Wright writes.....

[Chamby]

40 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

End of steam - a sad era for many, yet what replaced steam back then is mostly history right now. I'm not knocking Tony's era - far from it - but I was a small lad back then and have virtually no memories of it. It really was "Death Steam" for me !!

 

The railway, like our hobby, never stops evolving - though some of us (self included) tend to get stuck in a time warp !!

 

Brit15

 

My main modelling interest is 1949/50 GC, but I must confess to also having a developing sideline in blue/grey Western region stuff, and the clay industry in the late 70’s to mid 1980’s; this has developed since relocating to Cornwall four years ago.  I enjoy the diversity, and have greater recollection of blue diesels than the end of steam, though I try hard to keep tight to the prototypical time/place for both eras.  

 

I only have the space for one layout though, so for now the incongruous sight of ‘William Cookworthy’ hauling a bogie hopper clay train on the GCLE has to suffice... but only behind closed doors of course, when no-one else is looking.  I suspect we all have our secrets!

[Craigw]

10 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I think this is a model of the same c;lass?

 

 

I'm guessing it will be familiar to Australian contributors as it was one of several models in a display at a Sydney museum I visited in 2006.

 

Most of them had the look of being made from kits - perhaps someone can suggest the likely origins? I don't remember there being any explanatory

information on the display, but they looked like lovely models of fascinating prototypes.

 

Some more below:

 

 

 

 

 

 

cheers,

 

Al

 

 

Al, 

 

I am fairly sure that these models are from the collection of Neil Cram a local gent (and gentleman really does apply to Neil) who has built up a collection of locomotives and rolling stock. some are kits, some are brass imports (very common here at one time) while a good number are commissioned scratch builds. There are a few might have beens in the collection too. Sadly, Neil donated this collection  to the museum  mentioned and I think it is now in storage because or Museum of "Applied arts and sciences" has been hijacked and is more interested in social history now.

 

The 32 model in the photo is a reframed one (which actually dates from  1937) while the maroon livery was applied to 3265 and a few others in about 1933. To many local modellers a 32 class is a 32 class and there is little appreciation of some of the differences between the class members. I am sure this sounds familiar!  The majority of NSW steam kits were produced by DJH and commissioned by local companies. The early ones (including the 32) are a bit dire, while the later ones are not too bad. Most are currently out of production with much of the interest in them drained by the glut of RTR models (that probably sounds familiar too!)

 

Regards,

 

Craig Warton 

[DougN]

Have to agree with Craig above. I thought that these DJH kits which I think were sold under the label of LLoyds models from Latham, Belconnen, Canberra. I remember about 30 years ago walking from my uncles to Lloyds house and buying a few small things. 

[vitalspark]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Dave,

 

You can borrow 60528 again if you wish!

 

 

 

My loco enjoying the privilege of running on one of the finest model railways ever made.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

My goodness Tony what a compliment I just hope we can live up to it at the SEC in February!

 

This will likely be the final outing for Alloa in Scotland so its receiving a bit of a spruce up for its last home show.

 

Thank you again for your kind words.

 

Dave.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

I was born a bit later, 1952 so my main interest is in mid to late 60's era - there's a whole thread devoted to it here on rmweb - it's called "Why is this rarely modelled"  You have to read it to understand it - 24 pages and rising with many superb photos of this era.

 

 

End of steam - a sad era for many, yet what replaced steam back then is mostly history right now. I'm not knocking Tony's era - far from it - but I was a small lad back then and have virtually no memories of it. It really was "Death Steam" for me !!

 

The railway, like our hobby, never stops evolving - though some of us (self included) tend to get stuck in a time warp !!

 

Brit15

Sorry I missed speaking to you at Wigan over the weekend.

 

This happens so many times, and I hope I don't appear rude. I'll be in conversation, then someone else asks a question, then another pops up, and, on many occasions, not only do I never speak to someone watching, but I never say cheerio to someone I've been chatting to either. 

 

Anyway, the era of 'Death Steam'. I'm astonished it's not more popular. In my own case, perhaps I should model it because I actually took some (good) pictures at the time between 1965 and 1968 (one or two of which have just been published in BRILL). When steam vanished from BR in 1968, I was almost 22 - so a man, and long gone a trainspotter. I chased the 15 guinea specials across Lancashire and Cumberland, driving my dad's Ford Zodiac! 

 

The point to this is that I saw the period through a man's eyes, not from the perspective of a 'skoolboy', a decade before, which is the period I model. Far more sentient eyes, and with the grasp of a high-quality camera. To travel from Retford to York in the autumn of 1965, and photograph a Deltic racing through the former station was fantastic. Behind the Deltic were ex-GNR somersault signals still extant in the yard, and a large selection of four-wheeled wagons and vans - real steam-era stuff. ALYCIDON fairly flew my brother and me to York, where steam was still a-plenty, including an A1 in service. The next year, a trip to the ex-L&SWR main line out of Waterloo saw the magnificent Bulleids still going flat out, with 'Warships' alongside on the Exeter trains - all still controlled by electro-pneumatic lower-quadrant semaphores; I can still hear their distinctive 'hiss'. 

 

In 1967 I was off to teacher training college in Ormskirk. And, guess what, the Liverpool-Glasgow expresses were still steam-hauled (at least between Exchange and Preston). Black Fives, BR Standard Fives and the occasional (though now-nameless) Brit, on a mix of maroon/blue grey stock, all governed by tradition semaphore signalling. In the autumn of '67, from near Warton Crag overlooking Carnforth, the sight of steam-hauled freights passing brand new blue D400s was most-exciting on the WCML. Again, with all those wonderful signals still present. And yes, it was all over 50 years ago now! 

 

What's the point to all of this 'retired old git's ramblings'? Though the period saw the 'death of steam', the railway (in the main) on which the 'shock of the new' traction ran was still steam-age (as it continued to be for decades later in some parts - still is in places). So, why not enjoy the sights of, say, a Deltic or a Western in full-cry, passing its surviving steam progenitors on a 'Victorian' railway system? Surely great modelling potential?

 

It has much to offer! I must do it someday...............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

That said, I've just taken on a commission to build the original 'Hush-Hush'. Obviously, that could never be in BR condition, and I doubt if any RTR manufacturer will look at it

It will be interesting to see how it fares in the upcoming poll.

 

Quite viable for Hornby  , one in the original form , stick a revised A4 body on, and they can milk four more versions for sale, all with the same Tender.

[drmditch]

Re: 'Clone Modelling'.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I am building/re-building my railway to represent the that period which allows me to model the infrastructure and rolling stock that I find most interesting. For me, this is the late years of the LNER in the NEA, without everything being quite as run-down and dirty as it probably was at that time. 

Actually, my working fiction is that it is not 1947 but 1954 , and not only has the LNER not gone bankrupt but nationalisation has not happened (at least in the form that it actually did). It being the centenary of the formation of the NER the LNE has re-painted some selected stock in NER livery.

 

I grew up in GE territory, and I think my aversion to BR green may originate in my being frightened by what was probably a Britannia in Chelmsford station when I was in my pushchair.

 

Since my adult life has been mostly in the North East, my railway scenario lets me research and visit such infrastructure as remains, and attempt to concentrate my library and research interests without taking up an impossible amount of bookshelf space! 

  

Edited October 8, 2019 by drmditch

[BMacdermott]

52 minutes ago, micklner said:

It will be interesting to see how it fares in the upcoming poll.

Quite viable for Hornby  , one in the original form , stick a revised A4 body on, and they can milk four more versions for sale, all with the same Tender.

 

Hello Mick

 

The 'Hush Hush' has been High Polling since 2013 and made it into The Top 50 items in 2018. It was the most-wanted LNER loco. It finished in overall position equal 19.

 

Sister loco No.60700 has been Middle Polling up to 2017. In 2018, it landed in the High Polling segment.

 

The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 goes live on Monday 14 October - details will be found up in the RMweb banner headline later this week.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by BMacdermott
Word added.

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

It will be interesting to see how it fares in the upcoming poll.

 

Quite viable for Hornby  , one in the original form , stick a revised A4 body on, and they can milk four more versions for sale, all with the same Tender.

I think I read that KR models were interested in it,  although they have yet to produce their first model (The GT3) so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[APOLLO]

Nice post above Tony. I'll have a chat with you next year (hopefully).

 

My first introduction to steam was on holidays in the early 60's, GW steam at Fairbourne and Barmouth, 1963 Bulleids at Ilfracombe and Barnstaple. Two trips 1964 / 5 from the Cotswolds (Kemble) to Swindon (D1000 in Desert Sand) then on to Bath, and trips down to Evercreech Jcn (Standards by then). So both diesel and steam got into the blood. At home in Wigan after around 63 the Jubs, Pats, Semi's etc had virtually gone - I never really remember them, this left us with a good but dwindling selection of increasingly tatty old steam (and, of course the Brits !!)

 

Rising up then were the diesels and the new diesel shed at Springs Branch, culminating with the double headed D400'ers (Class 50's) just before electrification in 1973. Diesels were ALWAYS present in my railway memories. Of course nowt beats a Brit in full flight southbound under the Lancashire Union Rly bridge at Springs Branch !!

 

 

One of dad's photos, sometime in 1967.

 

Brit15

[micklner]

32 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

I think I read that KR models were interested in it,  although they have yet to produce their first model (The GT3) so I wouldn't hold my breath.

A lot cheaper for Hornby to make overall , and presumably cheaper for us to buy as well !!!

[Tony Wright]

52 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Mick

 

The 'Hush Hush' has been High Polling since 2013 and made it into The Top 50 items in 2018. It was the most-wanted LNER loco. It finished in overall position equal 19.

 

Sister loco No.60700 has been Middle Polling up to 2017. In 2018, it landed in the High Polling segment.

 

The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 goes live on Monday 14 October - details will be found up in the RMweb banner headline later this week.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

 

Thanks Brian,

 

I was once told by a friend that he'd been asked to source drawings of the original W1 by an RTR manufacturer, but nothing seemed to come of it. This was some time ago. 

 

Of course, an RTR example has been available for some time in O Gauge..................... at a price!

 

 

This is the Korean brass one by Loveless. One would have thought at the price (over £2,500.00, maybe more?) the tender should have the correct-type wheels. They should be disc, not spoked. 

 

It's certainly painted in 'dark, battleship grey'. I don't think the buffer beam should be painted red.

 

 

My friend, Nick Dunhill (one of the best model loco-builders I know), built the original W1 in O Gauge from an ACE kit - well, he used some of the nuts and bolts and the kit's box! 

 

He painted his a much-lighter grey. I wonder which is correct? He's got the right tender wheels, though. 

 

The W1 on The Gresley Beat was built from a SE Finecast kit..............

 

 

 

The colour seems to be somewhere between the two O Gauge ones.

 

 I suppose from 'selfish' motives, I hope the original W1 doesn't ever come out RTR in OO. Why? Because it would be yet another nail in the kit-makers coffin and, if one sees one on a layout, it must have been built, and, thus, has a much more interesting story behind it. 

 

It's no doubt that such an attitude will not appeal to those who feel their 'yuman rights' are being abused if they don't get all the RTR locos demanded in the 'wish lists', but this hobby is about making things, after all. Well, it is to me.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[Clive Mortimore]

41 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

I think I read that KR models were interested in it,  although they have yet to produce their first model (The GT3) so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Hi Dave

 

See another one "No one will ever make a RTR model of". Next time I run it I will leave the bridge up and have the bin ready to catch it.

 

All that money I have wasted on plastic card in building my own locos. I could have saved it and over the years I would be just over half way in having the funds to by a new RTR model toy.

 

 

[chris p bacon]

3 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

All that money I have wasted on plastic card in building my own locos. I could have saved it and over the years I would be just over half way in having the funds to by a new RTR model toy.

 

I know what I'd rather have. 

[BMacdermott]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 I suppose from 'selfish' motives, I hope the original W1 doesn't ever come out RTR in OO. Why? Because it would be yet another nail in the kit-makers coffin and, if one sees one on a layout, it must have been built, and, thus, has a much more interesting story behind it. 

 

It's no doubt that such an attitude will not appeal to those who feel their 'yuman rights' are being abused if they don't get all the RTR locos demanded in the 'wish lists', but this hobby is about making things, after all. Well, it is to me.

 

 

Hello Tony

 

May I offer a a different slant to the word 'demanded' in your post?

 

The obvious parts of The Poll are the voting and results. What is not so obvious is that The Poll Team spends many weeks compiling and refreshing the accompanying Guide so that those who don't have deep knowledge of the prototype might get a feel for how locos and rolling stock - be they 'old' or 'modern' - fit together in chronological context.

 

Additionally, although there may be a few people on various social media platforms who 'scream their demands', our experience is that the greater overall majority of voters are 'decent folk' who are grateful for this annual method of presenting their views in an orderly, professional manner.

 

I have appended below some extracts from the Q&A which should explain matters. Note that the purpose of The Poll is for modellers and collectors. It states that they are models they would realistically wish to buy.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

EXTRACTS FROM THE 00 WISHLIST POLL Q&A (Full details will appear in the RMweb banner headline later this week)

 

What is the purpose of The Poll?  

To provide railway modellers and collectors with an easy and informed way of indicating to manufacturers and commissioners of 00 ready-to-run models which models they would realistically buy if made at some time in the future from all-new tooling (excluding models announced or made since 1 January 2005).

 

The ‘firm cut-off date and all new tooling’ basis gives us an agreed date of items for listing and precludes us making ‘quality judgments’. If voters feel that any pre-2005 model is fine – and many are – there is no need to vote for them.

 

We can’t expect makers to scrap their tooling and make a totally new model that might only be marginally better!

 

Does The Poll Team expect ‘the top items’ to be made?

We would ask voters to appreciate that manufacturers lay plans anything up to three years or more in advance and have to continually balance requests against their current models and proposed portfolios – as well as those of their competitors. To us, it’s a hobby; to them, it’s a commercial decision.

 

 

[D.Platt]

Morning All

on the topic of the death of steam era I find the most noticeable change on most layouts now is the desire to have locos and rolling stock weathered, think back to twenty or thirty years ago you wouldn’t find many on exhibition layouts looking that way, I have a friend in his eighties who hates weathered engines he likes to remember shining locos rolling into Paddington but that’s something that for me was a rare treat to see , an odd engine that was ex works was the best chance for me to see a shining example.

Dennis

[Lecorbusier]

15 minutes ago, D.Platt said:

Morning All

on the topic of the death of steam era I find the most noticeable change on most layouts now is the desire to have locos and rolling stock weathered, think back to twenty or thirty years ago you wouldn’t find many on exhibition layouts looking that way, I have a friend in his eighties who hates weathered engines he likes to remember shining locos rolling into Paddington but that’s something that for me was a rare treat to see , an odd engine that was ex works was the best chance for me to see a shining example.

Dennis

For me it is all about realism. I am modelling the high days of the Edwardian Midland ... so beautifully kept and cherished stock. But if you look at the old photos you find that even then there were varying degrees of muck and grime. The subtlety of a well weathered loco fresh from a polish a clean up has so much more depth than one with no weathering. My take is that you have to first weather the loco to a realistic state before it goes in for its clean, and then clean it back ... mimicking the real process and leaving traces of the dirt in all the nooks and crannies. Of course the under gubbins, roofs etc were always pretty dirty come what may .... I even have some photos of beautifully polished Johnson locos with heat bubbling and paint degradation to the smoke boxes ... which suggests as usual the rose tinted specs can be far from the reality.

[APOLLO]

The thing is (for me) is that most RTR locomotives these days have superb paint jobs factory applied.

 

A few years ago I bought a new green Bachmann Standard class 5 for under £50 , A Hattons bargain. I was going to repaint her a mucky "Patricroft" black, with no front number plate etc, the very essence of "Death steam". She looked so superb out of the box I just had not the heart to desecrate her. I later found out that this particular loco was last shedded at nearby Bolton shed, still in green livery in her last days. So I kept her as purchased.

 

I have weathered a few locos, some heavily  (Bachmann WD's), some lightly, most left as bought. Not ideal in some modellers eyes, I'm not a great fan of factory weathering either, it rarely (if ever) looks right to me, especially on diesels. 

 

At the Wigan exhibition was a stand by "Grimy Times" with lots of very well presented and weathered locos, which I took a good look at. They were nicely done - but no way do I want all (or even most) of my locomotives looking that way, realistic as they are for my era.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Brian,

 

I was once told by a friend that he'd been asked to source drawings of the original W1 by an RTR manufacturer, but nothing seemed to come of it. This was some time ago. 

 

Of course, an RTR example has been available for some time in O Gauge..................... at a price!

 

 

This is the Korean brass one by Loveless. One would have thought at the price (over £2,500.00, maybe more?) the tender should have the correct-type wheels. They should be disc, not spoked. 

 

It's certainly painted in 'dark, battleship grey'. I don't think the buffer beam should be painted red.

 

 

My friend, Nick Dunhill (one of the best model loco-builders I know), built the original W1 in O Gauge from an ACE kit - well, he used some of the nuts and bolts and the kit's box! 

 

He painted his a much-lighter grey. I wonder which is correct? He's got the right tender wheels, though. 

 

The W1 on The Gresley Beat was built from a SE Finecast kit..............

 

 

 

The colour seems to be somewhere between the two O Gauge ones.

 

 I suppose from 'selfish' motives, I hope the original W1 doesn't ever come out RTR in OO. Why? Because it would be yet another nail in the kit-makers coffin and, if one sees one on a layout, it must have been built, and, thus, has a much more interesting story behind it. 

 

It's no doubt that such an attitude will not appeal to those who feel their 'yuman rights' are being abused if they don't get all the RTR locos demanded in the 'wish lists', but this hobby is about making things, after all. Well, it is to me.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Morning Tony,

 

I'm busy cleaning wheels but I must comment, as you have posted the photo of the loveless 'Hush Hush' before and noted the fault with bufferbeam and tender wheels. It's worth pointing out, that the photo of the Loveless 'Hush Hush' is of a pre production model. The ones that went on sale had the bufferbeam painted grey and disc wheels on the tender.

 

With regard to the colour, the colour of the 'Hush Hush' is actually very well documented. Colour chips from the original paint that was used on the locomotive have survived. They confirm the information in the original documentation.

 

The loveless model is correct, the light grey on the other models is not correct. The light grey that became popular for a time has its origins in the apprentice model constructed by Darlington works. This was built alongside the full size locomotive and the model also used the same paint as the real locomotive. However, after a fire ar Darlington works and as part of the insurance claim, the model was repainted in a much lighter grey. A shade that has given rise to many light grey model 'Hush Hush' locomotives over the decades. An example of the problems inherent in clone modeling?

 

 The colour used on the 'Hush Hush' was not Battleship grey, as often quoted, there is no such thing as Battleship grey. The nearest equivalent to what is referred to as Battleship grey by most people, was probably the shade discontinued by the Admiralty during WW1. I believe this was Admiralty Dark grey or Dark sea grey.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Headstock
Add full stop

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Brian,

 

I was once told by a friend that he'd been asked to source drawings of the original W1 by an RTR manufacturer, but nothing seemed to come of it. This was some time ago. 

 

Of course, an RTR example has been available for some time in O Gauge..................... at a price!

 

 

This is the Korean brass one by Loveless. One would have thought at the price (over £2,500.00, maybe more?) the tender should have the correct-type wheels. They should be disc, not spoked. 

 

It's certainly painted in 'dark, battleship grey'. I don't think the buffer beam should be painted red.

 

 

My friend, Nick Dunhill (one of the best model loco-builders I know), built the original W1 in O Gauge from an ACE kit - well, he used some of the nuts and bolts and the kit's box! 

 

He painted his a much-lighter grey. I wonder which is correct? He's got the right tender wheels, though. 

 

The W1 on The Gresley Beat was built from a SE Finecast kit..............

 

 

 

The colour seems to be somewhere between the two O Gauge ones.

 

 I suppose from 'selfish' motives, I hope the original W1 doesn't ever come out RTR in OO. Why? Because it would be yet another nail in the kit-makers coffin and, if one sees one on a layout, it must have been built, and, thus, has a much more interesting story behind it. 

 

It's no doubt that such an attitude will not appeal to those who feel their 'yuman rights' are being abused if they don't get all the RTR locos demanded in the 'wish lists', but this hobby is about making things, after all. Well, it is to me.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Postscript,

 

your photo of the loveless model looks a little darker than the production model is in reality, the slight greenish tinge to the grey is authentic in contrast to the blue tones of the Gresley Beat version..

[t-b-g]

The Loveless W1 seems to have captured the curve of the boiler quite nicely. The SE Finecast kit seems to have almost flat sides and is quite a triangular shape.

 

Malcolm Crawley built the SE Finecast version and spent ages trying to ease the castings into the correct shape but couldn't bend it enough without altering the height and width too much so he was never really happy with it.

[St Enodoc]

18 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-47163833

What an excellent piece of reportage.

[polybear]

21 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The W1 on The Gresley Beat was built from a SE Finecast kit..............

 

 

 

 

A certain Mr. Shackleton wrote a very nice (and extensive) article for MRJ Compendium Number 3, entitled "The Art Deco Legend" (page 67).  A quick look suggests Tim had to mess about a bit in order to produce an accurate Tender, although that may have simply been due to the particular loco number he was modelling. HTH

Brian

Edited October 9, 2019 by polybear

[CF MRC]

Home fleet RN Grey is very similar to the Loveless model, with the lighter tone Gresley Beat Model perhaps more Mediterranean Fleet colour - although that was much much lighter.   W1 would make an interesting 2mm model, with plenty of space for a motor or two.  I recollect that Joe Rowe’s EM Model was quite a dark grey. 

 

Tim

[Chamby]

11 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Home fleet RN Grey is very similar to the Loveless model, with the lighter tone Gresley Beat Model perhaps more Mediterranean Fleet colour - although that was much much lighter.   W1 would make an interesting 2mm model, with plenty of space for a motor or two.  I recollect that Joe Rowe’s EM Model was quite a dark grey. 

 

Tim

 

Now there’s a name from the past!  I had the pleasure of knowing Joe through the Welwyn Garden City MRC and running sessions in his loft were a real treat.  His Hush-hush was something really special, he had cast his own driving wheels from hand made moulds, and the reversing gear worked authentically.  A stunning model, built by a true craftsman.  I have often wondered what became of it, and the rest of his stuff?