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On 08/01/2020 at 16:41, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for mentioning that, Ray,

 

One other point (which I'm, sure I've mentioned before) regarding the A2/2s is to why the nameplates (the shorter ones) were moved forward on the smokebox in later years. 

 

When first rebuilt (and renamed) in LNER days, and into earlier BR days the likes of LORD PRESIDENT, MONS MEG and THANE OF FIFE had their nameplates fixed some distance back on the smokebox. By the time the later BR emblem was adopted (or round about then), this trio had their 'plates moved further forward. The others' plates tended to remain where they were when first attached. I've never seen this mentioned in print, but I've seen it wrong on a few models - 'plates forward in LNER days, and 'plates further back in later BR days. This has nothing to do with later boiler changes.

 

Other matters concern the 'mistakes' in several established works - the RCTS and Isinglass stating that 60501 never got AWS, for instance. Or Peter Coster telling us that THANE OF FIFE is being scrapped on P. 152 in his Book of the A1 and A2 Pacifics, Irwell Press. It can't be - look at the dome's position and the fact that the side handrails are clipped to the smokebox front. It's EARL MARISCHAL. 

 

It's easy to see why Paul Isles and I (particularly Paul) had to be so diligent in the research for the models. This is what the market seems to expect now - 'absolute' fidelity to a specific loco in an RTR product. Who would have thought it? Time was when such minutia of detail differences would have been the realm only of the kit-/scratch-builder, or the determined RTR modifier. Not now.

 

Which makes me feel even more marginalised in a way. Up to the end of this year (maybe the beginning of next), anyone seeing a Thompson Pacific on a 4mm layout (or any scale?) must have worked out that it's an individual's work - in the case of the likes of Stoke Summit, Charwelton and Little Bytham (and Peterborough North) either scratch-built (yes, me), kit-built (again, yes me) or a much-modified RTR loco (not so much me). But, in a year's time they'll be everywhere! 

 

I hope they do sell - I really do, but pity any kit-maker's product for the same thing. Under £200.00 (amazing) for the Hornby example? You can add near another £150.00 (and more) to that if one wants a complete kit for the same.

 

Do I have any consolation? Of course; there's a good feeling at having helped a manufacturer (though, potentially, to the disadvantage of others), at being asked to help in the first place, and having the pleasure' of making so many Thompson Pacifics over the last 40+ years!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.   

You're quiet right , Tony , I have never seen any mention of the repositioning of the nameplates , even though it is clearly obvious in photographs . The other points you make are also correct , I think we have spoken about inaccurate statements in books & articles , especially with regard to photographs , which seem to be common nowadays . Trust nothing without corroboration !

   One question ; whist I know Peter Townend has written about the use of class A.2/3 on the cement train , I had always understood that it was at the instigation of Jack Somers , then Assistant DMPS at Peterborough . I may be wrong , but would like to know .

   I won't be buying any Hornby A.2/2 because I already have 5 plus the DGH kit for 60506 ; however I may buy a couple of the A.2/3 to replace my oldest , most inaccurate & poorest running Millholme efforts . Having looked in my cupboard I have realised that I may need to live longer than is likely to complete all the kits I still have !!

                             

     Best Wishes ,

                      Ray . 

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Well, as the designer I'm pleased that you like the 2mm version of 20001/2. 

The pics below are of my current 7mm creation [the scale I prefer working in]:

 

 

These are all SLA/FDM prints some of which have been given a coat of grey primer. They have required absolutely minimal going over with wet & dry and are almost ready to be used as masters for casting. However, before that they will be on the DEMU stand at Stevenage tomorrow [Saturday]

DSC_0003.JPG

DSC_0005.JPG

rear roof.jpg

Edited by Arun Sharma
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2 hours ago, Ray Flintoft said:

Having looked in my cupboard I have realised that I may need to live longer than is likely to complete all the kits I still have !!

                             

     Best Wishes ,

                      Ray . 

 

Welcome to the Club.  A very, very big Club.....

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For information:  About 6/7 years ago i purchased some 3D printed, 00, integrated working 3 link couplings and hooks via MOUSA.  They were installed on various wagons and are still working well including one at the end of a 32 wagon loaded coal train.    As a result of their success and ease of installation, I purchased some more.  Complete disaster.  Everyone has failed and as per Sod's Law at the most inconvenient time or place.  My friends at the local Maker Club suspect that either the plastic was changed, the printer was changed or the designer made a small but subtle change for whatever reason.  

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9 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

 Lets hope the Class 15 and 16 are the same

 

Onwards and (hopefully) upwards

 

Chris

 


Although I don’t have a 16 my 15 is fine on P4, (as is a W&M railbus, J15 et al). This may be because they mostly use the original wheels which have been shown the lathe and thus have P4 width flanges (well 0.4mm), but the depth is generally 0.5mm to allow a bit of leeway/wriggle room. 
 

Izzy

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There is some question over the stability of some of the UV cured SLA resins used for some model products.

 

I was given a set of prototype printed centre P4 loco wheels and advised that they should be assembled  without undue delay as the centres might "expand", reducing the axle bore. Fortunately I did so and also painted them which would, I subsequently learned, reduce the possibility of UV degradation.

 

I think that we are still at the bottom of the learning curve with 3D printed products. It is a technique that holds a lot of promise but still has some way to go. I have seen very few 3D printed products that can match the surface finish of injection moulded plastic, etched brass or n/s,  or good quality white metal casting. Alan at  Modelu, Bill Bedford at Mousa Models and some others are showing the way. High quality 3D prints are expensive but can provide a pattern/master to produce resin cast items that brings the unit cost down to levels that are commercially viable. For example the cost of a pattern and mould to produce a small saddle tank boiler/smokebox and tank can cost in excessive of £350, with castings at about £10 each. 

 

 

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3D pri ting was set up in NASA to allow Astronauts to make replacement tools (including adjustable spanners) with no need for them to be a stable item. BAE Systems used 3D printed items (non structural) to keep the VC10 and Tornado fleets flying (replacements for obsolete boxes etc).

 

On our club layout the big bits of 3D printed ites have been stable but smaller items (such as telegraph posts) have twisted a bit (but only the odd one or two)

 

Until we have a bit more background knowledge of the prints used it will always be a bit hit and miss using 3D prints.

 

However, we must be more circumspect of using the prints as long term masters until we know how stable the materials are.

 

I remeber the start of kits being provided with resin bodies/boilers etc. Things twisted, shrank (or didn't  shrink when the mould designwanted it to!) Getting paint to adhere was a problem as was adding weight. Seems like with 3D printing some people have taken a similar approach to the use of Resins.

 

Use the best material to do the job. It could be metal , plastics, 3D peinting or resin. Some of the items I was involved in at the design/manufacturing stage are still in use after 40 years (doesn't  time fly) and some of my locos and stock  are older than 40. My late fathers plasticard bodied locos have suffered a lot with age..but his brass locos are still fine.

 

Choose your materials wisely.

Baz

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9 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Fortunately I did so and also painted them which would, I subsequently learned, reduce the possibility of UV degradation.

 

 

I did note once that when plastic plumbing pipework etc.  is used outside the manufacturer recommends painting them to protect against UV degradation

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I was looking on the Hornby page for what they were saying about the A2s and saw that for the A2/2 it said that they worked out of York shed down the GCR. I was told at a recent GCRS meeting that the only known picture of a Thompson pacific on the GC was of 500 at Nottingham Victoria going for naming. So is there other proof that Hornby’s statement is correct? 

Many thanks

Richard 

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33 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

My most complicated 3D model to date was printed for the first time yesterday and is very much a work in progress:

 

IMG_1506.JPG.eaada523d551fb97e99468f010aaa635.JPG

 

IMG_1516.JPG.c3d33e191b2f705bc28bc3ef83443411.JPG

 

Why bother with the new Bachmann V2 announced? Good question. Reasons have all been given by Tony and others before me: cost; satisfaction; self-sufficiency and most importantly I wanted to prove I could do it.

 

 

 Do You plan to supply wedge fronted cabs to modify the new Hornby A2/2s?

 Hornby will not model the real Thompson shape as I understand the anouncement.

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3 minutes ago, Niels said:

 Do You plan to supply wedge fronted cabs to modify the new Hornby A2/2s?

 Hornby will not model the real Thompson shape as I understand the anouncement.

Did not plan to but anything is possible. As long as it does not involve me having to buy a Hornby A2/2.

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2 hours ago, richard i said:

I was looking on the Hornby page for what they were saying about the A2s and saw that for the A2/2 it said that they worked out of York shed down the GCR. I was told at a recent GCRS meeting that the only known picture of a Thompson pacific on the GC was of 500 at Nottingham Victoria going for naming. So is there other proof that Hornby’s statement is correct? 

Many thanks

Richard 

 

Good morning Richard i

 

The A2/2 and A2/3 made occasional appearances on the GC on B16 diagrams. So occasional that it probably isn't worth building or buying one in preference to a B16. There are plenty of references to such workings in spotters books and  documented workings in the RCTS in the late forties early fifties. The diagrams were one of the Dringhouses to Woodford early morning fitted freights. They were usually spotted returning north on a variety of workings from ordinary passenger trains, a twenty odd carriage ECS movement and even a single brake van. Lord President, Cock of the North and Straight Deal, all in LNER green, some with British Railways on the tender, are a couple that I recall off hand. Cock of the North was photographed at Nottingham Victoria on the aforementioned ECS movement, so the GC Society are not correct. You would have to get up very early to catch them going south on the fitted freights. Re the Hornby A2/2, they are not producing the tooling for the LNER version of the locomotives, so they are of no use in a GC context. To be honest, if you were modelling these workings, a York B16 would be the typical motive power.

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Stepped front edge to superheater header cover indeed, that's a surprise!

 

V-front cab in resin, but I can't find the original, better quality images.....

 

image.png.293f3c7e17e541e35469b616f3a02776.png

 

Try the attached file instead.

v.doc

Edited by gr.king
Attempt to include better image
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2 hours ago, richard i said:

I was looking on the Hornby page for what they were saying about the A2s and saw that for the A2/2 it said that they worked out of York shed down the GCR. I was told at a recent GCRS meeting that the only known picture of a Thompson pacific on the GC was of 500 at Nottingham Victoria going for naming. So is there other proof that Hornby’s statement is correct? 

Many thanks

Richard 

 

Did the A2/2's stray off the ECML occasionally ? I model North Notts (imaginary GC / GN north of Nottingham). For comparison the WCML Duchesses etc ran over the Wigan Tyldesley Manchester line etc - this was a diversionary route for them mainly. Did A2/2's wander off the main line during similar main line closures ?

 

As to 3D printing - we have a long way to go - but will get there quickly - I think it's the future, and not just for model railways either.

 

Edited to add - just read Headstocks interesting and informative post above - thanks.

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
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18 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Unfortunately not. For the windscreens I've cut and filed clear plastic sheet to size and glued in place with the merest smidge of super-glue. They're pretty small, around the size of a small finger nail, so the smaller side windows/quarter lights are either left 'open' or filled with micro-glaze/Kristal Klear.

 

RailNsale vehicles (from Shapeways) do have templates available on their website but there is the faff of downloading and accurately printing them out, then carefully cutting along a printed line by hand. I find it easier and quicker to do by eye.

 

 

You could had a free small toenail!

 

One of mine keeps falling off!

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I think the shots of the Bachmann V2 body with the appalling joint lines really puts the problems with 3D prints into perspective IMHO. As someone who has never really bought RTR (and nearly all diesels in recent years when I have), can anyone confirm that present day RTR steam no longer has any sign of these. (I can’t believe models ever got produced like this - quite stunned).

 

Izzy

 

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50 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I think the shots of the Bachmann V2 body with the appalling joint lines really puts the problems with 3D prints into perspective IMHO. As someone who has never really bought RTR (and nearly all diesels in recent years when I have), can anyone confirm that present day RTR steam no longer has any sign of these. (I can’t believe models ever got produced like this - quite stunned).

 

Izzy

 

The Bachmann V2 in the post above is very old tooling.  Circa 1990. A completely new V2 without these issues will hopefully be seen late 2020

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46 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I think the shots of the Bachmann V2 body with the appalling joint lines really puts the problems with 3D prints into perspective IMHO. As someone who has never really bought RTR (and nearly all diesels in recent years when I have), can anyone confirm that present day RTR steam no longer has any sign of these. (I can’t believe models ever got produced like this - quite stunned).

 

Izzy

 

No idea of the vintage of that V2 body , it is the worse example I have seen , others however are not much better . The old V2 is years behind in quality , Bachmann made a serious mistake in thinking people would be daft enough to buy the same body on a new chassis only. They tried to same trick with the V1/V3 body as well which is just as bad. It has taken them 3 years or more ? to produce a new V2 body and hopefully a new Tender that is just as archaic , at a guess Replica origins 20 plus years old ?  . The down side is they are now asking about £220 for one !

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