RMweb Premium Barry O Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) Tony the general rule is nothing in (trolleys, packing carts etc) until after the show closes. The lad on the door was instructed by the NEC senior staff at about 5:10 ish that people could come out of the hall with trolleys etc. You must have been in front of the orders "from above"..just. My biggest gripe was with fellow exhibitors. I parked my car to be surrounded by other cars and small vans. The one directly behind me moved over eventually and the crew went off to take the layout down...as it happens they didn't take long to do so but it seems that everyone wants to get out of the hall with top priority and speed. Most of the problems at the NEC are: 1 NEC staff who are acting on "orders" 2 Exhibitors who think they have the right to get in the way of everyone else to suit their needs 3 Visitors who try to buy items from squires at 5:15 ,,the show closed at 5pm..... Baz Edited November 25, 2019 by Barry O 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJT Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 8 hours ago, D-A-T said: Tony The stall selling the loco kits. Can you remember their name? Do they have a website? Much appreciated if you do. David 7 hours ago, jwealleans said: W M Collectables. No idea whether he has a website. 1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said: I think they gave me a card, I’ll have a look for you It was indeed W M Collectables and he (Andrew) has a website: www.wmcollectables.co.uk where you can find his other contact details. However, before you rush there to see what he's got, he's primarily an earlier RTR specialist (Triang TT & OO, Hornby Dublo, Trix, Hornby, Wrenn, etc. and that's what is listed on his website - you won't find a list of the kits he's got; not yet anyway. He takes the kits (they're the collection of one owner, mostly unbuilt but kept scrupulously complete and in brilliant condition - and there's loads and loads of them) to shows, the next ones being Newton Abbot Racecourse next weekend and Peterborough the weekend after. Other shows he's due to attend are on his website. If you're interested and can get to see him at a show, that's probably the best way to start. I last met Andrew the weekend before last at the Sandown Park Toy Fair. I've bought a few bits of RTR from him on previous occasions and was very surprised - delighted - to see his stand bulging with kits this time. He explained about the huge collection he'd bought and I duly bought two unbuilt DJH kits from him (a B16 and a Urie S15) and a 3/4 completed SE Finecast SR Class W. He has a huge number of loco kits from the collection to sort through and sell, many of which are no longer available. He also has, from the same collection, a more limited number (still quite a few though!) of completed kit-built locos, some finished much better than others. Just as excitingly, he has a huge number of unused/unopened rolling stock kits too, again many of which are no longer available from the manufacturer. I'm buying some Ian Kirk carriage kits from him, too. I'd say to be patient with him though. It's a really vast collection of kits he's got to work through, organise and list and he's only part of the way through the job so he doesn't yet know exactly what he has, altogether. From what I saw at Sandown Park, he does have some really lovely kits in genuinely as-new condition - kits that I'm sure most of us thought we'd never see again. Usual disclaimer - I have no connection to Andrew other than being an occasional and very satisfied customer. Pete T. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 I see W M Collectables will be at Peterborough ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I fail to understand why anybody would buy un-built kits in such quantity that they could never hope to build them all, i.e. simply to create a personal "collection". Among all the other variety I counted at least nine un-built B12/3 kits, and that was on Sunday afternoon, when the vultures had already had a day and a half to strip the stall of the goodies. Did the original buyer seriously think he was going to manage to build nine B12/3s from vintage (probably dodgy) whitemetal kits as well as dozens of other types of locos, plus many, many carriages and wagons 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I was lucky at that stall - I picked up a Stephen Poole E4 (the proper one, GER) complete with a NuCast chassis, and a D&S GER Restaurant Car. By my reckoning, that is the last loco on my wishlist so I am very pleased. It is a very long list of East Anglian locos, though one has yet to be delivered from Model Rail (LMS shunter). I'm hoping he has some more coaches left at Peterborough. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PJT Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, gr.king said: Did the original buyer seriously think he was going to manage to build nine B12/3s from vintage (probably dodgy) whitemetal kits as well as dozens of other types of locos, plus many, many carriages and wagons As I understand it, no he didn't. He just enjoyed collecting the kits, which were floor to ceiling in some rooms and the hall around his house. Each to his own, I suppose... but I struggle to see the point as well (however, I am of course very grateful for second chances to buy some of the no-longer-available products!). Andrew of W M Collectables described to me how the collector had been so scrupulous he'd gone through each kit after he'd bought them to check every piece was present and correct - if anything was missing or damaged, he contacted the kit manufacturer and got replacement parts sent to him. In the kits I bought are hand written notes from the collector verifying that the kits were complete or, if he'd had to ask for replacement parts, the full details of what he'd done. Just remembered - on Andrew's stand at Sandown Park, there were a large number of old D & S coach kits from the collection, too... Pete T. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 8 hours ago, queensquare said: I remember that Tony, Kim is not to be messed with, particularly when she has her school mistress hat on - even I do as I'm told! When you say hand trolleys, do you mean the sort of folding sack truck type things. If they are banned that would be a real pain. We tend to load our demo on this with the aid of a couple of bungees and, so long as its not throwing it down with rain, walk it out to the car parks which is a lot easier than queuing to get your car in the car park opposite. Could somebody possibly post a snap of the 'dangerous' type of trolley! We had a fabulous weekend with the family, the highlight of course being Ted's second birthday. That said, I did miss my weekend in the demonstrators enclave. Jerry and Kim Just 'trolleys', Jerry - whatever the description. I think it should have been a case of just using that diminishing item today, 'common sense'. Because we'd packed up a little early (as requested), we were ready to leave just before the public left. Were the trolleys dangerous to the public, I wonder? Certainly, there were no members of the public around the side exit door as we, and several others with trolleys, attempted to 'escape' (including Chris Nevard). Surely, with such dangerous 'weapons' as trolleys around, common sense would dictate that they were out of the hall as quickly as possible. All it did was cause a potential hazard as these 'machines of mass destruction' were crowded around. Regards, Tony. 1 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 7 hours ago, RedgateModels said: If it was the chap by the door nearest to us he did say something about trolleys, when I said I'd been doing this for 6 years he replied it was his first. Hopefully a newbie that needs retraining for next year. I did notice that the "normal" exit the other side of the food court was unmanned but folks were leaving by that route as I passed by outside. Sorry we didn't have chance to catch up and hope you can reconsider for next year, the show would not be the same without you Sorry I wasn't able to chat with you, Ian. It was so busy most of the time, but I should have made a greater effort. No chance of my changing my mind I'm afraid. We do so many exhibitions and, despite the excellence of the Warley Show (for which all the organisers should be congratulated), it's the general hassle which comes with the NEC which is just too much. The Glasgow Show, which is held in the SECC (admittedly a much-smaller site than the NEC) suffers no such problems in my experience. But then, all the stewards (or so it seems to me) are Scottish Association members, and are full of 'common sense'. Regards, Tony. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, gr.king said: I fail to understand why anybody would buy un-built kits in such quantity that they could never hope to build them all, i.e. simply to create a personal "collection". Among all the other variety I counted at least nine un-built B12/3 kits, and that was on Sunday afternoon, when the vultures had already had a day and a half to strip the stall of the goodies. Did the original buyer seriously think he was going to manage to build nine B12/3s from vintage (probably dodgy) whitemetal kits as well as dozens of other types of locos, plus many, many carriages and wagons Excuse me, Tony and I were then vultures 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Good afternoon running Little Bytham, my friends from the North, Dave and Christine, popped over to see me and to see LB, as well as Tony and Mo. It was also good to see Geoff West again, the pair of us sitting on the far side like school children receiving orders from Sir. It was a wonderful day, mates playing trains as Tony put it. It was also wonderful to speak to so many of you at Warley, I can’t wait till next time. 19 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said: Excuse me, Tony and I were then vultures You better include me as well Mike Wiltshire 7 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, gr.king said: I fail to understand why anybody would buy un-built kits in such quantity that they could never hope to build them all, i.e. simply to create a personal "collection". Among all the other variety I counted at least nine un-built B12/3 kits, and that was on Sunday afternoon, when the vultures had already had a day and a half to strip the stall of the goodies. Did the original buyer seriously think he was going to manage to build nine B12/3s from vintage (probably dodgy) whitemetal kits as well as dozens of other types of locos, plus many, many carriages and wagons To try to understand you might have to understand their mental health. I knew of a chap some years ago who was carer for his wife, who had long term health issues. He had filled a room - just like one of those hoarding TV programmes - with model car kits. Eventually friends had to come and help him sort out his house including the kit collection (none of which had been started). His reasoning was that the day his wife was no longer around, he wouldn't know what to do with his time. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 My rule with kits is buy it when you see it. Many kit ranges have come and gone. Some are produced in such small quantities that they are rare from day one of production. A kit that is out of production and no longer required will probably hold its value so can be sold on later. Plus, we modellers have a degree of optimism over what we can achieve and in what timescale. Being in your late 60s and building a couple of kits a year is no barrier to finishing the 50 plus kits you have stored if people I know are anything to go by. One friend, when asked about a completion date for his very ambitious layout says "The rest of this lifetime and most of the next". One day I may start unloading all my unbuilt kits onto the second hand market but until that day, I consider that I just might get around to building them one day! 6 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said: Good afternoon running Little Bytham, my friends from the North, Dave and Christine, popped over to see me and to see LB, as well as Tony and Mo. It was also good to see Geoff West again, the pair of us sitting on the far side like school children receiving orders from Sir. It was a wonderful day, mates playing trains as Tony put it. It was also wonderful to speak to so many of you at Warley, I can’t wait till next time. Somebody needs a shelf or table to avoid dumping boxes, carriages and locos on the scenery! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 hours ago, gr.king said: I fail to understand why anybody would buy un-built kits in such quantity that they could never hope to build them all, i.e. simply to create a personal "collection". There's more than a few of us on Tony's thread that would suffer serious, if not fatal injury should their own personal kit mountains suffer a landslide. I know it would take a team of highly trained sniffer dogs several days to find me..... 3 4 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrg1 Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, polybear said: There's more than a few of us on Tony's thread that would suffer serious, if not fatal injury should their own personal kit mountains suffer a landslide. I know it would take a team of highly trained sniffer dogs several days to find me..... As T-B-G says, buy when available-there are a number of D&S kits that I would like to obtain for my project-I see that someone scored a D&S GER Restaurant Coach that I would dearly like for my Harwich Boat Train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Then there's the leaving! We were in the demonstration area, adjacent to the vast Squire's stand. Entirely reasonably, all the demos were requested to pack up half an hour early to give Squires some space to get all there stuff into a big van to return home. Which meant we were ready to leave just prior to closing. Nobody told us that hand trolleys were not allowed! 'Too dangerous' a jobsworth informed us. He wouldn't let us out. Not just us, but others with trolleys as well (the show had closed by now). This is despite the fact that invalid 'scooters' (is that what they're called?) were present in large numbers throughout the show. Are trolleys more 'dangerous' that those? 'I'd lose my job if I let you out' he bleated. 'But then the "dangerous" trolleys would be gone' said I. No good. It took Ian Rathbone (bless him), as a Warley Club member, to tell us we could leave; he accepting the 'responsibility'. Regards, Tony. Didn't take the stand this year but last year the rules for exit did allow trolleys out to the permitted size & type of vehicles but there was a start time for it being allowed (Can't remember exactly when - 30 mins after closing?) Allowed move 1 - was trolleys to cars/car derived vans on the apron area outside but about 30 mins after the mains doors shut on the public. Allowed move 2 - IIRC correctly about 30mins later again vans and trucks from the long queue down from North Lorry Park could begin to enter the halls. The big problem when the bike show or the food show is also packing up is trying to get a bigger than car derived van through the queue as all theirs are in the same queue. Took an eternity last year so I arrived with our van as about the last one into the halls as I hadn't set off to join the van queue before the show shut. (Didn't need to rush - we stayed over an extra night and left for home on Monday morning) I guess that procedure (or something similar) should be in this year's set-up/breakdown notes too as I think it has been similar for years so if anyone still has their copy to check...... Edited November 25, 2019 by john new Edits for better sense. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Coach bogie said: You better include me as well Mike Wiltshire Something wrong there. Far too organised. Even the labels are at the correct ends. Jason 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, t-b-g said: Somebody needs a shelf or table to avoid dumping boxes, carriages and locos on the scenery! There are shelves and tables, Tony. But they're already full! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hi All Can I ask the collected wisdom of LNER carriage knowledge on here a question? Well in might be a few questions. On Andy's (Thegreenhowards) Gresley Junction layout thread we have been discussing the one of Restaurant Kitchen Buffet that Gilbert says was in the Kings Cross to Cleethropes train. Apparently it the only one of its type on the GNR end of the ECML. Andy has found out some information about it and two other RKB which had been rebuilt form diagram 16 Resturant Kitchen Thirds. Their numbers were E9063E, E9064E and E9065E (Hugh Longworth's tome states that E9095 was not renumbered but ran as M1225E). Does anyone have any information, photos or know of photos of them after being rebuilt, we have between us the diagram 16 before rebuilding. In trying to work out which unique LNER buffet car Gilbert was on about I came across the Eastleigh rebuilds of diagram 11 Restaurant Kitchen First and diagram 95 Sleeper Thirds into Cafeteria Cars. There appears to be two body styles, one with just large windows as in the Harris book and one with small windows between the large windows as per Robert's photo. I have found a photo showing the corridor side of the first style of coach but not one of style in Robert's photo. Can anyone help? There is a very nice photo of the second style of coach on David Ford's black and white photo collection. Next request is about the prototype Cafeteria Cars, E13369E which was rebuilt from an Open Third diagram 186, does anyone have anything on this coach? Oh look what I found while typing this post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Jesse Sim said: Good afternoon running Little Bytham, my friends from the North, Dave and Christine, popped over to see me and to see LB, as well as Tony and Mo. It was also good to see Geoff West again, the pair of us sitting on the far side like school children receiving orders from Sir. It was a wonderful day, mates playing trains as Tony put it. It was also wonderful to speak to so many of you at Warley, I can’t wait till next time. I'm glad my layout's not the only one where the roads always seem to end up hosting various bits of rolling stock... It was very good to meet up with Mo and Tony again at Warley, and to say hello to Jesse. I really enjoyed the show, my first visit in some years. Al 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) May be of interest to the Eastern modellers, I have just noticed a recent addition to the Worsley Works site. Allen is producing etches for the West Riding and Silver Jubilee sets, though I am no sure what scale.(4mm in the web address) http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_LNER.htm Mike Wiltshire Edit It is 4mm scale Edited November 26, 2019 by Coach bogie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) On 21/11/2019 at 19:05, richbrummitt said: I'm several pages behind (still am) and read on to see if anyone else replied but I didn't spot anything, so apologies for any duplication. Something I didn't spot until I designed an etched chassis for some GWR horseboxes is that the vacuum cylinder and lighting reservoir swapped sides from the earlier diagrams with the same wheelbase for the N16 diagram that the Hornby model represents. In the beginning I'd wrongly assumed that the difference was the length over headstocks due to the change from ends with a turn under to straight ends, which could have easily been accounted for by chopping a bit off / different overlays, and I could use most of the same parts for many diagrams but alas I could not. The brake cylinder on the Hornby model in the photo looks to be the correct way around. Good evening richbrummitt, apologies for the late reply, model railways have been at the back of the queue for some time. The brake cylinder on the Hornby model in the photo is the correct way around, not so on the Hornby models that I was asked to repaint. My colleague, who was building the train, had to correct this as well as swapping out the leaf springs for new 3d printed ones of his own making. Edited November 26, 2019 by Headstock Q replaces c Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said: Hi All Can I ask the collected wisdom of LNER carriage knowledge on here a question? Well in might be a few questions. On Andy's (Thegreenhowards) Gresley Junction layout thread we have been discussing the one of Restaurant Kitchen Buffet that Gilbert says was in the Kings Cross to Cleethropes train. Apparently it the only one of its type on the GNR end of the ECML. Andy has found out some information about it and two other RKB which had been rebuilt form diagram 16 Resturant Kitchen Thirds. Their numbers were E9063E, E9064E and E9065E (Hugh Longworth's tome states that E9095 was not renumbered but ran as M1225E). Does anyone have any information, photos or know of photos of them after being rebuilt, we have between us the diagram 16 before rebuilding. In trying to work out which unique LNER buffet car Gilbert was on about I came across the Eastleigh rebuilds of diagram 11 Restaurant Kitchen First and diagram 95 Sleeper Thirds into Cafeteria Cars. There appears to be two body styles, one with just large windows as in the Harris book and one with small windows between the large windows as per Robert's photo. I have found a photo showing the corridor side of the first style of coach but not one of style in Robert's photo. Can anyone help? There is a very nice photo of the second style of coach on David Ford's black and white photo collection. Next request is about the prototype Cafeteria Cars, E13369E which was rebuilt from an Open Third diagram 186, does anyone have anything on this coach? Oh look what I found while typing this post. Evening Clive, E 9065 E was operating in the South Yorkshireman in 1954, it didn't last long and was despatched to the GE section, Cromer trains I think. There are photographs, however, it is so long a go that I looked at them I've completely forgotten were I saw them. From memory, they were very much akin to the Bulleid tavern cars and the 1947 Maunsell RKB conversions, I think, from memory, with a single window, both sides, at the saloon end. Inside, kichen, buffet counter and saloon, mostly perching/ standing. I think it likely that Robert Carol may have a photo reference if all else fails. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 I have the feeling the topics are too close to home. 1 layouts - any flat surfaces will collect rolling stock- I have to clear the layout all off as there is way too much out at the moment. Not helped by the 2 year old nephew saying at the top of his voice I want "lying scotsman".... then onto "oooow you have a spencer, you run them? yes? " so I now have lost the work bench (read 6 inch square space I build kits in!) it is a biggy for me this weekend to put every thing away! 2 the Strategic reserve of Kits. I have managed to now collect even further loco kits (what am I going to do with 3 finney A4's to build? ) let alone the other V2, A3x2 and a A1...... I need to get on and finish a number of the others I have part way through. A V2 has reached the cylinders but the slid bars are in the same alignment for the coupling rods!.... need to figure out the solution to this before going any further... I have said to my other half I do not want to list them as it is too scary! I guess the one thing in my favour is I have at least 40 years ahead of me.... 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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