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1 minute ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

If the modeller is a photographer as well and enjoys both hobbies and can can combine both then a big thumbs up. There is a thread about "How realistic are your models", I view it every now and then, I see some very good model making and some very clever photography, so hats off the the contributors. Sadly they still look like models to me. 

 

You mention how photographs of a layout can be deceiving, as you state Little Bytham can appear different to what people expect to see when they see it for real. A layout that does that to me is Copenhagen Fields, before everyone jumps up and down this is no disrespect to the modelling that Tim and the gang have put into it, it looks wonderful in many photos, and is quite a remarkable model but seeing it the flesh leaves me cold. Thankfully for Tim, those who helped build and operate it there are loads of people who get pleasure form seeing it.

 

Please can we not turn this into a debate as why I find some well made layouts not of my liking. Like many on here I am quite opinionated when it comes to model railways. Please do have a pop at my taste in train sets on my layout thread Sheffield Exchange.

'Please can we not turn this into a debate as why I find some well made layouts not of my liking.'

 

I don't think we are, Clive....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I certainly don't mind at all, and, please do not delete your image.

 

What I would say (and no offence intended) is that in your image, the wheels and motion on the locos have almost disappeared with regard to our ability to really make them out.

 

If you wish, please alter the other images. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Your observation is noted, although it was a very quick edit that I did.

 

Thanks for the offer to alter the other images Tony.   Sadly my day job will get in the way at the moment, but I did have a quick tinker with your B&W image of Copenhagen Fields.

 

1946860857_Originalandcontrastadjusted-RMweb.jpg.cde34d190e3cb4798be2f578b4503625.jpg 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

'Please can we not turn this into a debate as why I find some well made layouts not of my liking.'

 

I don't think we are, Clive....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

Preempting any backlash to my deviation to the opinion of the masses. 

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Interesting use of the Tony picture of our pair of singles storming up Holloway Bank. Unfortunately, just before it was taken, the up goods distant bracket signal succumbed to a final knock (it’s had a chequered life having been rebuilt once already). Going back a few years, Craig Tiley took a similar picture with an intact signal for our RM article. 
11444F45-7CC1-40E9-924E-2DB642C83EF3.jpeg.0de9aa790dcad36fa1f309a05e7c9dde.jpeg

However, modern colour images are clearly incorrect for the era.  So I had a go at it to make it look like a tinted postcard - there were many of the GN.  Not surprisingly, this is my computer desktop image. 
75F32710-6C62-418B-ABAC-00FDA78F50CB.jpeg.bcb12f610094c54f77381357fa562cb0.jpeg

Photos obviously courtesy of Craig & RM. The UG Distant was rebuilt last year.  I now need to get into signal mode for Belle Isle. 
 

Tim

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Models looking like the real thing?  This comes down to the skills of both the modeller and the photographer to trick the viewer's eyes. No matter how hard we try to make our models look realistic when we see them in the flesh they are still models. I for one prefer to see photographs showing the modeller's skill rather than the photographer's ability to deceive my eyesight, but then I am a modeller not a photographer. 

As an occasional (and more casual than Tony) layout photographer, the odd shot that makes viewers uncertain gives me a real buzz.

 

All the more so if the rest looks good enough that they don't even notice the S&W or Kadee couplers!!!!

 

John

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2 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

That is a fantastic picture of Copenhagen Fields Tony .... and for me it is the colour photo all the way. I can't believe you remember your trainspotting days in black and white!

 

I also feel hoisted by my own petard a little ... I have seen Copenhagen fields in the flesh a couple of times now, and your photo certainly adds to my experience of it, which is not to say that I was in anyway disappointed by the layout in the flesh - though to my mind viewing from so far above coupled to the smallness do rob it of something ... it feels a little like viewing from an aeroplane.

 

Tim

Thanks Tim,

 

But, as mentioned, it's only a few who are given the dispensation to place their cameras on such hallowed ground! 

 

Of course I remember my trainspotting days in B&W. I started trainspotting (proper) in 1956, and Trains Illustrated (which was avidly read at the time) was always monochrome. Even when it grew up into Modern Railways (still having steam images on its cover from time to time) it was mainly B&W, as was the contemporary Railway World (which was also read from cover to cover at the time). The main photographic contributors' work of the day was always in B&W - Eric Treacy, Colin Walker, etc.  

 

It was as late as 1964 before I took my first colour images (at aged 18), and a few of my subsequent efforts have now been published. Student poverty, not-so-good cameras (it was at least a decade later before my Nikon F) and ignorance of the process meant many were indifferent. 

 

Perhaps not as indifferent as my very first pictures I took of railways............................

 

These have probably appeared before, but with 1,600 pages now, a long way back. 

 

Patriot.jpg.9a22f75225ad2bdeb8022981014bbf9e.jpg

 

45502 ROYAL NAVAL DIVISION at Chester in 1957. Behind is part of the (long demolished) City Hospital where I was born, 11 years previously. Was it preordained I'd be gripped by railways? 

 

1549721482_A2-2small.jpg.c34348f00a9ca0d9710d8c4a59274048.jpg

 

Also taken in 1957, at Botany Bay, just north of Retford. Class A2/2 WOLF OF BADENOCH heads a Down special. Nobody told me that a Brownie 127's shutter speed would not be adequate to 'freeze' a fast-moving train! 

 

Ah, those B&W days........................... 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 Nobody told me that a Brownie 127's shutter speed would not be adequate to 'freeze' a fast-moving train! 

 

 

 

 

 

Good job they didn't, in my view - that shot, grainy as it is, is far more evocative of the mass and power of a working steam loco than some superbly exposed, pin-sharp photo of the likes we've all seen a million times before.

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6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tim,

 

Of course I remember my trainspotting days in B&W. I started trainspotting (proper) in 1956, and Trains Illustrated (which was avidly read at the time) was always monochrome. Even when it grew up into Modern Railways (still having steam images on its cover from time to time) it was mainly B&W, as was the contemporary Railway World (which was also read from cover to cover at the time). The main photographic contributors' work of the day was always in B&W - Eric Treacy, Colin Walker, etc.

 

Ah, those B&W days........................... 

 

 But of course .... I wasn't talking about the photos taken or those avidly poured over in magazines .... but rather what you observed with intense excitement with the naked eye - and yes ... through the lens of your own Camera ... in magnificent full colour !!! Live steam no less - which sadly for many of us it is only possible to get an inkling of through the prism of black and white, and to some extent the sanitised heritage scene.

 

Mallard in Blue .. the flying scotsman in Green ... not to mention the glorious LMS in Crimson Lake ... 

 

Surely you don't remember those Halcyon days in black and white ? however nostalgic the photos might be.

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I have nothing more to add to the present discussions but I have been looking out for a certain milestone.

 

If my counter is up to date this is post no 40,001.

 

That is worth mentioning in despatches!

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I’ve been plodding on with the Grange chassis ‘as and when’. As mentioned before it‘s the first one I’ve built that has to work. Today was coupling rod day.  I soldered the halves together and with Tony’s advice ringing in my ears, “get in and out quick!” soldered the fixing washers on. It was much easier than I expected and much to my amazement everything revolved first time.  It’s now spent 15 minutes on the rollers in each direction.
 

Obviously the rods need cleaning up and the wheels came from the ‘odds box’ (correct size, wrong number of spokes and with one crankpin held in with super glue only) but now I know everything works I’ll send off for the proper ones. 

 

Much relief and an early Christmas present!

 

11D3AF2F-67C2-4FC8-883B-49FED6BF4B36.jpeg.b346283dd26b0a031154266655cadd91.jpeg

Edited by TrevorP1
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59 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

 But of course .... I wasn't talking about the photos taken or those avidly poured over in magazines .... but rather what you observed with intense excitement with the naked eye - and yes ... through the lens of your own Camera ... in magnificent full colour !!! Live steam no less - which sadly for many of us it is only possible to get an inkling of through the prism of black and white, and to some extent the sanitised heritage scene.

 

Mallard in Blue .. the flying scotsman in Green ... not to mention the glorious LMS in Crimson Lake ... 

 

Surely you don't remember those Halcyon days in black and white ? however nostalgic the photos might be.

'Mallard in Blue .. the flying scotsman in Green ... not to mention the glorious LMS in Crimson Lake ... 

 

Surely you don't remember those Halcyon days in black and white ? however nostalgic the photos might be'.

 

Of course not, Tim,

 

I'n not that old! Though I do have childhood memories of locos in BR blue.

 

And, yes, I saw BR steam in glorious polychrome (one can't be an art teacher if one is colour blind), though BR 'standard grime', which was very common, would hardly exploit the spectrum. 

 

It's just that, as mentioned, in my 'formative' years it was (to quote Irwell) 'You'll remember those black and white days', which I do.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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39 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I have nothing more to add to the present discussions but I have been looking out for a certain milestone.

 

If my counter is up to date this is post no 40,001.

 

That is worth mentioning in despatches!

Thanks Tony,

 

I assume that's a lot?

 

The reason I ask is that some years ago on here there was a 'dispute' (if I recall correctly) between two threads about which layout was the 'most-popular', resulting in the 'loser' taking no further part in posting about what he'd made/was making. I thought it rather petty at the time, and still do. Is it that important? 

 

I think what is important is how this particular thread (which is not 'mine' by the way) is frequented by so many actual modellers. I've learned so much from it, so my thanks to all who've contributed (and contribute still).

 

And, yes, in typical Wright hypocrisy-mode, I did 'celebrate' 1,600 pages!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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46 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

I’ve been plodding on with the Grange chassis ‘as and when’. As mentioned before it‘s the first one I’ve built that has to work. Today was coupling rod day.  I soldered the halves together and with Tony’s advice ringing in my ears, “get in and out quick!” soldered the fixing washers on. It was much easier than I expected and much to my amazement everything revolved first time.  It’s now spent 15 minutes on the rollers in each direction.
 

Obviously the rods need cleaning up and the wheels came from the ‘odds box’ (correct size, wrong number of spokes and with one crankpin held in with super glue only) but now I know everything works I’ll send off for the proper ones. 

 

Much relief and an early Christmas present!

 

11D3AF2F-67C2-4FC8-883B-49FED6BF4B36.jpeg.b346283dd26b0a031154266655cadd91.jpeg

Great stuff!

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Very nice but, in my view, a bigger improvement would come from a liberal application of "ground-level-grot" (ash, puddles etc.) to the layout.

 

John

Hi John 

 

Thank you for your kind comments, but the layout is far from completed.

 

I still have lots of track wiring to do plus adding point motors, this all has to be completed as you know before any scenic works starts.
 

But I do agree fully with your comments that the addition of ashes, cinders etc will certainly improve the photos.

 

At present I am just experimenting with different photographic angles for now.

 

Regards

 

David

 

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Given, then, that the only way that a real-life a photographer could capture such an image would be in B&W, here it is again......................

 

927905812_07CopenhagenFieldsBW.jpg.a97ae300a5ac5f0e38236fdf0bd28be2.jpg

 

Which actually I prefer, given that it's much more redolent of the time. 

 

 

 

Now I understand...I think....

http://calvin-and-hobbes-comic-strips.blogspot.com/2011/11/calvin-asks-dad-about-old-black-and.html

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I assume that's a lot?

 

The reason I ask is that some years ago on here there was a 'dispute' (if I recall correctly) between two threads about which layout was the 'most-popular', resulting in the 'loser' taking no further part in posting about what he'd made/was making. I thought it rather petty at the time, and still do. Is it that important? 

 

I think what is important is how this particular thread (which is not 'mine' by the way) is frequented by so many actual modellers. I've learned so much from it, so my thanks to all who've contributed (and contribute still).

 

And, yes, in typical Wright hypocrisy-mode, I did 'celebrate' 1,600 pages!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I am not sure if it represents popularity of anything but the thread does seem to have taken on a role of being a digital meeting place for a certain sort of people. Huge chunks of the thread have very little to do with Little Bytham directly. The layout forms a sort of core to which we add all sorts of vaguely related content.

 

None of it is important. It is just people nattering about building model railways. life, the universe and everything.

 

In truth I only look at a tiny number of threads on RMWeb now. There is so much on here that to look at it all would leave no time for anything else but to me, 40,000 comments sounds like a lot! This one always gets looked at as it is usually has something worth reading, whether I agree with it or not.

 

Here's to 50,000!

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53 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi John 

 

Thank you for your kind comments, but the layout is far from completed.

 

I still have lots of track wiring to do plus adding point motors, this all has to be completed as you know before any scenic works starts.
 

But I do agree fully with your comments that the addition of ashes, cinders etc will certainly improve the photos.

 

At present I am just experimenting with different photographic angles for now.

 

Regards

 

David

 

Hi David,

 

I should have spotted that it was a work-in-progress. Having had another look, the track looks freshly laid.

 

It's well on the way to being a very nice layout and, having got the engineering side taken care of, dressing it up should provide an enjoyable way to spend some of the long winter evenings.

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

'Mallard in Blue .. the flying scotsman in Green ... not to mention the glorious LMS in Crimson Lake ... 

 

Surely you don't remember those Halcyon days in black and white ? however nostalgic the photos might be'.

 

Of course not, Tim,

 

I'n not that old! Though I do have childhood memories of locos in BR blue.

 

And, yes, I saw BR steam in glorious polychrome (one can't be an art teacher if one is colour blind), though BR 'standard grime', which was very common, would hardly exploit the spectrum. 

 

It's just that, as mentioned, in my 'formative' years it was (to quote Irwell) 'You'll remember those black and white days', which I do.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony

You have also claimed to remember lner green.......just . Possibly a b1 but your knowledge of each engine type was not as sharp then. 

Oh to have seen it.

richard 

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1 hour ago, richard i said:

Tony

You have also claimed to remember lner green.......just . Possibly a b1 but your knowledge of each engine type was not as sharp then. 

Oh to have seen it.

richard 

I do, Richard,

 

It would be at Kiveton Park in about 1950/'51, sitting on the 'box steps while my granddad chatted to his neighbour, the signalman. 

 

It must have been a B1 in apple green or even a B17, but I was only four or five, so I don't know. A first railway memory? It's definitely there. 

 

The family went over Woodhead before my dad got a car and before electrification. The loco hauling us was black, so I assume it was another B1, or even a V2. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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7 hours ago, ArthurK said:

I have not ,as yet, mentioned the hard working goods locos hauling their loads of coal from  mines to docks. Yes they were dirty unless you were lucky to see one ex works. Perhaps it's because of dirt and grime that I remember them.  

 

ArthurK

But even when dirty ... they passed through a landscape (however industrial) of colour.

 

All the photos however are black and white.  So we never get a proper feel for the reality of what it must have been like ..... a bit like we have a complete misconception of gothic cathedrals which back in the day were a riot of painted colour not austere stone.

 

It is for this reason I think that I like photo's of model railways to be colour .... it gives some inkling of what must have been and acts as a counterbalance to the countless books of photos.  Why shoot models in black and white unless you are looking for an 'art' shot? .... when you can go to the photos of the real thing for that.

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11 hours ago, Chamby said:

B1 in Apple Green?   I saw one not so long ago, at Twyford...  not sure about the authenticity of the white discs/high intensity lamp though!

 

Feb_2015_003.jpg.cdf1628c6bbfd76db1c7c02d24bc7f03.jpg

Feb_2015_005.jpg.0116f7f04401d1181f9653275b9be4ef.jpg

Excellent pictures,

 

Thank you.

 

Having been commissioned to write the Books of the B1s (at least two) for Irwell, I've started my research. As usual, the works of the RCTS and Yeadon are being consulted. Unfortunately, neither lists the dates of livery variations for the individual B1s (which would be far more useful to modellers than boiler numbers), but it's clear that many B1s were turned out in apple green, brand new, post-War, including batches built for BR from 1948 onward (the last-mentioned with 'British Railways' on their tenders). Some had just their LNER numbers (1274-1287) some had an 'E' prefix to their LNER number (E1288-E1303) and some had their full BR number (61304-61339, the last built in September 1948). Later ones were turned out in black and the last ones in full BR lined black. How long any B1s remained in apple green post-Nationalisation is something I've got to research. Earlier-built locos also received apple green at their first repaint.

 

What's the painting time regime for a loco. Three years? Four years? More? I'm certain it's the early '50s before the last B1s went into black (hence my childhood memories of seeing them in green), though does anyone know which was the last one?

 

Changing the subject, it's one of my roles these days to write the book reviews for BRM. What's surprising (or is it?) is the number of B&W pictorial volumes which are being produced, mostly showing the BR steam period. A few are in colour (occasionally indifferent) but the vast majority is in monochrome (some also indifferent). What concerns me is the 'accuracy' or otherwise of several of the captions. Dates clearly wrong, locations clearly wrong, locos/stock identifications clearly wrong, directions clearly wrong (for instance, how can the Harwich-Liverpool boat train, heading westwards across the flat crossing at Retford towards Sheffield be going to Hull?) and so on. Have so many mistakes always been there in railway books? Grammatical proof-reading won't correct these sort of things, though SIR RALPH WEDGEWOOD (note the superfluous 'E') should have been intercepted. What's also disappointing, is that in some cases (very few to be fair) publishers, on seeing my 'corrections', either refuse to send new books for review or threaten to pull their advertising. Most, thankfully, are quite pleased with what I write - I try to be positive.

 

I accept that everything I've ever written probably has a blooper or two in it, and are my reviews always accurate? However, with much 'incorrect' material out there (along with much which is excellent, to be fair) what hope is there for future historical 'accuracy' in our modelling?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited by Tony Wright
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