Wright writes.....

[john new]

16 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello John

 

No doubt too late for your club now, but I have just looked at the S&D summer Saturday timetable, and it looks about balanced to me.

 

In the morning, it was eight trains south and 11 north; in the afternoon, it was 15 south and 11 north.

 

That excludes branch trains and light engines etc but includes 'local' trains. Of course, the number of trains could vary depending on which summer Saturday one chose to look at.

 

Brian

Interesting. 

 

Way back now since I did it (Probably early 1990s). I must have the timetable still. Memory plays tricks so it probably was the other way round, but definitely my memory is of there being the tidal flow.  I recall it made sense at the time with the long distance services and the Saturday change-over day factor in hotels and B&Bs.

 

Probably does make more sense for the returners leaving Bournemouth in the morning with the southbound, incoming guests, in the afternoon evening. Apologies for the dodgy memory.

 

Living at the seaside for the last 33 years (Portland, Dorset) one of the noticeable changes has been the lessening impact of Saturday as changeover day. Obviously it still happens but less noticeably; back in the day certain roads were to be avoided on Saturday mornings going out (and the converse) but less so now. Thursday and Friday are becoming the problem days to avoid.

Edited October 1, 2019 by john new

[BMacdermott]

Hello John

 

I will PM you a scan of the 1961 workings from my book.

 

Brian

[grahame]

I like the idea of grey overcast sky scenics although that can quite dull the look. This layout is set in the winter and is effectively modelled: 

 

I tend to find that snow scene layouts often look a little like cake decorations. Snow is so transitory and short lived (in the UK) turning to dirty mush and melting quite quickly that it must be difficult to model it and capture the nuances well. And of course trains don't often run in heavy snow.

 

I guess many don't consider a season to set their layout in and simply model the scene as when they would have been out and about to observe, enjoy and experience the railway - i.e. unlikely to have been in the pouring rain or falling snow or freezing cold. 

 

 

[john new]

10 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello John

 

I will PM you a scan of the 1961 workings from my book.

 

Brian

Thank you.

[Barry Ten]

This was my attempt a grey, overcast valleys day on my old Paynestown layout, since sold. Andy Y added some Photoshop smoke and extended the foreground slightly.

 

 

Al

[rockershovel]

The “County Gate” exhibition layout displayed great attention to this, being set on a single day 

 

 

Bratton Fleming, by the same builder featured some of the best “snow” I’ve ever seen, but the general level of foliage and depth if snow put me more in mind of Oregon or British Columbia..

Edited October 1, 2019 by rockershovel

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Corbs said:

I've previously attempted to model water spillage running down the side of a saddle tank using glue 'n glaze. It looked good to begin with, but unfortunately has faded over time. 

Have you had any luck with a different material, Tony?

The moment the correct bridge is completed, I'll get filming!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Jonathan & Tony (Dibateg)

 

Many thanks for the excellent photos.

 

I have just remembered an article on this subject that might interest some...Chalked Up (Peter Johnson, MRJ No.152 2004). On the following pages to that was an article by Paul Jarman entitled Destinations and Deliveries (which detailed trader paper labels).

 

As far as I can tell, such paper labels - about A4 size I guess - only became ubiquitous from about 1961; perhaps someone can give a date? (Note 'ubiquitous' there.)

 

From my observations (which aren't 'scientific') of vans/wagons during the late 1950s, I found:

Circa 40% of were unmarked (or so faded as to be virtually invisible);

Circa 60% had some form of marking (very clear, faded or both)

Circa 10% were literally covered in them.

 

As noted in Peter Johnson's article, road numbers for shunting were frequently on the very lower part of van body ends and sides, having been applied by a shunter at track level. 

 

The subject could do with a lot of detailed research - but one of the difficulties is that many photos are taken at such acute angles, it is impossible to see any markings. Many of the David Larkin photos were taken from the later 1960s, which doesn't help the 1950s' modeller.

 

Brian

Edited October 1, 2019 by BMacdermott
Spelling

[Tony Wright]

49 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

This was my attempt a grey, overcast valleys day on my old Paynestown layout, since sold. Andy Y added some Photoshop smoke and extended the foreground slightly.

 

 

Al

Thanks Al,

 

At least your terrace has guttering which would work, sash windows which open the right way and flaunching on the chimney stacks. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[PMP]

1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

I tend to find that snow scene layouts often look a little like cake decorations. Snow is so transitory and short lived (in the UK) turning to dirty mush and melting quite quickly that it must be difficult to model it and capture the nuances well. And of course trains don't often run in heavy snow.

 

 

‘Shirebrook ‘ looks excellent, I’m hoping to see that on the circuit sometime. I agree that snow often looks like cake icing, @Barry Ten did a nice effective scene on his layout that captured snow really well. As far as the snow melt period goes Mike Confalone in the states has captured New England ‘mud season’ brilliantly. Many UK modellers don’t see overseas modelling of interest, being too parochial, and subsequently miss out on really good techniques and modelling.

[jwealleans]

4 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Chalked Up (Peter Johnson, MRJ No.152 2004)

 

Yes, that's where I got my initial inspiration from.  I struggled to find many photos as I tend to do the chalk marks as part of the weathering process, after which vehicles go off the bench and into a stock box without passing in front of the camera. 

 

Tony's V2 photo on the previous page shows a fine example of a trader's label on the leading van (as well as some replacement/repainted planks) and some very visible chalk marks on the third vehicle.

[Tony Wright]

Regarding rainy depictions (or approaching rain, anyway), when Rob Kinsey built Merthryr Riverside in EM, he asked me to paint a typical South Wales Valleys' backscene; which I did!

 

The different colours/effects are caused by the use of different cameras and different lighting at different times.....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most observers (most recently at STEAM, Swindon), seemed to think it looked 'realistic'. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[CCGWR]

16 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

You may always ask a question, David (even though it takes up my time in answering questions and assisting folk - sorry, my poor attempt at irony!) 

 

Wiggly pipes? Yes, they're present on the smokeboxes of most ex-LNER locos. What they actually do, I have no idea - oil atomising pipes? No two locos appear to have exactly the same arrangement - some have more bends, and other conduits go straighter. 

 

 

Bachmann certainly don't fit them as a detail on their A1s, yet they're very visible. The smokebox looks 'naked' without them!

 

 

Neither do they fit them on their A2s (nor the cylinder draincock-operating wire or electric lighting cable). It's a pity there's a seam line at the bottom of this model's boiler. 

 

 

Hornby actually does represent them, but there are too many on the firm's A3s. The higher valve was only present on the non-driving side, but Hornby puts it on both sides. On this model, I just carved off the top valve/conduit and made a proper bottom one from some 5 Amp fusewire. 

 

 

I really think they're essential on any ER loco, whether RTR or kit-built. Obviously, it's easier in metal, because the whole lot can be soldered. On this DJH A1, I've made the 'valves' from different-length handrail pillars, and the wiggly pipes themselves from 5 Amp fusewire. It's simplified, but effective. I also add the conduit up to the top electric lamp, again made from 5 Amp fusewire. 

 

 

Observation of the prototype will tell you where the wiggly pipes go. Just a 'representation' is enough to make the eye believe it's 'right'.  

 

 

Don't forget there's also a wiggly pipe running from the back end of the vacuum ejector pipe in front of the cab, draining through the footplate ahead of the Cartazzi keep on this side. Again, I made this from 5 Amp fusewire.

 

I hope all this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

These photos look fantastic Tony as others have commented. I particularly like the oily look of the valve gear on 'Hale O' The Wynd' and 'Cock of the North,' looks like a real locomotive. How was this achieved?

 

Regards Connor

[dibber25]

On 01/10/2019 at 08:13, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Chris,

 

How good to hear from you. 

 

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question, though, as you surmise, it could well be to do with water treatment. 'Chromate' is a salt of chromic acid (which doesn't sound too healthy), which is also linked with lead (another dodgy-to-health substance). 

 

The LNER and its successors never had any water-treatment plants on the grand scale (unlike the LMS, which did) and briquettes of something or other would be dropped into the tender tanks to soften the water (rather like on the Bulleids, which had a separate lid for this). Certainly Top Shed, which got its water from the nearby canal, suffered from hard water, as did any of the ER/NER depots northwards in the limestone belts. 60518 was a long-time Tyneside-based loco, until she went to York in 1960, so I'd suspect the picture was taken between 1960 and 1962, when she was dumped at Scarborough. Though rated RA9, the line to Hull never saw many Pacifics, so it's likely to be a test-run. Can you post the picture on here, please? I'm not familiar with it.

 

Speaking of soft water, older locos allocated to Scotland often had boilers fitted which were 40 years old - unheard of further south. 

 

Perhaps a chemist will answer your question for us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Here's one of the two pictures. There's a 'coming towards' shot as well as the going away. I did wonder, at first, if it was a bit of mischief in Photoshop but the fact that there's some sort of saloon behind the loco seems to confirm that it would have been a test of some sort. I guess nothing that was added to water in tenders was likely to be drinkable, so presumably to warrant this size of warning it must have been particularly dangerous.  I don't know who the original photographer or poster of this picture of 60518 was, but I assume as he was seeking answers to a question he won't mind it being copied to a site where the answer might be found. For the benefit of anyone who wonders, I'm not going to be drawn on the subject of the Metcalfe cottage article.  (CJL)

Edited October 4, 2019 by dibber25
to remove possible ambiguity/misunderstanding.

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, CCGWR said:

 

These photos look fantastic Tony as others have commented. I particularly like the oily look of the valve gear on 'Hale O' The Wynd' and 'Cock of the North,' looks like a real locomotive. How was this achieved?

 

Regards Connor

Thanks Connor,

 

After I've thoroughly-tested a new locomotive when it's completed, I put it to one side prior to painting for a little time (whoever is painting it; me, Ian Rathbone or Geoff Haynes). I make sure all the valve gear/motion works smoothly, without oil to start with. It's then oiled, and, as already mentioned, thoroughly-tested and then put to one side. 

 

Before painting the loco body, after a little time, I then paint the valve gear/motion. By now, any oil will have spread a little, and not be in any quantity. Using a thin sable (not the best!), I then paint all the valve gear/motion with a mixture of enamel matt black, dark brown/leather, a variety of greys and, in some cases, white. I just mix the paint on a bit of scrap plastic and apply it evenly. Obviously, it then dries (in the main) matt. Now, here's the trick (if it is a trick); I then apply plenty of oil, letting it creep along all the rods and motion, particularly in the area of the slidebars/crossheads. 

 

What looks more like oily valve gear than oily valve gear?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Barry Ten]

29 minutes ago, PMP said:

‘Shirebrook ‘ looks excellent, I’m hoping to see that on the circuit sometime. I agree that snow often looks like cake icing, @Barry Ten did a nice effective scene on his layout that captured snow really well. As far as the snow melt period goes Mike Confalone in the states has captured New England ‘mud season’ brilliantly. Many UK modellers don’t see overseas modelling of interest, being too parochial, and subsequently miss out on really good techniques and modelling.

 

My winter scene went through a couple of iterations:

 

This first try (at an early stage) used an airbrushed backscene supposedly set at dawn or dusk

with that pinky glow on the horizon. The snow-lined hills with a dark  hedge line along the top were 

copied from Ivo Peters photos.

 

 

Later I reworked the backscene to give a slightly more neutral colour cast, with just a hint of rose in

the sky hues:

 

 

 

The scene could look quite effective under blue light, to simulate moonlit evenings:

 

 

However one problem highlighted by all these pics is that, like real snow, it was a pain to photograph! I don't know if

it was the colour temperature of the fluorescent tube, or my lack of skill with the exposure and white balance settings on

my camera, even using manual white balance with a sheet of reference card, but I was never satisfied with any of the

photos. I'm sure Tony would have coped.

 

I scrapped the snow scene last year as I reworked a large area of the layout and it had to be completely redeveloped to

make way for a double junction. I'd also inadvertently used about a ton of plaster on the foreground hill, which had caused

problems with the mounting brackets for the layout.

 

All in all it was nice while it lasted but I won't be in a rush to do a snow scene again. My wife was cross when I got

rid of it, though.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Barry Ten

[grahame]

13 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Here's one of the two pictures. There's a 'coming towards' shot as well as the going away. I did wonder, at first, if it was a bit of mischief in Photoshop but the fact that there's some sort of saloon behind the loco seems to confirm that it would have been a test of some sort. I guess nothing that was added to water in tenders was likely to be drinkable, so presumably to warrant this size of warning it must have been particularly dangerous. 

 

 

There' some interesting information about chromate on wikipedia including this: "Chromates and dichromates are used in chrome plating to protect metals from corrosion and to improve paint adhesion. Chromate and dichromate salts of heavy metals, lanthanides and alkaline earth metals are only very slightly soluble in water and are thus used as pigments. All hexavalent chromium compounds are toxic due to their oxidizing power. They may be carcinogenic, especially when airborne. The use of chromate compounds in manufactured goods is restricted in the EU (and by market commonality the rest of the world) by EU Parliament directive on the Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directive (2002/95/EC). "

[dibber25]

Just now, grahame said:

 

There' some interesting information about chromate on wikipedia including this: "Chromates and dichromates are used in chrome plating to protect metals from corrosion and to improve paint adhesion. Chromate and dichromate salts of heavy metals, lanthanides and alkaline earth metals are only very slightly soluble in water and are thus used as pigments. All hexavalent chromium compounds are toxic due to their oxidizing power. They may be carcinogenic, especially when airborne. The use of chromate compounds in manufactured goods is restricted in the EU (and by market commonality the rest of the world) by EU Parliament directive on the Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directive (2002/95/EC). "

Now I remember why I dropped chemistry at school and did biology instead! (CJL)

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Here's one of the two pictures. There's a 'coming towards' shot as well as the going away. I did wonder, at first, if it was a bit of mischief in Photoshop but the fact that there's some sort of saloon behind the loco seems to confirm that it would have been a test of some sort. I guess nothing that was added to water in tenders was likely to be drinkable, so presumably to warrant this size of warning it must have been particularly dangerous. For the benefit of anyone who wonders, I'm not going to be drawn on the subject of the Metcalfe cottage article.  I don't know who the original photographer or poster of this picture was, but I assume as he was seeking answers to a question he won't mind it being copied to a site where the answer might be found.  (CJL)

Thanks Chris,

 

I've never seen anything like this before. Has anyone else? 

 

I wonder if the loco is even in use. The aspect of the leading cab window is the 'wrong way round', in that it's open - most unusual. TEHRAN itself was withdrawn in November 1962, before being cut up at Doncaster in April 1963. Could this scene be during the severe winter of early 1963, with the loco already withdrawn, but part of a test? If the 'POISON CHROMATE' is not a fake, then the loco would never have been used in revenue-earning service. The loco's in mid-gear, so was there another loco at the other end of the train? 

 

The leading car is definitely an inspection saloon of some kind, but it's old and shabby - usually, inspection saloons were kept in clean condition. 

 

I really have no idea. Does anyone, please? 

 

Thanks also for the clarification on the article.

 

Best regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chuffer Davies]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Chris,

 

I've never seen anything like this before. Has anyone else? 

 

I wonder if the loco is even in use. The aspect of the leading cab window is the 'wrong way round', in that it's open - most unusual. TEHRAN itself was withdrawn in November 1962, before being cut up at Doncaster in April 1963. Could this scene be during the severe winter of early 1963, with the loco already withdrawn, but part of a test? If the 'POISON CHROMATE' is not a fake, then the loco would never have been used in revenue-earning service. The loco's in mid-gear, so was there another loco at the other end of the train? 

 

The leading car is definitely an inspection saloon of some kind, but it's old and shabby - usually, inspection saloons were kept in clean condition. 

 

I really have no idea. Does anyone, please? 

 

Thanks also for the clarification on the article.

 

Best regards,

 

Tony. 

It’s also parked up. There is a shovel leaning against the trailing axle box.

Frank

[Tony Wright]

24 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

There' some interesting information about chromate on wikipedia including this: "Chromates and dichromates are used in chrome plating to protect metals from corrosion and to improve paint adhesion. Chromate and dichromate salts of heavy metals, lanthanides and alkaline earth metals are only very slightly soluble in water and are thus used as pigments. All hexavalent chromium compounds are toxic due to their oxidizing power. They may be carcinogenic, especially when airborne. The use of chromate compounds in manufactured goods is restricted in the EU (and by market commonality the rest of the world) by EU Parliament directive on the Restriction of Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directive (2002/95/EC). "

Thanks Grahame,

 

It would look, then, that the test had nothing to do with water softening but, perhaps, paint?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

It’s also parked up. There is a shovel leaning against the trailing axle box.

Frank

And it also looks as if the nameplate (at least on this side) has been removed, which suggests early 1963. When dumped at Scarborough, the autumn before, the 'plates were still on. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Lecorbusier]

I always thought the late Derek Whale's Blackston Junction was a nicely observed winter rendering. .... 

All images: David Brandreth

 

[Clive Mortimore]

54 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Here's one of the two pictures. There's a 'coming towards' shot as well as the going away. I did wonder, at first, if it was a bit of mischief in Photoshop but the fact that there's some sort of saloon behind the loco seems to confirm that it would have been a test of some sort. I guess nothing that was added to water in tenders was likely to be drinkable, so presumably to warrant this size of warning it must have been particularly dangerous. For the benefit of anyone who wonders, I'm not going to be drawn on the subject of the Metcalfe cottage article.  I don't know who the original photographer or poster of this picture was, but I assume as he was seeking answers to a question he won't mind it being copied to a site where the answer might be found.  (CJL)

What I can see of the coach it looks like the York route learning car DE320765 , an ex SK E12033E.

From John Turner's, wonderful flickr collection of coach photos.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Regarding rainy depictions (or approaching rain, anyway), when Rob Kinsey built Merthryr Riverside in EM, he asked me to paint a typical South Wales Valleys' backscene; which I did!

 

The different colours/effects are caused by the use of different cameras and different lighting at different times.....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most observers (most recently at STEAM, Swindon), seemed to think it looked 'realistic'. 

 

 

Hello Tony

 

From my childhood memories of summer holidays in Wales it looks spot on.   See I said most modellers model the summer.

 

It looks very impressive.