Jump to content
 

Please use M,M&M only for topics that do not fit within other forum areas. All topics posted here await admin team approval to ensure they don't belong elsewhere.

Wright writes.....


Recommended Posts

Sort of on the same track as the current subject, Structure building. 

 

I am making a start on my first little photo diorama and have only just started working with structure building materials, In this case Wills brick sheets. Does anyone have any scratchbuilding advice, or can point me in the direction of some good reading material/threads. 

 

I decided to start small

 

49489658441_7172de4206_b.jpg

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

A good friend of mine purchased a Bridgeport milling machine a while ago. It had been ordered for a school and delivered when a school year ended but over the summer holidays the metalwork teacher left and was never replaced. The machine was in its original packaging and untouched in a storeroom around a decade later.

 

Nowadays, modern life is all about designing something to have it made by a machine for you. We have reached a stage where getting your hands dirty using hand or machine tools is not something many people want to do.

 

We have total reliance on computers and the internet and most aspects of society would fall apart if the internet or the power went off. Mobile phone batteries dead, no working tills or cash dispensers, no way of organising food deliveries, we wouldn't last a week! 

 

I don't have a problem with technology, indeed, I find myself using some as I type this, yet a big part of me just doesn't like the idea of the hobby evolving into one that requires long hours designing things at a computer keyboard to have them sent off to be made by a machine somewhere else.

 

If a loco kit consists of a one part body and three or four bits to be glued on, I would get no pleasure from that whatsoever. My hobby isn't about getting something as easily as possible, it is about testing and developing my workbench skills to the point where if I want something that isn't available as a kit I can make it for myself, using whatever available components might be suitable. If those are 3D printed, laser cut or produced by other advanced technologies, that doesn't matter to me as long as I haven't had to sit at the computer designing them!

 

Given a choice between having a poor kit that needs much work to turn it into a good model or a superbly detailed and completely accurate 3D printed body, give me the kit any time.

 

If the hobby went down a path where all the interesting stuff was done for me by machines, I would rather have another hobby! 

 

 

 

  • Like 8
  • Agree 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here in America, we still have Woodworking classes. My teacher has spent the last few days telling us of all sorts of accidents that have happened, but a lot of people still love the class, myself included.

 

On another note, it may not be a scratch-build, here's a project I've been working on:

20200201-182824.jpg

It has a lot more work to go before I feel it's realistic enough. It'll also need a remotor due to the work I'm doing. My next project, however, probably will be a scratchbuild. Somehow I've already accumulated the necessary components for the chassis as well.

Edited by TrainMan2001
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some fascinating insights into skills/modern methods and so on.......

 

Many thanks for the recent posts. 

 

I have no idea whether metalwork/woodwork skills are still taught at the school in Wolverhampton where I was head of art. I doubt it. I last taught there over a quarter of a century ago! 

 

As well as teaching art, I also taught in the metal and woodworking rooms, under the all-embracing banner of CDT (Craft , Design, Technology), having qualified to teach in such 'dangerous' places after a year-long conversion course at Dudley College in 1983/'84. 

 

It was very useful in my hobby of railway modelling - having access to some very high-quality machine tools. Indeed, with regard to railway modelling, I actually had a group of 6th formers scratch-building small-scale locos in brass as part of their CDT A level course. The examiner thought it was wonderful - 'A 'return' to traditional artisan skills' he said.'The ability to read/interpret drawings'. 

 

There was no link with computer design back then...... 

 

It would appear now that the 'skills' required to 'scratch-build' something are more to do with computer-design than traditional hand skills. That being the case, I'm stuffed! 

 

Perhaps Tony Gee will elaborate, but (if I've got this right) he was once asked to judge a competition for scratch-built locos. Most were built 'traditionally', but one was 3D-printed; the 'scratch-building' being the more-cerebral designing of the programme needed to produce it. I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision......

 

But, to build a layout, and all that goes on it, surely 'traditional' skills will still be needed? Baseboards can be factory-produced as kits, but they still have to be assembled, unless one buys them in ready-made - at a cost! 

 

Can a computer lay track? Wire it up? Make scenery? And so on and so on. As for computers 'controlling' layouts, please take me back to the past - and fast! 

 

I'll say again, I'm all right Jack! I have a good supply of kits, wheels, motors, tools, bits and pieces, raw materials, solders, flux and (at least for now) electricity.  I'll just pull up the drawbridge! 

  • Like 13
  • Agree 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote

As an example, Imagine being able to access demonstrations and guidance like this 30 years ago

 

In those days we had Donald de Carle FBHI (who managed to conveniently skip all the really difficult bits....).

Link to post
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

it is something called WMMP - Wheeled Model Making Phobia - whereby modeller makers who can create excellent layouts, buildings, scenery, etc. are unable to contemplate with the idea of building working locomotives or rolling stock. It seems to becoming increasingly popular common.

I think I suffer from that in reverse. I'm happy to tackle most things wheeled but seem to find any distraction going to avoid doing scenic work. And most people seem to find that the easiest. 

  • Like 3
  • Agree 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
12 minutes ago, Clem said:

I think I suffer from that in reverse. I'm happy to tackle most things wheeled but seem to find any distraction going to avoid doing scenic work. And most people seem to find that the easiest. 

Hi Clem and all

 

Does it matter. I had a very nice comment from Paul regarding my mess. Remember enjoying doing what you like is the most important part of the hobby.

 

  • Like 11
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mark axlecounter said:

Morning Tony 
 

hope you and Mo are ok. 


I have just been given a photo where I came first place in best kit built and best modified RTR Loco (can you recall where it was ) , it is because of the likes of you and fellow contributors on these forums who have inspired me to enhance my skills as a modeller. I’m not claiming to be up on the top ranks but I have got a few young members from our club to start building Loco kits from the kits I have acquired over the years. 
I hope you don’t mind putting this phot of yourself with me holding the trophy but it has inspired me to carry on building Loco kits and to help the younger generation. 
 

regards Mark 

 

This is the latest loco I built a DJH  standard class 2

10450968-36F6-4392-A49D-C903B42A8A1F.jpeg

 

And this is the show at Bristol a few years ago

684A001C-B137-4B5A-9742-8D721465C7FE.jpeg

 

 

I think it must have been Bristol, Mark,

 

Three years ago? 

 

I don't mind your putting a picture with me included in it on here (though others might!), and once again, many congratulations - a worthy winner! 

 

There'll be other judges doing the job at Bristol this year............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it was Bristol, That was 3 years ago time has gone fast. It was the first time I went there not been back since (that's telling me something! ha ), are you there this year though.

The inspection saloon what started it all off ,it was weathered and you made a comment about some one would get there cards for it. Well that has been re painted again due to me spilling solvent on it and stripped a big spot off it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mark axlecounter said:

Yes it was Bristol, That was 3 years ago time has gone fast. It was the first time I went there not been back since (that's telling me something! ha ), are you there this year though.

The inspection saloon what started it all off ,it was weathered and you made a comment about some one would get there cards for it. Well that has been re painted again due to me spilling solvent on it and stripped a big spot off it.

I'm not at Bristol this year, Mark,

 

I must be more careful with my attempts at humour during my after-dinner speeches in future! 

 

Actually, the show is very good and I wish it every success.......

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
to clarify a point
  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
2 hours ago, mark axlecounter said:

Yes it was Bristol, That was 3 years ago time has gone fast. It was the first time I went there not been back since (that's telling me something! ha ), are you there this year though.

The inspection saloon what started it all off ,it was weathered and you made a comment about some one would get there cards for it. Well that has been re painted again due to me spilling solvent on it and stripped a big spot off it.

 

I last went about 30 years ago and remember getting stopped on my bike on the A38 on the way back.

 

I parked right outside as well.

 

Can't remember where I put helmet and gloves.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I have no idea whether metalwork/woodwork skills are still taught at the school in Wolverhampton where I was head of art. I doubt it. I last taught there over a quarter of a century ago! 

 

As well as teaching art, I also taught in the metal and woodworking rooms, under the all-embracing banner of CDT (Craft , Design, Technology), having qualified to teach in such 'dangerous' places after a year-long conversion course at Dudley College in 1983/'84. 

 

 

One of the problems now is finding Teachers who are both skilled in such subjects and also possess Teaching Qualifications.  I'm fortunate enough to attend a Model Engineering evening class at a nearby College; the College was recently seeking another Tutor.

Apparently, and during an interview one applicant was shown a set of Taps (First, Second and Plug) and asked why there were three.  His response:

"It's in case you break one...."

It seems he was unsuccessful.

  • Agree 1
  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm not at Bristol this year, Mark,

 

I must be more careful with my attempts at humour during my after-dinner speeches in future! 

 

Actually, the show is very good and I wish it every success.......

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I complained about the dinner meal at the golf course, I said "its to tough " not been back since :cray_mini:

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
21 hours ago, t-b-g said:

If the hobby went down a path where all the interesting stuff was done for me by machines, I would rather have another hobby!

 

I do agree with this, but not everybody sees this hobby in the same light. I daren't show anybody any of the three etched kits I have started (one wagon, one coach, one locomotive). I have built a few layouts, all for other people and all from models out of boxes. My enjoyment came from designing and building baseboards, planning and executing the incorporation of scenery and planning, wiring and laying track. To help with the track planning and wiring organisation I used a computer as a tool. My view is that evolution is as much a component of modelling as it is a facet of life. The tools that we use, mechanical, electrical or electronic, will help us to achieve our objectives in different ways, according to our perception of enjoyment.

 

Unless they include a cheap Chinese copy of an airbrush. :D

Edited by Mick Bonwick
  • Like 6
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

I do agree with this, but not everybody sees this hobby in the same light. I daren't show anybody any of the three etched kits I have started (one wagon, one coach, one locomotive). I have built a few layouts, all for other people and all from models out of boxes. My enjoyment came from designing and building baseboards, planning and executing the incorporation of scenery and planning, wiring and laying track. To help with the track planning and wiring organisation I used a computer as a tool. My view is that evolution is as much a component of modelling as it is a facet of life. The tools that we use, mechanical, electrical or electronic, will help us to achieve our objectives in different ways, according to our perception of enjoyment.

 

Unless they include a cheap Chinese copy of an airbrush. :D

 

Absolutely Mick. I agree 100%. If we all liked doing things my way, there would be no kits, parts or components for me to buy and use.

 

I just don't want my hobby to be about sitting at a computer screen unless it is to research the prototype, buy stuff online, look at RMWeb or to try to draw the latest layout in Templot.

 

I was only talking about my personal preferences and wouldn't dream of suggesting that anybody else should feel the same way that I do.

 

My only concern is that whatever skills I have may not survive another generation. So many articles in the model press are of the "I drew it in CAD and had it laser cut/3D printed" variety and I see very few "I started with a sheet of metal/plastic and a saw/knife". It doesn't really matter as long as the good people are enjoying themselves but as has been said before, where are the modern day Peter Denny or Frank Dyer characters?

 

I was looking at some older (late 60s early 70s) Railway Modellers a day or two ago. Reviews of new RTR products were a couple of paragraphs long and most articles were either about making models or how to alter RTR items into something else. There was one (or maybe two) layout articles in each one. Nowadays they seem to be full of multiple page articles on how to put a chip and a speaker into a RTR loco or RTR reviews running to several pages. Each issue has maybe 5 or 6 layouts with mostly RTR stuff on them.

 

The quality of the RTR items has improved dramatically and the cost is higher and it is becoming so much harder to alter or improve them, so most people just don't any more.

 

If that is the way people want their hobby to be, then I don't have any issue with them at all. It is just not how I want mine to be.

 

Which is why I have been laying sleepers to start a new layout, which will have all the track made from individual chairs, to proper prototype designs, when I could have bought some of the new EM points from the EMGS and saved myself many hours of time!

 

   

Edited by t-b-g
  • Like 6
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps if Peter Denny and Frank Dyer were starting railway modelling today as youngsters they too would be using CAD and 3D printing, and those that do use these modern day tools will, in 50 years be treated with the same reverence as those 2 modellers.

  • Like 5
  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to see some figures about this. We are told that Railway modelling is more popular than it has ever been .... is that true? It would also be interesting to see the demographics. In the absence of such empirical data we rely on personal and anecdotal impressions.

 

When I was a teenager, my impression was that there was a reasonably sized cohort of youngsters for whom trains sets were toys a certain number of whom aspired to building layouts of a sort. There then appeared be a much smaller and more defined group of serious modellers who spanned the age groups and contributed to the written articles and exhibited at the various shows. ( those aspiring kids who developed into fully fledged modellers?)

 

Now things seem to be very different. There appear to be far fewer youngsters in the hobby and these (beyond the very young) seem to be in the main modellers rather than groups of youths playing trains. (perhaps a reflection of the changing nature and broadening of 'toys' coupled to the reduced profile of the the full scale railway?)

 

Amongst adults it seems to me that the age range from 20 - 45 is relatively small (i.e. those who have continued to model). Nowadays, the main feed into the hobby would appear to be 'returnees'  following on from the establishment of a life style/after kids/returning to roots ... or some other reason. (I wonder, would empirical data show that it has always been thus?) One portion of returnees seems to occur from the 45 - 55 age demographic, and from my observations most appear to be more interested in the fine scale side of things.

 

There would then currently appear to be a glut of people in the hobby following on from retirement - think 65 - 85 age group. This appears to be exponentially more than when I was a teenager and perhaps reflects a state of relative affluence coupled to longevity within this particular cohort which was not the case in the 1970s/80s. Among this large grouping a fairly large proportion are again 'returnees' and amongst these enjoyment of unchanged RTR seems to occupy a prominent position ....and going by the prototypes that RTR manufacturers choose to model, perhaps reflects a desire for nostalgia rather than modelling per se?

 

None of this is based upon research and is just my impression ... but if true we have a glut in the later part of life which will work itself through in due course coupled to a significant drop in numbers from the young, which was already happening for my demographic and has increased moving forward. Forecasters are also projecting a fall in free time and affluence among older people with the retirement age due to rise by 5 - 10 years.

 

My own reading of this state of affairs is that there exists a core of serious modellers within the hobby which has always been there and which it will retain - though it will likely be smaller than in the past because it develops from a smaller initial base. Playing trains as a youth pastime will likely stay much as it currently is unless a craze manifests at some point. The glut of retirees currently 'playing trains' with RTR will contract and with it I suspect the viability of the expanded commercial sector.

 

As I say, it would be interesting to see some empirical data ... but one reading might be that in 20 years we will have a much smaller hobby but perhaps a much more focussed one. Added to this, I wonder if the current trend to rediscover lost skills and methods (across the hobby and craft world) will mean that modern techniques will sit alongside the more craft and engineering based skills ... I hope so.

Edited by Lecorbusier
  • Like 7
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...