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4 hours ago, richard i said:

I was looking on the Hornby page for what they were saying about the A2s and saw that for the A2/2 it said that they worked out of York shed down the GCR. I was told at a recent GCRS meeting that the only known picture of a Thompson pacific on the GC was of 500 at Nottingham Victoria going for naming. So is there other proof that Hornby’s statement is correct? 

Many thanks

Richard 

 

No photo I'm afraid but a vivid memory, of Lord President in Nottingham Victoria. I think around 1957. I would have been 4 and it's the first named loco I have any recollection of, running in from the south along platform 4. 

Ever since I've promised myself that one day I would build a model of it, maybe I'll just wimp out and buy the Hornby one.

The first class 87 I renumbered for our Carstairs layout was (obviously?) Lord President. I see that DRS have named one if their class 68s Lord President as well.

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1 hour ago, great central said:

 

No photo I'm afraid but a vivid memory, of Lord President in Nottingham Victoria. I think around 1957. I would have been 4 and it's the first named loco I have any recollection of, running in from the south along platform 4. 

Ever since I've promised myself that one day I would build a model of it, maybe I'll just wimp out and buy the Hornby one.

The first class 87 I renumbered for our Carstairs layout was (obviously?) Lord President. I see that DRS have named one if their class 68s Lord President as well.

 

Good Afternoon Great Central,

 

it's a no-go on Lord President I'm afraid, silly old Hornby have not produced the tooling for that particular locomotive. The DJH kit is also of no use for the same reason, Your best option is the PDK kit or the old Crownline one if you can find one. Alternatively, some sort of complicated cut and shut based on the Bachmann A2 that Mick LNER could show examples of. A2/3 steady Aim is a loco that pops up in a number of 1950s references.

 

P.S. You may have witnessed one of the final runs over the London extension by a Thompson Pacific. I don't have any references or evidence  later than 57.

Edited by Headstock
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9 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good Afternoon Great Central,

 

it's a no-go on Lord President I'm afraid, silly old Hornby have not produced the tooling for that particular locomotive. The DJH kit is also of no use for the same reason, Your best option is the PDK kit or the old Crownline one if you can find one. Alternatively, some sort of complicated cut and shut based on the Bachmann A2 that Mick LNER could show examples of. A2/3 steady Aim is a loco that pops up in a number of 1950s references.

 

Thanks for that, I hadn't looked into the details of what they are producing. Highly unlikely I'll be buying a kit, I already have at least 15 loco kits alone still in their boxes, not to mention coach/carriage and wagon kits. Then there's the pile of stuff that I need to finish properly!

Given that most of my modelling enthusiasm disappeared getting on for 10 years ago now, I suspect much of the unstarted and unfinished stuff will stay in the same state.

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43 minutes ago, great central said:

 

Thanks for that, I hadn't looked into the details of what they are producing. Highly unlikely I'll be buying a kit, I already have at least 15 loco kits alone still in their boxes, not to mention coach/carriage and wagon kits. Then there's the pile of stuff that I need to finish properly!

Given that most of my modelling enthusiasm disappeared getting on for 10 years ago now, I suspect much of the unstarted and unfinished stuff will stay in the same state.

 

Great Central,

 

I can sympathize with your lack modelling enthusiasm. Personally, I don't have that many kits left in the stash, having successfully built my way through them. I intend to complete what I've got plus one or two new purchases this year.  I can then claim that I will have accomplished what I stared out to do. Beyond that I am undecided on the future, the wishing, buying and collecting side of the Hobby has no appeal to me.

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6 hours ago, richard i said:

I was looking on the Hornby page for what they were saying about the A2s and saw that for the A2/2 it said that they worked out of York shed down the GCR. I was told at a recent GCRS meeting that the only known picture of a Thompson pacific on the GC was of 500 at Nottingham Victoria going for naming. So is there other proof that Hornby’s statement is correct? 

Many thanks

Richard 

 

I can find no reference to A2’s on the GCR, only a couple of Peppercorn A1’s.

 

The last years of the Great Central Main Line” by Robert Rowbotham shows 60123 H.A.Ivatt approaching Loughborough in 1962 with a four coach (!) Sheffield to Leicester train, and 60114 W.P.Allen at Leicester on an excursion in 1964.  

 

There seems to be rather more evidence of West Country Pacifics (Rebuilt and unrebuilt), Duchess’s, A4’s and even a Schools on RCTS and Ian Allen railtours, or football specials.  Plus Halls, Britannia’s, GT3, even a Crosti 9F on regular runs.  

 

But Thompson A2’s seem to be notable for their absence...

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GC Mainline north of Nottingham A pictorial album (Lowlander Publications) has a photo of A2 60517 Ocean swell just outside Sheffield Vic heading a local to Doncaster. "British Railways" on the tender and looks to be in light green livery (B&W photo). Date is June 1948. There is also a photo of 60123 heading the 17-53 Sheffield to Leicester train under the viaduct at Chesterfield Central 1 June 63. 

 

Being a GC fan I have all Colin Walkers excellent GC books, along with many other GC books and I can't recall any A2/2 photos - I'll have an interesting trawl through this week and report here if I find any !!. Also being a GC railway society member I'll have a trawl through all my "Forward" mags - that will take a while longer though. (as I'll find things to read again whilst doing so !!).

 

Brit15

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

I can find no reference to A2’s on the GCR, only a couple of Peppercorn A1’s.

 

The last years of the Great Central Main Line” by Robert Rowbotham shows 60123 H.A.Ivatt approaching Loughborough in 1962 with a four coach (!) Sheffield to Leicester train, and 60114 W.P.Allen at Leicester on an excursion in 1964.  

 

There seems to be rather more evidence of West Country Pacifics (Rebuilt and unrebuilt), Duchess’s, A4’s and even a Schools on RCTS and Ian Allen railtours, or football specials.  Plus Halls, Britannia’s, GT3, even a Crosti 9F on regular runs.  

 

But Thompson A2’s seem to be notable for their absence...

 

Good afternoon Chamby,

 

You need better sources,

 

the Thompson pacific's were more common over the London extension than any of the locomotives that you quote. i.e. Bulleid Pacific's, Duchesses A1's and A4's. You have also missed the Peppercorn A2 that was shedded at Annesley for a short time.

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6 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good afternoon Chamby,

 

You need better sources,

 

the Thompson pacific's were more common over the London extension than any of the locomotives that you quote. i.e. Bulleid Pacific's, Duchesses A1's and A4's. You have also missed the Peppercorn A2 that was shedded at Annesley for a short time.

Happy knight if my memory serves me right. 

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1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

I can find no reference to A2’s on the GCR, only a couple of Peppercorn A1’s.

 

The last years of the Great Central Main Line” by Robert Rowbotham shows 60123 H.A.Ivatt approaching Loughborough in 1962 with a four coach (!) Sheffield to Leicester train, and 60114 W.P.Allen at Leicester on an excursion in 1964.  

 

There seems to be rather more evidence of West Country Pacifics (Rebuilt and unrebuilt), Duchess’s, A4’s and even a Schools on RCTS and Ian Allen railtours, or football specials.  Plus Halls, Britannia’s, GT3, even a Crosti 9F on regular runs.  

 

But Thompson A2’s seem to be notable for their absence...

 

Evening Chamby,

 

beware of Rowbotham, nice general picture books but his captions are terrible and the text........... Check out the RCTS, a much more reputable publication.

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1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

GC Mainline north of Nottingham A pictorial album (Lowlander Publications) has a photo of A2 60517 Ocean swell just outside Sheffield Vic heading a local to Doncaster. "British Railways" on the tender and looks to be in light green livery (B&W photo). Date is June 1948. There is also a photo of 60123 heading the 17-53 Sheffield to Leicester train under the viaduct at Chesterfield Central 1 June 63. 

 

Being a GC fan I have all Colin Walkers excellent GC books, along with many other GC books and I can't recall any A2/2 photos - I'll have an interesting trawl through this week and report here if I find any !!. Also being a GC railway society member I'll have a trawl through all my "Forward" mags - that will take a while longer though. (as I'll find things to read again whilst doing so !!).

 

Brit15

 

 

 

Colin Walkers books are excellent, his Son provided us with many photographs during the construction of LSGC. However, there are limitations. Colin didn't start photographing the GC until 1956, right at the end of the Eastern regions control of the line. Often the pages are laid out with a shot of a locomotive from 1956 next to another one from 1963. Sometimes, inadvertently, a false impression can be given of what locomotives actually ran alongside one another. The books are notable for what Colin missed as well as what he recorded. This is perfectly understandable as he could shoot at certain times and not at others. As an example, he never got a single picture of the ex GWR Swansea York or York Swansea Restaurant express trains, despite this the trains did exist, honest. They came through Leicester Central in the early to mid-afternoon. In our own research, though Colin's books were indispensable, we had to look to other sources with reference to anything prior to 1956.

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4 hours ago, davidw said:

The Bachmann V2 in the post above is very old tooling.  Circa 1990. A completely new V2 without these issues will hopefully be seen late 2020

 

I had a Hornby Rebuilt Scot on my bench today which I bought as a non-runner. It has two very faint moulding marks on the boiler at around 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock if you take the boiler top as 12 o'clock. I don't think you will ever be able to injection mould a boiler without some point at which the mould has a break.

 

I have never really taken much notice of RTR loco bodies but as this one decided not to come apart quite as it should when I needed to remove it to get at the motor, I was treated to just how many small detailing parts go into making one  as they all decided to fall off! In a way it is a little too detailed for a layout loco as some of them are very fragile and will not stand sustained handling.  It has been quite a task reattaching them and I am now quite in awe of the work that has gone into designing this particular loco.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

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Amazing what you find on the web. Here is A2 60528 'Tudor Minstrel' on the WCML storming north past Rylands Sidings signal box just north of Wigan North Western, 23 April 1966, care of Wigan World  http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=3&id=27892&gallery=Railways&offset=1000

 

The special is   https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/660423ar.html

 

04wvwluy.jpg

 

Another shot of the same train a little earlier at at Wigan NW off the web - doesn't she look "just the job" here. A full head of steam for Boars head bank immediately ahead. As good as a Duchess ?

 

25602652440_76e35f3395_b.jpg

 

Brit15

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Lived @ Neasden during the fiftie's and early sixtie's and my Father worked at Neasden  Shed 34E and then 14D  and he would always update me about visiting locos at lunchtime, but I never remember an  A2, A2/1 , A2/2 or A2/3 being mentioned. B16's   Britts including 70047, 70049 & 70054, various Royal Scots & Jubilees some York V2's  and then specials for Wembley on a  Saturday and occasionally mid week when footy internationals were played in the afternoon on Wednesdays. Of course the 9 A3's were  all shedded on the GC @ Neasden (& Leicester)  in the mid fifties, 60044, 60050,60051, 60052, 60054, 60063, 60102, 60103,  60104, & 60108.I also think 60054 Prince Oof Wales  & 60111 Enterprise were there ,  but that's just a possibility which is not corroborated on my part. I saw these engine many times at Grantham & Kings cross.

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23 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

My most complicated 3D model to date was printed for the first time yesterday and is very much a work in progress:

IMG_1520.JPG.89699275f5dfcfc897aa702f72a2c37a.JPG

 

 

Some thinks that LNER cabs and round top boilers look better  than  the LMS things.

If  LNER people had got the top jobs instead of Riddles /Cox  a 9F would have looked different.

Does it sound to obscene to put this nice 3D printed Cab/Boiler alongside a 9F model (if You have one of course) and make a picture?

 

 

I have bought a Dapol Evening star and a Bachmann V2 boilerCab so I can make the scheme myself.

Best British locomotive coming :

Three cylinder Compound 4-8-0 (improved 9F) with Cab and boiler from LNER V2

Money makes the world go roundlarge.1180805927_WP_20200112_0021.jpg.08980c3fd7327bc94ea2959cdd5414a8.jpg

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3 hours ago, APOLLO said:

. A full head of steam for Boars head bank immediately ahead. As good as a Duchess ?

 

25602652440_76e35f3395_b.jpg

 

Brit15

 A duchess is 5% heavier and uses roughly 10% more steam and coal for making same number of horses

Edited by Niels
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4 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Chamby,

 

beware of Rowbotham, nice general picture books but his captions are terrible and the text........... Check out the RCTS, a much more reputable publication.

Apparently, Robotham marked up corrections to captions which he had not written and text which had been edited and the publishers not only did not amend but instead made things worse. There were probably errors of his too but some were not of his making. This is far from untypical with certain publishers past, and possibly present too. I know someone else who was given only 24 hours to proof an entire book after it had been typeset and formatted and who had no time to ask anyone else to read through the captions (I had been lined up as someone to assist, but never had the chance). 

 

One thing I have not managed to track down is any list of corrections for Robotham's book, which does include many very interesting photos.

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29 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Apparently, Robotham marked up corrections to captions which he had not written and text which had been edited and the publishers not only did not amend but instead made things worse. There were probably errors of his too but some were not of his making. This is far from untypical with certain publishers past, and possibly present too. I know someone else who was given only 24 hours to proof an entire book after it had been typeset and formatted and who had no time to ask anyone else to read through the captions (I had been lined up as someone to assist, but never had the chance). 

 

One thing I have not managed to track down is any list of corrections for Robotham's book, which does include many very interesting photos.

 

Good evening Robert,

 

inspired by posting about trains for the first time in a while, I've soldered up the plug doors on an ECJS full brake this evening.

 

Back to poor old Robotham, he kept writing the same book, with the same captions over and over again. Seriously though, I have a soft spot for GCR's London extension. Some great pictures, some of the more interesting ones are a little small and the boring ones a little big but It remains as one of the better GC books. I've pencilled all over the captions, it's quite a useful reference now. The book so inspired me that I tracked down a number of the original photo collections, great fun. His best book is definitely GC from the footplate, written with Frank Stratford. Frank has sadly passed away now, but he came up to see LSGC a number of times, he was a mine of information and a jolly nice chap. Quite by chance, he bumped into a number of his former colleagues that he had not seen since he was a driver at Leicester, there was quite a reunion in front of the layout.

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2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Apparently, Robotham marked up corrections to captions which he had not written and text which had been edited and the publishers not only did not amend but instead made things worse. There were probably errors of his too but some were not of his making. This is far from untypical with certain publishers past, and possibly present too. I know someone else who was given only 24 hours to proof an entire book after it had been typeset and formatted and who had no time to ask anyone else to read through the captions (I had been lined up as someone to assist, but never had the chance). 

 

One thing I have not managed to track down is any list of corrections for Robotham's book, which does include many very interesting photos.

I agree completely with what Robert C says here and it is not just restricted to UK publishers - I understand that Owen Russell and David Jackson's work on the 'GC in LNER days' was a similar work where publisher errors arose;

My earlier interests in the USA B&O Railroad saw the Sagle & Stauffer work ' B&O Power' littered with issues that Sagle requested changes for, but which were never instituted, even though he had  written of these  subjects earlier in both the official 'B&O Magazine' and then 'A Picture History of B&O Motive Power' , with access to official B&O records. There was a considerable 'witchhunt', some years after publication, over these alleged Sagle's 'inaccuracies', which also included wrong placement of punctuation!

I know there was some criticism recorded in early issues of the GC journal 'Forward ' over works published by  J C M Healy, but I too have seen nothing to contradict Robotham 's work directly.

 

I should also at this point congratulate Robert on his efforts to publish accurate formation information on Passenger Train consists, which in my eyes take him beyond the status of an accurate modeller to that of a Railway Historian. I am sure that I am not  alone in being grateful for his efforts on behalf of GCs section service  modellers.

Dave

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4 hours ago, Niels said:

 A duchess is 5% heavier and uses roughly 10% more steam and coal for making same number of horses

60532 was an impressive performer during her 1990-2001 stint on the main line; I for one am looking forward to her return. A1, A2, A3, A4 gala and comparison runs a la the 1997 Shap Time Trials, anyone?

 

I'll (hopefully) be taking a main line trip behind a Duchess (6233) this year too - I already  have 60163, 60532, 60103(4472) and 60009 'under my belt', as it were, plus 6201 :)

 

Mark

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Lamp irons.  The importance of lamping up your locomotives has occasionally been mentioned here.  I've always concentrated on goods wagons, but having started building and improving locomotives I realise that etched brass lamp irons are just not going to be up to the job long-term.  For the moment, I am using staples filed to shape and then spiked into place through a guide hole (plastic) and superglued or epoxy them into a larger hole (metal).  They are cheap, easy to make, and look ok, with the excessive thickness not obvious unless you look carefully (which few do).  I'd never noticed them on the locos I commissioned from the friend who passed on this tip. 

 

I'm happy with the result (on my Brassmastered Hornby 8F), or at least I was when I realised I had to sand them down before you try to solder them) but while sitting there yesterday happily filing away to the music of the Red Hot Chilli Pipers I wondered what other people did.

 

Tone

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4 minutes ago, Hollar said:

Lamp irons.  The importance of lamping up your locomotives has occasionally been mentioned here.  I've always concentrated on goods wagons, but having started building and improving locomotives I realise that etched brass lamp irons are just not going to be up to the job long-term.  For the moment, I am using staples filed to shape and then spiked into place through a guide hole (plastic) and superglued or epoxy them into a larger hole (metal).  They are cheap, easy to make, and look ok, with the excessive thickness not obvious unless you look carefully (which few do).  I'd never noticed them on the locos I commissioned from the friend who passed on this tip. 

 

I'm happy with the result (on my Brassmastered Hornby 8F), or at least I was when I realised I had to sand them down before you try to solder them) but while sitting there yesterday happily filing away to the music of the Red Hot Chilli Pipers I wondered what other people did.

 

Tone

Tone, for functional lamp irons I also use staples with the lamps held in place by micro-magnets embedded inside them.

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I use staples as well, usually superglued into holes in the loco / vehicle, which in my case is usually plastic.  I must admit I've never had to solder them; I believe they are soft iron so would some kind of special flux be needed?  I must admit I simplify things in not representing the short horizontal piece that the base of the lamp should sit on - I think this might be difficult as staple wire is thicker than the brass which is usually used for etched items.

 

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