Wright writes.....

[SP Steve]

Hi Tony,

 

Here's my application for membership of the rivet counter brigade although my ability to turn models of value into worthless chunks might not be enough to gain entry.

 

I know next to nothing about road vehicles of the early 1960s and yet I decided that I wanted to model some sort of brewery dray wagon. Part of my enjoyment of the hobby is carrying out the research of a subject and then having to come up with solutions in building them. After much reading on line and perusal of a lot of images I've plumped for an ERF KV and have made a start in debasing an EFE model (so far I've removed the original flat bed and started to scratch build a replacement out of brass, doctored the front radiator grill and headlights and hacked the under frame around).

 

The finished article may not be 100% accurate but any knowledge I accumulate will go into the build to allow as good a representation as possible given my abilities and information I have to hand.  I know that the end result will be inferior to the model that came out of the box but then I might be waiting a good while for the manufacturers to get around to providing one and in between I have the fun in learning about new subjects.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by SP Steve

[Dave John]

Well, I have become a rivet counter. 

 

Really, at the price of rivet transfers I count them all on the sheet to make sure they are all there before they go anywhere near a model. 

 

Joking aside I used to omit rivets where I knew they should be because my limited skills ended up with a wonky line of badly spaced randomly sized rivets which drew the eye and detracted from a model. Since learning to use rivet transfers I can now create a straight line of consistent rivets which adds to a model.  So I have started adding them.  

 

Maybe not in exactly the right numbers, but at least in the right place. 

[polybear]

As regards counting rivets, do you build a model in accordance with the full-size drawing, or as the lads in the workshops actually built the real thing?  Often the two are different, as I understand it.  Decisions, decisions....

Edited September 23, 2019 by polybear

[31A]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

Leicester South will be making its only outing in 2019 to Bradford industrial museum towards the end of October. I'm hoping to finish this GCR BT 7 in time. They were a long lived prototype with a useful amount of compartments and a modest but effective van compartment. They were marshalled as part of Gresley and Thompson ordinary passenger train formations across the Western division. The photo way below shows a typical three set, BT (7) CL (3-4) BT (5). The link shows a very similar BT 6 as part of a Gresley set.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/197-gresley-51-1-1-2-steel-panelled-stock

 

The kit is from Bill Bedford (etches only and no bogies or roof) It builds very well, with a few innovations to help in the assembly process. Bogies side frames (10'6'' GCR Fox)were sourced from Shapeways as 3d printed models, they also came with a useful selection of GC buffers. The bogie itself was scratch built as will be the roof.

 

Unfortunately for myself, I assembled the ends to the sides with jumper cables, train alarm gear etc in place. It was only then that I realized that the ends provided were matchboarded, when the carriage under construction had panelled and beaded ends. After much thought about filling the matchboarding and soldering on beading around the existing furniture, I decided to bite the bullet and unsolder the various bits and bobs, detach the ends from the sides, flip them over, re attach them and thus providing a blank canvas to re-atached the furniture and the new beading. There are a couple of things to add, lamp brackets and a bit of brake gear but the final bit of construction is the roof.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very nice work, Andrew!  It looks as though you use bolt heads for the jumper cable fittings?  I always find them fiddly things to make, no matter how I do it.

 

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

Leicester South will be making its only outing in 2019 to Bradford industrial museum towards the end of October. I'm hoping to finish this GCR BT 7 in time. They were a long lived prototype with a useful amount of compartments and a modest but effective van compartment. They were marshalled as part of Gresley and Thompson ordinary passenger train formations across the Western division. The photo way below shows a typical three set, BT (7) CL (3-4) BT (5). The link shows a very similar BT 6 as part of a Gresley set.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/197-gresley-51-1-1-2-steel-panelled-stock

 

The kit is from Bill Bedford (etches only and no bogies or roof) It builds very well, with a few innovations to help in the assembly process. Bogies side frames (10'6'' GCR Fox)were sourced from Shapeways as 3d printed models, they also came with a useful selection of GC buffers. The bogie itself was scratch built as will be the roof.

 

Unfortunately for myself, I assembled the ends to the sides with jumper cables, train alarm gear etc in place. It was only then that I realized that the ends provided were matchboarded, when the carriage under construction had panelled and beaded ends. After much thought about filling the matchboarding and soldering on beading around the existing furniture, I decided to bite the bullet and unsolder the various bits and bobs, detach the ends from the sides, flip them over, re attach them and thus providing a blank canvas to re-atached the furniture and the new beading. There are a couple of things to add, lamp brackets and a bit of brake gear but the final bit of construction is the roof.

 

 

That is looking like it will be quite a striking addition to the LSGC roster. I’d love to see the layout again but Bradford is a bit far north for me. Do you have any shows booked for 2020?

 

Andy

[Chamby]

45 minutes ago, polybear said:

As regards counting rivets, do you build a model in accordance with the full-size drawing, or as the lads in the workshops actually built the real thing?  Often the two are different, as I understand it.  Decisions, decisions....

 

Ideally, from a photograph of the locomotive that you are actually modelling... or as close as you can get to it, bearing in mind the comments above about 'similar' rather than 'standard' classes...

[Bucoops]

15 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

Ideally, from a photograph of the locomotive that you are actually modelling... or as close as you can get to it, bearing in mind the comments above about 'similar' rather than 'standard' classes...

 

A photo taken at the desired time as well - I have photos of my chosen N7 as built (flush head rivets on the smoke box) and later in life (snap head rivets on the smokebox).

[glo41f]

TW  wrote " What I do see (far too often!) are those who never make things, standing as righteous pontificates, often with loud voices, being highly-critical of the work of others. Yet, all they've been able to achieve is to open boxes or get others to do their modelling for them."

 

I wonder if this attitude (which I have also met with), is a way of masking the speakers own sense of inadequacy in that he lacks the skill to construct or adapt a model and thus criticises the work of others.  It is an interesting idea and no doubt the good folk of this parish will advise whether this is some sort of mental issue. 

 

Mind you we are a bloody minded lot really persevering in a world of machines and tools that can seriously damage you. (I speak with a certain degree of pain having picked up a soldering iron the wrong way round the other day!)  In my chosen scale of 7mm work though is relatively easy though you need a higher wattage iron. The 2mm folk to me hold all the aces as not only is their work exquisite and almost invisible but it can be carried around in a man bag!

 

Martin Long

Edited September 23, 2019 by glo41f
spelling!

[Headstock]

fulfilling

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Very nice work, Andrew!  It looks as though you use bolt heads for the jumper cable fittings?  I always find them fiddly things to make, no matter how I do it.

 

 

Thanks,

 

it's a bolt through a Romford crankpin washer. The latter is more apparent now that I have properly cleaned up the excess solder.  Since the photo has been taken I've filled the bolt head and I've relocated the vac standard as it was off centre, I also corrected the upright on the right hand (as viewed) window bolection. I've also finished rounding off the corners of the bolections.

 

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

That is looking like it will be quite a striking addition to the LSGC roster. I’d love to see the layout again but Bradford is a bit far north for me. Do you have any shows booked for 2020?

 

Andy

 

We did have 2020 shows booked, Doncaster for example, but somebody lost, didn't do, or forgot to send the paperwork. As a result ........... it looks like its down to me to sort something out of the mess. Or I may go and find something more fulfilling on which to spend my time.

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Headstock
add info

[thegreenhowards]

On 20/09/2019 at 17:53, Tony Wright said:

Yesterday, I completed the K3 'rebuild', recently featured.

 

 

 

 

 

As previously mentioned, it was originally an old Wills body on a new SE Finecast chassis. It was acquired via ebay by my good friend, Geoff West, who sold it on to me. The chassis was too good to waste, so I ordered just a K3 body from SEF, built it, painted it and weathered it to match the tender (or tried to). I had asked Geoff to weather it, but decided to do it myself - he's a busy man!  

 

The prototype is pictured on Page 53 of the appropriate Yeadon volume, and is so dirty that any lining is barely discernible. I thus opted out of the tricky (transfer) job of lining the valance. It's ended up not quite as dirty as the real 61981 in the picture.

 

Some elements in the motion need a little attention, though it runs superbly, and a little packing might be needed to get the cab and tender mutually-perpendicular. However, as a layout loco, well?

 

 

 

Tony,

 

I thought you might be interested in what happened to the body of your acquired loco which you twisted my arm to take off you at Woking. I thought, only £5 and for a good cause, surely I can do something with it. 

 

So here she is. I dropped a Bachmann K3 some time ago and it’s been in the repair queue ever since. Only the body was damaged, so I decided to transplant your Wills body onto the Bachmann chassis. The Bachmann tender was more or less unscathed from the drop, so I’ve reused that. The body is untouched apart from changing the shed code (she had a Scottish one for some reason despite 61870 never being a Scottish loco). I wanted a Colwick example so I’ll keep the number.

 

 

 

She’s obviously not up to the standards of your model, but as a layout loco she does a good job. The white metal body makes for great haulage potential as shown in the video below - 46 coal wagons, a bogie brick wagon (as were often included in the New England to Ferme Park coal trains for brake force) and a brake Van. No slipping at all!

 

I have another Wills body, so I’m tempted to try another of these but using the new Bachmann V3 chassis which has the correct wheelbase and the right size wheels. It will involve sawing off the side tank weights from the chassis - has anyone else tried this?

 

Andy

 

 

[31A]

26 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

it's a bolt through a Romford crankpin washer. The latter is more apparent now that I have properly cleaned up the excess solder.  Since the photo has been taken I've filled the bolt head and I've relocated the vac standard as it was off centre, I also corrected the upright on the right hand (as viewed) window bolection. I've also finished rounding off the corners of the bolections.

 

 

Thanks, any idea what size bolt?  I made some once using 1mm brass rod through a small washer, with a hole through diameter of the rod to take the cable itself (from copper wire) but thought it still looked a bit clunky and took ages to do!

 

Slightly disappointed not to see LSGC at the Shipley show the other weekend!

 

[john new]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

A photo taken at the desired time as well - I have photos of my chosen N7 as built (flush head rivets on the smoke box) and later in life (snap head rivets on the smokebox).

Even a loco as well known as Flying Scotsman, usually having unnoticeable rivets on the smokebox door, ran for a while in preservation with very visible  countersunk rivets on the door strapping.  Now modelling it like that probably would energise a few rivet counters (the obnoxious know it all types) into telling you it always ran with smooth hinges.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Thanks, any idea what size bolt?  I made some once using 1mm brass rod through a small washer, with a hole through diameter of the rod to take the cable itself (from copper wire) but thought it still looked a bit clunky and took ages to do!

 

Slightly disappointed not to see LSGC at the Shipley show the other weekend!

 

 

Thanks for your interest in LSGC,

 

The layout was at last years show, I wouldn't have thought that the show organisers would want to do two in a row, it looks a bit desperate. It's  nice to know that somebody wants to see it though, it certainly encourages me to take it on.

 

I would have to check later but I'm reasonably certain it would be a 14 ba bolt. To be honest, 1mm rod doesn't sound too clunky to me, it is probably about the right size. The advantage of the bolt is that it stands off the washer about the right amount, if you then cut into the slot in the head with a saw, you can then solder the wire up solid into the slot. I didn't bother second time around as I was out of flexible wire of the right size, so I drilled a hole in the washer and jammed in to it an ordinary bit of nickel silver wire and then soldered it in place from the back. I repeated this at the other end and then shaped it based on how it appeared in my reference photos.

[micklner]

On 22/09/2019 at 13:40, Headstock said:

The dia 86 general van that currently awaits completion, a D&S kit with a few additions. An image taken after the fitting of the roof, the cornice and roof gubbins is yet to be fitted. The second photo is after painting, the internal screens and glazing is still to be fitted.

 

 

Andrew,

             I have never seen a LNER  NPCS van with that type of lettering in the style below the number before, in particular the use of the word TARE , do you have a source/photo please. I also have a D 86 completed Van, but never found any other info other that sparse information from the D&S instruction sheet.

[31A]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks for your interest in LSGC,

 

The layout was at last years show, I wouldn't have thought that the show organisers would want to do two in a row, it looks a bit desperate. It's  nice to know that somebody wants to see it though, it certainly encourages me to take it on.

 

I would have to check later but I'm reasonably certain it would be a 14 ba bolt. To be honest, 1mm rod doesn't sound too clunky to me, it is probably about the right size. The advantage of the bolt is that it stands off the washer about the right amount, if you then cut into the slot in the head with a saw, you can then solder the wire up solid into the slot. I didn't bother second time around as I was out of flexible wire of the right size, so I drilled a hole in the washer and jammed in to it an ordinary bit of nickel silver wire and then soldered it in place from the back. I repeated this at the other end and then shaped it based on how it appeared in my reference photos.

 

Thanks Andrew, interesting thoughts - I'll try that method next time I have to make some.

 

[Headstock]

14 minutes ago, micklner said:

Andrew,

             I have never seen a LNER  NPCS van with that type of lettering in the style below the number before, in particular the use of the word TARE , do you have a source/photo please. I also have a D 86 completed Van, but never found any other info other that sparse information from the D&S instruction sheet.

 

Evening Mick,

 

There is nothing special about it, just the standard LNER wagon lettering. I'm not sure if the d 86 vans even counted as NPC's, though they were passenger rated, they were classed as vans not non passenger carriages. The source is the GA drawing, though I couldn't accommodate it all. The missing line reads 'for passenger traffic only'. In full, tare, wheelbase, 'for passenger traffic only' and to 'carry eight tons'. XP was added in the 1940's. By the time the war had intervened, there were a number of non standard styles associated with the lettering, (I have identified three) though the text read the same.

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I thought you might be interested in what happened to the body of your acquired loco which you twisted my arm to take off you at Woking. I thought, only £5 and for a good cause, surely I can do something with it. 

 

So here she is. I dropped a Bachmann K3 some time ago and it’s been in the repair queue ever since. Only the body was damaged, so I decided to transplant your Wills body onto the Bachmann chassis. The Bachmann tender was more or less unscathed from the drop, so I’ve reused that. The body is untouched apart from changing the shed code (she had a Scottish one for some reason despite 61870 never being a Scottish loco). I wanted a Colwick example so I’ll keep the number.

 

 

 

She’s obviously not up to the standards of your model, but as a layout loco she does a good job. The white metal body makes for great haulage potential as shown in the video below - 46 coal wagons, a bogie brick wagon (as were often included in the New England to Ferme Park coal trains for brake force) and a brake Van. No slipping at all!

 

I have another Wills body, so I’m tempted to try another of these but using the new Bachmann V3 chassis which has the correct wheelbase and the right size wheels. It will involve sawing off the side tank weights from the chassis - has anyone else tried this?

 

Andy

 

 

I'm absolutely delighted, Andy,

 

As will Geoff West, whose property it originally was.

 

What a damn good 'layout loco' and a fiver's worth indeed.

 

Did I really have to twist your arm? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I thought you might be interested in what happened to the body of your acquired loco which you twisted my arm to take off you at Woking. I thought, only £5 and for a good cause, surely I can do something with it. 

 

So here she is. I dropped a Bachmann K3 some time ago and it’s been in the repair queue ever since. Only the body was damaged, so I decided to transplant your Wills body onto the Bachmann chassis. The Bachmann tender was more or less unscathed from the drop, so I’ve reused that. The body is untouched apart from changing the shed code (she had a Scottish one for some reason despite 61870 never being a Scottish loco). I wanted a Colwick example so I’ll keep the number.

 

 

 

She’s obviously not up to the standards of your model, but as a layout loco she does a good job. The white metal body makes for great haulage potential as shown in the video below - 46 coal wagons, a bogie brick wagon (as were often included in the New England to Ferme Park coal trains for brake force) and a brake Van. No slipping at all!

 

I have another Wills body, so I’m tempted to try another of these but using the new Bachmann V3 chassis which has the correct wheelbase and the right size wheels. It will involve sawing off the side tank weights from the chassis - has anyone else tried this?

 

Andy

 

 

 

Evening Andy,

 

that's a nice big train. 1870, that's my K3, the original 1300. A daily performer on the London extension. Now that you are heading west to Colwick, you will soon be ditching the East coast mainline for the more exciting GC.  Imagine your K3 1870 on your d 210 twin, pure Nottingham Victoria. You have been infected.

[thegreenhowards]

8 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Andy,

 

that's a nice big train. 1870, that's my K3, the original 1300. A daily performer on the London extension. Now that you are heading west to Colwick, you will soon be ditching the East coast mainline for the more exciting GC.  Imagine your K3 1870 on your d 210 twin, pure Nottingham Victoria. You have been infected.

Now, now, not quite so fast! The reason for a Colwick K3 is that they worked a van train to King’s Cross for, at least, part of the ‘50s. And d.210s certainly were part of the KX scene, (although not paired with K3s!). 

 

Admittedly a Colwick K3 would be an unlikely performer on a coal such as in the video, but i wanted to demonstrate its haulage capability and I’ve seen a picture of a New England one on such a working in 1949.

 

 

 

 

[Headstock]

5 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Now, now, not quite so fast! The reason for a Colwick K3 is that they worked a van train to King’s Cross for, at least, part of the ‘50s. And d.210s certainly were part of the KX scene, (although not paired with K3s!). 

 

Admittedly a Colwick K3 would be an unlikely performer on a coal such as in the video, but i wanted to demonstrate its haulage capability and I’ve seen a picture of a New England one on such a working in 1949.

 

 

 

 

 

You don't fool me, I've seen your Stanton pipe wagons. You will be trading your A4's for Halls next.

[grahame]

8 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

 

Lovely modelling, but I spy rivets. I don't know how many there should be, so is anyone able to count them and confirm the correct number? And perhaps their correct type, size and spacing.

;-)

 

[Tony Wright]

I photographed an N Gauge layout today - Aviemore.

 

 

Exactly what N Gauge/2mm does best in my opinion. Trains in a landscape!

 

 

[Lecorbusier]

On 22/09/2019 at 13:40, Headstock said:

The dia 86 general van that currently awaits completion, a D&S kit with a few additions. An image taken after the fitting of the roof, the cornice and roof gubbins is yet to be fitted. The second photo is after painting, the internal screens and glazing is still to be fitted.

 

 

This is inspirational stuff ... the brass version is delectable but how it then turns into believable timber verges upon alchemy ... 

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

 

Lovely modelling, but I spy rivets. I don't know how many there should be, so is anyone able to count them and confirm the correct number? And perhaps their correct type, size and spacing.

;-)

 

 

Evening Grahame,

 

you would have to ask who ever produced the 3d modelling, it could even be someone on RM web. This is only my second GC carriage, there is no great work on the subject so it is a case of scrabeling through the original documentation. I don't have a broad knowledge of the subject, just individual carriages as they come along. I needed a set of bogies in a hurry ( a friend who would have provide a D&S set of bogies seems to have lost them)  I'm very much working to a deadline, the theory being that bogies are easy to replace if the need arises. I must say that I have measured them up and unless I have made a mistake they come out with a 10' 3'' wb when they should be 10' 6''.

 

 

5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I thought you might be interested in what happened to the body of your acquired loco which you twisted my arm to take off you at Woking. I thought, only £5 and for a good cause, surely I can do something with it. 

 

So here she is. I dropped a Bachmann K3 some time ago and it’s been in the repair queue ever since. Only the body was damaged, so I decided to transplant your Wills body onto the Bachmann chassis. The Bachmann tender was more or less unscathed from the drop, so I’ve reused that. The body is untouched apart from changing the shed code (she had a Scottish one for some reason despite 61870 never being a Scottish loco). I wanted a Colwick example so I’ll keep the number.

 

 

 

She’s obviously not up to the standards of your model, but as a layout loco she does a good job. The white metal body makes for great haulage potential as shown in the video below - 46 coal wagons, a bogie brick wagon (as were often included in the New England to Ferme Park coal trains for brake force) and a brake Van. No slipping at all!

 

I have another Wills body, so I’m tempted to try another of these but using the new Bachmann V3 chassis which has the correct wheelbase and the right size wheels. It will involve sawing off the side tank weights from the chassis - has anyone else tried this?

 

Andy

 

 

 

One tiny niggle Andy,

 

1870 was the first group standard K3, dosn't yours have the NE rather than group standard cab?

[Atso]

10 hours ago, Headstock said:

Leicester South will be making its only outing in 2019 to Bradford industrial museum towards the end of October. I'm hoping to finish this GCR BT 7 in time. They were a long lived prototype with a useful amount of compartments and a modest but effective van compartment. They were marshalled as part of Gresley and Thompson ordinary passenger train formations across the Western division. The photo way below shows a typical three set, BT (7) CL (3-4) BT (5). The link shows a very similar BT 6 as part of a Gresley set.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/modelling/197-gresley-51-1-1-2-steel-panelled-stock

 

The kit is from Bill Bedford (etches only and no bogies or roof) It builds very well, with a few innovations to help in the assembly process. Bogies side frames (10'6'' GCR Fox)were sourced from Shapeways as 3d printed models, they also came with a useful selection of GC buffers. The bogie itself was scratch built as will be the roof.

 

Unfortunately for myself, I assembled the ends to the sides with jumper cables, train alarm gear etc in place. It was only then that I realized that the ends provided were matchboarded, when the carriage under construction had panelled and beaded ends. After much thought about filling the matchboarding and soldering on beading around the existing furniture, I decided to bite the bullet and unsolder the various bits and bobs, detach the ends from the sides, flip them over, re attach them and thus providing a blank canvas to re-atached the furniture and the new beading. There are a couple of things to add, lamp brackets and a bit of brake gear but the final bit of construction is the roof.

 

 

 

Lovely work on the GC brake third! Interesting to see that you've used 3D printed bogie side frames.

 

I've been working on my N gauge 51' carriages and built the first pair of 8'6 bogies today (minus footboards).

 

 

These were made up from 2mm Association etches, but fitted with their N gauge wheelsets.

 

Here is the current state of my four compartment brake third.