Wright writes.....

[DougN]

Your right Tony, sitting down and taking over a model started by some one else can be very enjoyable... also it can be incredibly infuriating all in the same time. I have the J39 from Dave Bradwells kit which was started and mostly assembled by a another modeller I know of. The chassis was all square, the coupling rods matching, though not as free in the knuckle joint as I would have liked. It has mostly gone together very well but there was a bit of "Where's Wally" looking for parts as they had mostly been removed from the fret. The biggest things I have had to do is free up all the bearings. The loco wouldn't have run as the bearings were all too tight and the Axle boxes would have jambed in the  Horn guides.  The tender and loco body were very well detailed versions from a starting point of the Bachmann body from the mid nineties. These only reall need a sand back and paint due to all the brass parts fitted.  Interestingly theres have only been 4 parts missing, the valve glands, a sand box and the steam brake cylinder. The glands were a head scratch until I realised it would be an easy build with tubes of various diameters to produce the stepped nature! The sand box will be a plasticard build and the steam brake I have yet to figure out! 

 

Any how for a months worth of modelling it has been very enjoyable so far overall! 

[Krusty]

Quote

The locomotive will be a Black 16 or Town Hall class. The model will be available in GNER, NER, LBSC, SR ,BR, LMS, CR, LNER, L&Y, GER, and Amtrak  black as well as GWR greenish grey as a first run. Named examples are expected to include Rochdale, Hobbiton and Bristol Town halls and East Crompton technical collage AD 1982. All variants will come with a bag of chips and a squeaky left rear tender wheel.

 

Which run will Scumbag College be in?

[CF MRC]

On 26/10/2019 at 20:41, Tony Wright said:

Ogden Fold is indeed a beautiful layout, John.......................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's even a Robinson 2-8-0 in one of the pictures but, unfortunately, no 0-8-0.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Reminds me a bit of Heckmondwike, but with activity.

 

Tim

[Bucoops]

10 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Tony,

 

Apparently, the recent wishing well poll has revealed that what modellers want most is a generic mix traffic locomotive, suitable for all times and places. The locomotive will be a Black 16 or Town Hall class. The model will be available in GNER, NER, LBSC, SR ,BR, LMS, CR, LNER, L&Y, GER, and Amtrak  black as well as GWR greenish grey as a first run. Named examples are expected to include Rochdale, Hobbiton and Bristol Town halls and East Crompton technical collage AD 1982. All variants will come with a bag of chips and a squeaky left rear tender wheel.

 

Where do I sign up?

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, CF MRC said:

Reminds me a bit of Heckmondwike, but with activity.

 

Tim

Aargh, the bells, the bells...

[Jesse Sim]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Having acquired four part-built/started/kit locos (plus lots of bits and pieces) from Roy Jackson's estate a fortnight ago, having completed/finished/painted, but not yet lined/lettered/numbered the Nu-Cast A5 and ABS L1 (featured recently), I've now turned my attention to a Nu-Cast B16/3 (or 2, I haven't decided yet). 

 

 

This was in a curious condition on purchase. It looks like Roy (or someone else) had dismantled it, and, in doing so, wrecked the boiler. Perhaps someone else had previously made it, but to a standard not good enough. A new boiler was in the box. Roy had cut a set of frames for it, and made-up a further set of frames. The tender was built as far as the condition shown (very well, so I assume by Roy). All I've done is to erect the set of frames (using OO spacers), made it go and re-soldered the bodywork together thus far. A few other bits seem to have suffered in the dismantling, so a bit of judicious scratch-building will probably be required. All good fun! 

 

In fact, this sort of stuff is always good fun. How long this had mouldered in its fading box, I've no idea; though the musty smell of the cardboard suggest some time! Along with the other two (and a virgin kit to build for a J17), I'm now completing models started by others (by one very dear, late friend), and they'll see service on LB. I know I keep on advising folk not to take on modelling jobs begun by others, but this is a case of 'do as I say, not as I do' (the teacher still in me!). 

 

I've already built a Nu-Cast B16/3 (when the kit first appeared, 40 years ago?), scratch-building a brass chassis for it. 

 

 

With its MW005 motor/40:1 Romford gears and Hamblings' wheels, it's very much old school. I keep it more out of sentimentality, since it's all my work. 

 

This latest one should be far superior.....................

 

At least it's a type which has to be built. As yet (despite the bleats of those who want a B16 RTR), it would seem to be on no RTR manufacturers' radar. But for how long? 

 

 

I have a DJH B16 on the workbench awaiting a start, still need to get wheels and a motor for it, think I need to finish the J39 first.....

[Kier Hardy]

On ‎27‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 10:04, Chamby said:

 

What a wonderful model, at first take it looks convincingly real.  You have captured the ambiance and details beautifully.  

 

How long did it take to build, to this level of detail?

Thanks Chamby, it's always nice to get feedback. The 24ft scenic section was started in 2009, so 10 years to construct.

 

Details can be found here

 

and here http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/layout_hornsey.html as well as the link at the bottom of this post.

 

The level of detail is an interesting question - Though my trainset isn't based on a real place, the level of detail comes with experience and imagination, what to fit into a scene, and what not to. There are some fantastic inspirational layouts which have been built by the younger generation, such as the estuary viaduct which appeared recently at Wigan, but these are few and far between.... it seems the most interesting and realistic productions have a team of people, most of whom will be in their senior years with a few layouts under their belt. I apologise if that sounds snobby, but that's one thing this thread and the Write Wrules advocate is realism and prototypical scenarios

 

Of course if you're building a trainset like Tony's, all that information is provided with site visits and photograhs.  Dreaming up a scene like Hornsey Broadway with a realistic history behind the story, and prototypical railway features has been an absolute pleasure to build and run every weekend. Behind the scenes there are a band of likeminded modellers who have helped the layout become what it is, with professional advice on a number of subjects, so as well as wanting to improve on the last big project, it's also a desire to want to get things right write.   

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Aargh, the bells, the bells...

Indeed John,

 

Wasn't Heckmondwike described as the layout where the bells rung, but nothing ran?

 

I only saw it once, and I needed another shave before I saw a train in action!

 

I'm a good friend of Bob Essery, and I admire his approach to 'realism', but an exhibition layout where so few trains run is not good in my view. 

 

How far does one take 'realism', particularly in the operation of a layout? Particularly an exhibition layout? I think most would agree that Little Bytham is on a trunk main line. Using the PTT and WTT from 1958, I've arrived at a reasonable representation of the trains one might have seen in the summer of that year. Yet, there's a period in the mid-afternoon where there was nearly a quarter of an hour between trains - the 'dead hour' as we used to call it at Retford. Operating LB 'prototypically' would thus be a disaster for visitors. Why aren't any trains running?' they would ask. 'Because I'm a zealot and everything on this trainset is prototypical, including the timetable'. No chance! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Tony Wright]

41 minutes ago, Kier Hardy said:

Thanks Chamby, it's always nice to get feedback. The 24ft scenic section was started in 2009, so 10 years to construct.

 

Details can be found here

 

and here http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/layout_hornsey.html as well as the link at the bottom of this post.

 

The level of detail is an interesting question - Though my trainset isn't based on a real place, the level of detail comes with experience and imagination, what to fit into a scene, and what not to. There are some fantastic inspirational layouts which have been built by the younger generation, such as the estuary viaduct which appeared recently at Wigan, but these are few and far between.... it seems the most interesting and realistic productions have a team of people, most of whom will be in their senior years with a few layouts under their belt. I apologise if that sounds snobby, but that's one thing this thread and the Write Wrules advocate is realism and prototypical scenarios

 

Of course if you're building a trainset like Tony's, all that information is provided with site visits and photograhs.  Dreaming up a scene like Hornsey Broadway with a realistic history behind the story, and prototypical railway features has been an absolute pleasure to build and run every weekend. Behind the scenes there are a band of likeminded modellers who have helped the layout become what it is, with professional advice on a number of subjects, so as well as wanting to improve on the last big project, it's also a desire to want to get things right write.   

 

Thanks Kier,

 

I honestly think it's more difficult to do what you do - 'make-up' a location, but base it on prototype practice. So convincingly, that it looks 'real'. 

 

Was there no actual prototype which suited what you wanted? With your collective ability (in fact, outstanding ability!), building an actual location would have been a doddle.

 

You don't sound 'snobby' at all. I think you're right in that the 'best' layouts currently are built by an individual, or like-minded team, of more-than-tender years (much more). Call it experience, I suppose. A lot of experience!

 

You're also right in that there are some good layouts appearing from those who are of tender-years. From my observations, however, I wish they were less RTR-reliant. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[CF MRC]

19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Indeed John,

 

Wasn't Heckmondwike described as the layout where the bells rung, but nothing ran?

 

I only saw it once, and I needed another shave before I saw a train in action!

 

I'm a good friend of Bob Essery, and I admire his approach to 'realism', but an exhibition layout where so few trains run is not good in my view. 

 

How far does one take 'realism', particularly in the operation of a layout? Particularly an exhibition layout? I think most would agree that Little Bytham is on a trunk main line. Using the PTT and WTT from 1958, I've arrived at a reasonable representation of the trains one might have seen in the summer of that year. Yet, there's a period in the mid-afternoon where there was nearly a quarter of an hour between trains - the 'dead hour' as we used to call it at Retford. Operating LB 'prototypically' would thus be a disaster for visitors. Why aren't any trains running?' they would ask. 'Because I'm a zealot and everything on this trainset is prototypical, including the timetable'. No chance! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Dave Rowe did a brilliant spoof at Central Hall of the ‘Monks of Heckmondwike Abbey’.  He later did another spoof of the ‘Chilling Green Monster’. As they say, if you can’t take a joke you shouldn’t have joined. 
Incidentally, I note that the Chilling Green monster is up for sale.  
 

Tim

[KalKat]

.... Chilling Green monster? ....

 

I googled it but no banana, and these monks?

 

 

Emma

 

[CF MRC]

Afraid we are talking of layouts 40 years ago. 
Chilling Green monster = Chiltern Green. 
Heckmondwike was probably the first large S4 layout and took on an almost religious evangelical monastical air, with the protagonists of S4 requiring hair shirts  and being summoned to prayer at the altar of true scale modelling in Heckmondwike Abbey by (block) bells.  (All said tongue firmly in cheek).  The layout also appeared at the time of the great schism between S4 and P4,  and would not have seen the light of day but for the perseverance of Ron Parren, the chairman & exhibition manager at the MRC Central Hall show, demanding that the layout be finished and exhibited.   Ancient history now and probably just as well. 
 

Tim

[KalKat]

Aaaahh....... I see now. I recall the hoo-haa at the time.

 

Emma

[Kier Hardy]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Was there no actual prototype which suited what you wanted?

 

I don't think I could do any real location justice, that or the other way around......  where's the creativity in that?

 

This suits all my requirements!

 

[Hitchin Junction]

I think Heckmondwike was the first large P4 layout. Apparently one of its purposes was to rebut the statements of the then Editor of the Railway Modeller who apparently claimed repeatedly that P4 was unworkable in operating layout form, except for small demonstration set ups. Instead, it ended it's days on display an the York National Railway Museum as a major example of skilled fine scale railway modeling.

 

Tim

 

 

[micknich2003]

After the NRM, what became of Hyckmondwike?

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, Kier Hardy said:

I don't think I could do any real location justice, that or the other way around......  where's the creativity in that?

 

This suits all my requirements!

 

Beautiful work, Kier.

 

However, one needs to be just as 'creative' when modelling an actual prototype. Anyway, I honestly think it's easier.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[The Johnster]

Having been involved in modelling a prototype, specifically Clarence Road, a Cardiff Docklands BLT, there are matters already sorted out for you.  You don't have to worry about what goes where, that goes there and nowhere else because that's where it was in real life.  But you do have to worry about getting everything as right as you possibly can, and the work you would have put in to deciding where things go is transferred to research. 

 

This means that somebody is going to turn up at a show and claim that they were born in that house and we never had those curtains (this actually happened with Clarence Road).  But we had another character who claimed he had commuted for most of his working life and that there were never steam trains at Clarence Road, only diesels.  'When did you start commuting', we asked, 'and where from'.  '1946, from Penarth', he said.  So, until the advent of dmus on the branch in 1961, he'd been travelling on a steam auto train.  'No, that's wrong', despite being shown the photos, 'those must have been from before my time'.  Eventually the light came on and I asked him if the diesel trains were always the ones with 3 windows at the front. 'Oh, yes, but they changed colour.  First they were brown and cream, then they were red and cream, then they were red, then they were green with yellow stripes'.  So, prior to the introduction of dmus, he's seen the 3 windows of an auto trailer, never noticing the 64xx on the other end, and not noticed any difference when the diesels appeared on the scene, except that they were green.

 

If you are modelling an actual location, this story tells you all you need to know about people who remember everything about it in the old days...

[chrisf]

Johnster, you are going to hate me.  DMUs started running to Clarence Road in 1958.  Honest.

 

Chris

[Jol Wilkinson]

14 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

After the NRM, what became of Hyckmondwike?

It was returned to the original builder, the North London Group of the S4 Society. They didn't have suffiecient space to store it along with their other, later, layouts, so it was broken up. Photos of Heckmondwike can be found on their website;

 

thenlg.org.uk

 

 

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Having been involved in modelling a prototype, specifically Clarence Road, a Cardiff Docklands BLT, there are matters already sorted out for you.  You don't have to worry about what goes where, that goes there and nowhere else because that's where it was in real life.  But you do have to worry about getting everything as right as you possibly can, and the work you would have put in to deciding where things go is transferred to research. 

 

This means that somebody is going to turn up at a show and claim that they were born in that house and we never had those curtains (this actually happened with Clarence Road).  But we had another character who claimed he had commuted for most of his working life and that there were never steam trains at Clarence Road, only diesels.  'When did you start commuting', we asked, 'and where from'.  '1946, from Penarth', he said.  So, until the advent of dmus on the branch in 1961, he'd been travelling on a steam auto train.  'No, that's wrong', despite being shown the photos, 'those must have been from before my time'.  Eventually the light came on and I asked him if the diesel trains were always the ones with 3 windows at the front. 'Oh, yes, but they changed colour.  First they were brown and cream, then they were red and cream, then they were red, then they were green with yellow stripes'.  So, prior to the introduction of dmus, he's seen the 3 windows of an auto trailer, never noticing the 64xx on the other end, and not noticed any difference when the diesels appeared on the scene, except that they were green.

 

If you are modelling an actual location, this story tells you all you need to know about people who remember everything about it in the old days...

Modelling a fictitious but "accurate " location probably takes as much research as an existing site. You have to assess what the real railway builders would have done and while the architecture may not be too difficult, getting the track layout, signalling, etc. isn't always so easy. Membership of a historical line Society can be a great help, but only if they have concentrated on acquiring, maintaining and cataloguing as much information as they could, as the LNWR Society has done.

 

Worse is choosing an actual location which has been "Beeching-ed" but for which too little photographic or other historical information exists, as I am currently finding out with a group project. Whichever route you choose, some expert will undoubtedly appear to point out what you have got "wrong".

[Barry Ten]

There was a chapter on Heckmondwike in the St Michael's Encyclopedia of Model Railways. Well worth a look if you see a copy (they pop up in second hand shops all the time) as it's a cut above the average coffee table book.

[Kier Hardy]

I don't think I should have used the word creativity, as most modellers create something. Even some of the fun crazy ideas which appear on telly are creative.

 

Going back to the question, I've never been able to find a prototype location that fits my criteria, layout after layout, but I do hope what I have cobbled together over the years represents something that could quite have been reality if the course of history took a slightly different direction. That's probably more down to imagination rather than creation.

 

I wouldn't like to comment on what's easier to build, it's just those messages coming from my head are slightly different to yours which has resulted in me making it all up. Most of all, it takes me back to the days I remember and enjoy in my youth, both on the railway and in the surrounding areas. I couldn't fit all those sights and memories into a prototype location unless I had access to an aircraft hanger.

 

My hats off to those of you who do pull it off creating a prototypical scene, it just goes to show not only how different we all are, but space plays a big part in it all too.   

[DougN]

41 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

There was a chapter on Heckmondwike in the St Michael's Encyclopedia of Model Railways. Well worth a look if you see a copy (they pop up in second hand shops all the time) as it's a cut above the average coffee table book.

It's a regular book to turn up here in Australia! I purchased a copy as the first copy I read was owned by my uncle who moved interstate. Now he has moved back to be near by so I have access to a couple of copies. My uncle really liked the look of Heckmondwick and I have discussed it with him and at the time he had not realised it was P4. I have at times dug out the book to re read that section. I have also gone looking for the articles from its construction but I have yet to find them so I could read them. I know that modelling has moved on from that time in leaps and bounds but some times there is little gems that are hidden in those articles! 

[woodenhead]

26 minutes ago, Kier Hardy said:

I don't think I should have used the word creativity, as most modellers create something. Even some of the fun crazy ideas which appear on telly are creative.

 

Going back to the question, I've never been able to find a prototype location that fits my criteria, layout after layout, but I do hope what I have cobbled together over the years represents something that could quite have been reality if the course of history took a slightly different direction. That's probably more down to imagination rather than creation.

 

I wouldn't like to comment on what's easier to build, it's just those messages coming from my head are slightly different to yours which has resulted in me making it all up. Most of all, it takes me back to the days I remember and enjoy in my youth, both on the railway and in the surrounding areas. I couldn't fit all those sights and memories into a prototype location unless I had access to an aircraft hanger.

 

My hats off to those of you who do pull it off creating a prototypical scene, it just goes to show not only how different we all are, but space plays a big part in it all too.   

When you create your worlds though Kier, you get to pick the best bits which then makes for a more interesting model to watch.

 

The reality of a prototype will have some elements missing if you chose to strictly follow the prototype whereas in your imagineered version you get to mix Finsbury Park with some very interesting cross London features which everyone can recognise is London and you can run what you like within an engineered realism.

 

The same applied with Wibdenshaw - it oozed Yorkshire and had bits of trans pennine and ECML services plus the plethora of freight - a Huddersfield, Halifax or Bradford would have had to sacrifice something to be prototypical.

[St Enodoc]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Why aren't any trains running?' they would ask. 'Because I'm a zealot and everything on this trainset is prototypical, including the timetable'.

That's why I prefer a sequence rather than a timetable!