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Wright writes.....


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2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Jason,

 

Quite so - though I have never claimed, nor will I ever claim to be an expert.

 

The 'IGNORE' button continues to do it's good work; I simply miss anything that Rob may post that is not an 'altered image'.

 

I can live with that.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Where and what's the 'ignore' button, please?

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6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Where and what's the 'ignore' button, please?

Hi

 

Hover the mouse over the username of a poster and it brings up a window. At the bottom there is an option to ignore all posts from that user.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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1 hour ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

Hover the mouse over the username of a poster and it brings up a window. At the bottom there is an option to ignore all posts from that user.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

What he said.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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7 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

May I humbly offer a pair of great spotted woodpeckers? The one on the left is a juvenile, the other is an adult male.

 

 

Modern image:  this green liveried class is progressively spreading throughout the Home Counties...

 

 

P3180182.jpg

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Pleased to report that Geoff West and I operated Little Bytham's 57-move train sequence almost perfectly today. I say almost, because right at the end I neglected to throw the right switch. 

 

No locos smoked, none made 'chuffing' noises and there wasn't the slightest evidence of computer-control or manipulation. 

 

Geoff brought two kit-built K3s, one needing pick-ups. Pick-ups were duly made, and away it went; just like other - perfectly!

 

Thanks for your most generous donation for CRUK, Geoff.  

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Can I offer a garden bird sighting from a couple of days ago.  Our village was visited by a flock of Storks migrating south who perched on any high object they could find. They chose the high voltage cables that cross our garden and with 6' wingspans were spectacular coming into land.  No earth faults were detected.

P8230990.JPG.1e77bec41762761d2af641fa10c422ef.JPGThree or four then roosted on each pylon and a lot more on the silo at the other end of the village.   The pylon you can see above is next to the railway shed.

Meantime some modelling is ongoing.  I am part way through painting a 2F and a 2-4-0 one in Black the other in lined red and black.   A friend has offered me a day's instruction in lining. I have found a bow pen but need to find a Bob Moore pen that is somewhere in the shed.   Hopefully I will be able to post some pictures in due course.

 

Jamie

P8230996.JPG

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I don't know if this will count to real twitchers, but I've just ordered nameplates for Guillemot, Sparrow Hawk and Kingfisher. All these birds were once common around Gateshead,  though the last flew down from Edinburgh." Kingfisher" will adorn a Wills A4 on Comet chassis when I get round to building it- using solder, of course.

John

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5 hours ago, rowanj said:

I don't know if this will count to real twitchers, but I've just ordered nameplates for Guillemot, Sparrow Hawk and Kingfisher. All these birds were once common around Gateshead,  though the last flew down from Edinburgh." Kingfisher" will adorn a Wills A4 on Comet chassis when I get round to building it- using solder, of course.

John

John, other than liking your post above. I am thinking about what name I will be giving the A4's that I am slowly building. One is a finney kit which the tender is comming along nicely but I have yet to start the loco..... I have even committed to build another.  Though the problem (not that it is a big one) is deciding on which names. Obviously above were allocated to Gateshead  I would expected though that most A4's would have been seen at times along the full length of the ECML. My interest is during the LNER period around York so I would guess most could or would be seen!

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DougN said:

John, other than liking your post above. I am thinking about what name I will be giving the A4's that I am slowly building. One is a finney kit which the tender is comming along nicely but I have yet to start the loco..... I have even committed to build another.  Though the problem (not that it is a big one) is deciding on which names. Obviously above were allocated to Gateshead  I would expected though that most A4's would have been seen at times along the full length of the ECML. My interest is during the LNER period around York so I would guess most could or would be seen!

 

 

 

 

This is an issue I too am facing with my layout, located north of Newcastle, and I would be interested in views from others. While it's true A4's were seen on the length of the route, in general, Haymarket loco worked south and Kings Cross north and were changed at Newcastle for return trips. Gateshead loco s worked both ways. The only real exception would be the non stop Elzabethan..

Strangly enough,the majority of BR era photos of A4 trains to and from Edinburgh are Haymarket locos, and to the south, Kings Cross ones. Gateshead seems to have had an ambivalent relationship with its A4's. 

So for York, I think Kings Cross and Gateshead loco s would predominate ,in that order, with Haymarket based loco s a great for the spotters. In my books around York, there are a surprising number of photos of 60008.

 

Other views welcome

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Hornby did (if you can find one) the A4 tender with the curved rear on their Silver versions and maybe on other versions as well . I much prefer the Hornby versions ,simply because the white metal version in particular have poor detail and weigh a Ton.

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2 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I'm very glad I've never had to open that particular can of worms.  Many people refer to this series of articles by Mel Haigh of the SNGLPT for guidance on A4 tenders - do you have any observations on its accuracy, Tony?

Good morning Jonathan,

 

I must admit I've never heard of the gentleman you mention (no doubt, he's never heard of me), so I'll have to read what you posted. 

 

I cannot claim to have done more than a little personal research regarding A4 tenders, and most of my conclusions have come from the study of prototype pictures. These are frequently at odds with the established 'works'. For instance, no published journal ever notes that QUICKSILVER once towed a 1928 corridor tender. Yet, pictures exist (at least two) of this being the case. And why, in 1955, was the BR device on 60014's tender not centrally-positioned? I've never seen that noted, nor mention of the out-of-parallel bottom lining on the tenders of 60010 and 60012 for a short time in the '50s. 

 

Can of worms? Indeed!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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3 minutes ago, micklner said:

Hornby did (if you can find one) the A4 tender with the curved rear on their Silver versions and maybe on other versions as well . I much prefer the Hornby versions ,simply because the white metal version in particular have poor detail and weigh a Ton.

As you state, Mick,

 

'if you can find' one. 

 

I've no idea whether Hornby supplies tenders separately and I admit the white metal tenders are heavy. I have to say in my case 'So what?' If the difference between my locos hauling a heavy train or not is the weight of the tender then they're not much use to me. So, they do - pulling a tender weighing a ton or not. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

As you state, Mick,

 

'if you can find' one. 

 

I've no idea whether Hornby supplies tenders separately and I admit the white metal tenders are heavy. I have to say in my case 'So what?' If the difference between my locos hauling a heavy train or not is the weight of the tender then they're not much use to me. So, they do - pulling a tender weighing a ton or not. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tenders are available via eBay ,patience is needed on occasions !!. You might need to buy a complete spares/repairs Loco to get the Tender you need.

 

Hornby have a very strange ideas on spares , no bodies at all and some chassis parts and motors ( but not all e.g they will sell a bogie but not the bracket to fit it to the chassis!!) but not the actual chassis castings, no idea why other than perhaps 1. cost of storing and 2. they would rather sell complete locos than aid modellers to build variations. Other than storage costs in my opinion they are losing a lot money, goodwill  and potential buyers o f the actual locos, many people may think why buy the item if I cannot do repairs if it is damaged. I have found Bachmann much more helpful   with spares availability.

 

I agree in your case "so what" but the vast majority of people on here as said on numerous occasions before don't need such weight in train or the extra wear and tear on motors and chassis's such pulling entails  !!

 

Each to their own needs !!

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Just a little point about A4s and their names, in response to the recent posts.

 

Before embarking on making any model of Gresley's streamlined masterpiece, do check which tender is supplied in your kit(s). 

 

Though there were a few months of exceptions, for most of their illustrious careers (until all the survivors finally lived in Scotland), the 35 A4s (34 after one was destroyed in an air raid on York) were shedded at three depots - Kings Cross, Gateshead and Haymarket. The A4s at Kings Cross had both corridor and non-corridor tenders (some switched around), those at Gateshead towed non-corridor tenders and all those at Haymarket corridor tenders. It's not as simple as that, though. The original 1928 corridor tenders, built for the A1s/A3s (beading, flat back and pronounced turn-in at the front edge of the sides) all went eventually to A4s. Some, however, had a flange welded to the base of the soleplate to carry the stainless steel strips adorning the 'Coronation'/'West Riding' locos. Three of the 1928 tenders had their rears cut-down for the 1948 Exchanges - those behind 60022, 60033 and 60034 (all 34A-allocated). A streamlined corridor tender type was built new in 1935, exclusively for the A4s, and continued to be built up to 1937. This sort had no beading, a radiused rear and a shallow turn-in at the front. Some of these originally carried the stainless steel adornments. Finally, there was the 1937 streamlined non-corridor type. This had a narrower tank than the corridor type, no beading, flat back and there was a flange along the bottom edge of the tank (because of the narrower tank). Some A1s/A3s got these tenders in exchange for their corridor types going to new A4s. Three of these tenders had the extra strip - those behind 60001, 60002 and 60507 (after the last-mentioned received the tender off the wrecked A4). Gateshead's A4s only ever towed the streamlined non-corridor tenders and Haymarket's always had corridor tenders, of both basic types.

 

Beware the published 'standard' works on these things, because the RCTS, Yeadon and Coster contain errors! 

 

As for which manufacturer makes which tender, as far as I know nobody (in 4mm) has ever made the iconic 1935 streamlined corridor tender. Wills/Se Finecast provides a 1928 type (on which the lip at the bottom of the tank must be filed-off), so does Finney. The latter might make a streamlined non-corridor sort as well. By modifying the Pro-Scale A4 tender, a 1935 streamlined corridor type could be made, but it requires a fair bit of 'surgery' at the rear. 

 

SE Finecast will sell tenders separately, and a reasonable representation of the streamlined non-corridor sort can be achieved by filing off the rivets from the firm's A2 tender and building-up the front bulkhead. DJH used to make an excellent streamlined non-corridor tender for one of their A3 kits, and it's also made for the same firm's A2/2 kit, but none is available separately. PDK also makes a streamlined non-corridor tender sort, fitted to the last four P2s (which became A2/2s). Are there any others from kits? Hornby makes all three basic tender types RTR.

 

Anyway, a small selection of different A4 tenders on LB.....................................

 

1222788706_60002BachmannCrownlinetender.jpg.8d2a9caecd668ea7c9c692de4027cf86.jpg

 

This is a much-modified Bachmann A4 towing a Crownline (now PDK) streamlined non-corridor tender (Bachmann's A4 tender was rather poor). Note the extra strip at the base of the tank. Most models of A4 tenders don't carry this, when they should.

 

1431739110_60026MILESBEEVOR.jpg.97b1aaf5dca8f8c939f38d530f0bef4d.jpg

 

A SE Finecast A4 towing the same Crownline non-corridor tender type; this time (appropriately for 60026) without the extra strip. Note the flange at the base of the tender tank showing it to be narrower than the corridor sort.

 

788707714_SEFinecastA424.jpg.b9da3d57322a9305f5c795be68458bc7.jpg

 

Another SE Finecast A4, this one towing the tender supplied, a 1928 corridor sort, ex-A1/A3. The flange at the tank's base has been removed. This tender is an inheritance from the old Wills range, and was designed (it would seem) using the Roche drawing, which cheerfully mixes elements together from all the A4 tenders. It is, thus, useless! In fact, worse than useless - it's misleading. 1194611957_600270nUpElizabethan.jpg.f703fca9abe4c6d7b4f688edd4924188.jpg

 

At great expense, you can have an A4 with a streamlined corridor tender from Golden Age. Except, this one should have the extra strip at the base of the tank. At the price (well in excess of £1,000.00), might one expect to have that correct for 60027? 

 

740376267_6002760161.jpg.14e9ca13ef0ccfbe27cf785b020e5bdf.jpg

 

Eric Kidd made sure that detail was correct on his model of 60027.

 

1963508158_60022onDownexpress.jpg.5d8156112d1f314754f0f1021309ad7a.jpg

 

As I did with my model of 60022. This is built from a Pro-Scale kit and I've modified the tender's rear to make it represent a streamlined corridor sort.

 

1309997176_A460024Pro-Scalekit.jpg.8019df780a199532c3216b2cc3fac2a2.jpg

 

As supplied, the Pro-Scale A4 tender most-easily makes a 1928 corridor type. This, too, has the extra strip added to the base of the tank. 

 

1683490202_SEFinecastA460017.jpg.c973bc07ab4d5fab6def7596f08de6ce.jpg

 

Of course, one can always scratch-build a 1935 streamlined corridor tender. The loco is from SE Finecast.

 

620255381_A460034Bachmann02.jpg.ca8521c1c07f155195a76a5d715bcec9.jpg

 

Those who want 'accuracy' can represent the cut-down rear of the tenders of the '48 Exchanges participants; as I did here, modifying a SE Finecast tender to go behind another much-modified Bachmann A4.

 

1851644637_6070034rear.jpg.2eeb4ff4ac124e52684a80de2163dba2.jpg

 

Finally, a sort of honorary A4, the W1. SE Finecast provide a 1928 corridor tender with the kit, but for BR days a streamlined non-corridor pattern is needed. I just exchanged the corridor tender for the same firm's A2 one, and filed off the rivets!

 

I should point out that all of my models illustrated here (with the exception of the Golden Age example) were painted by Ian Rathbone, apart from 60017, which was painted by Geoff Haynes. 

 

I hope the above are of some use.

 

Bit of a wet spot or dipped joint by the barrow crossing there Tony - a TSR might be needed.

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15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Pleased to report that Geoff West and I operated Little Bytham's 57-move train sequence almost perfectly today. I say almost, because right at the end I neglected to throw the right switch. 

 

No locos smoked, none made 'chuffing' noises and there wasn't the slightest evidence of computer-control or manipulation. 

 

Geoff brought two kit-built K3s, one needing pick-ups. Pick-ups were duly made, and away it went; just like other - perfectly!

 

Thanks for your most generous donation for CRUK, Geoff.  

 Thank you for a most enjoyable day again Tony.

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Tony

As a fellow photographer, albeit mainly of different subjects, I would be interested to know how you index your pictures, such that you can come up with such a detailed array of A4 tenders, each showing detailed variations.

Do you use software such as Lightroom and tag every picture, or do you just have a photographic memory?

Tony

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That collection of A4 pictures with tenders is very useful. I seem to recall Graeme King posted photos of his tender mods on the LNER website, and it too is worth tracking down.

 

I should have said, though my original post on birds names was intended to be light-hearted, that the reason for my order is that I am "moving" a few of my Kings Cross A4's north to Gateshead and Haymarket, where they were more likely to be seen at my prototype location. I hadn't remembered all the potential issues with tenders however, so Tony's post was well-timed.

 

John

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Tony,

The articles (4) that Johnathon refers to are titled a "Tangle of Tenders" on the SNGLPT. Whilst in no way professing to be an expert on the subject I have by cross refereing found the information to be both accurate and highly informative.

As for the cut down tenders fitted to the 1948 Exchange Locomotives there have been some howlers produced in the RTR field of Model Railways, not least the 7mm  example of 60022 fitted with the BR late crest whilst towing a cut down tender,which by that time was of course attached to 60029 Woodcock. At a cost of close on £2000 a n expensive error for some.

Regards,Derek.

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6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Bit of a wet spot or dipped joint by the barrow crossing there Tony - a TSR might be needed.

There is John,

 

Though it is 'magnified' by the slight telephoto effect. It has nothing to do with lens distortion, despite claims from some others when their track is reported as 'wonky'. It does dip, and I've told Norman Solomon about it. 

 

TSR on LB? Trains can go over this at well over 100 mph. And do! 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

Tony

As a fellow photographer, albeit mainly of different subjects, I would be interested to know how you index your pictures, such that you can come up with such a detailed array of A4 tenders, each showing detailed variations.

Do you use software such as Lightroom and tag every picture, or do you just have a photographic memory?

Tony

A photographic memory, Tony? Me?

 

I have to wear my name tag at shows upside down, just so I can remember who I am!

 

What's 'Lightroom'? I've never heard of it.

 

My photographic filing system is very simple. Every model I own/have made has its own series of tiff pictures saved under its number. So, say, 60002 01 and so on. They're further cross-referenced by, say, Much-modified Bachmann A4 60002 01, or Wills A4 60014 01, and so on. 

 

When I want to find something, I merely type in 'search' on the computer and put in the number. They all then come up. I then just copy and paste them into another folder, select what I need, reduce the image sizes, save the images as jpegs then post them as appropriate on RMweb. Once done, I then empty the folder so as not to cram up the hard drive. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
to clarify a point
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3 hours ago, CUTLER2579 said:

Tony,

The articles (4) that Johnathon refers to are titled a "Tangle of Tenders" on the SNGLPT. Whilst in no way professing to be an expert on the subject I have by cross refereing found the information to be both accurate and highly informative.

As for the cut down tenders fitted to the 1948 Exchange Locomotives there have been some howlers produced in the RTR field of Model Railways, not least the 7mm  example of 60022 fitted with the BR late crest whilst towing a cut down tender,which by that time was of course attached to 60029 Woodcock. At a cost of close on £2000 a n expensive error for some.

Regards,Derek.

'As for the cut down tenders fitted to the 1948 Exchange Locomotives there have been some howlers produced in the RTR field of Model Railways, not least the 7mm  example of 60022 fitted with the BR late crest whilst towing a cut down tender,which by that time was of course attached to 60029 Woodcock. At a cost of close on £2000 a n expensive error for some.'

 

And here's that same model, Derek.

 

1880473275_DurhamStreet04.jpg.83fc76f50680e0c943e7f9c6b52e032a.jpg

 

It's well-beyond £2,000.00. The cut-down tender's rear is quite clear; the tender which, as you say, went to WOODCOCK by no later than 1949/'50. Yet, look more-closely. MALLARD has the post-'60 warning flashes, as well as the later BR device. And (though one is sticking out an alarming angle) it's still got frame-mounted guard irons, which it had lost by 1952! As for the 'correct' '6' on the front numberplate, so much for attention to detail. MALLARD was one of the A4s in BR days which never carried the correct style of '6'. It should also have a Smith-Stone speedometer driving off the rear coupled axle. 

 

I know it's very easy to sit back in judgement and pontificate on what's wrong with a model, but when one is paying not far off £2,500.00 for an RTR locomotive, I'd have expected the research to have been done and the detail to be correct. Had I made an 'identical' model of an A4 in 4mm, my customer would have handed it back at some speed! And, rightly so. 

 

The owner of the model above did point out the errors to the manufacturer, but didn't even receive the courtesy of a reply to his correspondence. Since it's on an exhibition layout, I suggest he tells many folk about it. 

 

 

 

Picking up again on 'wonky' track, without the 'zoomed-in' effect, the dip quite isn't quite as noticeable. 

 

 

1366379147_60026MILESBEEVOR.jpg.a3b8af5f4ce178dca95680e57f2adea2.jpg 

 

979877013_60034and63766.jpg.d83d81011bd84d5dde0a5afeb4870343.jpg

 

And relating to two further comments, using one of the pictures from a day or two ago, the cut-down rear to 60034's tender is apparent (which it kept until February 1963, when LORD FARINGDON got FLYING SCOTSMAN's tender on the latter's preservation). And, this picture is saved as '60034 and 63766'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
to clarify a point
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