Wright writes.....

[vitalspark]

On 16/10/2019 at 13:51, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Andrew,

 

With so many pages now on this thread, I forget what I've already posted, and there are always new viewers, anyway. 

 

It was given to me as a kit by a friend, and the best way to thank him for his generous gesture was to build it. It is, clearly, of its time (the tender leans a bit), and compared with the Bachmann RTR equivalent, it's rather lacking.

 

 

 

A fine model, but a bit 'bland' in this as-supplied condition in my view.

 

 

Mine didn't last very long in the condition it first came out from the box. Renumbered/renamed, a few more details added and weathering, and it's exactly as I remember seeing these veterans.

 

 

On the CLC.

 

 

 

And in the Sheffield/Retford area. 

 

 

The finest 4mm D11 I've seen is the one built by the late Roy Jackson; from a Perseverance kit, I think, with the motor in the tender driving via a shaft through the firebox to the loco frames (2mm FS-like).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Beautiful model indeed.

We can't compete with that but have to make do with a detailed and weathered Bachmann.

My D11/2 earning its keep on Alloa.

 

 

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

You know, one aspect of modeling that is hardly ever modelled is weather. Yes some snow scenes have been done - one North Eastern layout at Wigan show many years ago was superb, a snow scene at dusk with many lights etc. 

 

Would anyone model this  (using dry ice as fog etc) ? Generic stock would be OK here as no one would have the foggiest !!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Atmosphere (in all its forms) is as important as detail - but many otherwise superbly detailed fine layouts lack it.

 

Brit15

 

Magnificent stuff.  I try to suggest weather or season with lighting on my layout; I use Maplin's led anglepoise lamps which have 3 settings for light intensity and cool, warm, or mixed cast.  I am looking for possible replacements in case these give out, as Maplin's are now as the snows of yesteryear, but haven't found any yet.  

[The Johnster]

And of course model railways are not just trains.  I have seen layouts where the scenery and weathering are works of High Art, but the stock is OOB...  Presentation, management of sight lines, and lighting are capable of destroying the illusion of realism conferred on the scene by the best possible stock, if they are not handled well.  As are poor running and unrealistic speed, acceleration, and deceleration, and bad operation in general.  I will walk away in disgust from any exhibition layout where the operator runs the loco around a train, and sets back onto the stock only to push it up the platform without stopping, despite the vacuum brakes being hard on, and then departing for the fiddle yard without taking time for a brake continuity test, and I've seen this done on layouts with serious 'finescale' pretensions!  You can learn more about railways from a Hornby tin plate clockwer train set, if it's operated properly...

[Lecorbusier]

5 hours ago, APOLLO said:

You know, one aspect of modeling that is hardly ever modelled is weather. Yes some snow scenes have been done - one North Eastern layout at Wigan show many years ago was superb, a snow scene at dusk with many lights etc. 

 

Atmosphere (in all its forms) is as important as detail - but many otherwise superbly detailed fine layouts lack it.

 

Brit15

 

One layout I have seen recently which plays interestingly with atmosphere as well as detail is Jim Smith Wright's Brettell Road ... it is modelled on a damp night - though it also looks good in the day.

[Chamby]

9 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Wow, I never knew DCC sound had that feature.  Do the locos tell dirty jokes to each other on shed at night too?

 

You can load any .wav format sound file you like, at least onto the premium manufacturers DCC chips.   I have an oddball J92 that I sometimes run for kids, programmed with a range of unexpected noises, it will laugh like Jabba the Hutt, ‘meep meep’ like Road Runner and even blow you a kiss.  Kids love it, and it demonstrates the versatility of sound chips well.  

 

Another more sensible example, some folks have recorded and uploaded their own station announcements, correct for the location/services they are modelling.  

[thegreenhowards]

9 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Wow, I never knew DCC sound had that feature.  Do the locos tell dirty jokes to each other on shed at night too?

You jest, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Bachby release a Thomas character which talks to the other engines. “You dirty diesel’ etc!

[landscapes]

8 hours ago, APOLLO said:

You know, one aspect of modeling that is hardly ever modelled is weather. Yes some snow scenes have been done - one North Eastern layout at Wigan show many years ago was superb, a snow scene at dusk with many lights etc. 

 

Would anyone model this  (using dry ice as fog etc) ? Generic stock would be OK here as no one would have the foggiest !!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Atmosphere (in all its forms) is as important as detail - but many otherwise superbly detailed fine layouts lack it.

 

Brit15

 

Hi APOLLO

 

I was very interested in reading your comments on weather conditions in railway modelling.

 

Before I started Haymarket 64B I built a photo plank after seeing  an article in BRM by Andy York just to get some experience in railway modelling and to photograph my model locomotives as well.

 

At on point i decided to try to create a snow scene and a couple of photos here show the results.

 

For the purists I apologise for the photoshopped background and smoke, I was just trying to create a winter atmosphere.

 

The photo quality may not be great as they were taken quite a while ago with an IPad.

 

Regards

 

David

[BlackRat]

There's a lot of mythology when it comes to spraying......I've never had an issue spraying during any of the seasons and temperature and humidity have not been an issue, and in Cornwall we can get ( sort of ) extremes of both.

 

I often recourse to the use of a hair dryer ( Ive got my own for modelling) either to 'warm' the item being sprayed but I find it helps to warm the primer rattle can first.

 

Halfords make excellent primers with a fine pigment and I have had NO issues ever using these.

 

I use both single and double action airbrushes, and have a large set up in the garage as well......not much use for modelling but great for bike and car bits etc.

 

Ive had to correct and re spray models for people quite a few times......but have found that the main issues are the fact that models haven't been adequately prepared prior to painting.

 

I can't emphasise how important it is to get surfaces clean......a new ( not old!) toothbrush and something like Cif works wonders on metal and plastics.

 

You wouldn't use an old battered  and frayed one in your mouth so why on models? 

 

Same with a nice nail scrubbing brush.

 

NEVER use washing up liquid as they contain hand softness like lanolin which will leave an oily surface and some contain a 'gleamed' which want to coat your dishes to make them sparkle etc.

 

Nice on your hands and plates......but not on a model to be sprayed.

Edited October 19, 2019 by BlackRat

[grahame]

While pics of real locos are being posted here's a few I took yesterday at the SVR/CAMRA beer festival showing the effect of weather and light changes all in one afternoon:

 

 

 

 

[PMP]

5 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

One layout I have seen recently which plays interestingly with atmosphere as well as detail is Jim Smith Wright's Brettell Road ... it is modelled on a damp night - though it also looks good in the day.

 

That layout doesn’t capture night at all. The foreground lighting is full daylight and the back is in darkness, other layouts previously have captured night time far better. Those pictures don’t represent what you see at a show at all. The 7mm great train robbery layout, and Dave and Shirley Rowe’s Spanish seafront diorama with sunrise and sunset really captured ‘night’ that an exhibition audience could believe in.

[grahame]

9 minutes ago, PMP said:

 Dave and Shirley Rowe’s Spanish seafront diorama with sunrise and sunset really captured ‘night’ that an exhibition audience could believe in.

 

Presumably that's the layouts (or perhaps more a diorama) at Pecorama where the lighting automatically advances through a day and night sequence covering both dawn and dusk.

[Anglian]

11 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Spot on! Those of us who like doing things to our models rather than just running them out of the box can take them as a cheap starting point and carry out some mods.

 

It seems odd me defending such a decision from Hattons but I can see several reasons why they are going down this route. Cost and time making accurate models of a particular type will only add to the price ticket as much more research would be required to get them perfect, which is what proper modellers of whatever company they chose would demand. The price seems very reasonable at the moment. I would rather pay £30 for a generic GCR carriage than £40 for a SECR one in GCR colours. I use very little RTR and the last few times I have exhibited layouts I can honestly say that every single item was either from a kit or scratchbuilt. In earlier days I used RTR wagons, on loan from a friend, until my kit ones were ready. I see these from Hattons in a similar way. Building enough carriages to run a pre-grouping layout takes an awful lot of time. I would rather run some I have built. So the Hattons examples would do as a short term stop gap until I get mine built. Mind you, if I have to wait 2 years I might have built mine anyway but I have had a rake of 6 wheelers part built for several years! I don't want the Hattons ones to be perfect and right for the railway I model. There would be no point in me building mine if they were.

 

A generic carriage in decent liveries is somehow, in my mind, less wrong than an accurate carriage from one company masquerading as a carriage from another. It will be more wrong on some layouts than others. Nobody can honestly say which company has enough support from the pregrouping community (no company has any big level of support) to warrant accurate coaches just for them and for nobody else. A generic one is not pretending to be anything other than generic. It will be equally wrong for everybody!

 

All this is academic as my next layout is in 7mm (with everything kit or scratchbuilt) but there may be another 4mm EM layout after that. I will have to have a joint Midland GCR layout sometime to run all the lovely MR carriages and wagons I have obtained, that were from the late Sid Stubbs and are stunning. 

 

Whilst I agree with most of what you've written Bachmann have already given us what are presumably reasonably accurate coaching stock for the SECR. These models have clearly been successful for Bachmann as they about to release them in another SECR livery. I believe they also offer them in N gauge. I understand that Dapol are working on 7mm LBSC coaches that are expected to be also made available in 4mm, in the future.

My view is that the Hatton's coaches will satisfy one part of the market whilst others will always want to built the most accurate models possible. However, that fact that this pre-group stock is being made at all surely suggests that more will follow. For those of us interested in the pre-group era that has to be an interesting development as it gives us a useful leg-up without having to built everything, as was the case not that many years ago. The Hatton's coaches may therefore serve as 'placeholders' for many. Surely that is the case with many RTR models as standards generally improve and older models are replaced in the RTR makers' ranges and on layouts.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Anglian

[Lecorbusier]

56 minutes ago, PMP said:

That layout doesn’t capture night at all. The foreground lighting is full daylight and the back is in darkness, other layouts previously have captured night time far better. Those pictures don’t represent what you see at a show at all. The 7mm great train robbery layout, and Dave and Shirley Rowe’s Spanish seafront diorama with sunrise and sunset really captured ‘night’ that an exhibition audience could believe in.

You may well be right ... but when I saw it in show conditions it certainly felt that way to me as a viewer. Chairs were placed in front to control the viewing angle and distance, it was enshrouded with black out cloths and the only source of light within the 'stage' area was from the building and street lighting. I was mesmerised and watched for a good 15 mins ... and for me it felt like a dark wet evening.

[Anglian]

1 hour ago, BlackRat said:

There's a lot of mythology when it comes to spraying......I've never had an issue spraying during any of the seasons and temperature and humidity have not been an issue, and in Cornwall we can get ( sort of ) extremes of both.

 

I often recourse to the use of a hair dryer ( Ive got my own for modelling) either to 'warm' the item being sprayed but I find it helps to warm the primer rattle can first.

 

Halfords make excellent primers with a fine pigment and I have had NO issues ever using these.

 

I use both single and double action airbrushes, and have a large set up in the garage as well......not much use for modelling but great for bike and car bits etc.

 

Ive had to correct and re spray models for people quite a few times......but have found that the main issues are the fact that models haven't been adequately prepared prior to painting.

 

I can't emphasise how important it is to get surfaces clean......a new ( not old!) toothbrush and something like Cif works wonders on metal and plastics.

 

You wouldn't use an old battered  and frayed one in your mouth so why on models? 

 

Same with a nice nail scrubbing brush.

 

NEVER use washing up liquid as they contain hand softness like lanolin which will leave an oily surface and some contain a 'gleamed' which want to coat your dishes to make them sparkle etc.

 

Nice on your hands and plates......but not on a model to be sprayed.

Thanks for your advice. I follow a rigorous cleaning and importantly degreasing procedure. The problem I've had spraying in cold weather is not due to the lack of prep work but that the paint doesn't go on fine enough and can pool in recesses. In warm weather it seems to atomise more effectively and thus goes down as a thinner layer. Have I got to warm up the paint and the model?

Edited October 19, 2019 by Anglian

[PMP]

23 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

You may well be right ... but when I saw it in show conditions it certainly felt that way to me as a viewer. 

I too have seen it at shows, at DEMU this year in fact set up as you describe. It certainly didn’t attract many viewers, and there was plenty of hand of god sorting derailments.

[Lecorbusier]

3 hours ago, PMP said:

I too have seen it at shows, at DEMU this year in fact set up as you describe. It certainly didn’t attract many viewers, and there was plenty of hand of god sorting derailments.

Oh well perhaps I saw it on a good day ... we will have to agree to disagree .

 

Still hoping to see Albion yard in the flesh at some point .... loved it on the Right Track video. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Lecorbusier
additional comment

[Jon4470]

4 hours ago, Anglian said:

Thanks for your advice. I follow a rigorous cleaning and importantly degreasing procedure. The problem I've had spraying in cold weather is not due to the lack of prep work but that the paint doesn't go on fine enough and can pool in recesses. In warm weather it seems to atomise more effectively and thus goes down as a thinner layer. Have I got to warm up the paint and the model?

 

The advice, from Ian Rathbone, is that paint and model should be at room temperature for best ( and most reliable) results.

 

I use a spray booth vented through a duct to an open window so that I can spray paint indoors during the colder months......using an off cut of polystyrene to prevent drafts from the open window opening. 

 

 

Jon

[t-b-g]

4 hours ago, Anglian said:

 

Whilst I agree with most of what you've written Bachmann have already given us what are presumably reasonably accurate coaching stock for the SECR. These models have clearly been successful for Bachmann as they about to release them in another SECR livery. I believe they also offer them in N gauge. I understand that Dapol are working on 7mm LBSC coaches that are expected to be also made available in 4mm, in the future.

My view is that the Hatton's coaches will satisfy one part of the market whilst others will always want to built the most accurate models possible. However, that fact that this pre-group stock is being made at all surely suggests that more will follow. For those of us interested in the pre-group era that has to be an interesting development as it gives us a useful leg-up without having to built everything, as was the case not that many years ago. The Hatton's coaches may therefore serve as 'placeholders' for many. Surely that is the case with many RTR models as standards generally improve and older models are replaced in the RTR makers' ranges and on layouts.

 

You could well be right and to me, an influx of accurate RTR models in pre-grouping liveries is not something I would welcome. I changed from modelling BR in the 1950s because so much RTR became available and many layout started looking just like mine and each other. The same with modelling the LNER in the 1930s.

 

I "retreated" to pregrouping days and have built several layouts with no RTR vehicles at all as I just don't like to "follow the herd". I like building things and don't enjoy having to compete with the marvels that are served up now as RTR. If I take a layout to a show I am often the only pre-grouping thing there. That will all change if the RTR folk get stuck in!

 

Where next for me? As I have said, a bit of pre-grouping 7mm followed by an EM layout using standards that have been all but forgotten over the years, the "Manchester EM" ones.

 

Vive la difference as our neighbours across the water say.

[micklner]

4 hours ago, Anglian said:

Thanks for your advice. I follow a rigorous cleaning and importantly degreasing procedure. The problem I've had spraying in cold weather is not due to the lack of prep work but that the paint doesn't go on fine enough and can pool in recesses. In warm weather it seems to atomise more effectively and thus goes down as a thinner layer. Have I got to warm up the paint and the model?

Warm the can, in hot not boiling water for  a few minutes . Warm the model, I use a hairdryer for a short time as well , white metal for longer than brass or resin. Allow to dry in a warm room.

[uax6]

17 minutes ago, micklner said:

Warm the can, in hot not boiling water for  a few minutes . Warm the model, I use a hairdryer for a short time as well , white metal for longer than brass or resin. Allow to dry in a warm room.

 

If you happen to have a rayburn or similar I have resorted to putting the rattle can in the warming oven* for a couple of minutes and putting the model on the top of the hotplate covers for a few minutes more...

 

Andy G

* you know the one, the oven for the new born lamb...

[grahame]

5 hours ago, PMP said:

I too have seen it at shows, at DEMU this year in fact set up as you describe. It certainly didn’t attract many viewers, 

 

That maybe partly because, from the pics posted it appears to be quite steam oriented (although I haven't seen it myself and wasn't at the exhibition), and the DEMU ShowCase event is primarily about diesel and electric modelling.

 

 

[Anglian]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

You could well be right and to me, an influx of accurate RTR models in pre-grouping liveries is not something I would welcome. I changed from modelling BR in the 1950s because so much RTR became available and many layout started looking just like mine and each other. The same with modelling the LNER in the 1930s.

 

I "retreated" to pregrouping days and have built several layouts with no RTR vehicles at all as I just don't like to "follow the herd". I like building things and don't enjoy having to compete with the marvels that are served up now as RTR. If I take a layout to a show I am often the only pre-grouping thing there. That will all change if the RTR folk get stuck in!

 

Where next for me? As I have said, a bit of pre-grouping 7mm followed by an EM layout using standards that have been all but forgotten over the years, the "Manchester EM" ones.

 

Vive la difference as our neighbours across the water say.

Can you tell me a bit more about Manchester EM – it sounds interesting. 

[PMP]

1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

That maybe partly because, from the pics posted it appears to be quite steam oriented (although I haven't seen it myself and wasn't at the exhibition), and the DEMU ShowCase event is primarily about diesel and electric modelling.

 

 

Indeed, and at DEMU the motive power bias on the Saturday at least, was appropriate for the show.

[micklner]

2 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

If you happen to have a rayburn or similar I have resorted to putting the rattle can in the warming oven* for a couple of minutes and putting the model on the top of the hotplate covers for a few minutes more...

 

Andy G

* you know the one, the oven for the new born lamb...

Sound very dangerous to me , gas filled cans should never go in a oven !!! Hence warm water never boiling only I use a Pyrex jug to hold the water

[uax6]

The warming oven on my rayburn gets to about 30* (it provides central heating, which sucks out most of the heat from the warming oven), and I never leave them in for much more than it takes to get the can warm. I'm well aware of the potential for explosions.....

 

Andy G

Edited October 19, 2019 by uax6