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Wright writes.....


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Talking of railway photography showing the bigger picture, I came across this album on Flickr last night. All in the North West, some superb photos here. DP2 fans will weep, but be enlivened with the new stuff departing "The Vulcan".

 

Only 43 photos in this album - but every one is an absolute cracker. This is the railway as I remember it. The overall atmosphere of these shots, mucky industry & all is what I try to model on my OO loft layout, with to my mind some success (then again only me sees it !!!!!)

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/45021513@N08/albums/72157663795444141

 

What a great photographer Eddie was - R.I.P.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

61311 is heading north and given the angle of the sun, it must be well into the evening as the line runs almost south-north at that point. I suspect it is one of the Swindon-York trains. The photo was dated 18 May 1951 so the daylight hours would have been long.

Larger version - I'm now sceptical abut the date written on the negative sleeve as 18 May 1952 was a Sunday:

49188959157_8f180cd51e_b.jpg61311_Kennington_18-5-52_crop by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Edited by robertcwp
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On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 01:24, Headstock said:

...I don't subscribe to best guest scenario with my modelling, Why should I except it in books? If research is done properly then there should be no need of best guessing. That should be a point of discussion before publication. Personally, I would never use a photo that I didn't understand the meaning of. One of the problems with Railway picture books is that the picture is the tail wagging the dog, it should be the other way about. Were by the picture is used to illustrates the point that is being made in the text. We are so use to dealing with pictures in books with poor guessing game captions, that it never occurs to us that we should be demanding truth and cold hard facts. Even a small move towards greater academic credibility would not go amiss. At the end of the day, such stuff is just poor research.

I had to take several guesses at what words were intended. One of the funniest posts on RMweb this year.

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4 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks Robert,


That's clearer, I can see what's going on. There are some lovelly photigraphs on your thread, for my own interest this one is the best.

Andrew - you replied before my edit to say I was sceptical about the date written on the negative sleeve as 18 May 1952 was a Sunday.

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16 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Andrew - you replied before my edit to say I was sceptical about the date written on the negative sleeve as 18 May 1952 was a Sunday.

 

Evening Robert,


I've been experiencing some problems with the site dropping in and out, it's been a bit troublesome all weekend to be honest. I've only just got it back working again.

 

21 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

No, that's you are (you're) funny too. If you want cold hard facts, the words used need to be the right ones, chum.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

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I had a good & enjoyable visit to the show at Peterborough on Saturday. Whilst there I visited the stall with the collection of old kits, and picked up 4 D&S GER corridor coaches. Now, the question is, what livery should they be in for the 1950s? I assume they would be in plain brown, but what shade is it? 

 

Stewart

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50 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Andrew - you replied before my edit to say I was sceptical about the date written on the negative sleeve as 18 May 1952 was a Sunday.

 

Robert,

 

the internet is a rubish way to have a conversation.

 

The date would indicate the SuO service to Sheffield, a possibility given what look like two GWR strengtheners. That train did like its strengtheners, quite often two LNER carriages attached to the GWR set and vice versa for the LNER set. The bogie vans that top and tail the formation would suggest something else. However, do you know what time the Sunday service came through Kennington? The working was usually in the hands of a Sheffield locomotive out and back. 61311 was a Sheffield locomotive.

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As a break from discussing the accuracy of captions in books here's how the widest end section of the planned layout will roughly look - using buildings I've already made place in their locations although there is still plenty to do as can be seen, such as the half built viaduct (currently just made from rectangles of card resting in place and that ends abruptly in the air):

 

2118118120_View1a.jpg.485767ef4b7b88faa605f9e93915e387.jpg

 

Already a number of these buildings (and others I've made for the rest of the layout) have been demolished and apparently Colechurch House (the brutalist style block centre right) is now also due to be 're-developed' - whatever that means. And there is now a secondary bridge over Boro High Street (left) in front of the plate girder one (not yet properly modelled - it's just a strip of card in the pic above).

 

 

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3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

You honestly believe that the rest of the informaion is mostly irrelevant to the GE section, I'm stunned.

 

Quote

Having recovered. The book will tell you what the LNER's policy was (not much changed under BR for the first decade) on the formatting of passenger trains and the creation of basic sets, something that was applicable to all areas of the LNER. Nothing has come to light to suggest that the GE was any different from the GC section, or the NE or GN sections (I use abbreviated terms for clarity) Armed with that information, you should be able to start trawling through photographs in your area and era of interest and start to identify the patterns that are present.

 

On photographs, I would advise looking beyond books, They tend to have lots of nice images of summer Saturdays workings that don't always give you what you are looking for, that would be the typical and the everyday. Next time that you visit an exhibition, it would be a good idear to spend some time going through the photographs on the photo stand. This is a really good place to start. Have an idear of what you are looking for before you go, that way you can manage your time more effectively. Don't get to hung up on short Gresley carriages, they were a small drop in the ocean even on the GE, and were dispersed somewhat after nationalisation. Don't forget that 60% of the LNER's carriage fleet was of pre grouping design. Without delving into too much detail, lots of GER carriages will always sell a GER layout even if it be set in the LNER or BR period. There are plenty of people who can help you with the identification of trains, Wright writes is not a bad place to start in that respect.

 

I'll attempt to try and explain what I mean - good with words I am not.

 

Yes it gives an insight into various formations - but it is very specific as to individual services (and I don't think sleepers were ever run on the ex-GE?). I'm not expecting a "standard formation" as that wouldn't exist, but I want to know I'm right rather than use what was determined for a different region with different needs, facilities and stock allocations. I'm trying to word carefully as your knowledge is infinitely more than mine of course.

 

Photos of actual trains are of course pure gold - but is that the booked formation or does it have strengtheners? Like you say, summer Saturdays would often bring all sorts out, as presumably would reliefs if they were run (were they run much on the GE?).  I have a few photos but not many. Getting to exhibitions is unfortunately not easy for me.

 

It's interesting that you note that the shorter Gresley coaches were still relatively scarce as quite a few were built specifically for that area - Thirds, Brake Thirds and Composites all numbering over 100 - spread out all over the region of course. I do know that the pre-grouping coaches were still the majority but getting hold of these in OO isn't easy unfortunately - for example I'm not aware of any source for the 54ft Arc roofed stock - some of which were made from two 27ft 6 wheel bodies. 

 

Thank you for the tips - very much appreciated :)

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39 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

I had a good & enjoyable visit to the show at Peterborough on Saturday. Whilst there I visited the stall with the collection of old kits, and picked up 4 D&S GER corridor coaches. Now, the question is, what livery should they be in for the 1950s? I assume they would be in plain brown, but what shade is it? 

 

Stewart

 

Really wish I could get to shows to get this kind of thing!

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41 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

 

I'll attempt to try and explain what I mean - good with words I am not.

 

Yes it gives an insight into various formations - but it is very specific as to individual services (and I don't think sleepers were ever run on the ex-GE?). I'm not expecting a "standard formation" as that wouldn't exist, but I want to know I'm right rather than use what was determined for a different region with different needs, facilities and stock allocations. I'm trying to word carefully as your knowledge is infinitely more than mine of course.

 

Photos of actual trains are of course pure gold - but is that the booked formation or does it have strengtheners? Like you say, summer Saturdays would often bring all sorts out, as presumably would reliefs if they were run (were they run much on the GE?).  I have a few photos but not many. Getting to exhibitions is unfortunately not easy for me.

 

It's interesting that you note that the shorter Gresley coaches were still relatively scarce as quite a few were built specifically for that area - Thirds, Brake Thirds and Composites all numbering over 100 - spread out all over the region of course. I do know that the pre-grouping coaches were still the majority but getting hold of these in OO isn't easy unfortunately - for example I'm not aware of any source for the 54ft Arc roofed stock - some of which were made from two 27ft 6 wheel bodies. 

 

Thank you for the tips - very much appreciated :)

 

Thanks for the reply,


first of all, we are all a little bit in the dark concerning the GE so don't feel as if I am any better than you, I'm not. There are many people who are far more up on that area than myself who could probably help you out. The Great Eastern Society immediately springs to mind. It can be a bit daunting asking for help on a thread like this one, sometimes you have to be pretty thick skinned and except the limitations of the Internet as communication device. What would be helpful is if you have an idea of what time period and what geographical area of the GE you are most interested in. The more that can be pined down, the easier it is to offer suggestions. Its a shame that you are unable to attend exhibitions. Not to worry, I'm sure a solution can be found. I think that photographs are the best way forwards for yourself.  What you perhaps need to do, is to narrow your focus to the parts of the GE that most interest. Then you can acquire a bit more knowledge, that would allow you to asses what your looking for in photographs. All that is achievable with a little bit of help.


I hope that is of help as a start.

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50 minutes ago, grahame said:

As a break from discussing the accuracy of captions in books here's how the widest end section of the planned layout will roughly look - using buildings I've already made place in their locations although there is still plenty to do as can be seen, such as the half built viaduct (currently just made from rectangles of card resting in place and that ends abruptly in the air):

 

2118118120_View1a.jpg.485767ef4b7b88faa605f9e93915e387.jpg

 

Already a number of these buildings (and others I've made for the rest of the layout) have been demolished and apparently Colechurch House (the brutalist style block centre right) is now also due to be 're-developed' - whatever that means. And there is now a secondary bridge over Boro High Street (left) in front of the plate girder one (not yet properly modelled - it's just a strip of card in the pic above).

 

 

The longer you take to model an area, Grahame, the more historic it becomes. Great swathes of our patch on CF have been re-developed, sometimes more than once.  It would be great to show your layout at Guy’s one day. There is an exhibition space. 

 

Tim

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36 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks for the reply,


first of all, we are all a little bit in the dark concerning the GE so don't feel as if I am any better than you, I'm not. There are many people who are far more up on that area than myself who could probably help you out. The Great Eastern Society immediately springs to mind. It can be a bit daunting asking for help on a thread like this one, sometimes you have to be pretty thick skinned and except the limitations of the Internet as communication device. What would be helpful is if you have an idea of what time period and what geographical area of the GE you are most interested in. The more that can be pined down, the easier it is to offer suggestions. Its a shame that you are unable to attend exhibitions. Not to worry, I'm sure a solution can be found. I think that photographs are the best way forwards for yourself.  What you perhaps need to do, is to narrow your focus to the parts of the GE that most interest. Then you can acquire a bit more knowledge, that would allow you to asses what your looking for in photographs. All that is achievable with a little bit of help.


I hope that is of help as a start.

 

Thanks Andrew,

 

My working aim is 1939 at Shenfield - some compression will be needed as the garage isn't big enough for a full length layout. I've picked Shenfield as it was where my Dad grew up, but also it's the end of the Suburban route, but also a through route for longer distance so plenty of interest can be included.

 

I've picked 1939 as I want to include much of what the LNER added to the line, including the rebuilding of the Station in 1934 for 4 lines, but not go into the war years as I would find that a little strange.

 

I am a member of the GERS, they have a great archive and I've bought quite a few of the photos they have.

 

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Having not long returned from a most-enjoyable weekend at the Peterborough Show, may I please thank all those with whom I spoke, and thank those who gave most-generously to CRUK? Mo and I made close to £40.00. Less than half we made at Warley, though still not bad. Some monies, of course, were generous donations, my not fixing anything.

 

I was able to fix most things brought to me (apart from a DCC diesel!). Once again, why do folk who buy into a complex system not learn how to install chips and trouble-shoot for themselves? Hostage and fortune are words which spring to mind.

 

I had a splendid joust with a lovely chap who, when I asked how he was, replied 'I'm good'. 'Don't you mean "well"'? I queried. 'It's the modern way' said he. I said 'I'm glad I'm not modern' because his response, in my view, did not describe his health, rather his altruistic state of mind or proficiency standard. Which is not what I asked about.

 

Which, in a way, relates to some recent posts on here (which I won't go on about too much, honestly). If one expresses quite strong points of view, they are rather 'lessened' in my view if the English in them is wonky; wonky enough to be interpreted in an incorrect way. We've been here before, and I'll say no more, but I have chuckled, so thanks to the parties involved.

 

Speaking of interpretation, how about this..................?

 

1039016521_newBachmannV201.jpg.72ee8640e0eabc57a1a86c8e28af31d1.jpg

 

1197475998_newBachmannV202.jpg.ee2fff59e0e76656e75c03bad071cb5a.jpg

 

Bachmann's new interpretation of a V2. The first 'independent' shots?

 

I have it on loan for a week, to test on LB and to write a report. It's one of the first proving prototypes and, as such, has seen much in the way of handling and passing around. Thus, inevitably, a few bits have been knocked off.

 

The motion is hand-cut from brass. Production models will have fully-fluted motion. 

 

It represents a loco in later BR condition, with the tender rear coal division plate moved further forward and extended upwards. Other options will be available, including locos with larger outside steampipes (those fitted with separate cylinder castings). Examples will also be available 'as-built' by the LNER. 

 

First impressions - not just mine, but those who commented at the show? Superb! Wonderful! Brilliant! It runs superbly, too. 

 

The asymmetric lubricator positions were commented on. This arrangement (which I've never noted before) is certainly present on the preserved GREEN ARROW, but I'm not sure it's on every loco. I'm also not sure about the cab ventilators. As arranged here, they'd be open all the time.

 

I state again, this is a proving model, and I'll be sending my observations to Bachmann. What a privileged position to be in!

 

I'm told the target price will be 'around' £200.00, hopefully less, with the first deliveries by Warley next year.

 

Don't we live in exciting times?  

 

  

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2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Robert,

 

the internet is a rubish way to have a conversation.

 

The date would indicate the SuO service to Sheffield, a possibility given what look like two GWR strengtheners. That train did like its strengtheners, quite often two LNER carriages attached to the GWR set and vice versa for the LNER set. The bogie vans that top and tail the formation would suggest something else. However, do you know what time the Sunday service came through Kennington? The working was usually in the hands of a Sheffield locomotive out and back. 61311 was a Sheffield locomotive.

Unfortunately, I don't have any Winter 1951-2 timetables. I have the WR through coach programme but cannot find a Sunday Swindon-Sheffield working in it.

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On 07/12/2019 at 21:29, grahame said:

 

When I was in Japan (some years back now) I managed a ride on the original series O shinkansen as well as the double decker types:

 

 

Lovely photos, Grahame, of some very impressive machines.

 

This is my only photo of a Shinkansen:

 

japan1.jpg.042d56bc5eb7f90ae98d31383cf091a5.jpg

 

I took it on my one day off on my only visit to Japan, in 2012. With an afternoon and evening to myself I decided to take

a Shinkansen journey for the sake of it. I calculated that I could take a train from Shin-Yokomaha station to Nagoya

and back and have time for a cake and coffee in Nagoya. Using my virtually non-existent Japanese I explained my intended

ticket requirements and was very pleased to be eventually on my way to Nagoya. As we were approaching the destination

I took out my ticket to refresh my memory about the return time and realised that my outbound train was departing

Nagoya about 5 minutes after my arrival! Not only did I have to run like hell, but I also had to leave the concourse and

return through the barriers to validate my ticket. I'd barely caught my breath before I was back in the train and heading

away from Nagoya, none the wiser about the delights Nagoya had to offer. Despite all that was I still enormously 

impressed by the Shinkansen, the punctuality and the on-board service.

 

Al

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Tony, the V2 looks fantastic. Have to say I would like one in the future. There are things on the model which arent included in the Martin Finney kit I am building at the moment! I see the difficulty of the roll to the front of the fire box and the fit to the cab is still there! OK Yes I know this is a test shot. I have had immense problems with the front of the fire box which has resulted in a bit of a frustrated build. 

 

Interesting the angle of the photo doesn't show the "splashers" that are below the foot plate between the wheels but they are there over the wheels. I believe these are at 45 degrees to the vertical. Only once getting into the build of the kit did I even know these existed! I will continue with my build  (and the next V2!) While enjoying the RTR that comes out as well. 

 

So a big gold star for Bachmann on this so far! 

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Having not long returned from a most-enjoyable weekend at the Peterborough Show, may I please thank all those with whom I spoke, and thank those who gave most-generously to CRUK? Mo and I made close to £40.00. Less than half we made at Warley, though still not bad. Some monies, of course, were generous donations, my not fixing anything.

 

I was able to fix most things brought to me (apart from a DCC diesel!). Once again, why do folk who buy into a complex system not learn how to install chips and trouble-shoot for themselves? Hostage and fortune are words which spring to mind.

 

I had a splendid joust with a lovely chap who, when I asked how he was, replied 'I'm good'. 'Don't you mean "well"'? I queried. 'It's the modern way' said he. I said 'I'm glad I'm not modern' because his response, in my view, did not describe his health, rather his altruistic state of mind or proficiency standard. Which is not what I asked about.

 

Which, in a way, relates to some recent posts on here (which I won't go on about too much, honestly). If one expresses quite strong points of view, they are rather 'lessened' in my view if the English in them is wonky; wonky enough to be interpreted in an incorrect way. We've been here before, and I'll say no more, but I have chuckled, so thanks to the parties involved.

 

Speaking of interpretation, how about this..................?

 

1039016521_newBachmannV201.jpg.72ee8640e0eabc57a1a86c8e28af31d1.jpg

 

1197475998_newBachmannV202.jpg.ee2fff59e0e76656e75c03bad071cb5a.jpg

 

Bachmann's new interpretation of a V2. The first 'independent' shots?

 

I have it on loan for a week, to test on LB and to write a report. It's one of the first proving prototypes and, as such, has seen much in the way of handling and passing around. Thus, inevitably, a few bits have been knocked off.

 

The motion is hand-cut from brass. Production models will have fully-fluted motion. 

 

It represents a loco in later BR condition, with the tender rear coal division plate moved further forward and extended upwards. Other options will be available, including locos with larger outside steampipes (those fitted with separate cylinder castings). Examples will also be available 'as-built' by the LNER. 

 

First impressions - not just mine, but those who commented at the show? Superb! Wonderful! Brilliant! It runs superbly, too. 

 

The asymmetric lubricator positions were commented on. This arrangement (which I've never noted before) is certainly present on the preserved GREEN ARROW, but I'm not sure it's on every loco. I'm also not sure about the cab ventilators. As arranged here, they'd be open all the time.

 

I state again, this is a proving model, and I'll be sending my observations to Bachmann. What a privileged position to be in!

 

I'm told the target price will be 'around' £200.00, hopefully less, with the first deliveries by Warley next year.

 

Don't we live in exciting times?  

 

  

Lovely looking model of a very distinctive prototype.  I will be delighted if it starts a trend for empty tenders and bunkers, something I think will be a big improvement on the plastic coal.  Real locos spent most of their working days with less than a full load of coal, and one hears tales of long distance expresses running in to London termini with nothing but dust in the tender; the standard RTR approach is full or nothing, and those of us who like to put real coal on top make them even fuller.  

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On 07/12/2019 at 20:15, Tony Wright said:

Despite it being an interesting title, no publisher (as yet) has asked me to write The Book of Backgrounds.

There could be real mileage in this. So, so many photos published for the locomotive subject have a more intriguing background feature. A book gathering up some of these with identifications/explanations would be tremendously educational/inspirational for modellers and enthusiasts such as those on here (myself included) who have a thirst for knowledge and analysis of past railways. Just thought I'd add my 'thrupence' worth.

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5 hours ago, DougN said:

Tony, the V2 looks fantastic. Have to say I would like one in the future. There are things on the model which arent included in the Martin Finney kit I am building at the moment! I see the difficulty of the roll to the front of the fire box and the fit to the cab is still there! OK Yes I know this is a test shot. I have had immense problems with the front of the fire box which has resulted in a bit of a frustrated build. 

 

Interesting the angle of the photo doesn't show the "splashers" that are below the foot plate between the wheels but they are there over the wheels. I believe these are at 45 degrees to the vertical. Only once getting into the build of the kit did I even know these existed! I will continue with my build  (and the next V2!) While enjoying the RTR that comes out as well. 

 

So a big gold star for Bachmann on this so far! 

It is fantastic, Doug,

 

I'm told, on the production models, the firebox/cab fit will be perfect.

 

And, regarding those weeny internal splashers, they're there!

 

The tender bunker will be modelled as empty (complete with all internal studs and rivets, as well as lifting rings), but a 'drop-in' (and out) coal load will be supplied. There's even the fire iron bracket, and a fire iron! 

 

In case anyone is 'alarmed' by my mentioning a few bits dropping off, this model has seen many miles, in and out of (very) temporary packaging (just a bit of wrapped foam!), so I think it's stood up very well. Full-length cylinder drain cock pipes will also be supplied.

 

When fully-painted and delivered, do I think it'll be the finest RTR steam-outline loco ever made in OO? I doubt if there's anything better!

 

I'm giving it a full run today. I'm told it took 12 Bachmann carriages with ease on test at base. I'll be asking it to haul a bit more than that! I'll let you all know.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Oh that Farish would rework the abysmal effort that they produced a few years ago.  I’ll say it quietly, but these have never been my favourite Gresley engine, but a good one on CF would be welcome!

 

Tim

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On 07/12/2019 at 14:17, Headstock said:

 

Andy,

 

Under such circumstances and if I was part of the peer review process, my advice to you would be not to publish but go away and do some more research. 

I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one. I would prefer to see what information the author has managed to ascertain rather than wait for perfection which will probably never arrive.

 

On 07/12/2019 at 14:17, Headstock said:

 

P.s. your GC bogie van has scrubbed up rather well, did peer review have an effect?

There were a few helpful comments on this when I posted my work in progress on 'Coulsdon Works' including yours, particularly about getting the brass much cleaner before I painted. I think the painting has come up well, so I'm grateful for the help. I couldn't incorporate all of the advice however - for example, Jonathan W told me that the slats would probably have been boarded over on the inside when it stopped being a fish van. As the roof was soldered on, it wasn't very practical to incorporate that advice, but it will be if and when I build the second kit which I have in my stash.

 

Sorry for the tardy response, I have had a busy weekend watching the mightly 'R's smash Preston and then at the Peterborough show.

 

Andy

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