Wright writes.....

[robertcwp]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've asked this question before, but I never learn!

 

Why don't I take my own advice?

 

And, that advice? Never, ever, ever, ever, take on something that's been built by someone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

At the weekend, Rober Carroll very kindly handed over a DJH rebuilt 'MN', 35028 CLAN LINE. 'I don't want anything for it, please sell it for CRUK. Oh, by the way, it doesn't work'. It didn't. 

 

Thank you Robert.

 

It looked well-built, and was very nicely-painted. 

 

Why didn't I just stick £50.00 on it, and sell it as a non-runner? Except, when I got it home and investigated, there was life! 

 

However, the motor (a D11) was out of mesh, and despite all my fiddling, it only staggered along. No matter, thought I. I'll drop a new motor/gearbox combo in, and then it'll be much better, and it'll make more money for the charity. Big mistake!  

 

Where is advice given to GLUE parts of a chassis together? Etched brass frames and etched brass brake rigging - solder, surely? Not in this case! All the brake gear just fell apart, as did the motion support bracket as I started to drop out the wheels. Yes, the outside pull rods had to be taken off, but I (like a dope) assumed they'd be soldered in place - soldered to hangers soldered to the frames. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!  That's better; I needed to shout. 

 

Where do these 'gluists' get their information and advice. From mags? From shows? From the internet? 

 

I'll complete it now, obviously. But why didn't I just 'sell' the problem on to someone else?  

This post caused me to burst out laughing on the train home this evening, leading to odd looks from other passengers. You don't laugh out loud on SWR trains .

 

The so-called professional builder who built it, who is I believe now deceased, was, it turned out, pretty hopeless. It was painted by someone else, who was (and still is) a highly skilled painter.

 

Remember, it's all in a good cause.

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks,

 

But was the maroon used on the 'Westerns' and 'Warships' the same 'red' as used on the Stanier Pacifics in later BR days? It could well have been the same paint for the diesels and carriages, but for the steamers?

 

I've read somewhere that it was crimson lake used on the big 4-6-2s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Swindon did carriages as well as locos so I would expect them to use the same paint. I don't think Crewe did carriages then but it would be interesting to see an ex works Swindon one next to a Crewe one, and a Crewe one next to a maroon pacific.

[The Johnster]

To make anything beyond a subjective comment about the colour would require all 3 locos to be ex-works, in the same location, and photographed by the same camera with the same setting using the same film.  And even then I'd be wary about stating that they were the same, or different, or anything.  Interpreting colour is highly subjective and dependent on ambient light even before people start messing about with cameras and film.  Then you have to allow for the printing process, and the type of paper the image is printed on, or the characteristics of the computer monitor or phone screen it is displayed on, and the ambient light of the room it's viewed in.

[robmcg]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

....

 

Why do folk fight shy of soldering? If any discipline needs be mastered in our craft hobby, it must be soldering. If you can't solder (the generic 'you') then you're going to struggle as a railway modeller.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I disagree there Tony.   You can enjoy being a railway modeller even if you just buy models and 'run' a model railway.  Or construct models with glue. Or both. As I do.

 

Case in point: If I buy a couple of RTR models, assemble some buildings, lay some track and make a nice picture using photo editing I am by your definition somehow struggling to be a railway modeller. Your perfect right to say so, of course, but anyone watching me open the boxes and lay the bits and pieces out might quite reasonably call me a 'railway modeller'.  Even if they were Kitmaster or other marvellous creations.

 

 

Memories of hanging around steam sheds, early 1960s.

 

 

Works for me, and happy to not fit your definition. (Although I cannot solder things easily now I once did it for a living).

 

Cheers

Edited August 14, 2019 by robmcg
added comment and pic

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

To make anything beyond a subjective comment about the colour would require all 3 locos to be ex-works, in the same location, and photographed by the same camera with the same setting using the same film.  And even then I'd be wary about stating that they were the same, or different, or anything.  Interpreting colour is highly subjective and dependent on ambient light even before people start messing about with cameras and film.  Then you have to allow for the printing process, and the type of paper the image is printed on, or the characteristics of the computer monitor or phone screen it is displayed on, and the ambient light of the room it's viewed in.

You're quite right,

 

Towards the end of my 'spotting 'career', at Chester, it might well have been that I saw a maroon Swindon-built 'Western', a maroon Crewe-built 'Western' and an ex-works 'Semi' in crimson lake, all together (though I have no recollection of the event). The Swindon 'Westerns' used to arrive from Shrewsbury on Paddington-Birkenhead expresses, and the Crewe ones came in from the opposite end of the General on running-in turns, as did the 'Semis'. 

 

It's just that my recollection (highly, very and entirely subjective) is that the 'Princess Coronations' in 'lake were a different tint to the maroon carriages they hauled. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

 

I disagree there Tony.   You can enjoy being a railway modeller even if you just buy models and 'run' a model railway.  Or construct models with glue. Or both. As I do.

 

Case in point: If I buy a couple of RTR models, assemble some buildings, lay some track and make a nice picture using photo editing I am by your definition somehow struggling to be a railway modeller. Your perfect right to say so, of course, but anyone watching me open the boxes and lay the bits and pieces out might quite reasonably call me a 'railway modeller'.  Even if they were Kitmaster or other marvellous creations.

 

 

Memories of hanging around steam sheds, early 1960s.

 

 

Works for me, and happy to not fit your definition. (Although I cannot solder things easily now I once did it for a living).

 

Cheers

You make a good point, Rob.

 

However, I don't think I implied that one cannot be a railway modeller if one can't solder, or struggle with soldering. It's just that without mastering the 'black art', how does one........................

 

Successfully wire-up a layout, including all track feeds, sections, control for points and signals, and all switches?

 

Successfully build track, even where a lot of the base components are made of plastic? (Can one glue a point vee together?). 

 

Successfully build an etched brass nickel silver/brass/white metal kit for a loco, carriage, wagon, signal or any engineering feature? 

 

I think what you do with your pictures is interesting (and very clever) but the process is as much-removed from railway modelling to me as is my ever employing DCC (to use which, surely one must be able to solder; unless someone else does all the work!). If you derive pleasure from it (as a form of railway modelling?), then nobody has the right to deny you (or anyone else) the right to do it. However, apart from in the 'visual' sense, your pictures don't have to 'work'. 

 

When I take model railway pictures, I try to make the finished shot look as realistic as possible. It requires realistic (and very well-made) models, of course, but, apart from taking out any background clutter, I employ no 'false' manipulation, such as fake smoke and fake weathering. I honestly, personally don't see the point. For one, it must be very time-consuming; time in which I could be soldering something together!

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

[rowanj]

I know Tony likes an occasional post of the work of folk who follow this thread.

 

Though I'm far from an expert at it. kit-building is my main interest these days, and it allows me to produce authentic scenes like this, The Alexander Models North Tyneside Parcels passes a LRM J25 on the Loco Coal headed north to who knows where - Blyth, perhaps -, while the North Eastern Kits J77 rests in the sidings before picking up a trip to Heaton, Everything here is kit- built. Even the brake van is Airfix/Dapol backdated to the LNER version.

 

I don't recall ever seeing one, although they were still around when I started spotting, but was there a prettier 0-6-0 than the J25?

[richard i]

I see your j25 and raise you either a j6 or a j11. 

Richard

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, richard i said:

I see your j25 and raise you either a j6 or a j11. 

Richard

Surely a Wainwright 'C' in full Chatham regalia trumps the lot! 

[Chamby]

8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Surely a Wainwright 'C' in full Chatham regalia trumps the lot! 

 

OK, I’ll play my joker to beat your trump...  Oliver Bulleid’s Q1, I suggest!

[Dave Hunt]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Surely a Wainwright 'C' in full Chatham regalia trumps the lot! 

 

But the ace of the trumps was a Kirtley 700 class as rebuilt by Johnson but still with a round topped firebox.

 

Dave

[Long John Silver]

I propose the healthy option, the LNWR Cauliflowers, simple, elegant yet rugged in LNWR livery - and one of your five a day. 

[queensquare]

2 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

But the ace of the trumps was a Kirtley 700 class as rebuilt by Johnson but still with a round topped firebox.

 

Dave

 

That would have been my choice. One, or more likely a pair, are very high on my build list for Bath.

 

Jerry

[rowanj]

50 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

OK, I’ll play my joker to beat your trump...  Oliver Bulleid’s Q1, I suggest!

Of course. The Q1 goes without saying......

 

Interesting that people find small 0-6-0's designed as pure workhorses "attractive" - I do too. I like the look of the J6 and J11, but they are "chunkier" than the J25. No votes for a J15?

[landscapes]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

You make a good point, Rob.

 

However, I don't think I implied that one cannot be a railway modeller if one can't solder, or struggle with soldering. It's just that without mastering the 'black art', how does one........................

 

Successfully wire-up a layout, including all track feeds, sections, control for points and signals, and all switches?

 

Successfully build track, even where a lot of the base components are made of plastic? (Can one glue a point vee together?). 

 

Successfully build an etched brass nickel silver/brass/white metal kit for a loco, carriage, wagon, signal or any engineering feature? 

 

I think what you do with your pictures is interesting (and very clever) but the process is as much-removed from railway modelling to me as is my ever employing DCC (to use which, surely one must be able to solder; unless someone else does all the work!). If you derive pleasure from it (as a form of railway modelling?), then nobody has the right to deny you (or anyone else) the right to do it. However, apart from in the 'visual' sense, your pictures don't have to 'work'. 

 

When I take model railway pictures, I try to make the finished shot look as realistic as possible. It requires realistic (and very well-made) models, of course, but, apart from taking out any background clutter, I employ no 'false' manipulation, such as fake smoke and fake weathering. I honestly, personally don't see the point. For one, it must be very time-consuming; time in which I could be soldering something together!

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

I do fully agree with your soldering comments, the thought of soldering up hand built turnout points scare the daylights out of me.

 

At present I have 14 points to solder with another 15 still to be built once phase two and three of my Haymarket layout are completed, and to do this all I need is an additional 10 feet in length more space to accommodate the five additional baseboards.

 

Regards

 

David

[69843]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Why do folk fight shy of soldering? If any discipline needs be mastered in our craft hobby, it must be soldering. If you can't solder (the generic 'you') then you're going to struggle as a railway modeller.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I think one of the biggest things that makes people shy away is because of all the different types of solder/ing that exist, as well as the associated temperature variants, it makes people rather nervous about the whole prospect of soldering. In reality it's just a slightly more elaborate form of gluing, with the only difference being you have to 'mix' the glue to create the bond. Having access to the right tools is also a major plus in this area.

Clinics at shows teaching soldering techniques are an excellent way for people to learn in a forgiving environment, and to share tips and help each-other out. The main shows here in Sydney typically include a few clinics within a little area with tables set up, including a soldering clinic, which is a great way to learn tricks. Bringing your own item is encouraged, though there's generally a few items around to learn with. And as an all day stand in the middle of the show there's no limit on time.

Also, a bit of personal advice: When you're a redhead, don't accidentally burn your hair with a silver soldering torch. The jokes get old quickly....

[Jol Wilkinson]

It is rather ironic that there are as many, if not more, adhesives for particular applications, as there are solders for different uses. Equally, the same basic preparation rules apply, cleanliness, good fit of parts, appropriate glue/solder, etc. if you want to achieve a robust and neat joint. In both cases, usually the thinner the layer of adhesive or solder, the stronger the joint.

 

Adhesives often come with more comprehensive instruction sheets, perhaps that's why some people prefer to use them.

[cctransuk]

12 minutes ago, 69843 said:

I think one of the biggest things that makes people shy away is because of all the different types of solder/ing that exist, as well as the associated temperature variants, it makes people rather nervous about the whole prospect of soldering.

 

It is true that there are plenty of solders for different applications, and I probably have the majority of them.

 

Nonetheless, I find that 90% of the soldering that I do uses good old electrician's resin cored solder. Not because that is the 'correct' solder to use, but because it is nearest to hand and works.

 

I even use it for soldering whitemetal if I am in a lazy and optimistic mood !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[stewartingram]

Now here are a couple of thoughts for Tony...

 

How about using a hot glue gun, is that close to soldering?

Years ago , I remember reading an article in one of the mags - was it MRC? A loco kit was assemble, wait for it........using Plastic Padding! (For those who don't know it, a 2 part filler much used on cars back in the 60s & 70s, it may still be available).

 

Stewart  

[Tony Wright]

Two illustrations why I consider soldering to be essential for construction, and also my (limited) use of glue.

 

 

 

DJH supply plugged double chimneys. They must be opened out.

 

I soldered the chimney on to this Semi's smokebox from the inside, drilled a pilot hole with a pin chuck, then opened out the orifices to the required diameter, in stages, using a drill held in a tap wrench (so much easier to control) then a tapered broach. Believe me, had I just glued the chimney on (even with epoxy), it would have sheared off with this treatment. I know - a sadder, but wiser, man! 

 

On the other hand, the small outside steampipes are just superglued in place. They carry no load, and when the deflectors are fitted, they're all but invisible. 

 

I'm just about to solder on the double chimney of a DJH A1. 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

My E1 class has acquired some brakes:

 

 

These were obtained from the Mainly Trains etch for Southern brake gear but to be honest I'm sure any old etch would have done, as the ones I ended up selecting were

supposedly  LBSC tender brake shoes, which seemed the closest match to the size and shape required. They're representative rather than accurate, but better than no brake shoes at all.

 

At Railwells I obtained (along with David Maidment's book on Maunsell 4-4-0s) some nice brass bits for SE&CR style clack valves so the rest of the pipework will be attended to shortly. That rear cab step needs some careful filling and filing to blend in with the curve of the footplate, too.

 

There's not much here that isn't soldered. The handrails are glued in, which is my preference, and the smokebox is also glued, but everything else apart from the pickup pads, tender bearings, and the loco-tender coupling is soldered. I use the same Carr's green label flux for both normal (145) and low-melt solder, and the same iron, adjusting between "6" and "4" on the temperature dial, and cleaning between applications. For the heavy brass parts of the chassis, I used a 70 W gas iron but this is the first kit that's required it. I've since discovered that the gas iron is brilliant for layout wiring because you don't have to lug the rest of the iron and power lead around.

 

However, in defense of adhesives, my first two locomotives had glued bodies, and nothing's ever come off them, nor is showing any signs of it! They probably took longer to assemble, but when handling them I can't feel any difference to the soldered ones.

 

Al

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

7 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Now here are a couple of thoughts for Tony...

 

How about using a hot glue gun, is that close to soldering?

Years ago , I remember reading an article in one of the mags - was it MRC? A loco kit was assemble, wait for it........using Plastic Padding! (For those who don't know it, a 2 part filler much used on cars back in the 60s & 70s, it may still be available).

 

Stewart  

A hot glue gun?

 

Never used one.

 

Plastic Padding?

 

That makes more of a stink than flux fumes!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[MPR]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A hot glue gun?

 

Never used one.

 

I can’t think of a good use for one on locomotives (except, maybe, for securing ballast weights) but they are great for rapidly fixing scenic  formers - using cheap foam board the hot glue partially melts the core and then sticks hard to the card skins. 

Much less soggy than PVA...

[Clive Mortimore]

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Why even try them, Clive? 

 

Show me a better method of joining etched brass/nickel silver/white metal components than solder (or screwing/bolting) and I'll consider it. 

 

Unlike you, I don't work in plastic (well, hardly ever), so to use adhesives for securing metal components is anathema to me. Rather like you 'soldering' bits of Plastikard together? 

 

Of course I use adhesives at times - fixing pick-up pads for instance, or securing small, non-load-bearing parts, but that's all. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.   

Hello Tony

 

Even gluing plastic kits can have its downside. In the past I have used my normal Revel Contacta solvent to put together a DC kits DMU. A few weeks later I went to do some more work on it as I picked it up, it fell apart.  I was back to stage one in the building process. They are made of a very strange plastic that needs a particular solvent.

 

I have in the past used a soldering iron to weld plastic together, repairing some broken toys and household items, not modelling. I had to be quick and I am not too sure the fumes where healthy.

 

You mention fixing pick up pads with adhesive, that is something I have had go ping more than once where the sticky stuff ain't sticky anymore. The next chassis I solder up I am going to use double sided PCB and solder the top side to the chassis.

[mullie]

Hot glue gun; a number of uses including:

• Laying wire in tube point control.
• A small  blob  will hold pieces of wood together while PVA dries if screws are not needed or desired. Very useful if using odd shapes and angles. Can be weighted whilst drying and won't slip.
• Fix mounting board card to wood for back scene purposes. 

These are the ones I can currently think of, I'm sure others can add to this list.

 

A vote for a J15 here.

 

Martyn