Wright writes.....

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andy 

 

Hornby have found a red that is not maroon or crimson but somewhere in between. 

 

Hornby seem to like using in-between colours.  I have found that a good match for their current version of LNER locomotive green is a 50/50 mix of Railmatch’s Doncaster and Darlington greens (Nos. 620 & 621).

 

As Theakerr says, a matt wash often helps to adjust colour.  I have used a mix of 75% matt or satin varnish to 25% desired colour mix, applied with a brush, with some success (although admittedly I haven’t tried it with maroon).  Diluting the paint pigmentation with varnish helps to prevent things like lining and brass handles disappearing, but it is enough to shift the background paint hue.  Maybe try the technique on a small test area?  

[APOLLO]

That Dapol O Sentinel is superb - crying out for a plank to run on !!

 

Brit15

[Ollie K]

Evening all,

 

Time to out myself as the ‘younger friend’ who had the privilege of visiting Little Bytham for the first time over Christmas. I grew up in the next town over and have watched modern-day expresses speed down Stoke Bank for more afternoons than I care to admit, hence the username. Twenty-eight still counts as young, then? Phew – I’ve a few years for skills to catch up with those found on RMWeb.

 

 

Tony and Mo’s kind hosting (and homemade soup) more than lived up to the reputation, and as for the railway – what in original praise can I add to a thread already over 1600 pages long? It’s a triumph, and for me has a personal connection in that my grandfather started out as an engine cleaner at New England shed post-school, then moved up to fireman until he left to join the Royal Marines in 1954. 

 

 

He’s often regaled me with tales of firing Pacifics up and down the bank, though maintains V2s and WD Austeritys were his real favourites.

 

 

I was lucky enough to ‘drive’ all of them and more in through Bytham in the running session, operating the railway as per prototype, and occasionally just watching the trains go by. Enough wistfulness though, here’s a montage.

 

Excuse the far shoddier camera work than you’re all used to in this little corner of the internet, but here’s a few GoPro clips and snaps from the day’s running. The couple of uncannily authentic derailments that TW deliberately staged (and rectified) in order to demonstrate to this novice the value of accurate couplings and back-to-back measurements weren’t captured. I left as inspired as I have been by any exhibition, and brimmed with new factoids. I’d never even picked up a brass OO loco until visiting LB. What a piece of kit.

 

 

An 8x4 tail-chaser will have to do as my skills workshop for now, but an ECML magnus opus like Bytham is the aspiration. Ironically enough, that’s been much the topic of discussion on here in the past few days. 

 

 

Bonus feature: a textbook demonstration of Bytham’s cassette mechanism. From choosing a train off the shelf to seeing it run into the station itself, a mere 1min 58 seconds.

 

Thanks again Tony, and to everyone who contributes so much knowledge and experience here.

 

The very best of new years to you all. What a tremendous hobby this is. 

 

Ollie

Edited January 4, 2020 by OliverBytham
Video embed woes, so YouTube clips now saved as links.

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've come across this phenomenon, Tony.

 

I don't know how hard Romford crankpins are, but I've experienced two different sets of circumstances. 

 

Years ago, Tony Geary built an A1, and, after some running, its rods effectively 'sawed through its crankpins! The rods are nickel silver. He replaced the crankpins, and since then it's been fine.

 

I had the opposite thing happen years ago with a B1. Its rods were also nickel silver, and its crankpins were also brass. It started behaving 'lumpily'. I investigated, and the rods had oval holes in them, yet the 'pins were hardly worn. 

 

Both locos have very-heavy bodies. 

 

I know there must be different grades of metal, all sharing the same generic name, but I always thought nickel silver was harder than brass. Where do both come on Moh's hardness scale, I wonder? (I think that's the spelling of Moh). 

 

I've also noticed brass frames 'biting' into steel axles. Weird!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Ken Hill purchased a very nice LMS sreamlined pacific from the estate of a deceased friend.

 

After no more than 5 minutes running, a brass Romford crankpin sheared off. I replaced it and ten minutes later the same thing happened again. When a third crankpin went the same way, I got fed up and had a proper look at it and the cusp on the inside of the coupling rod had not been removed and the sharp nickel silver edge was acting like a saw on he brass pin. A quick ream and a Gibson Steel bush (because the hole was too sloppy a fit for me now) later and it now runs with no problems.

 

Yet exactly as you have described, some of the nickel silver coupling rod holes on Buckingham locos are huge now but the brass crankpins show no wear.

 

If some do and some don't, my instinct tells me that it is different grades of metal at the heart of the problem, especially if minute particles of grit embed themselves in some grades more than others, as I am sure they will.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Maybe it is the lighting or my eyesight but the planking on the new one looks to have quite wide groove lines between the planks and the planks themselves seem to have a slightly rounded edge profile, whereas the older ones have slightly narrower plank grooves and the planks look flatter. If you look at a real brake van, the groove lines are tiny in comparison. The actual arrangement of the planks looks fine.

 

I am quite prepared to hear that I am imagining things! I do that sort of thing often but I usually have a good eye for small differences in things. I once told Malcolm, after he had cut out a footplate for a loco, that he needed to square it up because it was slightly wider at one end. He refused to accept it and ended up getting his digital vernier on it. Even after he measured it, he refused to accept that I had spotted a 0.3mm difference over around 150mm length with my naked eyes but it stuck out like a sore thumb to me!

I can do that too but unfortunately only after the blasted model has been built...

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

And the Hornby ex-LSWR brake van in BR unfitted grey. I assume this colour is correct?

It will be close enough for me.

[t-b-g]

1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

I can do that too but unfortunately only after the blasted model has been built...

 

I think it is safe to say now that he is no longer with us but sometimes, just sometimes, I would enjoy winding Malcolm up a bit. If he went out of the room, I would pick up what he was working on and quickly check a dimension. Say it was something that should be 12mm long. If it measured 12.05mm, I would casually mention when he came back, "Are you sure you haven't got that just a shade too long?" We would have a debate with him saying how I couldn't possibly tell just by looking and eventually he would measure it and get quite grumpy about it.

 

Happy days!

 

Squareness and parallel lines I could usually establish just by looking but when I got him like that a few times, he never did work out how I could judge a length like that!

 

Sadly, my superb vision for such things seems to work better on models others are building than my own and yes, I too see the problem after it is finished.

 

 

[Andy Reichert]

Thanks for all the tips on the Hornby "Red". I'll be checking those out over the next coupla months. I'll be changing the wheels out for P4 ones, (but set to 16.5 mm gauge) anyway, and fitting some experimental couplings scale auto coup[lings, so will have plenty of work to do on them regardless. 

 

Andy

[Philou]

Tony,

 

I believe it to be spelt 'Mohr'.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Erichill16]

22 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

Thanks for all the tips on the Hornby "Red". I'll be checking those out over the next coupla months. I'll be changing the wheels out for P4 ones, (but set to 16.5 mm gauge) anyway, and fitting some experimental couplings scale auto coup[lings, so will have plenty of work to do on them regardless. 

 

Andy

Well you seem to have some tips to have ago at. I really hope you can get the models sorted. I’ve got some in teak and they are a really nice model.

Good look and happy modelling.

Regards Eric

[St Enodoc]

28 minutes ago, Philou said:

Tony,

 

I believe it to be spelt 'Mohr'.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

No, it's Mohs - after Friedrich Mohs.

[polybear]

16 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

......or was the retailer breaking the law....

 

 

...whilst applying a modicum of common sense and reasonable packaging....

 

13 hours ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

Having just received a batch of 10 Gresley suburbans from a couple of sources as an Xmas present here in California, I was dismayed to find that they are all red instead of maroon. 

 

My way of selecting them was to go to my big UK box shifter and search for "Gresley Maroon", and order the ones shown.  And  these items all came up as "maroon".

 

Since they were ordered a few weeks in advance and return shipping is prohibitive I'm kind of stuck (and unhappy with the supplier). Why didn't they know the colour had changed and alter their search terms? 

 

I'd love to repaint them, but the glazing is glued in and the door handles are brass. So apart from a huge job, it would seem to be very difficult to do at all,

 

Andy

 

I'm guessing at Hattons or Rails. If so then Hattons indicate that return postage will be reimbursed for faulty damaged or incorrect items:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/list/eventdetails.aspx?eventid=14

Unfortunatetly Rails only do this for UK customers though:

https://railsofsheffield.com/help/terms-and-conditions

[Dunsignalling]

18 hours ago, Denbridge said:

 

Regarding colour, I remember a preserved SR pillbox brake van at, i think, the Bluebell a few years ago. It hasn't been painted for a while and the paint had faded to a colour similar to that depicted by Hornby. I doubt they remained dark brown for long in SR days either.

 

 

Agreed, though it's possibly a bit pale even for a faded one, but not so much that a bit of judicious weathering couldn't put it right.

 

In terms of comparison with Bachmann's SR Pillboxes, I've always considered them to be a tad on the dark side, anyway.

 

John

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[richard i]

18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Agreed, though it's possibly a bit pale.

 

In terms of comparison with Bachmann's SR Pillboxes, I've always considered them to be a tad on the dark side, anyway.

 

John

 

 

 

Bachman as sith, Hornby as Jedi. Sorry but someone would get in the Star Wars reference if I did not. 

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, OliverBytham said:

Evening all,

 

Time to out myself as the ‘younger friend’ who had the privilege of visiting Little Bytham for the first time over Christmas. I grew up in the next town over and have watched modern-day expresses speed down Stoke Bank for more afternoons than I care to admit, hence the username. Twenty-eight still counts as young, then? Phew – I’ve a few years for skills to catch up with those found on RMWeb.

 

 

Tony and Mo’s kind hosting (and homemade soup) more than lived up to the reputation, and as for the railway – what in original praise can I add to a thread already over 1600 pages long? It’s a triumph, and for me has a personal connection in that my grandfather started out as an engine cleaner at New England shed post-school, then moved up to fireman until he left to join the Royal Marines in 1954. 

 

 

He’s often regaled me with tales of firing Pacifics up and down the bank, though maintains V2s and WD Austeritys were his real favourites.

 

 

I was lucky enough to ‘drive’ all of them and more in through Bytham in the running session, operating the railway as per prototype, and occasionally just watching the trains go by. Enough wistfulness though, here’s a montage.

 

Excuse the far shoddier camera work than you’re all used to in this little corner of the internet, but here’s a few GoPro clips and snaps from the day’s running. The couple of uncannily authentic derailments that TW deliberately staged (and rectified) in order to demonstrate to this novice the value of accurate couplings and back-to-back measurements weren’t captured. I left as inspired as I have been by any exhibition, and brimmed with new factoids. I’d never even picked up a brass OO loco until visiting LB. What a piece of kit.

 

 

An 8x4 tail-chaser will have to do as my skills workshop for now, but an ECML magnus opus like Bytham is the aspiration. Ironically enough, that’s been much the topic of discussion on here in the past few days. 

 

 

Bonus feature: a textbook demonstration of Bytham’s cassette mechanism. From choosing a train off the shelf to seeing it run into the station itself, a mere 1min 58 seconds.

 

Thanks again Tony, and to everyone who contributes so much knowledge and experience here.

 

The very best of new years to you all. What a tremendous hobby this is. 

 

Ollie

Thanks Ollie,

 

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. I know John, George and I did as well.

 

Thanks also for the pictures and the DVD footage (that failed signal is annoying!). The RTR N7 ran very well. 

 

Please arrange another visit.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, Philou said:

Tony,

 

I believe it to be spelt 'Mohr'.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Thanks Philip,

 

It's over 50 years since I last studied geology!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

No, it's Mohs - after Friedrich Mohs.

Thanks John,

 

So I was right after all!

 

For those who might be puzzled about what's going on here, the hardness scale gives an indication of how resistant materials are. I think the softest is talc (which is 1?) and the hardest is diamond (which is 10?). Anything with a higher number will scratch anything with a lower number, without itself being eroded (if that's the theory). 

 

Which is why I'm stumped over the relative 'wearing' of brass and nickel silver. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

[chris p bacon]

14 hours ago, Ian Smeeton said:

Here is a 12":1' scale one for comparison.

 

 

Preserved, and not certain about the correctness of the colour, but should give an idea of the planking.

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

I would be wary of using preserved vehicles for verification of details like planking. 

 

Having been involved in some C & W restoration a favourite trick is to use sheets of 1" Marine ply with V grooves routed in the board to represent planking. The groove is then topped with resin to seal the laminations and after painting looks the part but is a bit 'regular' in comparison to sides made of individual boards.  This technique also means the groove can never be a deep V.

[PMP]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

...whilst applying a modicum of common sense and reasonable packaging....

 

Good luck in court with that one. Having in the past seen the commercial impact a minor fluid spill did to an aircraft hold, i’d just follow the rules.

[Chamby]

Royal Mail are quite happy to carry stool samples in a flimsy envelope as part of the National bowel cancer screening programme, but won’t take 15ml of inert acrylic paint in a sealed pot.

 

Bonkers...

[Jol Wilkinson]

14 hours ago, Anglian said:

 

I agree regarding the planking.

The human eye is capable of detecting a difference of 0.05mm, perhaps even less. I wonder how thin or slight a blemish our finger tips can register.

 

About .001" or .02mm (possibly even less), as I recall from my engineering student days. The thickness of a  .0015" or .001" feeler gauge is quite detectable with the finger tip or finger nail.

 

Very small surface imperfections are often readily visible to the eye, more so on smooth surfaces such as gloss paint and especially for dark colours.  Presumably the LNWR chose black for the locos and dark plum for the lower carriage panels just to make it difficult for those of us who model the Premier Line in 4mm.

 

As for obtaining paint etc. via the internet or mail order my experience has been that the established model railway suppliers generally adhere to the rules (which do seem a bit stupid at times) but Ebay traders are often a law unto themselves. Sending two aerosol cans of highly inflammable carburettor cleaner through the post in a large jiffy bag seems stupid for anyone but a complete moron (and no, it wasn't me that sent them, I was the recipient). It probably helps if your trading name doesn't reflect what you are sending, but Phoenix Precision Paints are a but stuck to start with. Perhaps they could change their name to Small Scale Hand Applied Flexible Stuff, which might fox the Royal Mail.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Jol Wilkinson
Additional text

[chris p bacon]

9 minutes ago, Chamby said:

Royal Mail are quite happy to carry stool samples in a flimsy envelope as part of the National bowel cancer screening programme, but won’t take 15ml of inert acrylic paint in a sealed pot.

 

Bonkers...

 

Just how big a 'sample' are you sending in a flimsy envelope...it is something akin to a mascara brush with a smear on it now. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by chris p bacon

[Jol Wilkinson]

22 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Just how big a 'sample' are you sending in a flimsy envelope...it is something akin to a mascara brush with a smear on it now. 

Dave,

 

presumably you haven't been invited to partake in the screening programme, perhaps you are too young. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/bowel-cancer-screening/

 

Suffice to say "smear test" is about right but cardboard coffee stirring stick might be slightly more accurate than mascara brush. 

 

Jol

[gr.king]

12 hours ago, t-b-g said:

If some do and some don't, my instinct tells me that it is different grades of metal at the heart of the problem, especially if minute particles of grit embed themselves in some grades more than others, as I am sure they will.

 

I've assumed for years that the "mystery" of greater wear of the hard metal than of the soft metal where flat rubbing surfaces meet was due to grit particles embedding in the softer metal and then grinding away the hard stuff. I first encountered this when not just the meshing teeth, but the flats sides of the gears in a car oil pump had worn badly yet the alloy casing was barely affected where the gear sides rubbed against it. With new gears in the old case the action of the pump was good as new, output and pressure fully restored.

[Tony Wright]

I've discovered that I've actually got two original Hornby (ex-Airfix) 20T LMS brake vans on LB, both the property of Rob Davey (or they're his work). 

 

 

Here's the first, detailed and weathered by Rob, including a 'canvas' (toilet paper) roof and additional ballast. It seems to have got a bit 'bent' in old age!

 

 

I thought the latest one was so good, that I've detailed and weathered this one for use on the M&GNR. 

 

 

I've also detailed and weathered the fitted one. It's standing next to the other Hornby original (right). Though the roof is certainly finer, that bowed horizontal handrail is a bit alarming. I honestly can't tell any difference in the planking.