Wright writes.....

[Lecorbusier]

10 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

model railways on the BBC ....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50403561

Rod Stewart and Jules Holland discuss modelling on Jeremy Vine here....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000b4vn

 

It starts at 35.05 mins in ... one of the more adult discussions of modelling on the media perhaps?

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

We all have our ideas as to what we find dull. The hobby would be very one dimensional if we all liked the same things. Others thought the show was wonderful so it is probably just me being out of step yet again.

I hope I'm as 'out-of-step' as you are in all my modelling, Tony!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I hope I'm as 'out-of-step' as you are in all my modelling, Tony!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I think you and I both rejoice in being slightly out of the mainstream of the hobby, in our different ways.

[Long John Silver]

Where those "out of step" lead, the mainstream often follow. As ever, wise words from both of you.

Jon

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Long John Silver said:

Where those "out of step" lead, the mainstream often follow. As ever, wise words from both of you.

Jon

Hi Jon

 

Back in time when I built the first Pig Lane I was out of step, a diesel depot with scratchbuilt locos. Five in the photo in the post above are products of my ham-fisted attempts. Many diesel depot modellers have said it was an inspiration to them. Sadly at times I wonder if the copies of the copies have gone down the wrong road when it comes to fidelity with the prototype. What I do hope those who have and are building diesel depots are enjoying their hobby, and learning new skills.

[Mike 84C]

Clive has got it right with his comment about flow around depot layouts and many being unworkable in real life. I find, I admire the loco's and pass on to other layouts. The constant moving from siding to siding is not an observed, loco arrives, serviced, parked and departs but a confection to give interest for the paying public.

   As modellers we should remember that real railwaymen do not like shunting, much better to stay in the cabin, keep warm, drink tea, play cards and rank up your locos as needed for departure. How do I know? got the tea shirt donkeys years ago.

  As an aside, I do remember  when I was driving on the  Festiniog, having to do a large carriage shunt  at the end of the day, maybe seven or eight separate moves. When the guard was asked why so many moves? He liked shunting! He was also a railway modeller.

[Tony Wright]

38 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

Clive has got it right with his comment about flow around depot layouts and many being unworkable in real life. I find, I admire the loco's and pass on to other layouts. The constant moving from siding to siding is not an observed, loco arrives, serviced, parked and departs but a confection to give interest for the paying public.

   As modellers we should remember that real railwaymen do not like shunting, much better to stay in the cabin, keep warm, drink tea, play cards and rank up your locos as needed for departure. How do I know? got the tea shirt donkeys years ago.

  As an aside, I do remember  when I was driving on the  Festiniog, having to do a large carriage shunt  at the end of the day, maybe seven or eight separate moves. When the guard was asked why so many moves? He liked shunting! He was also a railway modeller.

Thanks Mike,

 

I have one or two regular (if not frequent) visitors to LB who just enjoy shunting, and cheerfully block all four main running lines as, say, a J6 trundles across with a cut of wagons.

 

Personally, it bores me stiff!

 

As do 'shunting puzzle' layouts. They seemed to be designed to make the job more complex and difficult. Where, in recorded history, have real railway builders/engineers made their track layouts deliberately more difficult to operate? One can cite examples where, because of the topography/geography, some sites must have been notorious to operate with ease - Brunswick's CLC shed for instance, but only because of the proximity of a huge retaining wall and the docks, plus an adjacent tunnel mouth. The track there was arranged to make movements as easy as possible, given the tight site restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Michael Edge]

Brunswick must have been an absolute pig to work and my model is just as difficult, no chance of achieving any sort of flow system here. I have photos of coal and ash wagons stored all over the place, often inside the shed - there were only two short sidings available for these. One photo I have shows an O4 doing the coal stage shunt with a dead loco in between it and the wagons, presumably it was easier to leave it there than park it somewhere. I have been told that it sometimes got even worse, if the electric coal hoist failed the only place to coal locos was over the other side of the running lines in the old Midland depot, normally only used for shunting locos. Brunswick was however unique, I wouldn't have designed a layout as awkward as this if it hadn't really existed. 

[Natalie]

40 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

Clive has got it right with his comment about flow around depot layouts and many being unworkable in real life. I find, I admire the loco's and pass on to other layouts. The constant moving from siding to siding is not an observed, loco arrives, serviced, parked and departs but a confection to give interest for the paying public.

   As modellers we should remember that real railwaymen do not like shunting, much better to stay in the cabin, keep warm, drink tea, play cards and rank up your locos as needed for departure. How do I know? got the tea shirt donkeys years ago.

  As an aside, I do remember  when I was driving on the  Festiniog, having to do a large carriage shunt  at the end of the day, maybe seven or eight separate moves. When the guard was asked why so many moves? He liked shunting! He was also a railway modeller.

Hi

 

Before the NHS finally broke me mentally I volunteered on the GCR as a Signalman where my old Inspector was also Inspector and Signalman there. 

 

Quite a few of the drivers were ex BR or drove on the Mainline and remarked that it was easy to tell that I had worked on BR as when shunting or running round I would send the loco the easiest (avoiding the crossover north of the station that had a very tight clearance in the stretcher bar and would be reluctant to go back in and relock the points- hot weather would require it to be barred into place) and quickest route possible and was back in the chair finishing off my tea.. Old habits are hard to break.

 

I was specifically requested one time when running round to send the loco via the goods loop rather than the platform as some photographers had apparently complained that they couldn't phot the motion. Those on the platform didn't mind however when the driver paused briefly in the platform if possible to allow passengers a close look at the loco. I was always taught to use the easiest route available and avoid fancy moves over connections that were either awkward to use or not used often. 

I'm not saying that how I worked was right and they were wrong- it was how I had been trained in my formative years.

 

I got some minor stick off some movements people at times as I would stick rigidly to the Rule Book and not deviate or cut corners. I was also taught that if you followed the rule book then you would generally  never end up in a Court of Law or an Inquiry. My philosophy has been proved I think following a number of incidents on the GCR where the Rules were not followed or sloppy practice was allowed to continue. I refer to 37198 running away right direction in a T3 and colliding with a TPO vehicle standing outside the home signal- although still within the T3 limits.

 

I suppose this had been  reinforced to me as by the time I was on the GCR I had retrained as a Nurse and had been required to be able to justify anything that I had done or not done and to document it clearly. We had an NMC Code of Conduct and Professional Standards to follow. Keeping to these reduced the chance of being struck off or a complaint being upheld.

 

Some people were of the opinion that I took it all too seriously and that we were 'only' volunteers who were participating in our hobby and anyway our trains couldn't do much damage as they were only going 30mph maximum. Anyone who has ever been involved in railway operation will be aware how wrong that belief and that most accidents occur at slow speed. If we had an accident it wouldn't be a cosy pretend 1950s one or a demonstration scenario- it would be the real thing with real injuries and suffering. Maybe having worked in A&E and dealt with the impact of trauma clouded my opinion.

 

 

[Long John Silver]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jon

 

Back in time when I built the first Pig Lane I was out of step, a diesel depot with scratchbuilt locos. Five in the photo in the post above are products of my ham-fisted attempts. Many diesel depot modellers have said it was an inspiration to them. Sadly at times I wonder if the copies of the copies have gone down the wrong road when it comes to fidelity with the prototype. What I do hope those who have and are building diesel depots are enjoying their hobby, and learning new skills.

Hi Clive,

I guess that in many fields, not just modelling, people will take inspiration from someone or something, and then take the idea in a slightly different direction.  The old adage of not modelling a model is very true, but be inspired by the concept,  and as Tony always says, observe the prototype. The MPD model is certainly a way of getting in to the hobby without too much outlay and who knows where people will go from there. Certainly anyone like you who scratch builds diesels and DMUs is out of step, but in a very good way, it takes real skill to produce a convincing diesel model from scratch, more power to your elbow. Of course it means that for Sheffield Exchange you can produce what might have actually worked there rather than just what the r-t-r trade provides.

ATB 

Jon

[Natalie]

Just as a further piece of info about operating Diesel Depots, Clive (Mortimore) wrote an excellent article about their design trackwise and the operation and reasons why in UPDate the magazine of DEMU (Diesel and Electric Modellers United). This is well worth reading if interested in the subject as Clive explains it all so well and is an excellent writer as well as modeller. With Clive's permission I can supply copies of the article to anybody who is interested in the running and philosophy of a diesel Depot. 

[Clive Mortimore]

21 minutes ago, Long John Silver said:

Hi Clive,

I guess that in many fields, not just modelling, people will take inspiration from someone or something, and then take the idea in a slightly different direction.  The old adage of not modelling a model is very true, but be inspired by the concept,  and as Tony always says, observe the prototype. The MPD model is certainly a way of getting in to the hobby without too much outlay and who knows where people will go from there. Certainly anyone like you who scratch builds diesels and DMUs is out of step, but in a very good way, it takes real skill to produce a convincing diesel model from scratch, more power to your elbow. Of course it means that for Sheffield Exchange you can produce what might have actually worked there rather than just what the r-t-r trade provides.

ATB 

Jon

Hello Jon

 

Last night I had a thought, and yes it did hurt. I have made examples most of the small classes, the one off prototypes, and other oddities, the trouble is so have Heljan in the main but they have been aided by other companies. Every other blighter now has what I made. With this in mind I am now only operating my layout with diesel classes that there were more than 50 of, which means a lot of RTR locos. I will be getting out the early ABC I have copies off and check my steam locos and the same rule will apply if there were more than 50 in service in 1961. This change in direction will mean Sheffield Exchange will look different to all other layouts depicting the early 60s as Falcon and Lion will not be appearing alongside DP2.

 

There is nothing wrong in RTR models if they help depict the period, location etc that the modeller is trying to recreate. I enjoy making my own stuff.

[Clive Mortimore]

16 minutes ago, Natalie said:

Just as a further piece of info about operating Diesel Depots, Clive (Mortimore) wrote an excellent article about their design trackwise and the operation and reasons why in UPDate the magazine of DEMU (Diesel and Electric Modellers United). This is well worth reading if interested in the subject as Clive explains it all so well and is an excellent writer as well as modeller. With Clive's permission I can supply copies of the article to anybody who is interested in the running and philosophy of a diesel Depot. 

Hi Nat

 

I am glad you can supply copies. I lent my copy of UPDate to a friend. His wife had a tidy up and threw all "his" old magazines away. Oh hum.

 

DEMU members can access the article on our Wiki, issue 38. Most copies of UPDate are on the Wiki and are an excellent source of information relating to the last 60 or so years of our railways, GWR and LMS Parcels stock has been discussed and modelled as well as modern DMUs so for £21 per year it is well worth joining. The DEMU forum is also another hive of information, this week there has been a topic about scratchbuilt 30ton Cowan-Sheldon breakdown cranes, a LMS one, a BR steam one from the 1950s and a rebuilt diesel hydraulic one from the 60s as well a topic relating to the London Area Group arranging their Christmas dinner. The social side of DEMU is one of the aspects I really like about the society.

 

That plug should earn me a brownie point or two with the rest of the committee.

[Long John Silver]

14 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Jon

 

Last night I had a thought, and yes it did hurt. I have made examples most of the small classes, the one off prototypes, and other oddities, the trouble is so have Heljan in the main but they have been aided by other companies. Every other blighter now has what I made. With this in mind I am now only operating my layout with diesel classes that there were more than 50 of, which means a lot of RTR locos. I will be getting out the early ABC I have copies off and check my steam locos and the same rule will apply if there were more than 50 in service in 1961. This change in direction will mean Sheffield Exchange will look different to all other layouts depicting the early 60s as Falcon and Lion will not be appearing alongside DP2.

 

There is nothing wrong in RTR models if they help depict the period, location etc that the modeller is trying to recreate. I enjoy making my own stuff.

Hello Clive, As you say there's nothing wrong with r-t-r, I use a lot myself using kits to fill the gaps. I enjoy building my own stuff, but am a demon operator so need more locos than I could ever build.  I've slaved over a kit for months and produced a very mediocre result only to see Hornby or Bachmann produce said model. At least I can maintain and repair mine. 

It does seem strange that thanks to Heljan there are so many DP2s, Lions, Falcons and Kestrels about, enough to stock a nature reserve, but as long as people enjoy them, and the hobby, that's the bottom line.

 

Jon

[Chamby]

29 minutes ago, Long John Silver said:

It does seem strange that thanks to Heljan there are so many DP2s, Lions, Falcons and Kestrels about, enough to stock a nature reserve, but as long as people enjoy them, and the hobby, that's the bottom line.

 

Jon

 

Soon to be joined by GT3 and 18000, according to current advertising.  At least the Fell locomotive looks safe, for now....

 

I don’t take issue with DP2 OR Kestrel OR Falcon OR Lion running on a layout individually, if being run in the right region in the right era.  They did tend to be stand-out locomotives when they showed up.  But having more than one of them in a depot at the same time?  Hens teeth...

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Brunswick must have been an absolute pig to work and my model is just as difficult, no chance of achieving any sort of flow system here. I have photos of coal and ash wagons stored all over the place, often inside the shed - there were only two short sidings available for these. One photo I have shows an O4 doing the coal stage shunt with a dead loco in between it and the wagons, presumably it was easier to leave it there than park it somewhere. I have been told that it sometimes got even worse, if the electric coal hoist failed the only place to coal locos was over the other side of the running lines in the old Midland depot, normally only used for shunting locos. Brunswick was however unique, I wouldn't have designed a layout as awkward as this if it hadn't really existed. 

 

 

A fantastic model of surely one of the most-difficult-to-operate loco depots, Mike.

 

 

 

If ever an advertisement were needed to promote actual prototype modelling, this is it. You couldn't make this up!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

 

[dibateg]

A bit late to the party as always, I made some LNER horseboxes for a client. D&S 7mm kits, painted by Paul Moore. They look very glossy and new!

 

 

 

 

[Tony Teague]

On 05/11/2019 at 17:45, t-b-g said:

 

When I went to work for a Building Society in the late 1970s, ..........There were also long waiting lists for a mortgage and some people had to wait six months or more before they could apply.

 

With apologies for the very late follow up, I too worked in a Building Society way back then and I remember the "joke" at the time -

Building Society Customer: "Where do I stand for a mortgage?"

Manager: "You don't, you kneel!"

A bit too close to the truth!

[t-b-g]

2 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

With apologies for the very late follow up, I too worked in a Building Society way back then and I remember the "joke" at the time -

Building Society Customer: "Where do I stand for a mortgage?"

Manager: "You don't, you kneel!"

A bit too close to the truth!

 

Sounds about right!

 

We had a list of "priorities". I can't remember it all but it was "professionals" having to move for work at the top. Followed by clients of firms like estate agents and solicitors who supported the Society by passing business our way were next. It was "You invest some of your client funds with us and we will give one of your clients a mortgage". Existing customers who had substantial savings were high up too. People who, horror of horrors,  were not already customers and just wanted a bigger house were way down, as were first time buyers.

 

It was often a case of "Invest the deposit with us for 6 months and then talk to us about buying a house". 

 

Fast forward a few years and we were dragging them off the street and begging them to borrow more!

[St Enodoc]

8 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I can't remember it all but it was "professionals" having to move for work at the top.

I must have fallen into that category a few years later. I bought my first home on a 100% mortgage for 2.75 times my salary, having been a regular saver with the building society for over five years.

[4630]

3 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Sounds about right!

 

It was often a case of "Invest the deposit with us for 6 months and then talk to us about buying a house". 

 

Fast forward a few years and we were dragging them off the street and begging them to borrow more!

 

As a former building society employee too in the mid-late 1970s, as I recall we had a ‘lending quota’ each month.  The total amount that the branch was allocated from Head Office to lend each month.  Once the monthly quota was used up that was it, until the beginning of the following month. 

 

All this was before the later introduction of branch lending targets - and closer scrutiny by financial regulators.

 

How times change. 

 

 

[t-b-g]

16 minutes ago, 4630 said:

 

As a former building society employee too in the mid-late 1970s, as I recall we had a ‘lending quota’ each month.  The total amount that the branch was allocated from Head Office to lend each month.  Once the monthly quota was used up that was it, until the beginning of the following month. 

 

All this was before the later introduction of branch lending targets - and closer scrutiny by financial regulators.

 

How times change. 

 

 

 

The old MLA (Maximum Lending Allowance!). One of our managers got sacked because they took in an application on the last day of the month having used the full allowance for that month. They were going to process it the following morning. The Auditors turned up on a random visit the following morning and were waiting on the doorstep, as they did, before anybody else arrived. They spotted the application form (tucked away in the staff rest room) and the manager was dismissed pretty much on the spot.

[4630]

All this at a time when the mortgage rate was set by that cartel called the Building Societies Association. 

 

Yes, the auditors were fun.  So much fun that I subsequently later in my career spent some time working on a bank audit team!  

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Soon to be joined by GT3 and 18000, according to current advertising.  At least the Fell locomotive looks safe, for now....

 

I don’t take issue with DP2 OR Kestrel OR Falcon OR Lion running on a layout individually, if being run in the right region in the right era.  They did tend to be stand-out locomotives when they showed up.  But having more than one of them in a depot at the same time?  Hens teeth...

See the latest BRM for an example of that.  

[Barry Ten]

Dorchester South must have been a troublesome shed to operate - wasn't it the case that one of the  three shed roads was the headshunt for the rest of the MPD and so had to be kept clear at all times?

 

Al