RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, jwealleans said: The kit was made to fit a Triang chassis, so it'll have been adjusted to suit. I'd bet your chassis is actually for something else altogether. Whatever the Triang chassis was originally designed for? 1 hour ago, Buhar said: As noted that is the Tri-ang, later Hornby standard chassis for 0-6-0Ts and still to be found under such locos in the Railroad range. It's not a wheelbase to be found under any LMS (or constituent) loco. I understood that the Triang 31 mm + 33 mm chassis first appeared under the 3F 0-6-0T - good old 47606, my first engine. Of course it's 1 mm short on both halves for the classic Derby 8'0" + 8'6" wheelbase. It also appeared under the J83 and J52 - for both of which it is 2 mm too long - and various panniers which need not concern us here... EDIT: For completeness, I looked up those Great Western engines - the 5700 Class has the same 15'6" total wheelbase as those North British and Great Northern classes I mentioned. Midland? Small engines? Pah! Edited July 12, 2019 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Wills (later SE Finecast) later did an etched brass chassis as a replacement for the Triang/Hornby chassis, the latter being in common use for a number of kits in that period. Could your chassis be one of those? I had one once, but can't remember the details of it; it may still be available from SEF. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2019 4 hours ago, APOLLO said: I like the Gas holders. Brit15 Thanks, They’re Modelux laser cut kits. Nice kits, but appalling instructions! The wall is from Model railway Scenery - printed paper stuck onto card. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 12, 2019 Thanks for all the answers about the chassis on the J17. I should have guessed that it would be some reason like that. But if it is a specific chassis for the kit, then you would have thought they would have corrected the error at that stage. Anyway, I can live with the difference - it’s not really noticeable in practice. Thanks Tony for the photos. My spectacles look OK I think...unless I’m missing something. According to the green book, only 12 of the class had their buffer beams drilled for snow ploughs, and only five had the tender cab and another five with ‘tender spectacle plates. I think I’ll avoid both of these oddities, and stick with a standard engine - probably a Cambridge one, but I need to find the right photo first. I see see what you mean about the coupling rods. How often is something in 4mm scale made too fine?! Andy 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) Re: Bec J17 The kit in thegreenhowards' post above appears to be the later Bec version as a very close look at the photo appears to indicate it has the correct spectacle shape and the cab roof was more correct on this later version. (Edit: your latest photo posted whilst I was writing my post does indeed show it to be the later Bec version) I rebuilt the earlier Bec version back in the 80s. My father had originally built it in the early 60s before we left the UK. I did at that time continue to use a Triang chassis albeit now fitted with Romfords and eventually a Buhler/Ultrascale motor/gearbox. I also fitted a better chimney and more correct diameter smokebox door. A couple of years ago I was given a box of badly built kit locos which included a Bec J17 but the later version I think - can't check as I'm currently on holiday. I've been thinking about rebuilding this at some stage but as Tony often says one spends a lot of extra time rebuilding something someone else has botched! And there are too many other priorities at present. Maybe the best option for a correct chassis would be to ask PDK as they do what appears to be the old Crownline brass J17 and I know they do sell separate parts as I've had chimneys and domes from them. The chassis maybe in a separate etch of its own? Andrew Edited July 12, 2019 by Woodcock29 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 16 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Andrew, I think 'curious' is a most-apposite description. Obviously, the DJH valve gear proved beyond the original builder (I wonder where it is?), so he (or she) has substituted HD valve gear. At least that's bomb-proof! If I do eventually get it, is anyone interested in that valve gear? Though I've shown this before, just a thank you again for giving me this A1 kit when you visited a couple of years ago. I built the DJH A2 at the same time, and Geoff Haynes painted them both. Regards, Tony. Tony I was very happy you made it into Silurian as that is one of my favourite A1 names. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Woodcock29 said: I was very happy you made it into Silurian And I thought that was a Dr Who monster. ;-) G 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 One thing to bear in mind is that the Bec J17 was adapted in length/wheel spacing (ie splashers) to fit the original Triang chassis. Sourcing another chassis from say PDK, which is probably to scale dimensions, would be a different length and wheel spacing. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 What Stewart said. I have a Crownline J17 and it’s a much larger engine all round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Woodcock29 said: Tony I was very happy you made it into Silurian as that is one of my favourite A1 names. Andrew SILURIAN was a favourite of mine as well, Andrew, However, the last time I saw her, she was withdrawn, along with several of her siblings, on 50A, in October 1965. Very sad, really, that such fine locos had their lives cut short by 'modernisation'. I took her picture, and those of PEREGRINE and BOSWELL (and 62010 which was alongside), along with a couple of V2s on the 'dead' lines. They might well appear in BRILL in the not-too-distant future. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, grahame said: And I thought that was a Dr Who monster. ;-) G No doubt it was, Grahame, However, it's a question of precedence. Silurian is a series of rocks forming a subdivision of the Palaeozoic immediately underlying the Devonian, named as first investigated in the district of the Silures (a people of ancient Britain). SILURIAN is the racehorse which won the 1923 Doncaster Cup. I wonder if William Hartnell thought of those things as the first Dr. Who? Or, did the monsters of that name post-date him? Probably. I once worked with a chap whose knowledge of such matters was staggering. I 'rejoiced' in my own ignorance of the subject! Regards, Tony. Edited July 13, 2019 by Tony Wright typo error 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: No doubt it was, Grahame, However, it's a question of precedence. Silurian is a series of rocks forming a subdivision of the Palaeozoic immediately underlying the Devonian, named as first investigated in the district of the Silures (a people of ancient Britain). Yes, you're right - I know 'coz I passed Geology 'O' level (GCE before they were dumbed down with GCSE) - and if my memory serves me right the Devonians were also a Dr Who race of aliens. But I know little of matters of the turf. ;-) G 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted July 13, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Woodcock29 said: Re: Bec J17 The kit in thegreenhowards' post above appears to be the later Bec version as a very close look at the photo appears to indicate it has the correct spectacle shape and the cab roof was more correct on this later version. (Edit: your latest photo posted whilst I was writing my post does indeed show it to be the later Bec version) I rebuilt the earlier Bec version back in the 80s. My father had originally built it in the early 60s before we left the UK. I did at that time continue to use a Triang chassis albeit now fitted with Romfords and eventually a Buhler/Ultrascale motor/gearbox. I also fitted a better chimney and more correct diameter smokebox door. A couple of years ago I was given a box of badly built kit locos which included a Bec J17 but the later version I think - can't check as I'm currently on holiday. I've been thinking about rebuilding this at some stage but as Tony often says one spends a lot of extra time rebuilding something someone else has botched! And there are too many other priorities at present. Maybe the best option for a correct chassis would be to ask PDK as they do what appears to be the old Crownline brass J17 and I know they do sell separate parts as I've had chimneys and domes from them. The chassis maybe in a separate etch of its own? Andrew 'but as Tony often says one spends a lot of extra time rebuilding something someone else has botched!' How true, Andrew, I wish I could take my own advice at times, in not even trying to rebuild something................. However, I did take it here.......... Speaking of A1s, and specifically DJH A1s, this came my way some little time ago to be sold on behalf of a bereaved family. The builder is unknown (not the deceased) and (I think, though it's not signed) the painter was Larry Goddard. It ran beautifully. However, not even close-inspection is necessary to ascertain that it's a roller-bearing numbered/named one, yet it's built as an 'ordinary' A1 - rectangular axle box keeps and two lubricators. Not only that, the firebox is poorly represented and the cab isn't fixed down properly; there's also a lean on the tender. Since the paint finish is quite good, I left well alone, pointed out the inaccuracies to a friend, and sold it to him for considerably less than the cost of component parts (how much the paint-job was, I have no idea). He's happy with it, and so was the family with regard to what I handed over. Where it's worth my while taking on what someone else has started is where the initial work is good. Another DJH A1. This one was started by Mr Duck Phil (Mallard on RMweb). He'd made most of the bodywork, but the chassis was just little more than just 'looked at'. Thus, I bought it off him, finished off the body and made the chassis. Worth doing, especially after Ian Rathbone painted it? Correctly, this does represent a roller-bearing example (though where's the AWS battery box? My omission). Of course, I much prefer to build something which is from a 'virgin' kit..................... Two more DJH A1s, built entirely by me and painted by Mr. Rathbone. I built this one for a customer, and subsequently resold it for him (for a modest loss!). In hindsight, I should have fitted better bogie wheels. Like on this one, made for myself. Of course, on a layout and running as 'layout locos', then odd anomalies won't be noticed. However, I still try and get things as 'right' as I can, especially knowing professional painting will cover what I've made. This time it's a Crownline A1, painted by Geoff Haynes. How things move on. The point rodding at the south end is now complete, and that girder bridge in the distance is no more! Regards, Tony. Edited July 13, 2019 by Tony Wright to clarify a point 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted July 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, grahame said: Yes, you're right - I know 'coz I passed Geology 'O' level (GCE before they were dumbed down with GCSE) - and if my memory serves me right the Devonians were also a Dr Who race of aliens. But I know little of matters of the turf. ;-) G There's some discussion of this on P1127 of this thread - how things come around! Al 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, jwealleans said: What Stewart said. I have a Crownline J17 and it’s a much larger engine all round. Jonathan I don't have drawing for a J17 and as I'm on holiday at the moment no access to other info like my RCTS Greenies so can you tell me how much longer the footplate is on the Crownline J17 compared with a BEC Kit? Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted July 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2019 Does anyone know how accurate (or not!) the Stelfox J17 is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Apart from a couple of holidays I've also been recently immersed in the world of N/2mm trucks. We're not as lucky as OO/4mm modellers who have a huge range of RTR vehicles to choose from and, therefore, have to hack and bash as best we can. One helpful starting product are the 3D printed cab/tractor units as below. From left to right is a RailNScale Volvo F10 tractor unit and the other two are Soehaven cab only Scania 140/141s. They're quite suitable for the era I'm trying to represent : Anyway here's some of the results although I have posted development of a couple of them before. And none are yet finished - there's still some touching up to do plus glazing, number plates and drivers to add. It should be remembered that N gauge models are very small and the close-up photography is very cruel and revealing, but the scale does allow modelling a more comprehensive vista and the railway in the landscape. First is a Esso tanker made from Soehaven cab mounted on a bashed Tomytec chassis and a heavily modified Tomytec Japanese tanker trailer: Next is a Courage beer tanker used to take bulk beer from the Horsleydown brewery (next to Tower Bridge) to the bottling plant (former Anchor brewery) just behind Borough Market. This is a Soehaven Ford D800 tractor unit with a scratch-built tanker on a heavily modified Tomytec trailer chassis: Next, below, is a flat back comprising a 3D printed cab on a bashed Tomytec tractor unit chassis and a scratch built trailer. Finally is a RailNScale 3D printed Volvo F10 unit. This is just cleaned and painted. I'll not be adding a trailer but will use it as a tractor unit model on the layout. Out of interest the building I've used as a backdrop is a cardboard scratch-built representation of Colechurch house in Duke Street Hill although much compressed and simplified. It is considered a very fine example of brutalist architecture. Here's my model, the bridge leads from/to London Bridge station across the road and the other way passes under the building and joins London Bridge. Typically for me it's another unfinished model: 8 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted July 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2019 A different kind of modelling today- I did a bit of mirror painting, as it saved my dodgy back having to lift and turn several heavy baseboards round in order to see from the other side... it was a bit counter-intuitive at first but is fine once you get used to it! My platforms now all have smart white lines along the edges, and look much better for it. I have become a fan of Tamiya masking tape, as sold for military modellers. I find it works really well for small scale work like this. 10 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitchin Junction Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 9 hours ago, Tony Wright said: SILURIAN was a favourite of mine as well, Andrew, However, the last time I saw her, she was withdrawn, along with several of her siblings, on 50A, in October 1965. Very sad, really, that such fine locos had their lives cut short by 'modernisation'. I took her picture, and those of PEREGRINE and BOSWELL (and 62010 which was alongside), along with a couple of V2s on the 'dead' lines. They might well appear in BRILL in the not-too-distant future. Regards, Tony. I'm certainly appreciative of the fine models, but at least they are powered by relatively harmless modern small electric motors. This particular prototype "Modernisation", at least by bring the country back eventually to mostly electric traction, had far more national benefits that outweighed just losing magnificent pieces of Victorian mechanical machinery technology. Truthfully, I was actually not able to sleep in non-grey sheets until my local commuter line was electrified in the 60's. But on a more serious note, I never met my maternal grandfather. He was a loco driver on the same line, but died in his early 50's from lung disease, caused or exacerbated by his job. I'm sure he was one of the many adversely effected by too much coal dust in their lives. Tim 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 56 minutes ago, Chamby said: A different kind of modelling today- I did a bit of mirror painting, as it saved my dodgy back having to lift and turn several heavy baseboards round in order to see from the other side... it was a bit counter-intuitive at first but is fine once you get used to it! My platforms now all have smart white lines along the edges, and look much better for it. I have become a fan of Tamiya masking tape, as sold for military modellers. I find it works really well for small scale work like this. Useful dodges, Phil, Thanks for showing us. Though I didn't need a mirror to produce the platform edges on LB, I did employ masking tape (of the car-store type). My wife's dainty fingers did the rest. Though the real platform white edges were often applied by a porter using a broad brush and whitewash (with inherent wiggles and dribbles), it's best on a model if they're applied evenly. This shot from four years ago shows how much things have progressed since then. I'm a great believer in the 'sketch-book' approach to representing detail, in this case the divisions between the edging flags. A soft pencil and a square did the trick. And who can tell at 'stand-off' scale? All these pictures and greater explanations appear in my Crowood book. Regards. Tony. 11 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted July 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Hitchin Junction said: I'm certainly appreciative of the fine models, but at least they are powered by relatively harmless modern small electric motors. This particular prototype "Modernisation", at least by bring the country back eventually to mostly electric traction, had far more national benefits that outweighed just losing magnificent pieces of Victorian mechanical machinery technology. Truthfully, I was actually not able to sleep in non-grey sheets until my local commuter line was electrified in the 60's. But on a more serious note, I never met my maternal grandfather. He was a loco driver on the same line, but died in his early 50's from lung disease, caused or exacerbated by his job. I'm sure he was one of the many adversely effected by too much coal dust in their lives. Tim As a daily commuter into Paddington in the ‘’noughties’, I can affirm that the clag produced by HST power cars is at least as bad. My shirt collars were black when I got home each day, and my nose harboured horrible black bogeys too... goodness knows what it does to ones lungs. Whilst I offer my commiserations regarding your grandfather, give me the smell of steam any day, compared to filthy diesel fumes! Edited July 13, 2019 by Chamby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chamby said: and my nose harboured horrible black bogeys too Sometimes there is just too much information..... 2 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted July 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, Chamby said: As a daily commuter into Paddington in the ‘’noughties’, I can affirm that the clag produced by HST power cars is at least as bad. My shirt collars were black when I got home each day, and my nose harboured horrible black bogeys too. Whilst I offer my commiserations regarding your grandfather, give me the smell of steam any day, compared to filthy diesel fumes! If you were in the train, I suspect most of that black was from bus, taxi and truck fumes and not the small amount from the trains. Emissions legislation for automotive diesels was somewhat more relaxed 25 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 After looking again at the two overall shots in my last post, I thought I'd try and get similar views this evening. Though obviously not exactly the same angles (and not the same locos/trains), they do show the amount of progress made on LB in the last few years. It just goes to show what can be achieved by a crack team! 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Hitchin Junction said: I'm certainly appreciative of the fine models, but at least they are powered by relatively harmless modern small electric motors. This particular prototype "Modernisation", at least by bring the country back eventually to mostly electric traction, had far more national benefits that outweighed just losing magnificent pieces of Victorian mechanical machinery technology. Truthfully, I was actually not able to sleep in non-grey sheets until my local commuter line was electrified in the 60's. But on a more serious note, I never met my maternal grandfather. He was a loco driver on the same line, but died in his early 50's from lung disease, caused or exacerbated by his job. I'm sure he was one of the many adversely effected by too much coal dust in their lives. Tim Thanks for your comments, Tim, I've no wish to look back through 'rose-coloured spectacles', but in the case of the A1s, I doubt if they were any less-polluting than their ECML diesel-successors, especially the Deltics. Not only that, they were better as motive power than the likes of the EE Type 4s, so not all was beneficial progress. My paternal grandfather was (fortunately) well-known to me as a boy, and he was a miner. He, too, succumbed too early to 'lung disease', though I expect that had as much to do with his smoking the strongest tobacco I've ever encountered as of his inhalation of coal dust. My uncle, also a miner, lived until his 90s, the difference being that he didn't smoke! Many of my parents' generation (born 100 years ago) and my grandparents' generation (born 130 years ago) were affected by 'industrial diseases', but many, from my own personal observations, perished too early because of addiction to the 'weed'. Regards, Tony. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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