RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 Clem, the window frames and bars on our signal boxes are drawn directly on to clear glazing material with a ruling pen and Humbrol paint. That way they are to scale and not overstated, the secret of good 2mm modelling. Tim 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 9 hours ago, jamie92208 said: On Long Preston trains went either to Hellifield North (Up line) or Settle Junction (Down line) And were offered forward to the next box using a system of push buttons and LED's. This worked well with operators who knew and worked with the system as trains could not be dispatched until the next box had accepted them. Green Ayre uses the same system and again works well. I've even modified the system to cope with the single track branch to Castle. That 'sounds' more like it. The signal box on the layout I'm building has been replaced by a huge 'powerbox' that controls swathes of the lines to the south. Presumably there's no dinging bells in that (maybe ringing 'phones and flashing lights thou). And the signals all seem to be CLS. Here's a couple of pics of my unfinished model: 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Bucoops Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2019 7 hours ago, St Enodoc said: That's what we'll be doing too. The key feature will be an electric lock for each section signal released by the "line clear" from the box in advance. The future single-track branch will run under what I rather grandiosely call "first-come-first-served tokenless block". My tired eyes read that as electric shock for each section - I guess that would be one way of replacing bells but probably wouldn't be silent? 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibateg Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Perhaps the chaps with the bells don't like talking to each other...…. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Grantham and Shap are indeed superb layouts of iconic locations. I was thinking of somewhere "local" (200 yards away) on the West Coast mainline as perhaps a suitable layout location - Rylands Sidings where my dad took many photos (some already posted here) half way up the stiff (1:105) two track climb northbound out of Wigan came to mind. I've just come across this wonderful flikr site of both railway paintings and models. There are some paintings of the Wigan area and Boars Head Bank - Kings Cross and Grantham shed also. Take a look - tons of atmosphere. How to turn images and memories like these paintings into a model ? - Well we all try our best to do so I'm sure. https://www.flickr.com/photos/59619289@N03/page3 Just south of Rylands Sidings the WCML crosses Walkden Ave. Note the bridge abutment was made for 4 tracking (that never happened). I hope the dog doesn't get electrocuted !! And this atmospheric painting Same location 1967 - Dad's photo - Plodding north to Standish jcn and a respite at the 4 track section a couple of miles away. Some heavy diesel freights struggle up here even today but the double headed electric hauled container trains fly up at 70+ and accelerating. Wigan to London for less than a fiver - Bargain !! Does anyone model such posters ? Brit15 Edited November 1, 2019 by APOLLO photo added 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, queensquare said: Thanks Brian, I shall be running a weekday timetable. Much as Id like to, I don't think I will live long enough to build the stock required for a summer saturday! Jerry Hello Jerry I fully concur with you again there. Bath (Green Park) on Summer Saturdays has much to commend it, but the weekday service is every bit as interesting, albeit in a different way. You have fewer express passenger light engine movements between shed and station but that is more than compensated by freight locos to and from the yards. And you still have to change locos on the through trains, even though those locos might be more 'local' in nature as opposed to coming from distant sheds. The Pines still runs and there is no reason why you can't have a pre-Bank Holiday Special or a pigeon train. The Leicester Parcels and 2.40am Down Freight & Mail run and you have the Co-op Sidings trip. Add that to a Midsomer Norton and return coal train, the Binegar local and the 8.25pm Templecombe-Derby Perisher, you have more than a wide variety of stock to match with operational planning and interest. Brian Edited November 1, 2019 by BMacdermott Spelling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 8 hours ago, St Enodoc said: That's what we'll be doing too. The key feature will be an electric lock for each section signal released by the "line clear" from the box in advance. The future single-track branch will run under what I rather grandiosely call "first-come-first-served tokenless block". I did think of doing that on Green Ayre and did make one alteration compared to Long Preston. As the fiddle yard on Green Ayre is now single manned I wired it so that the main li e operator can niw drive trains right into the tard once they have been accepted. There is an overide that allows the fiddle yard operatorto stop trains if necessary. The electrical sections do conform to the signal spacing so it us possible to hold trains at signals and bring others up to the signal behind. This does need operator familiarity and unfortunately we never really had the chance to have good training sessions. Ironically now the layout us up all the time that would be a doddle but the team us in England. Jamie 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, BMacdermott said: Hello Jerry I fully concur with you again there. Bath (Green Park) on Summer Saturdays has much to commend it, but the weekday service is every bit as interesting, albeit in a different way. You have fewer express passenger light engine movements between shed and station but that is more than compensated by freight locos to and from the yards. And you still have to change locos on the through trains, even though those locos might be more 'local' in nature as opposed to coming from distant sheds. The Pines still runs and there is no reason why you can't have a pre-Bank Holiday Special or a pigeon train. The Leicester Parcels and 2.40am Down Freight & Mail run and you have the Co-op Sidings trip. Add that to a Midsomer Norton and return coal train, the Binegar local and the 8.25pm Templecombe-Derby Perisher, you have more than a wide variety of stock to match with operational planning and interest. Brian Thanks again Brian. Just a couple of points; Im modelling the 1920s hence Bath Queensquare, not Green Park and I will be running the Manchester Diner - became the Pines in 1927. That said, the timetable changed little over the years so I will be running all the trains you mention, or their equivalent - eventually! The Diner was made up of Midland or LNW stock on alternate days (dining section always Midland stock) so I will have both rakes and I would like to build another excursion/relief rake as well. MR and LNW coaches with a red or blue engine...... gorgeous. The Norton and return coal will be Foxcote and return. In addition I would like a train of mixed horseboxes for Bath races, a theater special for the Theater Royal, a train representing a farm relocation heading south as well as a cattle special for Blandford or Stur' and something special for Stothert and Pitts. All interesting and attractive trains and all fully justifiable at Bath in my period - though perhaps not all on the same day! That lot should keep me busy for the next year or two! Jerry 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 1, 2019 Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 No bells (nor whistles) involved here..................... Just some more work completed on Roy Jackson's B16/3. At the moment, it has incorrect bogie wheels (only ten-spoke). I've fitted these for testing purposes until the correct 12-spoke style arrives from Markits. As usual, as with any NER outside cylinder locos with bogies, in order to get around curves, I'll have to shave a bit off the insides of the cylinders (not that it has actual cylinders). 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, CF MRC said: Clem, the window frames and bars on our signal boxes are drawn directly on to clear glazing material with a ruling pen and Humbrol paint. That way they are to scale and not overstated, the secret of good 2mm modelling. Tim Hi Tim, Thanks for coming back. Great idea. It makes perfect sense. I've attempted to use plastic strip but they don't make it small enough to make it look correct. So I have resorted to chopping O.5 x 0.25 evergreen lengthwise to try to make it look right, placing on the glazing, carefully checking it's correctly positioned and drifting a very small amount of solvent, trying to avoid fogging the clear plastic. The problem is getting the lengthwise chops consistent but here (below) is progress so far. I've had terrific problems with embossed brick plastic warping when backed with plain styrene sheet and I've had to clamp warped walls etc. flat whilst trying to assemble it. Not sure what I'm doing wrong to get such warping. Anyhow, here (below) is progress so far. It's very rough round the edges but I'm hoping to turn it into a half decent model. If not, I'll simply start again and have another go. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 18 hours ago, queensquare said: Thanks Brian, I shall be running a weekday timetable. Much as Id like to, I don't think I will live long enough to build the stock required for a summer saturday! Jerry When the MCL is complete we will be running a Summer Friday and Summer Saturday sequence from the 1950s. My trains are approximately 60% of the full-size length and the sequence only has about 60% of the total number of full-size trains. It will still give the right impression though (and will still need over 200 coaches and vans...). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 I have seen both Grantham and Shap at shows. Given my previous posts, there are no prizes for guessing which I prefer and watch longer. At one show, Wakefield, the fiddle yard was visible and I spent more time watching the fiddle yard on Grantham than I did some of the layouts! It is nice to see some modelling returning to the thread. I recall Roy getting frustrated with that B16 because he kept finding faults that made him wish he had scratchbuilt it. It is a long time ago and I can't remember where the problems were. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, Clem said: Hi Tim, Thanks for coming back. Great idea. It makes perfect sense. I've attempted to use plastic strip but they don't make it small enough to make it look correct. So I have resorted to chopping O.5 x 0.25 evergreen lengthwise to try to make it look right, placing on the glazing, carefully checking it's correctly positioned and drifting a very small amount of solvent, trying to avoid fogging the clear plastic. The problem is getting the lengthwise chops consistent but here (below) is progress so far. I've had terrific problems with embossed brick plastic warping when backed with plain styrene sheet and I've had to clamp warped walls etc. flat whilst trying to assemble it. Not sure what I'm doing wrong to get such warping. Anyhow, here (below) is progress so far. It's very rough round the edges but I'm hoping to turn it into a half decent model. If not, I'll simply start again and have another go. Gordon Gravett cuts a fret from self-adhesive labels for window frames (rather like Teddy Francis used to do for Plastikard coach panelling). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 35 minutes ago, Clem said: So I have resorted to chopping O.5 x 0.25 evergreen lengthwise Hi Plastruct do 0.25mm x 0.25mm strip reference MS10. https://eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&ctrl=product&task=show&cid=3249&name=plastruct-square-ms10-0-25mm-x-250mm-10-pack-90709&Itemid=189&category_pathway=1262 Other suppliers are available. Cheers Paul 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecorbusier Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: Gordon Gravett cuts a fret from self-adhesive labels for window frames (rather like Teddy Francis used to do for Plastikard coach panelling). I have seen a silhouette cutter used to good effect on this front. There is an excellent thread hereabouts 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 51 minutes ago, Clem said: Hi Tim, Thanks for coming back. Great idea. It makes perfect sense. I've attempted to use plastic strip but they don't make it small enough to make it look correct. So I have resorted to chopping O.5 x 0.25 evergreen lengthwise to try to make it look right, placing on the glazing, carefully checking it's correctly positioned and drifting a very small amount of solvent, trying to avoid fogging the clear plastic. The problem is getting the lengthwise chops consistent but here (below) is progress so far. I've had terrific problems with embossed brick plastic warping when backed with plain styrene sheet and I've had to clamp warped walls etc. flat whilst trying to assemble it. Not sure what I'm doing wrong to get such warping. Anyhow, here (below) is progress so far. It's very rough round the edges but I'm hoping to turn it into a half decent model. If not, I'll simply start again and have another go. Those windows look a lot neater than many a signal box. What solvent are you using? If you try DL Limonine (not sure of the spelling) for the glazing you will find it is slower acting but doesn't fog the glazing. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave Hunt Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Clem said: I've had terrific problems with embossed brick plastic warping when backed with plain styrene sheet and I've had to clamp warped walls etc. flat whilst trying to assemble it. Not sure what I'm doing wrong to get such warping. My good friend David White (who knows a bit about plastikard) told me that you should always use odd numbers of laminations to avoid warping and IIRC David Jenkinson used the same technique. Hope this helps. Dave 4 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said: Plastruct do 0.25mm x 0.25mm strip reference MS10. Thanks Paul, I really didn't think anyone did 0.25 x 0.25. That is really useful information for this model. The other ideas posted all look like good solutions too and deserve a try out on future projects. It's the vertical parts of the window frame that is most difficult to produce by cutting 0.5 x 0.25 lengthwise. This can give me better consistency. (and it's easier). 20 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said: My good friend David White (who knows a bit about plastikard) told me that you should always use odd numbers of laminations to avoid warping and IIRC David Jenkinson used the same technique. Hope this helps. Thanks Dave, that's a really useful tip. . I shall certainly use that method in future. I keep imagining the stresses and strains that now exist in the walls of my model :-). Thanks to all for the advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said: My good friend David White (who knows a bit about plastikard) told me that you should always use odd numbers of laminations to avoid warping and IIRC David Jenkinson used the same technique. Hope this helps. Dave Hi Dave I have made a few things in plastic card including buildings, locos coaches etc. I find it either warps or doesn't no matter if it is laminated or the number of layers in the laminate. These have been in the making since 1985, the sides have behaved themselves the roof over lay on the rear one hasn't. By all accounts these should have gone brittle and fallen apart by now. I read Geoff Kent's scratch building coaches article in MRJ again recently and he states he hasn't had problems with plastic card doing what many say it WILL do. Like Geoff I don't put stresses in the material. A more recent building which is only double layers, embossed over 1mm. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 And also you need to be careful of the trapping of solvent in the layers. I drill a 0.45mm hole every 10mm or so, which allows the solvent to escape. And if you are having warpage issues try a solvent like Lemonene, it solved my warpage problems (along with the holes).. Andy G (who doesn't always use odd numbers of laminations...) 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 41 minutes ago, uax6 said: And also you need to be careful of the trapping of solvent in the layers. I drill a 0.45mm hole every 10mm or so, which allows the solvent to escape. And if you are having warpage issues try a solvent like Lemonene, it solved my warpage problems (along with the holes).. Andy G (who doesn't always use odd numbers of laminations...) I cured the solvent trap problem by using Revell Contacta, squirt it on one half, going around the edges and then a squiggly bit down the middle. put the other one on and slide the two over each other then line them up. The siding action ensures there is an even amount of gunk on both mating surfaces with no air trapped in between. Another important thing to do is make sure there are no burrs as these will prevent a 100% contact between the layers. I never have resorted to drilling holes to allow the fumes out, and I have made quite a few enclosed boxes with no problems. 1 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post grahame Posted November 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said: I have made a few things in plastic card including buildings, locos coaches etc. I find it either warps or doesn't no matter if it is laminated or the number of layers in the laminate. Yep, I have to agree with that. It's difficult to tell if something will warp. Same goes for fogging of clear styrene/acrylic glazing. Many say superglue (cyanoacrylate) will cause it to fog but I use a lot of super glue and it never has. Generally I don't laminate sheet layers unless cladding is necessary such as embossed brick plasticard over plastic pipe for towers or on to card sides - again I use superglue. However I do tend to build a carcass from mount board where plasticard walls are glued on to the mount board edges. Here's a typical building carcass: On to which completed wall panels are stuck. Here are some walls test hung/fitted for size before relief details were added while they are flat on the workbench: And this is the building almost complete (it is purposely built on a slope): Edited November 1, 2019 by grahame 16 1 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, grahame said: Yep, I have to agree with that. It's difficult to tell if something will warp. Same goes for fogging of clear styrene/acrylic glazing. Many say superglue (cyanoacrylate) will cause it to fog but I use a lot of super glue and it never has. Generally I don't laminate sheet layers unless cladding is necessary such as embossed brick plasticard over plastic pipe for towers or on to card sides - again I use superglue. However I do tend to build a carcass from mount board where plasticard walls are glued on to the mount board edges. Here's a typical building carcass: On to which completed wall panels are stuck. Here are some walls test hung/fitted for size before relief details were added while they are flat on the workbench: And this is the building almost complete (it is purposely built on a slope): I remember shopping in Budgens, the food was lovely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post Dave John Posted November 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2019 Time and weight for laminating styrene. I use revell contacta which is not instant then put the laminated parts between 2 flat surfaces , add a lot of weight and leave it for at least a day, preferably two. For very fine glazing bars I just scribe with a silhouette, and use the whole thing as the base layer for a wall. The walls on this box are effectively 5 laminations thick at the brick, embossed, 20 thou and 3 10 thou. Oh and just for a bit of fun my youthful attempt at a co bo hasn't warped either Clive, made in styrene in the 1970s. Looks ok from about 6 foot away.... 12 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, t-b-g said: Those windows look a lot neater than many a signal box. What solvent are you using? If you try DL Limonine (not sure of the spelling) for the glazing you will find it is slower acting but doesn't fog the glazing. Hi Tony, Thanks. I tried Limonine but I actually found it more tricky to use. On this model, I used it on the first window but for the other two, I've used Butatone. I apply it very carefully and sparingly, not touching the 'glass', just letting it creep down the seam from the frame with capillary action. Sometimes the frame part will move during application and I've found that if you're quick you can get away with a slight adjustment with Butatone but I did find Limonene (or at least the stuff I've been using - Mr. Cement Limonene) seemed to be more prone to smearing if I needed to adjust. I know Geoff Kent uses Limonine a lot and gets wonderful results. It might be a brand thing. I have another brand of Limonine somewhere. I'll think I'll give that a try. Some very interesting and informative postings on lamination. I've learnt quite a bit today. The warping I've experienced using lamination has always been when on layer is embossed and the backing layer isn't. Clem 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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