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Wright writes.....


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Lots of talk about digital media, the weather in ‘63, aesthetics, so I thought I’d try and drag the thread back to a bit of modelling.
In it’s pre cleaned up state, a scratch built J94 which has been under construction for about nine years,I do a lot of EM stuff too but there’s nothing unusual about that.

 

Brendan

91B6A8A3-252C-4F89-9F53-D0AF86997F97.jpeg

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1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I absolutely agree, and would suggest that they are in fact representative of something even more important than Mallard, which only ever worked on one route really and never became a national standard.  Ideally a full HST set should be preserved, ideally in full working condition.  This is the train that not only saved British Rail, but to a very large extent railways in Britain, beating the traffic on the motorways and, when they were introduced, the fastest train in the world that did not charge a supplementary fare or need to be pre booked, and the fastest diesel train in the world in regular timetable service on 'traditional' railways.  Much maligned British Rail had already progressed to the only trains in the world not requiring supplementary fares with air conditioning, electric heating, and double glazed tinted windows with the later mk2 stock, and these features continued with the HST.  A remarkable feat for which BR should receive a lot more praise than it is usually given.  We were rightly very proud of it.

 

Those two power cars HAVE to be preserved as they are as significant to Diesel traction as Mallard to steam

https://national-preservation.com/threads/a-bit-of-history-surrounding-the-148-5-mile-h-world-diesel-speed-record.1416838/

 

Also 43104 is in the 140 club as are a few others.

 

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

43002 is already in the Railway Museum.

 

 

Only the first production not a record holder

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening,

 

For copyright reasons I'm reluctant to reveal the photographer's name (though the picture has probably been published before). I can tell you that he's dead, the camera is a Leica and the film is Kodachrome. I don't know if a filter of any kind was used. What's certain is that ROBERT THE DEVIL is beautifully-clean; a not uncommon occurrence at this time (1961), despite some reluctance to accept that elsewhere. 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Fully agree Tony . Pretty much all Top shed A3s and A4s were kept nice and clean in the late 50s early 60s . Foreman cleaner Dick Ball (I think his name was) and his gang of Polish chaps worked diligently to make sure of that .    I was there .

And Grantham big engines were kept pretty good as well at the time . I was in a cleaning gang of four in late '57 / '58 . So I can vouch for that . That was prior to going up to Top shed for two years on loan , firing .

AND the double chimneyed ,  kylchap blast piped   A3s WERE a match for the 2000 hp. type 4 deisels of the time , as someone said . They weren't likely to keep up with 3000 hp Deltics were they , and especially the HSTs , with 2850 hp. (was it ?)  on each end of 8 coaches  !

I remember well one day working an express from Grantham to KX on a diesel timed diagram with such an A3 , as the diesel steam heating boiler had failed , I believe it was . No problem , a piece of cake , a lovely engine .                                                                                                                                                                  And I certainly cherish the memories .

 

Regards Roy .

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5 hours ago, MJI said:

The rear power car should be in the national collection, if it or 43159 goes to scrap it will be a national tragedy in railway history terms. Both should be NRM parked next to Mallard. To be honest those 2 power cars are as important to British railway history as Mallard.

86204 sadly went to the breakers this century and that's the locomotive that broke Mallard's UK speed record after over 30 years, although it's not often mentioned; the later APT and HST speed records are.

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10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I tend to agree about being "beholden to behemoths" but not just in storage of history, but economically.  I wonder if we are sleepwalking into an era of our lives' expenditure being dominated by perhaps half a dozen corporations.  But without drifting off-topic:

 

I am more optimistic about preservation of images though.  Yes some will get lost but we probably overlook how much film-based imagery is already lost.  I know so many people who when receiving their family snaps back, simply threw the negatives away.  Millions more images will have been lost to fire. flood, poor storage (slides especially) and the uninterested/unknowing family clearing a house after the death of a relative.   Perhaps it is upon us all to ensure that our images are backed up to two "sets of discs", one accessible to the family and the other with a trusted enthusiast friend.  The family disc would have that person's details ("to be notified in the event of my death" etc.).  Alternatively, we get it documented in all our wills that the images are to be passed or sold to one of the railway image libraries.  The latter might get the attention of the worst money-grabbing relatives, knowing they can make a few hundred quid from what they thought was junk, but at least the history is preserved.

Interestingly we all now have access to cheap self publishing. I find increasingly I make printed books of my best images (particularly of children) for posterity with headings and descriptions. Apple offer such a service as do Blurb ... there are others ... the quality is very good and the cost (depending on how big the book is) in the £20 range.

Edited by Lecorbusier
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8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

There wasn't much rain and dew in January 1963, Mick.

 

Remember the big freeze? Ice and snow, yes. 60028 never moved under its own power again, and it is not covered in muck. 60003, 60014 and 60033 were all in the same condition (the first A4s, along with 60028, withdrawn).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

1955 rather than 63 .... but just had to post this.....

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Mick,

 

'I remember a bit cold I was a mere baby then :unsure::huh:.'

 

I wasn't, I was 16, and, like many houses of the time (ours was Victorian) we had no central heating! The loco coal stacks at 6A had a railway policeman guarding them. 

 

The Dee froze over at Chester and folk were driving their cars across it to get to The Meadows! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I remember too (I was 13), I recall the ice inside the bedroom window (no central heating either), and also the best bit - the school bus froze and couldn't be moved at all.

Edited by johnarcher
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4 hours ago, chrisf said:

City of New Orleans, eh?  For my money the Arlo Guthrie version has the edge on that by the late Steve Goodman, who wrote it.

Hi Chris. Not railways but check out Jerry Reed's version (1977) on YouTube. You will not be disappointed. Phew! this thread moves faster than the City of New Orleans!

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4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I absolutely agree, and would suggest that they are in fact representative of something even more important than Mallard, which only ever worked on one route really and never became a national standard.  Ideally a full HST set should be preserved, ideally in full working condition.  This is the train that not only saved British Rail, but to a very large extent railways in Britain, beating the traffic on the motorways and, when they were introduced, the fastest train in the world that did not charge a supplementary fare or need to be pre booked, and the fastest diesel train in the world in regular timetable service on 'traditional' railways.  Much maligned British Rail had already progressed to the only trains in the world not requiring supplementary fares with air conditioning, electric heating, and double glazed tinted windows with the later mk2 stock, and these features continued with the HST.  A remarkable feat for which BR should receive a lot more praise than it is usually given.  We were rightly very proud of it.

It is pause for thought that the HSTs will shortly have outlasted the entire LNER Pacific era (1922-1966), racking up far higher mileages, far more intensive use and in service over a far greater variety of routes.  

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7 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

It is pause for thought that the HSTs will shortly have outlasted the entire LNER Pacific era (1922-1966), racking up far higher mileages, far more intensive use and in service over a far greater variety of routes.  

 

Another way of looking at them is that they provided the long-distance passenger services on the principal ex-GWR routes out of London for longer than the Castle Class.

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1 hour ago, johnarcher said:

I remember too (I was 13), I recall the ice inside the bedroom window (no central heating either), and also the best bit - the school bus froze and couldn't be moved at all.

 

I grew up in an Elizabethan cottage with no central heating. If I lay in bed at the right angle I could see the night sky where the lathe and plaster had slightly shrunk back from the beams. I used to get dressed under a blanket and yes there was often ice on the inside of the windows. It must have been brutally cold when there was no glass and only wooden shutters, sliding in channels to keep the weather out.

To this day I hate stuffy rooms and generally have reasonably good resistance to feeling the cold. Mind you one year at the St Albans exhibition I think it was about -7 or something in the afternoon and that was really bitter.

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29 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

It is pause for thought that the HSTs will shortly have outlasted the entire LNER Pacific era (1922-1966), racking up far higher mileages, far more intensive use and in service over a far greater variety of routes.  

Not on the ECML. Today was the last day of LNER HST services.

Mike Wiltshire

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The HSTs have been superb over many years.

 

Yet they never captured the imagination of many enthusiasts.

 

When they came out, we disliked them because they meant the end of Deltics and most long distance loco hauled passenger trains on the ECML.

 

I don't even remember recording their numbers when they arrived, although I was still spotting at the time. They were just glorified DMUs and not worth bothering with.

 

Yet a short while ago I visited the GCR (North) preservation site and had a ride behind the prototype power car in a decent length HST set (although with a 47 at the other end). I almost had a bit of nostalgia for it!

 

To me, it would be an ideal project to keep a full set active and available on the main line for specials. Preserving just a power car or two doesn't seem adequate as it was always a full train and never just a locomotive to me.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

I hate bending handrails, especially GC ones.  To make matters worse they sometimes have an integral top lamp bracket. 
3D192752-328B-4290-917D-2728E5BBF1B7_zps
 

It took me three top stanchions & three handrails to get this acceptable result. Details in the 2mm section.

02FA2C69-0078-4828-83F3-D983F4AFC39B_zps

 

Along with the curvaceous chimney and all the other bits, very much the face of the engine. 
 

Tim

 

Some good looking curves there TIm!

 

They look just right.

 

 

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7 hours ago, chrisf said:

City of New Orleans, eh?  For my money the Arlo Guthrie version has the edge on that by the late Steve Goodman, who wrote it.

 

Chris

For me, whoever performs it, it's the best railway/road song of all.

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3 hours ago, johnarcher said:

the ice inside the bedroom window (no central heating either)

Our student house in Leeds, circa 1978, was the same. You had to scrape the ice off to see what the weather outside was like.

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The 62/63 winter was when the S&C got closed by snow and IIRC the southbou d Thames Clyde got stuck near Dent. The Peak obviously froze solid and apparently  the ice distorted the crankcase. A Holbeck fitter I knew told me that they could always recognise that particular power unit when it came in for maintenance.  They had had to make a new set of drive shafts for the various drives off the crankshaft because of the distortion.  I also remember ice on our steel framed windows that window, as well as walking across Derwentwater from Keswick to Portinscale.

 

Jamie

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

Not on the ECML. Today was the last day of LNER HST services.

Mike Wiltshire

41 years then on the ECML.

 

Not bad?

 

The Pacific era was 1922 to (I suppose) the banning of steam south of Peterborough in 1963, so much the same (though steam still got through to the 'Cross for at least another year). 

 

Is the HST the greatest British 'train' of all time? I think so. Even today on the ECML, nothing goes further or faster.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Not bad?

 

Definitely, especially for a train originally envisaged only as a stopgap prior to electrification.

 

21 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Even today on the ECML, nothing goes further or faster.

 

... or is more comfortable for the passengers.

 

Pete T.

 

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19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

41 years then on the ECML.

 

Not bad?

 

The Pacific era was 1922 to (I suppose) the banning of steam south of Peterborough in 1963, so much the same (though steam still got through to the 'Cross for at least another year). 

 

Is the HST the greatest British 'train' of all time? I think so. Even today on the ECML, nothing goes further or faster.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The Australian XPT was re-engineered by Staterail engineer Stan Dick for the different local conditions, including a derate of the Paxman Valenta engine and revised engine room layout.  The coaches were very different being a Budd design with HST bogies.  The sleepers in the consist were a unique design with a toilet/washbasin/shower in a cubicle.  I was surprised that more railways did not employ them, as they enabled much faster journey times on existing track.

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53 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

The Australian XPT was re-engineered by Staterail engineer Stan Dick for the different local conditions, including a derate of the Paxman Valenta engine and revised engine room layout.  The coaches were very different being a Budd design with HST bogies.  The sleepers in the consist were a unique design with a toilet/washbasin/shower in a cubicle.  I was surprised that more railways did not employ them, as they enabled much faster journey times on existing track.

The late John Dunn of Comeng had a big hand in it too I believe.

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