Wright writes.....

[Andy Hayter]

Another possibility for the Chromate  marking is that they were used widely as biocides*.  So if tenders were being used less and less as diesels took over their duties, is it possible that algae and other organisms would flourish in the water sitting for weeks, perhaps months in a tender.  Chromate and dichromate would certainly kill such organisms and avoid goodness knows what problems if the water was fed through to the boiler.

 

* I remember having to have wood pallets treated with dichromate for shipments to Australia, where the bio-protection was then and remains today some of the tightest in the world.  I think this ceased when Australia realised that it had a slowly increasing mountain of pallets that were so contaminated that they were difficult to reuse or even destroy.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

And, how would one model those trees?

I don't know, Tony, but in my opinion the man who modelled winter trees better than anyone else was the late George Iliffe Stokes - well over 50 years ago.

[dibber25]

Here's the other picture. Suggestion on the FB page that the tender might be being used for anti-freeze (it's the 1962-3 winter) with the loco and coach effectively as 'barrier' vehicles. If so, surely the tender would have needed some sort of spraying/delivery system? Unless the tender is nothing more than a vaguely mobile storage tank. The loco definitely looks withdrawn, or at least dumped. Photos posted on FB by Norman Hugill, said to be taken at Hull early 1960s by J. Boyes. (CJL)

Edited October 1, 2019 by dibber25
Info added

[Headstock]

Wasn't Poison Chromate. the winner of the 1938 Derby?

[Headstock]

Here's another picture taken from the otherside. Apparently it's a Neville Stead photo taken at Goole.

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/image/catalog/N/S/2/0/NS206572.jpg

[t-b-g]

Perhaps the loco was being prepared for possible conversion of gauge to run on the Hagdale Chromate Railway.

 

There is one I hadn't heard of before!

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Here's the other picture. Suggestion on the FB page that the tender might be being used for anti-freeze (it's the 1962-3 winter) with the loco and coach effectively as 'barrier' vehicles. If so, surely the tender would have needed some sort of spraying/delivery system? Unless the tender is nothing more than a vaguely mobile storage tank. The loco definitely looks withdrawn, or at least dumped. Photos posted on FB by Norman Hugill, said to be taken at Hull early 1960s by J. Boyes. (CJL)

Thanks again Chris,

 

I wonder if anyone would contemplate building a model of 60518 in this condition? 

 

As I said, I've never seen this before. It must be one of the most bizarre manifestations of any Thompson Pacific!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[PMP]

The loco has been moved recently, the leading bogie wheel treads are shiny.

[john new]

23 minutes ago, PMP said:

The loco has been moved recently, the leading bogie wheel treads are shiny.

?? to Goole (Pic 2) then on to Hull (Pic 1) perhaps.

 

Pics as first posted here.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by john new

[SP Steve]

4 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Here's the other picture. Suggestion on the FB page that the tender might be being used for anti-freeze (it's the 1962-3 winter) with the loco and coach effectively as 'barrier' vehicles. If so, surely the tender would have needed some sort of spraying/delivery system? Unless the tender is nothing more than a vaguely mobile storage tank. The loco definitely looks withdrawn, or at least dumped. Photos posted on FB by Norman Hugill, said to be taken at Hull early 1960s by J. Boyes. (CJL)

 

Apparently Potassium Chromate / Potassium Dichromate is added to anti freeze to act as a corrosion inhibitor - at the time of the big freeze in 1962/3, Hull had an allocation of Class 37s whilst Class 124 Transpennine DMUs were also operational in the area so could it be that it was being used as a mobile source to top up their coolant systems? Another consideration might be that as Potassium Chromate isn't conducive to good health then using a withdrawn loco and tender earmarked for scrapping would minimise the risk of contaminating other water supplies.

[James Fitzjames]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Regarding rainy depictions (or approaching rain, anyway), when Rob Kinsey built Merthryr Riverside in EM, he asked me to paint a typical South Wales Valleys' backscene; which I did!

 

The different colours/effects are caused by the use of different cameras and different lighting at different times.....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most observers (most recently at STEAM, Swindon), seemed to think it looked 'realistic'. 

 

 

As a former resident of Merthyr, that sky is absolutely bang on

[Tony Wright]

7 minutes ago, SP Steve said:

 

Apparently Potassium Chromate / Potassium Dichromate is added to anti freeze to act as a corrosion inhibitor - at the time of the big freeze in 1962/3, Hull had an allocation of Class 37s whilst Class 124 Transpennine DMUs were also operational in the area so could it be that it was being used as a mobile source to top up their coolant systems? Another consideration might be that as Potassium Chromate isn't conducive to good health then using a withdrawn loco and tender earmarked for scrapping would minimise the risk of contaminating other water supplies.

Most interesting,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

If some sort of anti-freeze mixture was in 60518's tender, then the loco would have been most unlikely to move under its own power. So why tow a dead loco around if the contents of the tender were all that was required. It's a real puzzle.

 

By separating the loco from its tender, the contents of the latter could be tapped off by diverting the source from the injectors. Gravity then 'pumping' the contents into whatever containers were needed. Who knows?

 

Thanks to Chris Leigh for showing us all this most-interesting snippet of LNER Pacific history. A snippet I've never seen published before!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[MPR]

5 hours ago, Headstock said:

Wasn't Poison Chromate. the winner of the 1938 Derby?

No, that was 60117.

[APOLLO]

Interesting markings on that A2/3. 

 

Another unusually marked loco here, at it's final destination which is clearly marked !!! Who dares model this ?

 

Look closely at the Presflo - there's a rivet missing !!

 

Brit15

Edited October 1, 2019 by APOLLO
agree with previous post by SP

[timbowilts]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

So why tow a dead loco around if the contents of the tender were all that was required. It's a real puzzle.

It’s no puzzle Tony. Certain necessary appendages such as a drawhook, coupling and buffers are missng from the front of the Tender once it is disconnected from a loco.

Tim T

[Jesse Sim]

13 minutes ago, timbowilts said:

It’s no puzzle Tony. Certain necessary appendages such as a drawhook, coupling and buffers are missng from the front of the Tender once it is disconnected from a loco.

Tim T

Surely there could have been a sludge tender somewhere they could have used instead? As they were fitted with buffers at the loco end of the tender....

 

Those photos were in a Facebook group a couple of days, had lots of people scratching there heads! 

[Tony Wright]

8 minutes ago, timbowilts said:

It’s no puzzle Tony. Certain necessary appendages such as a drawhook, coupling and buffers are missng from the front of the Tender once it is disconnected from a loco.

Tim T

Could be, Tim,

 

Certainly, old tenders were used for jobs such as sludge carriers, and buffers and a drawhook would be fitted at the 'front' end for this purpose. Perhaps a 5,000 gallon tender was needed, and it was just more convenient to tow the 101 tons, 10 cwt of an A2/3 around (for what can only have been a short time), rather than modify the tender; which, interestingly in the picture, appears to be still full of coal. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[dibber25]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks again Chris,

 

I wonder if anyone would contemplate building a model of 60518 in this condition? 

 

As I said, I've never seen this before. It must be one of the most bizarre manifestations of any Thompson Pacific!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

If there was a ready-to-run model, this would make a novel limited edition but the fact that it's a non-runner would work against it. In all my time working on Railway World, Steam Days, Steam World etc I never stumbled across these pictures or the story behind them - and Neville Stead (who lived in Hull IIRC) used to send me 'novelty featurettes' (for want of a better description) on an almost weekly basis at one point! (CJL)

[dibber25]

No, Neville lived in Whitley Bay but he was an avid collector of railway photos related to the North-East. (CJL)

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Headstock said:

Wasn't Poison Chromate. the winner of the 1938 Derby?

I thought that was its half-sister, Poison Ivy.

 

 

 

 

...gone.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Could be, Tim,

 

Certainly, old tenders were used for jobs such as sludge carriers, and buffers and a drawhook would be fitted at the 'front' end for this purpose. Perhaps a 5,000 gallon tender was needed, and it was just more convenient to tow the 101 tons, 10 cwt of an A2/3 around (for what can only have been a short time), rather than modify the tender; which, interestingly in the picture, appears to be still full of coal. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Buffers on the engine end....

Bachmann Group Standard, Based on a Stratford plough. DJH GNR, based on several like one of Hitchin's ploughs. Dave Alexander GER, as found at Ipswich.

 

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, MPR said:

No, that was 60117.

 

Stewards enquiry, suerly not Steve Banks?

[landscapes]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks again Chris,

 

I wonder if anyone would contemplate building a model of 60518 in this condition? 

 

As I said, I've never seen this before. It must be one of the most bizarre manifestations of any Thompson Pacific!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

i always find any discussions about any Thompson Pacific’s very interesting indeed but especially the A2/3 Class.

 

They are a bit like Marmite you either love or hate them and I think reading through exceptionally good threads on RMWeb like your own the hate then camp seems to be winning.

 

I think this is also reflected in railway photography as well, when I received my two completed Graeme King/ Bachman A2/3 conversions I found it very difficult finding good colour photos of the class to use for weathering purposes.

 

I eventually found a nice colour photo in one of Keith Pirt’s fabulous Steam Colour Portfolio Books.

 

Maybe the railway photographers of the 1950’s and 1960’s disliked them as well.

 

my own person opinion is I can’t get enough of all Thompson Pacific’s

 

Regards

 

David 

 

 

[Headstock]

32 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

i always find any discussions about any Thompson Pacific’s very interesting indeed but especially the A2/3 Class.

 

They are a bit like Marmite you either love or hate them and I think reading through exceptionally good threads on RMWeb like your own the hate then camp seems to be winning.

 

I think this is also reflected in railway photography as well, when I received my two completed Graeme King/ Bachman A2/3 conversions I found it very difficult finding good colour photos of the class to use for weathering purposes.

 

I eventually found a nice colour photo in one of Keith Pirt’s fabulous Steam Colour Portfolio Books.

 

Maybe the railway photographers of the 1950’s and 1960’s disliked them as well.

 

my own person opinion is I can’t get enough of all Thompson Pacific’s

 

Regards

 

David 

 

 

 

I don't think that there is any shortage of good colour photographs of Thompson Pacifics, I have about twenty or thirty. My goodness, some of them were filthy, so much so that old Poison Chromate up thread looks quite respectable and some of the LB stud are off to dinner at the Savoy.

 

If there is a bias, then it is more likely to be with the producers of the books rather than with the photographers. In my own experience of researching railway stuff, I would say that there is almost a photograph for everything, it's more about knowing were to look for them. Books rarely come at the top of the list as the best research source. There are a whole host of reasons for this, from technical quality right through to plain old author bias. I look at it this way, the vast majority of railway photographs have never been published.

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Buffers on the engine end....

Bachmann Group Standard, Based on a Stratford plough. DJH GNR, based on several like one of Hitchin's ploughs. Dave Alexander GER, as found at Ipswich.

 

Thanks for posting these, Clive,

 

There were two ex-LNER 4,200 gallon Group Standard tenders at Tinsley for years, one still on the tracks. They were used to store massive batteries. One, ex-V2, had the legend DANGER high voltage current KEEP AWAY painted on its side, and the other, ex-K3, J39, D49 or O2 had a heart-shaped face with a wiggly arrow pointing at it painted on. They appear on page 34 in my Into The Blue, published by Irwell Press.

 

Speaking of Irwell Press, the latest Deltic bookazine should arrive for proof-reading today. It'll be on sale in November.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.