reverse curves is both magical and instructive.  My primitive upbringing in in 4mm model engineering included a Playcraft Stratford Goods set and a second-hand Tri-ang Transcontinental Diesel.  The former left me with an admiration for its large [coreless?] motor, the alignment tolerance [and crudity] of the gear train into the bogies and the benefits of all-wheel drive.  The latter loco, with the familiar Tri-ang drive bogie, taught me about wheel unloading associated with a high pivot centre relative to the traction centre.  It leads me to reflect on this excellent chassis - as it has the lowest practicable bogie pivot centres given the centre axle worm drives, how well do the bogies behave when there's a heavy tail load on the loco and generally, is there any restraint on body rock in the pivot design?

Edited June 29, 2019 by Engineer
Adjustments to Use of English

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Engineer said:

I'm so cheered and encouraged to see those images of the Deltic chassis and drive.  Thank you.  The quality of engineering is superb and the creativity in the drive train solution is excellent.  I have built some very satisfying drives that are distant cousins yet unsophisticated but recent years have been hard for me and my several prototypes haven't seen much further action.  Seeing this sort of work, and one or two other interesting forum topics in the past few months, is stirring me to do more along these lines.

 

The added degrees of freedom around the transfer box are particularly intriguing and, based on my experience of development, watching such a flexible drive operating through reverse curves is both magical and instructive.  My primitive upbringing in in 4mm model engineering included a Playcraft Stratford Goods set and a second-hand Tri-ang Transcontinental Diesel.  The former left me with an admiration for its large [coreless?] motor, the alignment tolerance [and crudity] of the gear train into the bogies and the benefits of all-wheel drive.  The latter loco, with the familiar Tri-ang drive bogie, taught me about wheel unloading associated with a high pivot centre relative to the traction centre.  It leads me to reflect on this excellent chassis - as it has the lowest practicable bogie pivot centres given the centre axle worm drives, how well do the bogies behave when there's a heavy tail load on the loco and generally, is there any restraint on body rock in the pivot design?

Thank you,

 

The bogies seem to behave perfectly. Given that there's also extra ballast inside the body, the whole thing  just seems to 'sit down' under load, and just powers away without any body rock at all.

 

There's some footage of it in action on Stoke Summit somewhere, and on Retford. Can anyone find these, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[t-b-g]

10 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

It is reassuring to know that even the greatest of the greats had their flaws.

 

Sadly now gone, the legend lives on.

 

I am struggling to see you logic with that one. Car has been an acceptable abbreviation for carriage for a long time.

 

 If not, our roads would be full of horseless carriages to this day!

[Tony Wright]

Given the recent discussions on diesels, perhaps some more photographs of such contraptions operating on Little Bytham.................................

 

 

I couldn't resist putting this one in, even though the station itself was closed and demolished nearly two years before the production Deltics appeared. It's obviously a Bachmann Deltic which has been detailed renamed/renumbered and weathered by Tom Wright. Does it ride a bit too high? (This isn't the one I lowered). Perhaps, but the finish is excellent

 

 

This EE Type 4 started off as a Lima one. Tom altered it substantially, including re-wheeling it to get rid of the gross originals. Packed with lead, it sits 'heavily' (and realistically) on its bogies. He painted it and weathered it. He made the mistake of fitting the vertical handrails at the edge of the noses. These were on the later batches of the class. They'll be staying in place!  It's my view that this looks more realistic than the Bachmann equivalent. 

 

 

Judge for yourselves if you wish. I detailed this Bachmann one, and Rob Davey weathered it. 

 

 

Another EE product (and a bit of a flop) was the Baby Deltic. This is no more than a Heljan one which I've just detailed a bit and weathered. I take my hat off to the likes of Clive Mortimer who actually make things like this - way beyond my capabilities and, thus, far too difficult!

 

 

Another Heljan diesel, a BRC&WC TYpe 2, again just detailed and weathered by me. Little, in my view, brings models to 'life' more than weathering. 

 

 

This time a Hornby diesel, an original Brush Type 2, detailed and weathered by Tom. The original chassis for this just expanded and crumbled to bits in part. It has a replacement one (how long will this last?), which I've yet to weather.

 

 

 

During the last year of the station's life, there were a couple of DMU turns (which failed to save it in 1959). These are just detailed/weathered Bachmann products. Rob Davey weathered the Cravens one and I weathered the Derby Lightweight. 

 

Diesels are obviously not the principal form of motive power on LB (though everything is really electric-powered), but they do make interesting 'punctuation marks' in the running sequence from time to time. I certainly don't view them in the same way as I view my steam-outline locos because I haven't made these (nor would I; much too difficult).

 

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[The Fatadder]

Love the look of the Deltic chassis, a scratch built diesel chassis is not something you see very often!

 

i have a plan for a similar brass structure utilising  a pair of Heljan bogies for a class 47 in the ‘one day’ pile.  Though a single motor and a lot of weight will be plenty for a set of 8 plastic coaches.   

 

Now to go get back to work on Brent’s platforms before it gets too hot in the garage!  

[Clearwater]

The last pic above, the Derby I think?,  perhaps highlights an issue with diesels and dmus.  It looks like there’s no driver - is there one at the other end?  Unlike steam where a cab figure is always roughly in the right place, a driver in the cab at the opposite end from the direction of travel always looks particularly wrong.

 

David

[The Johnster]

Yeah, I’ve got this issue with my autos.     I put drivers in trailer cabs and leave the fireman alone on the loco, incorrect when the loco is hauling.  But it only hauls for the 20 seconds or so the train appears running in to my BLT, and the bulk of time it is visible it is waiting to depart or departing, so I live with the anomaly.  

[john new]

Would a flip up/down driver be possible? Direction activated. One in each end. Possibly on a Dcc function.  Crank linked to a solenoid perhaps 

Edited June 29, 2019 by john new

[31A]

My layout is 'terminus to fiddle yard' format and I put a driver in both ends of DMUs - I don't find it bothers me too much - I think it's better than no driver at all.  I don't think it was that unusual for drivers (or maybe other staff as well) travelling 'on the cushions' to sit in the back cab of a DMU - I have memories of riding around East Anglia on Day Ranger tickets and bagging the back seat for a view out of the rear windscreen only to be thwarted by a railwayman jumping in at the last minute and spoiling my view!  On my layout, DMUs sometimes shunt from one platform to another and I remember this happening quite regularly at Bury St. Edmunds when trains from Cambridge terminated and re-platformed, and the Guard would sit in the opposite cab to the driver to 'spot' the signals and give a buzz signal to the driver; not allowed these days!  And when I was employed on the railway (much more recently), if there was a DMU shunt to be made we'd arrange for a spare driver, if there was one, to sit in the other cab to the booked driver to save him having to change ends and hence make the move more quickly.  So a few reasons to have a staff member in both ends ...

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clearwater said:

The last pic above, the Derby I think?,  perhaps highlights an issue with diesels and dmus.  It looks like there’s no driver - is there one at the other end?  Unlike steam where a cab figure is always roughly in the right place, a driver in the cab at the opposite end from the direction of travel always looks particularly wrong.

 

David

Of course the DMUs need drivers, David,

 

However, have you ever tried to get inside one of these Bachmann units? All I get are ominous cracking noises and underframe bits breaking off, not to mention the risk of any windows being pushed in.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

On occasions, a parcel arrives, one opens it and WOW! 

 

I know (I know I know) that I should have built the 'proper' MR/M&GNR overbridge last Christmas holidays, but didn't. Good friend, Jamie Guest, had done all the CAD work for it and Grainge & Hodder had etched it all, but indolence intervened.

 

No matter, because it's been (not quite completed) built by another friend, David Wager (from another sheet of etchings for it - mine are only just looked-at). And, he sent the bits he's done today! 

 

 

This has been the make-do-and mend girder bridge since LB was first built - the right width and the right length, but far too high between the girders and not enough sections. In fairness, I fudged it from a couple of Airfix girder bridges and brass section. It's done until now.

 

 

In fact, many visitors have assumed it was correct, but I know.

 

 

Fast-forward to March 1963 (actually just three hours ago) and the bridge has been demolished.

 

 

To be replaced (eventually) with this. I'm retaining the deck because the fit is perfect. I had to scrap the original girders (apologies to those who were interested in buying it), but won't these look good?

 

Watch this space...................... Literally! 

 

Thanks Jamie and thanks David. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[AY Mod]

Dyno-Rod have paid a visit to clear your PM inbox Tony.

 

They've left the PMs since the beginning of the year just in case you need them.

[jamie92208]

Great to see those girders Tony. Glad that there is progress.

 

Jamie

[Clearwater]

36 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Of course the DMUs need drivers, David,

 

However, have you ever tried to get inside one of these Bachmann units? All I get are ominous cracking noises and underframe bits breaking off, not to mention the risk of any windows being pushed in.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I’m afraid to say I don’t own a single DMU!  Yes, there is a point where the ominous noises would put off even the most adventurous.

 

David

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

My layout is 'terminus to fiddle yard' format and I put a driver in both ends of DMUs - I don't find it bothers me too much - I think it's better than no driver at all.  I don't think it was that unusual for drivers (or maybe other staff as well) travelling 'on the cushions' to sit in the back cab of a DMU - I have memories of riding around East Anglia on Day Ranger tickets and bagging the back seat for a view out of the rear windscreen only to be thwarted by a railwayman jumping in at the last minute and spoiling my view!  On my layout, DMUs sometimes shunt from one platform to another and I remember this happening quite regularly at Bury St. Edmunds when trains from Cambridge terminated and re-platformed, and the Guard would sit in the opposite cab to the driver to 'spot' the signals and give a buzz signal to the driver; not allowed these days!  And when I was employed on the railway (much more recently), if there was a DMU shunt to be made we'd arrange for a spare driver, if there was one, to sit in the other cab to the booked driver to save him having to change ends and hence make the move more quickly.  So a few reasons to have a staff member in both ends ...

I have contemplated bunging a driver in both ends of my DMUs. The concern I have is when I have an 8 coach lash up formed of 4 two car units. I will have three pairs of drivers staring at each other in the middle of the train, and that would look as daft as no drivers in my mind.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clearwater]

Tony

 

On the bridge, how does the power get to the tracks?  

 

Kind regards

 

David

[Richard_A]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Richard (I get up early these days!),

 

As promised.......................

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously (apart from one sideframe, the bogies are not completed (yet?). Tom thought of using the original Kitmaster sideframes, but they were lacking in relief. Thus, using them as a guide, he made a 'master' in brass, which a mate then made a mould from and cast them in resin. The springs are 10 BA studding. 

 

The gears/worms are standard Romford (the grease, which is remarkably effective, came from the days when he and his brother used to build radio-controlled model cars), and the spacers are standard turned items. Most of the rest (other than the giant motors) was built from brass and steel stock.

 

The crude 'hook' at the end is just a temporary lash-up for hauling trains.

 

It's a shame it was never completed for Retford. In the end, Roy Jackson acquired a Bachmann prototype DELTIC, and that was EM-ed (I've just invented a new word!). It was certainly much less-expensive than this would have been (Roy always pleaded poverty, bless him), but, there was nothing came near this in terms of haulage-power. 

 

Could I have built something like this when I was in my early-20s. Definitely not, nor in my early anythings.

 

Will it be ever finished? As I previously mentioned, it could be OO-ed (another new word?) in minutes, but, with the gearbox of an E Type Jag to put back together, I doubt it - at least, not for a long, long time. 

 

If Tom had still been active in railway modelling (he's still interested) when LB was being built (he did do a bit, to be fair), it would have been finished a lot sooner!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Thank you Tony,

 

Do you know how thick the brass sections are? And do the wheels sit in bushed holes in the frames, like you assemble your steam locomotive kits?

 

Regards Richard

[Tony Wright]

23 minutes ago, rka said:

Thank you Tony,

 

Do you know how thick the brass sections are? And do the wheels sit in bushed holes in the frames, like you assemble your steam locomotive kits?

 

Regards Richard

Richard,

 

The brass section is as thick as it needs to be. It's actually square tube. I haven't measured it, but it's clear in the pictures I'd hope.

 

And, yes, the axles run in standard top-hat bearings, coach axle diameter width.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

1 hour ago, Clearwater said:

Tony

 

On the bridge, how does the power get to the tracks?  

 

Kind regards

 

David

David,

 

I solder a piece of small-diameter brass tube to the outside of the rails, gapping through it and the rail after the track has been laid with a slitting disc. Then it's jut a case of pushing clearance-fit brass rod through, with a tiny 'L' at the ends. 

 

One then gets both electrical conductivity and mechanical integrity in one go.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

10 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

Tom sounds like a clever man Tony. You must be proud of him.

 

Tom's certainly clever enough to realise there's a lot more money to be made working with classic cars than train sets......

Edited June 29, 2019 by polybear

[drmditch]

Please excuse this appeal for help.

I have posted this ....here... in another section of this forum, and I wondered whether one or more of the clever people on Mr Wright's thread might be able to help.

Now that I am growing older, I am trying to learn new skill sets and improve my railway-building abilities, but this attempt to build a diode-matrix control for my storage sidings has taken far too much time away from the modelling I enjoy.

 

[polybear]

I've just paid a visit to Keith's Model Shop in Stevenage Old Town; it's the first time I've been in there for years, despite working within lunchtime walking distance.  Whilst not being able to compete with the big box shifters (some items being a fair bit dearer than internet, unsurprisingly), what Keith does cater for is the kitbuilder; I saw items such as AG wheels (cheaper than AG!), romford wagon/coach wheels, frame spacers, transfers, Markits crankpins, Chris Leigh castings, craftsman loco conversion kits (incl. DP2 and Lion), Linka moulds etc. Also Wild Swan Modelling Books, some at well out of date prices I'm sure.

I also saw Right Track DVD's 1 and 2 (loco construction), 2 copies of each at a tenner for each DVD. Sold under the counter in a plain brown envelope.....

It's worth noting that the shop is only open 3? days a week (Thurs to Sat, I think)

HTH

(No connection etc etc)

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

Great to see those girders Tony. Glad that there is progress.

 

Jamie

There is indeed, Jamie,

 

Tomorrow, I'll part-complete what Dave has done, then temporarily fix it to the deck and temporarily put it back in place.

 

There's still much to do (which I'll do), hence the need to be able to remove it again, but both you and he have done an amazing job. 

 

Thanks once more to both of you.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Tom's certainly clever enough to realise there's a lot more money to be made working with classic cars than train sets......

Except they cost thousands of pounds more than model railways to acquire, even in a beat-up state, Brian, 

 

What price a sort of running, if a bit scabby, E Type Jag? £30,000, £40,000? Tom's is a rare one.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jamie92208]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

Except they cost thousands of pounds more than model railways to acquire, even in a beat-up state, Brian, 

 

What price a sort of running, if a bit scabby, E Type Jag? £30,000, £40,000? Tom's is a rare one.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

One of the team that came to LB in May last year was a test driver for Jaguar and worked on the E type. He then went on to test drive, and write the flying manual, for something rather faster and louder, the Tornado.

 

Jamie

 

[Northmoor]

36 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Except they cost thousands of pounds more than model railways to acquire, even in a beat-up state, Brian, 

 

What price a sort of running, if a bit scabby, E Type Jag? £30,000, £40,000? Tom's is a rare one.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Driving through Shropshire one afternoon a couple of years ago, I passed an Aston DB5 dhc and from memory two Jags, one E-type and one XK140/150; all immaculate.  I remember thinking that this little convoy that had just burbled past was probably a million quids worth of cars.