Wright writes.....

[Allegheny1600]

That took longer than expected, sorry!

 

 

 

 

I am certainly nothing like a 'master craftsman', merely a bumbling amateur but I hope this goes some way to showing that plastic can be made to look good!

Cheers,

John.

[Dave Hunt]

The main issue I would have using brick papers is how to simulate the small queen closer bricks at the ends of courses at the corners. With embossed plastic sheets you can fill in the mortar courses at the ends and then scribe the new bricks and if the face of the plastic sheet is sanded down as Tim describes the appearance is OK. Does anyone have an idea how to simulate the queen closers on paper apart from drawing the whole wall on a computer?

 

Dave 

[grahame]

34 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

I have to argue against the like of Metcalfe kits and so on.

Why?

Most folk simply assemble them as is, leaving the flat surfaces completely without texture or additional colouring AND also leaving those dreadful uncoloured corners, ugh! I can't stand to see them, sorry.

 

 

Yep, I agree. I also have a 'thing' about Metcalfe building kits, not least because they have a simple basic commercial architectural theme and are regularly seen on so many layouts without any adaption or improvement. They're a kind of thoughtless me-too go to.

 

Details like sills, lintels and so on are printed and there are no gutters and downpipes (which are rarely added). And those oversize rolled paper chimney pots and gross dark outline printed roof tiles . . . . Plus they have a semi-gloss finish which no-one seems to matt down.

 

G

[queensquare]

23 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Yep, I agree. I also have a 'thing' about Metcalfe building kits, not least because they have a simple basic commercial architectural theme and are regularly seen on so many layouts without any adaption or improvement. They're a kind of thoughtless me-too go to.

 

Details like sills, lintels and so on are printed and there are no gutters and downpipes (which are rarely added). And those oversize rolled paper chimney pots and gross dark outline printed roof tiles . . . . Plus they have a semi-gloss finish which no-one seems to matt down.

 

G

 

Although with a bit of work.......... the red brick terrace with the Yardley advert on the end in the pictures of Totnes is Metcalfe, albeit somewhat breathed on!

 

Jerry

[Barry Ten]

14 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

 

 

Details like sills, lintels and so on are printed and there are no gutters and downpipes (which are rarely added). And those oversize rolled paper chimney pots and gross dark outline printed roof tiles . . . . Plus they have a semi-gloss finish which no-one seems to matt down.

 

G

 

I don't understand why so many modellers seem happy with those terrible roof tiles on the Metcalfe buildings.

 

They can be tarted up quite nicely, I feel, with a bit of work. This one of their older models, which I think is based

on a Settle & Carlisle prototype. As it came, it didn't have glazed windows, just black paper impressions. I redid

all the windows, redid the roof, then went over the stonework, scribing it lightly and then repainting in various

shades. I also Great-Westernised it by repainting in light and dark stone, and added sliding doors.

 

 

 

It still needs some detailing and reworking, but it fits in quite well with my other buildings. Would it have been quicker and more accurate to scratchbuild an authentic GWR

goods shed, instead of this mongrel? Probably, but my wife built the original for me about 20 years ago, when all I wanted was a generic goods shed for my train set, so I like having it on the layout even if it's not one for the purists.

 

Al

[Re6/6]

Nice work Al!

[Tetarch60]

jwealleans The J17 kit sold by PDK, is that the same as the Crownline one you mentioned?

[jwealleans]

It's a refined version of the same kit. 

[Tetarch60]

On 27/07/2019 at 19:18, Buhar said:

The pink of Shap (there is also blue quarried there) and the red of Lanark are both the result of volcanic activity.  There is a chunk of red sandstone in between, so I think they're occurrences rather than a seam.  Also that's pretty old stuff and I think bits of what are now the British Isles were wandering around near the equator at the time and possibly not then joined up.

 

Cloburn say they've been supplying railways since 1896!  They were in Carstairs which is Caley territory (NB incursions notwithstanding) and there was a wagonway to Cairngryffe Quarry nearby that appears to pre-date the excavations at Cloburn.

 

There's nothing about red granite in the True Line (Caley Journal) except to say the Caley often used crushed slag from ironworkings as well as limestone and granite.  From a comment in TL from Don Rowland, it seems the L&NWR/LMS (Western) used the Shap pink.

In my forty odd year career on the Railway, ballast that was seen/handled/off loaded out of wagons: red,pink,green,grey and silvery black. this depended on wether it was granite,slag from an iron works or loco ashes. So there is scope for varying the colour of track ballast on a model.

[mullie]

Re: modelling with brick paper; how about:

 

and

 

 

[PMP]

I like brick paper, I think it can capture colours and textures to good effect. One area where they can be let down is if used with other materials, if the colour balance between the paper and the layout colours isn’t handled well they can look very out of place. My favourites are the Howard’s Scenics kits, some of mine shown here, 

Edited August 15, 2019 by PMP

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

The main issue I would have using brick papers is how to simulate the small queen closer bricks at the ends of courses at the corners. With embossed plastic sheets you can fill in the mortar courses at the ends and then scribe the new bricks and if the face of the plastic sheet is sanded down as Tim describes the appearance is OK. Does anyone have an idea how to simulate the queen closers on paper apart from drawing the whole wall on a computer?

 

Dave 

Hi Dave

 

You are right that using a commercial brick paper or even embossed plastic card most modellers do not model the queen closers.

 

Conversely, how many people notice what type of brick course the building is made of. I say this because I extended a building width wise, the front is Flemish bond and the rear is stretcher bond.

Only because I didn't have any Flemish bond embossed plastic card at the time.

 

No one ever commented on the types of brickwork.

People did look closely as I had scratchbuilt the interior, including the sausages and chips Doris has on the hot plate.

 

 

[Jamiel]

Interesting talk about brick paper, I fully agree about the depth mortar courses, but personally I feel there are a few things that make me always use the plastic sheets.

The first is that the paper printed sheets are not as matt as painted plastic sheet, and when the light catches it at a bad angle the sheen looks unreal.

 

When bricks are laid they will have very slightly different angles to the light, even a tiny offset makes the light fall irregularly on them, which is also contributes to an even sheen looking unreal.

Unless the modelling is exceptional the joins between sheets show knife sharp edges. If you take a cutter and mark in the joins at the corners on plastic brickwork it makes for a very pleasing join. To be honest this is also the case for plastic moulded bricks.

 

Many models using brick paper have bends over joins, or show bubbles of glue behind that make for a curve to the surface that does not feel correct.

 

Perhaps the biggest thing for me is weathering, I am making a very dirty northern town, so there are layers of dirt liberally added. Perhaps airbrushing on dirt would improve a lot of paper brickwork.

There is often something too regular about the colour variation of the bricks in brick paper. This probably is good for newer buildings, but less so for dirty and old ones.

 

With plastic brickwork, I like being able to dab in a very thinned bit of mortar colour to run down the grooves and look like repointed/repaired mortar. I also like the solidity of working with plastic, but then I put it over a thin ply base which makes for a very strong build.

 

Adding decorative brickwork is also easier with plastic brick card, such as the patterned edges near the eves on the image below. It is also easy to add junction boxes and wiring made from extruded plastic sprue pulled over a candle, and old military modeller technique.

 

I love CF MRC, as they have addressed the rounded edges of (many) commercial plastic brick sheets. Sanding them down is an excellent idea, and the zinc cut sheets look amazing.

 

Perhaps one area where using paper sheets could be exploited to great effect would be to photograph the building, or one in the same condition and compile those photographs in Photoshop or a similar programme to give an exact representation of the surface and colour (dependant on the lighting, exposure, stock and other things that affect the capture of colour and contrast).

 

3D printing is an area that is developing, again it probably has a too deep mortar course on many models I have seen, but it can look excellent on aged buildings.

 

Here is a photo of work in progress on my department store that I posted a few images in the thread a month or two ago. This is a mix of Walthers models kit (with moulded bricks) bashed and slater plastic brick sheet with some of the techniques I mentioned incorporated like the junction box and wiring, as well as repointed mortar. It also shows a negative where I have joined two sections of the original model and lost the brickwork, some of this is made to look like repaired bomb damage which has been concreted over, but some of it looks like a model join.

 

I suspect that like DC and DCC this is something that will divide people’s views, and on which people have a lot of personal attachment to. I also think that as with most modelling that when it is done well whatever method you are using it looks good.

 

Jamie

 

[Chuffer Davies]

On 14/08/2019 at 17:19, Tony Wright said:

I have (yet another) request, please.

 

Does anyone know of a source of the tiny fibre washers which fit over Romford/Markits crank pins; the ones which act as perfect solder insulators? 

 

They're perfect in assembling valve gear, and I'm down to my last few. Romford made them, but, having phoned Markits just now, they're no longer stocked.

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony,

You might like to try my technique for the same situation.  I cut a small square of kitchen foil and having used a pin to just start a hole I then push the foil over the crank pin and the crank pin nut on top of that.  The foil seems to make a perfect seal preventing any solder passing through it and of course the aluminium won’t attach to the solder.  The foil can then be torn away afterwards.  I’ve had 100% success with this technique so far.  

Frank

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, queensquare said:

In the hands of a master craftsman card, brick paper, acrylics and water colours can give stunning results.

Totnes, JBS.

 

 

 

 

Jerry

Wonderful stuff, Jerry,

 

And how brilliant to see it (and John) again over last weekend. 

 

Totnes is a modern classic indeed! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

Brick paper Denny style.

 

 

Merco brickpaper, stuck to card and with he horizontal courses gently scribed to give the tiniest relief.

 

Modern printed brick is very good, especially some of the photo based ones. I am using some on a 2mm model of the goods shed at Yeovil Town and the colours are far better than I could paint.

 

My worry is that the trend for home printed downloaded brick leads to a distinct possibility of fading.

 

Time will tell!

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Brick paper Denny style.

 

 

Merco brickpaper, stuck to card and with he horizontal courses gently scribed to give the tiniest relief.

 

Modern printed brick is very good, especially some of the photo based ones. I am using some on a 2mm model of the goods shed at Yeovil Town and the colours are far better than I could paint.

 

My worry is that the trend for home printed downloaded brick leads to a distinct possibility of fading.

 

Time will tell!

If anything has stood the test of time with regards to looking natural and realistic, it's Buckingham, Tony. 

 

I share your comment about home-printed brickwork, because many of the inks used (despite costing a load of dosh) are fugitive. 

 

What a wonderful selection of building techniques we've just been shown on here today? Great work, and thanks for sharing. I think it's the diversity of this thread which makes it so appealing. 

 

I've only just got back to the computer this evening, having spent most of the day at 'Irwell Towers', in Clophill. Chris Hawkins and I have been discussing future books, and I've been commissioned to write The Book of the B1s, in three volumes. What a wonderful way to spend retirement!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Dave Hunt]

Chuffer's technique for preventing solder from gumming up the works is exactly what I have always used and works very well.

 

Thanks for the words of wisdom Clive as well as the photographs of that lovely building interior - sausage and chips, yum yum (but tragic for my diet!) . I quite agree that most, if not all, people would not notice the brick bond, let alone whether there were queen closers or not, but as Compound 2632 has written in another thread, there is one person who would know and that is the one who built it. And since Tricky of this parish brought such things to my attention it is a feature of brickwork that I tend to notice. I also have a lot of agreement with Jamiel concerning the advantages of brick embossed plastic sheet and for the time being at least I'll probably stick to using it, sanding down the surface as Tim suggests and using filler and scribing to simulate the closers. However, I will quite possibly do some experimentation with paper too.

 

I also agree with what Jamiel writes, ' As with most modelling, when it is done well whatever method you are using it looks good.' And I have to say that both his and your models do look good.

 

Dave

 

PS Just seen the photograph of Buckingham that Tony has posted. Was that man a genius or what?

Edited August 15, 2019 by Dave Hunt

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

Chuffer's technique for preventing solder from gumming up the works is exactly what I have always used and works very well.

 

Thanks for the words of wisdom Clive as well as the photographs of that lovely building interior - sausage and chips, yum yum (but tragic for my diet!) . I quite agree that most, if not all, people would not notice the brick bond, let alone whether there were queen closers or not, but as Compound 2634 has written in another thread, there is one person who would know and that is the one who built it. And since Tricky of this parish brought such things to my attention it is a feature of brickwork that I tend to notice. I also have a lot of agreement with Jamiel concerning the advantages of brick embossed plastic sheet and for the time being at least I'll probably stick to using it, sanding down the surface as Tim suggests and using filler and scribing to simulate the closers. However, I will quite possibly do some experimentation with paper too.

 

I also agree with what Jamiel writes, ' As with most modelling, when it is done well whatever method you are using it looks good.' And I have to say that both his and your models do look good.

 

Dave

 

PS Just seen the photograph of Buckingham that Tony has posted. Was that man a genius or what?

Hi Dave

 

You mentioned the most important person, the geezer who modelled it. That goes for every thing we as modellers do, we should not be satisfying others with our endeavors but making things for our pleasure. Surely self satisfaction knowing what you have included (or not included) is important even if others never notice. 

 

On the other hand it is quite surprising what modellers leave out, even on well modelled layouts. I was at a show last year where there was a lovely steam depot, with a host of GWR locos. I asked my mate "Can you see what is missing". His answer was "I cannot see a Star class loco". Neither could I but that wasn't the issue, it had no coal stage. After I told him we had to go back for a second look, no one hadn't appeared in the ten minutes we were away nor had a Star class loco.

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Dave

 

You mentioned the most important person, the geezer who modelled it. That goes for every thing we as modellers do, we should not be satisfying others with our endeavors but making things for our pleasure. Surely self satisfaction knowing what you have included (or not included) is important even if others never notice. 

 

On the other hand it is quite surprising what modellers leave out, even on well modelled layouts. I was at a show last year where there was a lovely steam depot, with a host of GWR locos. I asked my mate "Can you see what is missing". His answer was "I cannot see a Star class loco". Neither could I but that wasn't the issue, it had no coal stage. After I told him we had to go back for a second look, no one hadn't appeared in the ten minutes we were away nor had a Star class loco.

'we should not be satisfying others with our endeavors'

 

A perfectly sound bit of reasoning, Clive..........................

 

Until we physically exhibit what we've made, write about what we've made and post pictures of what we've made on the internet, don't you think? Especially if we're attempting to help others. 

 

That's what I always endeavour to do. Whether I succeed or not is always open to conjecture, but if 'our' work is shown (via whatever media), then that comes with responsibilities.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

I have to argue against the like of Metcalfe kits and so on.

Why?

Most folk simply assemble them as is, leaving the flat surfaces completely without texture or additional colouring AND also leaving those dreadful uncoloured corners, ugh! I can't stand to see them, sorry.

 

8 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Yep, I agree. I also have a 'thing' about Metcalfe building kits, not least because they have a simple basic commercial architectural theme and are regularly seen on so many layouts without any adaption or improvement. They're a kind of thoughtless me-too go to.

 

Details like sills, lintels and so on are printed and there are no gutters and downpipes (which are rarely added). And those oversize rolled paper chimney pots and gross dark outline printed roof tiles . . . . Plus they have a semi-gloss finish which no-one seems to matt down.

 

7 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I don't understand why so many modellers seem happy with those terrible roof tiles on the Metcalfe buildings.

This all seems a bit harsh to me. Metcalfe kits are great as a starting point (and, if you are a beginner or happy with the result, finishing point), not least because of the consistency between kits that makes them ideal for cutting and shutting. As Jerry has pointed out with respect to John B-S's work, they can form the basis for some really excellent modelling.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, queensquare said:

In the hands of a master craftsman card, brick paper, acrylics and water colours can give stunning results.

Totnes, JBS.

 

 

 

 

Jerry

The transition of the river between 2D and 3D is absolutely brilliant.

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

If anything has stood the test of time with regards to looking natural and realistic, it's Buckingham, Tony. 

 

I share your comment about home-printed brickwork, because many of the inks used (despite costing a load of dosh) are fugitive. 

 

What a wonderful selection of building techniques we've just been shown on here today? Great work, and thanks for sharing. I think it's the diversity of this thread which makes it so appealing. 

 

I've only just got back to the computer this evening, having spent most of the day at 'Irwell Towers', in Clophill. Chris Hawkins and I have been discussing future books, and I've been commissioned to write The Book of the B1s, in three volumes. What a wonderful way to spend retirement!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I’ll look forward to that. Three volumes sounds like a serious piece of work - should do the class justice! 

 

Are you still planning another blue diesel book?

 

Andy

[grahame]

13 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

 

 

This all seems a bit harsh to me. Metcalfe kits are great as a starting point (and, if you are a beginner or happy with the result, finishing point), 

 

Not harsh AFAIC, just personal opinion. For me far too many layouts have basic Metcalfe kits that haven't been breathed on and/or made to fit the scene. Yes, they may be okay as a starting point and beginners may be happy with them simply built and finished as supplied, but that does appear to apply to an awful lot of layouts at exhibitions (excepting the more specialist finer scale shows).

 

There seems to be very few Metcalfe kits that get any improvement treatment (although there are a few such as on Totnes). Do most modellers who have advanced beyond beginner stage not use them, or perhaps they don't bother with them? In N/2mm scale I often hear/read that they are considered to be overscale.

 

Just my tuppence worth.

 

G

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

'we should not be satisfying others with our endeavors'

 

A perfectly sound bit of reasoning, Clive..........................

 

Until we physically exhibit what we've made, write about what we've made and post pictures of what we've made on the internet, don't you think? Especially if we're attempting to help others. 

 

That's what I always endeavour to do. Whether I succeed or not is always open to conjecture, but if 'our' work is shown (via whatever media), then that comes with responsibilities.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

I model for myself. I like to share with others what I have built, OK what I am building because I never finish anything.  If I inspire someone then wonderful. If I make someone laugh at my pile of junk, that's not a problem because I have enjoyed what I have done. I never think "I have to build it this way and include this to please Mr Critic". Stuff him, I am the one who has had the fun bodging it. Having said that for my own personal satisfaction I try to get things correct and to the best of my abilities.

 

I don't think anyone noticed the right design of Western Region fuel pump as seen on my layout Pig Lane (Western Region) at Alley Pally or my point levers were facing the right way (so many layouts have them facing as to put the chap pulling them in danger), I know they are right, but right only for me.