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Here are my two BEC J11's (centre and right) with their Tri-ang chassis on my small Wigan GC layout. Tony will recognize the J10 as I bought it from him a couple of years ago. All were typical Wigan GC locos up to shed closure in 1951.

 

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After closure the J11's went to Gorton shed and the J10's went to nearby Springs Branch. Here is 65175 in strange surroundings. Springs Branch men apparently liked the J10's, they lasted until the early 60's. The last J10 in service was withdrawn from Springs Branch.

 

h53n5m5c.jpg

 

Brit15

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Has anyone mentioned Centre Models yet? I built one of their RSH 0-4-0ST kits many years ago, powered with an ECM motor (remember them?) instead of the recommended X04. It was all whitemetal, including a crude chassis block, albeit one that was drilled quite accurately. I sold it to a friend and fellow member of this parish back in 2010 or thereabouts - it's still going strong, and is a great load puller. They had several other industrials in their range, if memory serves?

 

Mark

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13 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Has anyone mentioned Centre Models yet? I built one of their RSH 0-4-0ST kits many years ago, powered with an ECM motor (remember them?) instead of the recommended X04. It was all whitemetal, including a crude chassis block, albeit one that was drilled quite accurately. I sold it to a friend and fellow member of this parish back in 2010 or thereabouts - it's still going strong, and is a great load puller. They had several other industrials in their range, if memory serves?

 

Mark

 

I don't think so but here is one that I built. Top is as it came but most of the chassis is scratch.

 

ArthurK

Slide1459A.jpg.6bf6404061693558ba13198e19ae6d7a.jpg

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On 12/09/2019 at 20:51, Tony Wright said:

Of course they're all yours Martin,

 

No one can (or shouldn't even try to) deny you that right.

 

However, on a purely personal note, seeing something which someone has personally made, rather than just bought (whether it be RTR or commission) will always mean more to me. There's a personal story to listen to.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

It will be running with detailed Lima Hornby and some Bachmann blue Diesels, quite a few DMUs, taking turns with a few other steam locos hauling a cut and shut rake of Triang mark 1s converted into TSOs with Replica windows, painted in WR chocolate and cream.

 

I was just annoyed it was not ready for the Gloucester Swindon runs but Clun Castle was an excellent runner.

 

Nothing better to bring back memories of the WR in 80s than lots of Blue and Grey with Green Chocolate and Cream.

 

Wagons are 90% kits.

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No one mentioned Vulcan, I have an 04 as a random preserved one.

 

A1 Hunslet 05 stalled as coupling rods are difficult. And I have lost a couple of bits. This would go on a diorama but I need some London Undergrouind EMUs, luckily thr current owners sent me some nice close ups of the bonnet.

 

Edge family (Michael told me the story) PWM650, stalled due to a lot of DIY in the house.

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2 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

As someone who has modelled Great Western up until 6 years ago I have first hand experience of the products of Messrs Mitchell and Finney and can only say how unlucky the world of LNER modellers are not to have had the benefit of products from these superb designers.  For me visiting their stands at Expo EM (Bletchley) each year was the high light of my visit as I studied their latest product, but at the time there was no way I had the skill to build such models.  It was therefore their kits that convinced me I needed to bite the bullet and acquire the necessary skills.  It took a while to do so, and there were tears and swearing at times, but I have never regretted the time spent in persevering.    Without exception I found their kits to go together perfectly every time.  This is not to say that they were necessarily easy builds but only because of the level of detail provided.  In particular it felt that you could never get to the end of Mr Finney's products because there was always yet another piece of detail to fit including such things as a separate padlock for the toolbox; but the satisfaction when the model was complete!

 

I include as an example a Finney Hall beautifully painted by Mr Rathbone.  Admittedly in this occasion  I can only claim responsibility for its frames (chassis) and the tender the body having been built by Mr Edge for a customer in Lancashire.

4905_Barton_Hall_Derek_Shore.jpg.0bfbfb938c2367a31fb9ea7949b48d51.jpg

 

As Jol has mentioned I have recently dabbled in etched kit design to fill gaps in the LNER locomotive fleet needed for our Clayton project.  These are gradually being added to the LRM product range.  In doing so I have unashamedly borrowed construction techniques from Messrs M & M because I appreciated the benefit of these when building their GWR products.  

 

I am now learning to enjoy the products of Messrs Norton and Crawley et al who have designed several of the locomotives that we need for Clayton, so far their C12 and J3 kits.  I am also having to learn from scratch about things GN/LNER in particular the world of the J's.  How many different ways can you design an 0-6-0 goods engine?  On the GWR in the period covered by our Hungerford layout we had a choice of Dean's Goods or Dean's Goods.  Admittedly you could model inside frame or outside frame (we have one of each) but that is it.  On Clayton we intend to have J1's / 2's / 3's / 6's and 7's only two of which are currently available in kit form.  I'd better get back to the CAD software on my computer the J1 is calling.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Frank

It is difficult sorting out all the variations of GNR 0-6-0s and 0-6-0T  engines.  I found the GNR Society publication on GNR Tenders a remarkable book, and an indispensable aid for GNR and LNER modellers, as it completely covers the entire history of the companies tenders.

If only someone would would do the same for MR and LMS Deeley/Johnson/Fowler tenders.

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My modelling has been a little sparse lately but yesterday I went to TINGS to see if I could get some inspiration. Overall the show this year was okay but could've been better. They need more chairs around the tables at the downstairs tea/coffee bar. There's plenty of traders but some N niches are not catered for and modelling materials (like paint, plasticard and tools) were very sparse. There were some good layouts like 'Loch Tat', 'Low Yard Junction', 'Dentdale', 'Sutton St Anns', and 'Marx Engels Platz' but there are too many small roundy-roundy train set types set in Metcalfeshire. However, the best thing is the opportunity to meet-up and chat with many one doesn't often see and meet new enthusiasts. 

 

I've mentioned before that ideally I like to see a decent LT Leyland Titan (B15) bus in N gauge - either RTP or kit. They were pretty commonplace throughout London for the era I'm looking to model. And yesterday at TINGS I picked up an N gauge scale 3D printed Leyland Titan (B15) by N-Train at TINGS yesterday. It's a pretty basic model but does include an lower and upper deck interior and size is pretty much spot on for 1:148. Unfortunately it's printed in that white rough 'dentine' type acrylic which is going to need a lot of work to smooth and finish to an acceptable standard (although the wheels are printed in a finer detail material - possible FUD).

 

DSC_8234.JPG.63d85e6e055b128fc0e91b49317eeca6.JPG

 

Consequently the detail is very ill defined and much is lacking - so that is going to need to be added as what there is will probably disappear with the sanding smooth effort required. There's also a lack of panel lines and grilles. And it's not quite right with the roof looking too flat with insufficiently rounded corners. Plus the lower rear window opening square looks too small. In fact it doesn't seem as accurate as the Cars Workshop Leyland Fleetline I tried bashing and had to scratch-built a complete lower rear end (although I did give up with that not being able to sort the window arrangement). It's going to be a long haul re-building/bashing modelling project to get it as I want.

 

Here's the back end compared with the unfinished conversion effort and the real thing:

 

905521014_3titans.jpg.abb7bd0c2829a82740102e24b6d95de8.jpg

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3 hours ago, grahame said:

My modelling has been a little sparse lately but yesterday I went to TINGS to see if I could get some inspiration. Overall the show this year was okay but could've been better. They need more chairs around the tables at the downstairs tea/coffee bar. There's plenty of traders but some N niches are not catered for and modelling materials (like paint, plasticard and tools) were very sparse.

 

 

 

 

 

I went to TINGS a year or two ago and came away very surprised that I couldn't buy something as basic as railway paint from any of the stands. Perhaps it was there and I missed it. 

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In the spirit of sharing what little modelling has been taking place my end :whistle: ..... I have just started to build a Craftsman Midland 1F 0-6-0 tank. The kit looks pretty good but will need a bit of adjusting and adapting to suit my 1902 Rowsley prototype. I am also building it in P4 so the chassis is not workable - so the first step will be to scratch build a new chassis. I am starting with a set of Gibson milled frames which are pretty good (though will need ash pan and springs adding). I am going to use the chassis to have my first bash at a CSB set up which will be interesting. :dance_mini:

 

As a start off I have been building the coupling rods ... from a Dave Franks universal etch - again a first for me. So a shout out for Dave - I was very impressed by the etch and am pretty happy with the result - even though the next time around I will hopefully be a little neater. I really liked the rivet articulation design and the option to fit the lubrication corks was a nice touch (close up photos are cruel and a little more cleaning up around the corks is required!).

 

I should now be able to use these to set up the hornblocks accurately and hopefully get smooth running .... time will tell :unknw_mini:

 

1F-T_Coupling_Rods_-_1_(1).jpg.9ec072ca40e3e661981449981b1853af.jpg

 

Edited by Lecorbusier
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7 hours ago, grahame said:

 

DSC_8234.JPG.63d85e6e055b128fc0e91b49317eeca6.JPG

 

Consequently the detail is very ill defined and much is lacking - so that is going to need to be added as what there is will probably disappear with the sanding smooth effort required.

It might be worth investing in some paint ‘leveller’. Does what it says on the tin and flattens the paint surface. Once you’ve cleared the worst of the texture, the leveller mixed with an undercoat may well act as a suitable filler too. Military modellers use it to fill sanding scratches so it might have potential to get the finish needed without obscuring to much detail.

Phil at Hobby Holidays has leveller in the ranges he stocks.

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3 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

In the spirit of sharing what little modelling has been taking place my end :whistle: ..... I have just started to build a Craftsman Midland 1F 0-6-0 tank. The kit looks pretty good but will need a bit of adjusting and adapting to suit my 1902 Rowsley prototype. I am also building it in P4 so the chassis is not workable - so the first step will be to scratch build a new chassis. I am starting with a set of Gibson milled frames which are pretty good (though will need ash pan and springs adding). I am going to use the chassis to have my first bash at a CSB set up which will be interesting. :dance_mini:

 

As a start off I have been building the coupling rods ... from a Dave Franks universal etch - again a first for me. So a shout out for Dave - I was very impressed by the etch and am pretty happy with the result - even though the next time around I will hopefully be a little neater. I really liked the rivet articulation design and the option to fit the lubrication corks was a nice touch (close up photos are cruel and a little more cleaning up around the corks is required!).

 

I should now be able to use these to set up the hornblocks accurately and hopefully get smooth running .... time will tell :unknw_mini:

 

1F-T_Coupling_Rods_-_1_(1).jpg.9ec072ca40e3e661981449981b1853af.jpg

 

That kit is a nice one. Such a shame that Craftsman have disappeared. Their MR 0-4-4T is another one which makes up very nicely.

 

Mark

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Centre Models kits.. yes I have a few of them..all now showing their age

 

Avonside - Puddleglum. ECM motor, Sharman wheels

 

2089900914_AvonsidePuddleglumNo1(1280x726).jpg.802d97995ac77423437d3124501286de.jpg

 

A hunslet 16" - Percy ECM Motor, Sharman Wheels

 

2124198165_PercyNo2(1280x637).jpg.34979d44d898028168312322104ef336.jpg

 

Kerr Stuart "Victory" Wee Fergie D11 motor, romford wheels

 

1414716262_WeeFergieNo3(1280x604).jpg.a36d4369d3c5df44c8e4fd79dcebad93.jpg

 

Robert Stephenson Hawthorn  Odin body found in a bring and buy stall for 50p, Chassis by Mike Edge

1666405621_RSHOdinNo4(1280x637).jpg.fe89044c8ae3700288796a7596ba9540.jpg

 

Baz

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29 minutes ago, MarkC said:

That kit is a nice one. Such a shame that Craftsman have disappeared. Their MR 0-4-4T is another one which makes up very nicely.

 

Mark

That's good to know ... I think I recall Tony building one of them for BRM (or something Similar) and I think he shared your view.

 

I have one of the 0-4-4Ts as well (good old e-bay) .... but have yet to work out how I am going to engineer the truck.

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1 hour ago, Lecorbusier said:

That's good to know ... I think I recall Tony building one of them for BRM (or something Similar) and I think he shared your view.

 

I have one of the 0-4-4Ts as well (good old e-bay) .... but have yet to work out how I am going to engineer the truck.

I'm away at sea, so can't put up photos, but mine has the boiler packed with lead to keep the weight above the drivers. The bogie is made up as per the instructions, with great care being taken to make sure that everything that moves does so freely, and is heavy enough to run without even a light spring to help it remain on the track when running bunker first. It's certainly never given any problems in many years of running at exhibitions over my hand-built track and pointwork.

 

Enjoy the build!

 

Mark

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1 minute ago, Lecorbusier said:

That's good advice ... sounds like a plan. ..... just not sure how it might work if I plump for CSb's - but let's not run before we can walk  ... first the 1F

I built mine as per the kit - no compensation or springing at all, just made sure that it was all square when assembling the frames, then that the drivers rotated freely after assembling and fitting the coupling rods. This was some 30 years ago too! I do have another one in the roundtuit pile; I was (and still am) wondering whether to go full Sharman Flexichas on it though, just because I can, but given how well the first one (still) runs, and following discussions here, I might not.

 

Mark

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10 hours ago, Barry O said:

Centre Models kits.. yes I have a few of them..all now showing their age

 

Avonside - Puddleglum. ECM motor, Sharman wheels

 

2089900914_AvonsidePuddleglumNo1(1280x726).jpg.802d97995ac77423437d3124501286de.jpg

 

A hunslet 16" - Percy ECM Motor, Sharman Wheels

 

2124198165_PercyNo2(1280x637).jpg.34979d44d898028168312322104ef336.jpg

 

Kerr Stuart "Victory" Wee Fergie D11 motor, romford wheels

 

1414716262_WeeFergieNo3(1280x604).jpg.a36d4369d3c5df44c8e4fd79dcebad93.jpg

 

Robert Stephenson Hawthorn  Odin body found in a bring and buy stall for 50p, Chassis by Mike Edge

1666405621_RSHOdinNo4(1280x637).jpg.fe89044c8ae3700288796a7596ba9540.jpg

 

Baz

Nice to see Puddleglum again.

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On 13/09/2019 at 10:35, t-b-g said:

With some kit manufacturers there are clearly different designers involved, especially where ranges have been amalgamated.

 

London Road is a good example, with kits from a good number of designers now being sold under the same label.

 

I am pretty sure that Jidenco were in the same boat as their kits seem to range from "buildable with a bit of work" through to the dreaded Claughton!

 

Even the worst kit in the world can be built if you are willing to alter or replace enough parts and I know of a couple of Jdenco Claughtons that were eventually finished. One runs on Narrow Road. It took three reasonably skilled modellers nearly 20 years but we got there in the end. It has a new boiler, firebox and footplate but the rest is mostly original kit with a few alterations.

 

I have mixed feelings about tackling the worst kits. There is the blood, sweat and tears that go into creating a good loco out of sub standard components but there is also a much greater sense of achievement when you succeed. When your efforts are seem by others, perhaps at a show and somebody asks you what the origin of the Claughton is, the raised eyebrow when you say "Jidenco" is priceless!  

Did I manage to photograph the Jidenco Claughton on Narrow Road, Tony?

 

1139882318_JidencoClaughton01.jpg.cca49cb9638450c4537a239d44e5348f.jpg

 

1628248936_JidencoClaughton02.jpg.e99256942f418b1c6225c7e500e1eb32.jpg

 

A year ago, at the Woking Show, I did manage to photograph this one, running on Metropolitan Junction (in EM). This year it was back again, on the EM Gauge Society stand. I was amused by the little note describing it. 'JIdenco kit, over 90% scratch-built, just parts of the cab, a few castings and some nuts and bolts from the original' or words to that effect!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited by Tony Wright
typo error
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On 13/09/2019 at 11:16, Michael Edge said:

That was a very long list of kits from Tony - I notice it didn't include any of ours though... Anyone who knows the history of Judith Edge kits will be aware that they arose from Judith's irritation at hearing my continual complaining (polite expression) at other kits. I do have a Jidenco Claughton kit in the cupboard somewhere - I might try to build it one day but I don't have any use for one at the moment.

There are many reasons for criticising kits and as has been pointed out some ranges such as Falcon and London Road come from a variety of designers so obviously some might be much better/worse than others.

Many have basic dimensional errors, usually because an incorrect drawing has been used to produce the kit - this can be more or less insurmountable.

Many more are badly drawn or designed, especially true of hand drawn etches from the pre-computer age. The worst cases are left and right hand parts drawn separately - and differently, many more simply don't fit together.

Over complication and inclusion of parts which will be invisible on the finished models are what I dislike the most, often coupled with very thin and flimsy half etched parts which are almost impossible to solder together neatly. In my view the principal function of the kit designer is to make life easier for the builder - I want builders to finish the job, not give up part way along.

Instructions are another common source of complaints, they can be so long and comprehensive that nobody can be bothered to wade through them all or so short (Jidenco were good at this) to be completely useless. The current fashion is to produce a series of photographs as the model is constructed with little or no explanation and no proper parts list - certainly not an accurate drawing of what is being built. This seems a very lazy way to do the job and the photo reproduction is very often poor. In my view the parts list should be numbered, with numbers shown on the etch (no frantic searching for random numbers on a photo of the etch) and a description/name for every component. A problem with this approach is that many kit designers have little or no knowledge what the parts are, what they are for on the full size loco, how they work and how they were designed.

I've built nearly all of the Backwoods range, a couple of them were really difficult (Penrhyn 0-4-0 and K1 Garratt come to mind) but mostly they were very good and all produced excellent models.

Most of the above refers to etched kits, I don't get to build many white metal ones these days but most of them were buildable with care. K's were very good when the moulds were new but quality deteriorated when they used the worn out moulds for far too long. NuCast, DJH, Little Engines, Cntre Models and Wills/SEF were normally very good - some of the others mentioned by Tony would be better melted down and used for weight in a proper model. I have done this with some particularly awful castings.

The complaints about the 7mm ex Jidenco Coal Tank are probably valid (I haven't built one myself) but the finished model looks pretty good to me, which is what the customer expects. There are quite a number which I would say "never again" to - or at least increase the price considerably.

 

Thanks Mike,

 

The list included the manufacturers' kits I've personally built. I've never made a Judith Edge kit (I don't see many ER RA9 locos in the range!), but Tom (our elder son) did make a very nice job of one of the JE diesel shunters, which he built in EM. I'll dig it out and photograph it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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On 13/09/2019 at 11:50, jwealleans said:

Tony didn't mention Coopercraft either. One of the worst kits I've ever built, but accompanied by some of the very best instructions. 

How could I forget that, Jonathan?

 

The only three Coopercaft B12/3s I've ever seen made (successfully) are the one you built, the one Chris Trafford built and the one I built. I wonder if there are any more?

 

Someone else mentioned Stephen Poole loco kits. Another I've forgotten. I've built a J15 and an E4  from the range (not using the firm's wheels). Where they are now, who knows?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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On 13/09/2019 at 13:08, Long John Silver said:

On the subject of kits, I built two Westward panniers(64xx and 74xx) over 25 years ago, decent kits and still going strong.

More I've forgotten!

 

M&L as well - I built a few of those, as well as several Westward kits for GWR prototypes, and a HIghland Railway small 'Ben'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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