Ray Flintoft Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 The latest pacific to join the stud on Sowerby Road M.P.D . DJH no 60147 North Eastern . Valve gear as per kit , I'm no Roy Jackson . Ray . 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcordingley Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 A question, if I may, to Tony W or any other contributors here about 4mm scale footplate crews. I have dutifully lamped up all of my 50+ steam locos (mostly Lanarkshire Models, with some slightly over-scale Springside), but have thus far not embarked on the exercise of fitting loco crews. I'd appreciate any thoughts on suitable sources; the ModelU figures look good, but the expense of manning my entire fleet looks rather daunting. Any advice warmly welcomed... David C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) I've largely used the ModelU figures (or the almost as good ones by Andy Hardy, but I'd say where cabs are very enclosed you can get away with the cruder plastic or whitemetal ones. If you want them leaning out or the cab is very open (e.g. Hornby J15) then the finesse of the 3D printed figures shows. Where you have a cavernous (e.g.) NER cab and they're only vague forms in the gloom, use the cheaper ones. These are ModelU: The much less distinct figure in the A4 cab (who came with the loco) is, I think, a Hornby figure. The blue could maybe do with toning down, but it's the presence of a figure which is important, the lack of detail is much less apparent (and even less so when the loco is moving). Edited November 8, 2019 by jwealleans 11 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PupCam Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, cctransuk said: By a factor of at least ten, my Brassmasters Black 5 is the undisputed holder of the long-term, part-built loco trophy ! Oh I don't know .... I made the crankaxle for this Anchoridge K3 as a project to test out the new 4 jaw chuck for my little Unimat. I think I bought the chuck in about 1984. Of course, it might also provide supporting evidence that modelling in P4 is just time consuming (where's my tin hat!) although, to be fair, you do actually have to do some modelling in order to make any progress whatsoever which maybe where I've fallen down! Alan Edited November 8, 2019 by PupCam 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, jwealleans said: I've largely used the ModelU figures (or the almost as good ones by Andy Hardy, but I'd say where cabs are very enclosed you can get away with the cruder plastic or whitemetal ones. If you want them leaning out or the cab is very open (e.g. Hornby J15) then the finesse of the 3D printed figures shows. Where you have a cavernous (e.g.) NER cab and they're only vague forms in the gloom, use the cheaper ones. I also use "premium" figures such as ModelU where they're visible, and cruder or older ones where the cab is enclosed. Out of the white metal ones, I personally find the Monty's Models figures to be excellent. Edited November 8, 2019 by Barry Ten 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) Andrew Stadden , some of mine in the next post below, and Mony Models . Modelu are expensive in 4mm. Edited November 8, 2019 by micklner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) Edited November 8, 2019 by micklner 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) I really like the ModelU figures, I now won’t use anything else in open cab loco’s. They have a great variety of poses, and are available in left or right hand printed versions, so are easier to position realistically for left or right hand drive. They also have a variety of body shapes and heights! They work out at about £2 each more than the Bachmann ones, so £4 extra per loco, well worth it If you are pursuing realism. For enclosed cabs, unless I have the driver leaning out of the cab, I use the cheaper Bachman ones, they are readily available from most model railway shops. They tend to be more uniform in size and come in a narrow range of poses, but look fine inside a cab. They come in a very bright blue that benefits from toning down a bit! ModelU in the cab and on the left, Bachmann on the right: zoom in on the shovels to get a feel for the difference... Edited November 8, 2019 by Chamby 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitchin Junction Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 3 hours ago, t-b-g said: We all have things in the hobby that we regard as acceptable and some that we would rather do something about. I agree with you about wheels but unless you go to P4 or Scale7 type standards, you are going to have to live with some element of over thick wheels and deep flanges. They can be disguised with some judicious use of chemical blackening, which certainly helps. It is the shiny tread and flange, kept brightly polished under an otherwise weathered loco, that draws attention to it. I have been told that blackening doesn't cause a problem with electrical pick up but the only time I did the treads on a loco it ran like a pig afterwards so I ended up polishing most of it off. Enough was left to tone down the shiny appearance. Perhaps I did it wrong! Strangely, I don't notice the gauge error of 00. Most of the time I'm only seeing models from the side, so it's not a big deal to me. And 16.5 mm track is plentiful and readily available for quick construction of even complex layouts. Tim 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Smeeton Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2019 I don't know if this will help, for detail Or perhaps it might just inflame the valve gear debate. Tornado, taken at Barrow Hill Roundhouse, 26/10/19 Regards Ian 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post PMP Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2019 Regarding figures my first choice is Modelu 25 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY@34F Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 On 07/11/2019 at 18:46, t-b-g said: Apart from the length of lower part of the expansion link, a couple of other areas that let the Hornby valve gear down are the proportions of the crosshead and slidebar. In real life, the slidebar has a fairly thick top plate and two lower bars, The horizontal slot visible on the outside is a lot narrower than the thickness of the metal. The Hornby has a wide slot and two tiny strips of metal. It is hard to tell from a front 3/4 view but I do recall that some RTR locos had a return crank leaning the wrong way too. Forwards on one side and backwards the other when the crankpin is at the bottom. If you want to do a proper job on the valve gear, with forked joints and correct thickness of parts, it is possible but only a handful of people bother. Just look at any well made Finney kit to see what is possible. I agree with what you are saying Tony . I have fitted a couple of my Hornby A4s with Michael Edge etched radius link and radius rod , set in forward gear and fitted a valve rod to the combination lever through tubing in the cylinder casting and a dummy bit of square material stuck on the front of the rod to represent the two to one linkage moving about a now as it peeps out in front of the valve rod slide block . As with the Finney gear all the parts can be assembled prototypically , and even be reversible . I'm sure you know all this anyway . but the etched parts from both gents look the part to me , as you'd expect . I've tried to attach a photo , but I'm not clever enough to reduce the "size" ! I have done it before , but not now . These computers baffle me sometimes . I'm not alone with that , I know . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY@34F Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Looks like I'm about 12 hours behind on this fast moving thread . Regarding my reply about the A3 and A4 valve gear . Many more imminent modellers have replied with better solutions , including Michael Edge , whom I mentioned . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Chamby said: I really like the ModelU figures, I now won’t use anything else in open cab loco’s. They have a great variety of poses, and are available in left or right hand printed versions, so are easier to position realistically for left or right hand drive. They also have a variety of body shapes and heights! They work out at about £2 each more than the Bachmann ones, so £4 extra per loco, well worth it If you are pursuing realism. For enclosed cabs, unless I have the driver leaning out of the cab, I use the cheaper Bachman ones, they are readily available from most model railway shops. They tend to be more uniform in size and come in a narrow range of poses, but look fine inside a cab. They come in a very bright blue that benefits from toning down a bit! ModelU in the cab and on the left, Bachmann on the right: zoom in on the shovels to get a feel for the difference... Evening Chamby, I quite like the Modelu figures, however they are a bit pricey, especially as I've had to cut them up to get them to fit on occasion, that kind of defeats the point of them in some respects. I'm pondering about using any more, partly because they are becoming a bit common, especially that leaning bloke on every second loco. I am also a bit wary that some of the figures look more like fat long haired pensioners, rather than svelte 1940's firemen. A mixed workforce, as you seem to suggest, is probably a good idea, saving the Modelu figures for special use and avoiding the ones most likely to become cliches. The livery of your O4 is rather interesting. The combination of Gill sans curly six and 12'' lettering (going buy the size of the crew) was very common but almost certainly yellow rather than white/cream. The latter was comparatively rare and found on the few locomotives that were given the BR lined mixed traffic livery prior to the introduction of the first emblem and the straight six. Though there may have been a few plain black locomotives that received the emblem and curly six in cream at the same date. A good rule of thumb is that, with the exception of the MT livery, a curly six usually equals yellow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ArthurK Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2019 Let's not get too upset about the rights and wrongs of any particular model. We all strive to produce the best that we can. With hindsight the front of the radius on my model is too high but let's settle this by showing a close up of the real thing. ArthurK 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 8, 2019 Here's a bit more progress on my Midland clerestories, with the initial assembly of the brake vehicle. The roof is just resting in place at the moment pending the addition of seats and passengers. I think these are Hornby or Bachmann coach wheels. Once painted black, and lost behind the footboards, they'll do fine for me. Al 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 4 hours ago, PupCam said: I made the crankaxle for this Anchoridge K3 as a project to test out the new 4 jaw chuck for my little Unimat. I think I bought the chuck in about 1984. Funnily enough, that may well be of a similar vintage to my Black 5 - when did Brassmasters introduce that kit, I wonder? Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 My layouts are mostly devoid of little humans, somehow I'm not interested in including them - don't really know why. Preiser of Germany have quite a selection in all scales - here's two G scale punk rockers !! Is the guys rocker arm at the correct angle ? And look at the valve gear on his Mrs's !! By the way, they make much ruder little people - better not to post here !! Brit15 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2019 3 hours ago, APOLLO said: My layouts are mostly devoid of little humans, somehow I'm not interested in including them - don't really know why. Preiser of Germany have quite a selection in all scales - here's two G scale punk rockers !! Is the guys rocker arm at the correct angle ? And look at the valve gear on his Mrs's !! By the way, they make much ruder little people - better not to post here !! Brit15 I also don't have many people around on my layout; it sort of ruins the illusion when a train leaves the platform and the same characters that were waiting for it are still there. I model a small South Wales BLT and justify this on the basis that nobody hangs around on the station waiting for trains because they know the timetable off by heart anyway and can hear the train approaching; it's the sort of village where nobody lives more than about 100 yards from the station! I do have a few railwaymen around the place though, in posed group conversation or other situations that avoid 'frozen action'. The real essential on a Valleys branch, though, is sheep, everywhere they shouldn't be, on the platform, in the 6 foot, there's even one coming out of the gents... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 18 hours ago, Woodcock29 said: On the subject of Hornby A1/A3 valve gear I have studied one of mine closely tonight having been aware for a long time of the shortcomings. I have decided to modify one and see how that comes out. I have also compared a Hornby set with a Comet set for an A3. interestingly the expansion link on the Hornby valve gear is only 1.2mm longer than the Comet version, I thought it might have been more. I will shorten mine and also intend to reduce the height of the motion bracket which is also a problem - and this is on one of the earlier Flying Fox models not the later version with the thicker top piece. I have previously modified a Hornby B17 which suffers from similar faults. I hope to report back in a few days. My plan failed! I found that I could not solder the Hornby valve gear parts - most annoying. Particularly as I managed to do this on a B17 a couple of years ago without any issues. So I'm not sure what material the valve gear is made of? On this subject the problem of the angle of the eccentric rod does not occur on the Hornby A4s as the motion bracket is set higher. Andrew 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said: My plan failed! I found that I could not solder the Hornby valve gear parts - most annoying. Particularly as I managed to do this on a B17 a couple of years ago without any issues. So I'm not sure what material the valve gear is made of? On this subject the problem of the angle of the eccentric rod does not occur on the Hornby A4s as the motion bracket is set higher. Andrew Chrome plated Brass , remove the plating and it will solder. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 30 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said: My plan failed! I found that I could not solder the Hornby valve gear parts - most annoying. Particularly as I managed to do this on a B17 a couple of years ago without any issues. So I'm not sure what material the valve gear is made of? On this subject the problem of the angle of the eccentric rod does not occur on the Hornby A4s as the motion bracket is set higher. Andrew Have you tried a lace pin with keeper plate behind from brass? Then it would not matter what the valve gear is made from......as long as it is not plastic. Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Headstock said: ...The livery of your O4 is rather interesting. The combination of Gill sans curly six and 12'' lettering (going buy the size of the crew) was very common but almost certainly yellow rather than white/cream. The latter was comparatively rare and found on the few locomotives that were given the BR lined mixed traffic livery prior to the introduction of the first emblem and the straight six. Though there may have been a few plain black locomotives that received the emblem and curly six in cream at the same date. A good rule of thumb is that, with the exception of the MT livery, a curly six usually equals yellow. Morning, Headstock. I must admit to scratching my head about the colour of lettering on some early BR liveried loco’s. In this instance I was led by the fact that whilst Fox Transfers produce BRITISH RAILWAYS lettering in white, off-white and yellow, the requisite curly six is issued on a separate sheet only in the ‘off white’. I will give the lettering a wash of yellow-tinted varnish, and then when toned down with weathering, it should look more as you describe. There is a lot of ‘toning down’ and weathering still to do on this layout... but scratch building platform structures and a canopy will hopefully be my big priority this winter. With thanks, Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Thanks for your comments gentlemen. I actually cut the expansion link to shorten it as I did with the B17. I then filed it to remove the coating, thinking it should be brass underneath but it still won't solder, even with my normal rugged phosphoric acid flux. I need to solder the end of the expansion link back on, although I could make another end piece from brass or nickel silver fret waste. The motion bracket itself is exceedingly fragile and has broken off so that also needs to be soldered back on. I 'll have another look at it another day, when I might be less frustrated! Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Re: Model footplate crews. Where do they go when the locomotive is 'on-shed'? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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