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1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

 

No problem David - what people like in photographs varies as much as what they like in model railways!

You are right that there is a tendency towards more 'painterly' effects in images and of course, preserved railways don't actually look much like BR in the '50's.

 

Tony

A Black 5 and Mark 1 coaches is appropriate for the GCR, a "real train" in preservation. It reminds me of the Marylebone - Nottingham semi-fasts in the early '60s that used to pass at the end of our garden when I was but a lad. Not the Great Central line's finest hour, and the locos were filthy, but I find the photo, whatever effects have been applied, very nostalgic. Thanks for posting.

Jon

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53 minutes ago, Anglian said:

With regards to the numbers I don't think the decal makers are helping as much as they could – it's nigh on impossible to critically align individual digits accurately. It would be a great help if they offered decals of at least some of the numbers correctly aligned and spaced with additional spare numbers to give the modeller a good chance of getting part of the whole number in perfect alignment to serve as a guide for the other individual numbers to be slotted into place.

 

I suspect that you are not buying from the right supplier - whole number sets of transfers are available from more than one producer.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Black 5, MK1, GC, I feel sick. A5, matchboard, GC, I'm starting to feel much better.


I wonder if the modern GCR had not bothered with the bridge and the double track, they could have scraped the black fives and built a GC 4-6-0, perhaps an A5 tank and a batch of matchboards. One can but dream.


On photographs, I don't like clag shots, it just looks like bad driving. However, who ever shot the image did quite a nice job of the photography but I wouldn't employ the retoucher.

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The most wonderful photographs of the last days of the old Great Central main line were taken by the late Colin Walker. I can thoroughly recommend his books Main Line Lament, Great Central Twilight and Great Central Twilight Finale. He also did a couple of ECML / WR steam books - just as good if not better than his GC ones. I have them all - my treasures.

 

I believe Colin was an art school teacher at Leicester. In his book Main Line Lament is an absolutely wonderful description of a footplate ride on A3 60104 Solario from Marylebone to Leicester on the early morning newspaper train.  This is his photo of that train from the book (off the net).

 

5419912192_65b27ce52a_b.jpg

 

It is this book Main Line Lament that got me into LNER steam !!

 

Brit15

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8 hours ago, Headstock said:

On photographs, I don't like clag shots, it just looks like bad driving. However, who ever shot the image did quite a nice job of the photography but I wouldn't employ the retoucher.

 

Ah, bitter sweet!

They are one and the same.

:rolleyes:

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41 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Ah, bitter sweet!

They are one and the same.

:rolleyes:

 

Morning Tony,

 

It's my job, so I wouldn't knock yourself out about it. I can spot digital joins at thirty yards.

On the other hand, unlike many, I don't decry digital or traditional effects, if done well on a photograph. The idear that there is some sort of genuine, proper, photographic reality is a bit of a nonsense.

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10 hours ago, Headstock said:

Black 5, MK1, GC, I feel sick. A5, matchboard, GC, I'm starting to feel much better.


I wonder if the modern GCR had not bothered with the bridge and the double track, they could have scraped the black fives and built a GC 4-6-0, perhaps an A5 tank and a batch of matchboards. One can but dream.


On photographs, I don't like clag shots, it just looks like bad driving. However, who ever shot the image did quite a nice job of the photography but I wouldn't employ the retoucher.

I would have loved to have seen the London Extension in better times, my family moved next to it just 2 months before the expresses were taken off. It was a sadly run down railway in the early 60's, but to be positive, living right by it really encouraged my interest in all things railway. 

Jon

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36 minutes ago, Long John Silver said:

I would have loved to have seen the London Extension in better times, my family moved next to it just 2 months before the expresses were taken off. It was a sadly run down railway in the early 60's, but to be positive, living right by it really encouraged my interest in all things railway. 

Jon

 

Good morning Long John, AHARGGHH.

 

I was thinking of the modeling of it rather than your personal memories, A black 5 and a Mk1 train is pretty generic to a whole host of locations. There is nothing particularly special about it with regards to the GC, a symbol of the sad state of affairs at the end perhaps.

 

The original proposal for LSGC was to use the stock from Tebay and populate it with Black 5's and Royal Scots's. A number of us said, 'are you having a laugh'. Why chose the GC as a subject, if your going to ignore what made it individual. Why not model the Midland mainline instead? It is often quite difficult to pries people, like limpets away from there beloved late fifties early sixties time period, even if they have never visited a particularly location. In the case of the

London extension, only the 1970's would have been worse. There is nothing wrong with modeling the late 50's early 60's. However, it's not the most appropriate time period for the GC, due to the obliteration of it's individual identity and the sadness of its ultimate fate. Ultimatly, it would have been a boring model.

Edited by Headstock
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Very well said. The GC is the GC and should be remembered and portrayed as such, not as some detested and deliberately destroyed latter-day annex of London Midland Region.

 

I'd amplify the implied point about an overload of boring clone-modelling of late 50s / early 60s.......

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Morning Andrew me hearty, you're absolutely right in modelling terms. Interesting to hear about the original Leicester South proposal, I think Black 5s and Scots looked better on the WCML, and the GC was much more interesting before the LMR took it over. LSGC is a wonderfully evocative model of better and more interesting times.  Still I think those formative years are important to remember. I think if I was 10 years older my modelling interests might well have focused on the GC. I still like Black Fives though and in the spirit of Tony's thread I attach a photo, not great I'm afraid of one of mine, a DJH kitbuild that was my "millenium project".It has a Mashima 1624 motor and Comet gearbox and is intended to represent one of the Swansea Paxton Street allocation. I'm sure it has a few errors, Black 5s are a minefield, but it runs well. 

ATB

Jon (no parrot, just tall and white haired)

Swansea_Mail_passes_Llanfaes_Carriage_Sidings.JPG

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26 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Very well said. The GC is the GC and should be remembered and portrayed as such, not as some detested and deliberately destroyed latter-day annex of London Midland Region.

 

I'd amplify the implied point about an overload of boring clone-modelling of late 50s / early 60s.......

I don't disagree with you, the point I was making, perhaps not very well, was that even a rundown railway that was a shadow of its' former self could be inspiring to a youngster and lead to a lifelong interest in railways. I wish I'd known it in better times but I'm glad I knew it. The WCML wasn't at its' best in the early 60s either.

ATB

Jon

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2 hours ago, Long John Silver said:

Morning Andrew me hearty, you're absolutely right in modelling terms. Interesting to hear about the original Leicester South proposal, I think Black 5s and Scots looked better on the WCML, and the GC was much more interesting before the LMR took it over. LSGC is a wonderfully evocative model of better and more interesting times.  Still I think those formative years are important to remember. I think if I was 10 years older my modelling interests might well have focused on the GC. I still like Black Fives though and in the spirit of Tony's thread I attach a photo, not great I'm afraid of one of mine, a DJH kitbuild that was my "millenium project".It has a Mashima 1624 motor and Comet gearbox and is intended to represent one of the Swansea Paxton Street allocation. I'm sure it has a few errors, Black 5s are a minefield, but it runs well. 

ATB

Jon (no parrot, just tall and white haired)

Swansea_Mail_passes_Llanfaes_Carriage_Sidings.JPG

 

Afternoon Jon,

 

I will leave the Pirates out on the Spanish Main.

 

How pleasant to see your very own Black five, an LMS one at that. What's the saying? A DJH Black five on the layout is worth twenty Hornbys on the shop shelf, something like that.

 

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On 02/10/2019 at 19:16, landscapes said:

Good Evening Tony

 

Following the recent discussions regarding Thompson's A2/3 Class I enclose a photo of some of my Haymarket based locomotives with a photoshopped background.

 

I am afraid they are all RTR models with the possible exception of A2/3 60511 Airborne which is a G King/Bachmann Conversion.

 

Still lots of work to do to the layout but that doesn't stop me trying to take cameo photos as and where I can.

 

I cannot stay true to the prototype layout due to lack of information of surrounding area's and the space required to replicate the entire MPD at 4mm scale.

 

Regards

 

David

60027_IMG_0437B.jpg

Very nice shot of some of your 64B locos.

Cant help noticing 60012 poking its nose out of the shed and thought I would post this pic of my own Hornby detailed and weathered example with a question/request for information regarding its whistle.

The loco is a Hornby A4 originally Merlin so tender correct for 'Commonwealth' and includes the extra strip along nthe bottom from Coronation days which is required as Tony has correctly pointed out.

It also has the aws pipework added along the edge of the running plate that all post '59 A4s should have but seldom seem to be included by modellers.

Weathered and closer bar coupling fitted to tender completes the picture..but..the whistle is wrong for post '59 as no12 received Western Australian Railway whistle atvthat time.

I have many photographs of number 12 from the early '60s and all show the different whistle but not in sufficient detail to allow me to model this.

Does anyone have a decent high res pic that would allow close up?

I doubt it would be difficult to reproduce if I knew what it actually looked like! 

Fingers crossed for a pic.

 

Thanks

Dave.

IMG_0369-1.jpg

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This is an appeal for help for a poorly engine.

 

My A8 - of which I am very fond - well it may not be the best but it's all mine - has encountered a mishap, and I cannot find my original construction documents.
It uses a Comet two-stage gear box with extender. and the idler gear directly beneath the worm has partially stripped (or at least worn very heavily.)

 

Post_15.JPG.12c9a04a5b38cbd4946776e649134d1c.JPG

 

I am not sure what the specification of the gearbox is. It is certainly a Comet design, and (I think) is either a GB3/20 or a GB5/20.
Before I contact Wizard Models (who I think have taken on the illustrious mantle of Comet) I would be very grateful as to which the gearbox is, and also (if possible) what the dimensions of the idler gear are.

 

I should point out that until its recent accident (involving the CE Department not properly clearing the line after a track possession in the one place on the railway where a de-railed vehicle could fall all the way to the floor) it has been running very well since 2012. The obvious damage to its front buffer beam was easily repaired, and this gear problem has only shown itself three weeks later.

 

 

Edited by drmditch
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11 minutes ago, drmditch said:

This is an appeal for help for a poorly engine.

 

My A8 - of which I am very fond - well it may not be the best but it's all mine - has encountered a mishap, and I cannot find my original construction documents.
It uses a Comet two-stage gear box with extender. and the idler gear directly beneath the worm has partially stripped (or at least worn very heavily.)

 

Post_15.JPG.12c9a04a5b38cbd4946776e649134d1c.JPG

 

I am not sure what the specification of the gearbox is. It is certainly a Comet design, and (I think) is either a GB3/20 or a GB5/20.
Before I contact Wizard Models (who I think have taken on the illustrious mantle of Comet) I would be very grateful as to which the gearbox is, and also (if possible) what the dimensions of the idler gear are.

 

I should point out that until its recent accident (involving the CE Department not properly clearing the line after a track possession in the one place on the railway where a de-railed vehicle could fall all the way to the floor) it has been running very well since 2012. The obvious damage to its front buffer beam was easily repaired, and this gear problem has only shown itself three weeks later.

 

 

 

I'm afraid that I cannot identify the gearbox, but I am concerned about the gear having stripped.

 

Two scenarios suggest themselves :-

 

1] the fall is coincidental, and the seven years' running has worn out the gear - which may point to too tight a mesh between the worm and gear;

 

2] the fall distorted the gearbox, resulting in a misaligned or too tight mesh between worm and gear.

 

In either case, some investigation into meshing is indicated, rather than just a simple replacement of the gear.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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12 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I'm afraid that I cannot identify the gearbox, but I am concerned about the gear having stripped.

 

Two scenarios suggest themselves :-

 

1] the fall is coincidental, and the seven years' running has worn out the gear - which may point to too tight a mesh between the worm and gear;

 

2] the fall distorted the gearbox, resulting in a misaligned or too tight mesh between worm and gear.

 

In either case, some investigation into meshing is indicated, rather than just a simple replacement of the gear.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Thank you. I have done some of that. The fall being merely coincidental had occurred to me. The motor and gearbox are well protected in a heavy white metal body, and there was no (apparent) damage to the body, wheels or drive chain. To twist the gearbox should surely resulted in more visible damage. However, shock damage can not be ruled out. Most of my locomotive construction uses two-stage Comet boxes, and, once assembled, fettled, and run in I have not had this happen before.

 

The gear in question does have a hole for a grub-screw in the centre of the teeth, and it is here that that the teeth failed, the rest of them are intact and providing drive.  The grub-screw was not in place and had never been used, but the gear must have been weaker at that point. 

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What a superb railway the old GC line was, until the rot set in the early 60's. At least it was mostly steam worked to the end.

 

The choice of locomotives, especially on the Leicester to Nottingham bit was enormous. LMS LNER & a smattering of GW Halls, etc. Up to the end of Eastern region rule A3's were common (and Flying Scotsman was allocated to a shed on this line for a spell - Leicester ?) Lots of cross country trains. York - Bournemouth (which ran on the very last day, Class 47 hauled), Marylebone - Sheffield - Manchester / Liverpool expresses etc but the real stars were the fast goods trains, the Annesley to Woodford Windcutters (sometimes also known as Runners). In latter days 9F hauled but Black 8's and LNER 2-8-0's were also used.

 

This is a wonderful website, tons of photos and info.  http://www.annesleyfireman.com   Scroll down for some superb photos of very varied locos. A REAL railway !!

 

Years ago my first OO layout was a crude attempt at Sheffield Victoria with 4 Tri-ang EM2's. A later layout in a large spare bedroom was based on Leicester Central and my current OO loft layout is loosely based on a fictional town north of Nottingham, GN / GC / MR based - This gives me lots of loco choice, though I have brought forward the date to allow blue / grey stock & blue diesels (with proper numbers !).

 

Now this is a bit of a find on the web - A blue EE Type 1 (class 20) double headed passing south through Nottingham Victoria - Never thought I'd see a photo of an EE Type 1 at the Vic, nevermind two, and ones a Blue un !! Gives my layout a bit more street cred !!

 

29499610683_31b6ca7a9f_b.jpg

 

More here  https://www.flickr.com/photos/llangollen_signalman/albums/72157673521188241/with/29499610063/

 

Edited to add - I think the above shot is after Victoria closed in 1967 but prior to demolition and track lifting that left only two through lines for a couple of years as below. Perhaps 1968 ? 

 

c763bd2d245420ffcd1f5a480b970bf0.jpg

 

Brit15

 

Edited by APOLLO
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27 minutes ago, drmditch said:

 

Thank you. I have done some of that. The fall being merely coincidental had occurred to me. The motor and gearbox are well protected in a heavy white metal body, and there was no (apparent) damage to the body, wheels or drive chain. To twist the gearbox should surely resulted in more visible damage. However, shock damage can not be ruled out. Most of my locomotive construction uses two-stage Comet boxes, and, once assembled, fettled, and run in I have not had this happen before.

 

The gear in question does have a hole for a grub-screw in the centre of the teeth, and it is here that that the teeth failed, the rest of them are intact and providing drive.  The grub-screw was not in place and had never been used, but the gear must have been weaker at that point. 

Sorry to hear of your woes with the low-flying loco - been there, done that in the past :(

 

Can you get the idler out without dismantling the whole gearbox? From the photo, its shaft should just press out? Is it merely an interference fit in the cheeks? If you can, then it should be straightforward to measure it, which would help whoever you use to hopefully supply a spare.

 

FWIW I have a Brassmasters Deeley  0-4-0T which has suffered a stripped gearwheel. Mine, though, is going to involve removing the valve gear and cylinders to access the leading axle, and it's all soldered together...

 

It's on the 'roundtuit list'...

 

Mark

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5 hours ago, vitalspark said:

Very nice shot of some of your 64B locos.

Cant help noticing 60012 poking its nose out of the shed and thought I would post this pic of my own Hornby detailed and weathered example with a question/request for information regarding its whistle.

The loco is a Hornby A4 originally Merlin so tender correct for 'Commonwealth' and includes the extra strip along nthe bottom from Coronation days which is required as Tony has correctly pointed out.

It also has the aws pipework added along the edge of the running plate that all post '59 A4s should have but seldom seem to be included by modellers.

Weathered and closer bar coupling fitted to tender completes the picture..but..the whistle is wrong for post '59 as no12 received Western Australian Railway whistle atvthat time.

I have many photographs of number 12 from the early '60s and all show the different whistle but not in sufficient detail to allow me to model this.

Does anyone have a decent high res pic that would allow close up?

I doubt it would be difficult to reproduce if I knew what it actually looked like! 

Fingers crossed for a pic.

 

Thanks

Dave.

IMG_0369-1.jpg

These are the works drawings for NSW Crosby whistles-I believe the WAGR whistle was the same.

1.JPG

2.JPG

3.JPG

4.JPG

5.JPG

6.JPG

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5 hours ago, drmditch said:

The gear in question does have a hole for a grub-screw in the centre of the teeth, and it is here that that the teeth failed, the rest of them are intact and providing drive.  The grub-screw was not in place and had never been used, but the gear must have been weaker at that point. 

 

How odd !

 

Never come across that before - thank goodness. A hole through the gear teeth is a major weakness; lets hope that the replacement does not have the same feature.

 

I would send your photos to Comet and order a replacement gear - without the grub-screw hole !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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38 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

These are the works drawings for NSW Crosby whistles-I believe the WAGR whistle was the same.

1.JPG

2.JPG

3.JPG

4.JPG

5.JPG

6.JPG

Thank you for these comprehensive drawings they are very informative and as dimensions given will be huge help.

 

I take it the operating lever would be at the rear so although this will be absent it does give me dimensions.

 

Thanks again

 

Dave.

 

 

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6 hours ago, vitalspark said:

Very nice shot of some of your 64B locos.

Cant help noticing 60012 poking its nose out of the shed and thought I would post this pic of my own Hornby detailed and weathered example with a question/request for information regarding its whistle.

The loco is a Hornby A4 originally Merlin so tender correct for 'Commonwealth' and includes the extra strip along nthe bottom from Coronation days which is required as Tony has correctly pointed out.

It also has the aws pipework added along the edge of the running plate that all post '59 A4s should have but seldom seem to be included by modellers.

Weathered and closer bar coupling fitted to tender completes the picture..but..the whistle is wrong for post '59 as no12 received Western Australian Railway whistle atvthat time.

I have many photographs of number 12 from the early '60s and all show the different whistle but not in sufficient detail to allow me to model this.

Does anyone have a decent high res pic that would allow close up?

I doubt it would be difficult to reproduce if I knew what it actually looked like! 

Fingers crossed for a pic.

 

Thanks

Dave.

IMG_0369-1.jpg

Hi Dave

 

thank you for your kind comment, as I write this reply I am up in London for a family birthday party.

 

when I get back home tomorrow I will have a look through my photos of 60012 and will contact you if I find a suitable photo that you can use.

 

I am assuming you would like details of the Australian whistle?

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

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On 06/10/2019 at 00:16, landscapes said:

Hi Dave

 

thank you for your kind comment, as I write this reply I am up in London for a family birthday party.

 

when I get back home tomorrow I will have a look through my photos of 60012 and will contact you if I find a suitable photo that you can use.

 

I am assuming you would like details of the Australian whistle?

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

 

David I have just received your pm and excellent photos and have replied.

Thank you again and thank you JRG for the detailed drawings and now with Landscapes detailed photograph I can go ahead and try to bodge something up!

Should have posted here for help weeks ago but spent time researching this myself with little success.

RMWeb and the forums at their very best.

Thanks guys.

 

Dave.

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On 05/10/2019 at 18:06, APOLLO said:

Edited to add - I think the above shot is after Victoria closed in 1967 but prior to demolition and track lifting that left only two through lines for a couple of years as below. Perhaps 1968 ? 

I hate seeing Nottingham Victoria in this condition. Even in later days when I visited the station and the lack of traffic made it very quiet, I still had that feeling of awe at the sheer space and atmosphere. It was like being in a cathedral dedicated to all that was great in railway architecture. I avoided the demolition. How I still miss its presence in this city, over 50 years gone.

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The posting by JRG1 of the NSWGR chime whistle prompted me to share  this video from Youtube. 3265, one of the preserved NSWGR P class ran a tour yesterday to Kiama on the Illawarra line and return. I went on the tour with some mates and even persuaded my wife to some along. 3265 is shown arriving at Sutherland and again departing with the beautiful tones of the whistle sounding as she leaves. I may model the GWR but to me this is one of the most beautiful whistle sounds around.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Craigw
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