RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted February 6, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2020 8 hours ago, t-b-g said: All I am saying Jol is that the skills you use to design kits are not the same as the skills that you use to assemble them. One is designing model kits and one is making model kits. As I sometimes Scratchbuild where do I fit in, as I design and assemble the bits? Knowing how to put the parts together is essential in designing them. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted February 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said: As I sometimes Scratchbuild where do I fit in, as I design and assemble the bits? Knowing how to put the parts together is essential in designing them. Wherever you like Clive. Edited February 7, 2020 by t-b-g 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Once again, many thanks for all the interesting recent observations and comments........ Regarding new technologies, I'm building my first 3D-printed kit; the Isinglass pigeon van. I have to say, the body's gone together wonderfully-well. A perfect fit of parts! I'm not entirely happy with parts of the underframe, however. The 'W'-irons are supplied as a sort of fold-up job in 3D-printed resin. Hmmmm. I folded-up one set, and it snapped! This is not the material for this application in my view, especially as the springs and axleboxes are supposed to be glued together. No matter, I've just substituted etched brass 'W'-irons, with proper bearings. So far, so good. My temporarily fitting the roof has sprung the nearest body joint, but that'll be easily rectified. No buffers, battery boxes, brake cylinder or dynamo were supplied, but these I had in stock. So far, this is just two evenings' work. The future for my kit-building? Unlikely, because it's glued together in the main, but it'll make up into a very nice model. I'll be writing a full report on it for BRM...... This surely proves that different materials are better for different jobs - here we see that W-irons in brass are more appropriate than resin. From memory, MPD and DJH were some of the first to recognise this - etched brass cabs & tender sides being used in preference to whitemetal A nice looking kit though - will we see more of these? Mark 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 14 hours ago, cctransuk said: Is this kit not cast resin, rather than 3D-printed? If so, sanding should not be required. Regards, John Isherwood. You're right John, The main body parts are supplied in what looks to be cast resin, but some other parts would seem to be 3D-printed. No sanding was required for the big bits..... Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 13 hours ago, davidw said: Good evening Tony, The van looks very good. But how deep are the window recess? Thanks David Good morning David, They appear to have a rebate behind, so should be commendably 'flush-glazed' when completed...... Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning David, They appear to have a rebate behind, so should be commendably 'flush-glazed' when completed...... Regards, Tony. Good Morning Tony, Thanks for the reply. Hope you and Mo are well. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 More on the Isinglass Pigeon Van............. It's now complete, apart from painting.......... The buffers were from my 'buffer' tray, in which there are many - mostly unidentified! The brake shoes came from spare Parkside sprues. The vacuum brake hoses came from an even-more-full tray of such bits. Did I enjoy building it? Up to a point! I've come to the conclusion that building kits in resin, whether 3D-printed or cast is not for me. That's not to denigrate the Isinglass kit, which is excellent, but because it's too fragile a medium for my clumsiness. Test-fitting the roof resulted in this calamity! The substance behaved as if it were chocolate, straight from the fridge. Not only that, I hate the stink of the stuff when it's worked. The (very) brief instructions tell us not to inhale the dust, but this is next to impossible when rubbing down the material. Does it present a health hazard? I found out a very long time ago not to inhale when soldering, using phosphoric acid flux, but the resin residue left a nasty taste. Is a face mask needed? Finally, and with reference to soldering - it doesn't work with resin. It just makes an even greater stink! So no more resin for me - it's metal from now on...... Apart from Parkside wagon kits. 5 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 minute ago, davidw said: Good Morning Tony, Thanks for the reply. Hope you and Mo are well. David Very well David, Thank you. I hope you and Ruth are too. We won't see you at Bristol (Thornbury) this year (I've been 'sacked'), so some other time......... Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: The buffers were from my 'buffer' tray, in which there are many - mostly unidentified! This style of turned brass, one-piece buffer dates right back to the early days of 4mm. scale modelling. Keysers supplied them with their cast whitemetal kits, as did most of the other early kit producers. The inception of more detailed, cast whitemetal buffers rendered the simpler brass ones somewhat 'basic', but Cavendish (I think) supplied a range of these brass buffers in the 1970s / 80s. Though I use mainly the cast whitemetal ones nowadays, it cannot be denied that turned brass ones are more robust, and still have occasional use. Regards, John Isherwood. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, cctransuk said: This style of turned brass, one-piece buffer dates right back to the early days of 4mm. scale modelling. Keysers supplied them with their cast whitemetal kits, as did most of the other early kit producers. The inception of more detailed, cast whitemetal buffers rendered the simpler brass ones somewhat 'basic', but Cavendish (I think) supplied a range of these brass buffers in the 1970s / 80s. Though I use mainly the cast whitemetal ones nowadays, it cannot be denied that turned brass ones are more robust, and still have occasional use. Regards, John Isherwood. Dare one suggest that, for much 'layout' stock, these <old style> buffers are a good compromise? After all, once painted, & from a viewing distance of more than a couple of feet, most observers won't notice, will they? Mark 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Headstock Posted February 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2020 Some modelling over the last week or so. A bit of cross kitting produces a 9' wheelbase LNER unfitted van and a 10' wheelbase 6 plank LNER Highfit. The van required the horizontal strapping removing from the door, the rest is a straight swap with a bit of modification and extra detailing. The big LNER Quint D must be one of the larger wagon kits readily available, the wooden body is very distinctive. They were the progenitors of a large family of BR built bogie wagons. More cross kit swapping produced one of the final batch of Quints built for the LNER, with a steel rather than wooden body. More steel wagons, the LNER designed these Bolsters, come plate, come trestle wagons, for themselves and the LMS. A RTR model has recently become available, the cost is more than three time the amount of the venerable Parkside kit! The latter is a quick build and scrubs up rather well, with a bit of titivation from the modeller. Finally, a NER Perishable van, back to a bit of soldering after all that glue sniffing. 21 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: More on the Isinglass Pigeon Van............. It's now complete, apart from painting.......... A question if I may Tony? The leaf springs don't appear to be attached to anything at the ends. Have I missed a discussion about that earlier or is something missing? (basing my limited knowledge of springs on my own MG midget). Graeme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: test-fitting the roof resulted in this calamity! The substance behaved as if it were chocolate, straight from the fridge. Not only that, I hate the stink of the stuff when it's worked. The (very) brief instructions tell us not to inhale the dust, but this is next to impossible when rubbing down the material. Does it present a health hazard Cast resin can be brittle and 3d printed acrylic resin is even more fragile, hence the need to 'fettle to fit' rather that 'force to fit' ;-) I've had 3d printed parts break/shatter when dropped. And yep, my understanding is that breathing in resin dust can be very harmful to health. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted February 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Resin dust can be harmful to health, but then so is working with white metal, solder, glue and most other modelling tools/methods we don't worry too much about (but perhaps should). Sanding resin parts is always best done with Wet'n'dry paper used wet. As well as keeping the dust out of your lungs it helps keep your workspace cleaner. Steven B. Edited February 7, 2020 by Steven B 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: More on the Isinglass Pigeon Van............. It's now complete, apart from painting.......... The buffers were from my 'buffer' tray, in which there are many - mostly unidentified! The brake shoes came from spare Parkside sprues. The vacuum brake hoses came from an even-more-full tray of such bits. Did I enjoy building it? Up to a point! I've come to the conclusion that building kits in resin, whether 3D-printed or cast is not for me. That's not to denigrate the Isinglass kit, which is excellent, but because it's too fragile a medium for my clumsiness. Test-fitting the roof resulted in this calamity! The substance behaved as if it were chocolate, straight from the fridge. Not only that, I hate the stink of the stuff when it's worked. The (very) brief instructions tell us not to inhale the dust, but this is next to impossible when rubbing down the material. Does it present a health hazard? I found out a very long time ago not to inhale when soldering, using phosphoric acid flux, but the resin residue left a nasty taste. Is a face mask needed? Finally, and with reference to soldering - it doesn't work with resin. It just makes an even greater stink! So no more resin for me - it's metal from now on...... Apart from Parkside wagon kits. Good afternoon Tony, No one has yet produced an accurate kit of a BY. I can see a couple of errors that would require attention on this new kit. It's a potentially exciting development, however, alongside the concerns that you mentioned, much greater prototype fidelity is required for what is a relatively expensive item. P.S. With regard to the upright vac pipe stantions, on LNER and many LMS vehicles. The hose was on the centre line above the draw hook. On LNER vans and wagons, the pipe was cranked just below the neck, and ran 'diagonally' down to the headstock and was offset to the right, or left, of the draw hook. The slope of the 'diagonal' pipe, ran from the hose, to the opposite side of the vehicle from which the vac cylinder was mounted to the underframe. Edited February 7, 2020 by Headstock clarify a point 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fitzjames Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: More on the Isinglass Pigeon Van............. It's now complete, apart from painting.......... The buffers were from my 'buffer' tray, in which there are many - mostly unidentified! The brake shoes came from spare Parkside sprues. The vacuum brake hoses came from an even-more-full tray of such bits. Did I enjoy building it? Up to a point! I've come to the conclusion that building kits in resin, whether 3D-printed or cast is not for me. That's not to denigrate the Isinglass kit, which is excellent, but because it's too fragile a medium for my clumsiness. Test-fitting the roof resulted in this calamity! The substance behaved as if it were chocolate, straight from the fridge. Not only that, I hate the stink of the stuff when it's worked. The (very) brief instructions tell us not to inhale the dust, but this is next to impossible when rubbing down the material. Does it present a health hazard? I found out a very long time ago not to inhale when soldering, using phosphoric acid flux, but the resin residue left a nasty taste. Is a face mask needed? Finally, and with reference to soldering - it doesn't work with resin. It just makes an even greater stink! So no more resin for me - it's metal from now on...... Apart from Parkside wagon kits. Tony, you absolutely need(ed) a facemask when cutting or filing resin! 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erichill16 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Dear all, when I sand resin I do it in a bowl of water bringing the work to the surface from time to time to inspect progress. I know from my plastic modelling time sanding of resin has been a big issue. regards robert 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff west Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Tony Wright said: More on the Isinglass Pigeon Van............. It's now complete, apart from painting.......... The buffers were from my 'buffer' tray, in which there are many - mostly unidentified! The brake shoes came from spare Parkside sprues. The vacuum brake hoses came from an even-more-full tray of such bits. Did I enjoy building it? Up to a point! I've come to the conclusion that building kits in resin, whether 3D-printed or cast is not for me. That's not to denigrate the Isinglass kit, which is excellent, but because it's too fragile a medium for my clumsiness. Test-fitting the roof resulted in this calamity! The substance behaved as if it were chocolate, straight from the fridge. Not only that, I hate the stink of the stuff when it's worked. The (very) brief instructions tell us not to inhale the dust, but this is next to impossible when rubbing down the material. Does it present a health hazard? I found out a very long time ago not to inhale when soldering, using phosphoric acid flux, but the resin residue left a nasty taste. Is a face mask needed? Finally, and with reference to soldering - it doesn't work with resin. It just makes an even greater stink! So no more resin for me - it's metal from now on...... Apart from Parkside wagon kits. I can hear the language from here. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post t-b-g Posted February 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2020 It isn't only Little Bytham that pays host to visiting guest locos and this evening I have had the great pleasure of seeing a few of the locomotives that a visitor brought along. He doesn''t have a layout yet, so it was a good opportunity to give them a bit of a run. They all ran superbly although the 2-2-4T wasn't too keen on some of the sharper curves that Buckingham is blessed with. Mostly scratchbuilt, with the exception of the J77 (Dave Alexander kit), it was lovely to see such well made models of really unusual prototypes. Not one but two H&BR types represented! I dug my old J77 no 1433 out so we could photograph the pair together. Hopefully the builder can be persuaded to tell us a bit more about them. There is something rather satisfying about being able to share such nice models that have been constructed almost "under the radar" with a wider audience. I wonder how many others there are, sitting at their workbenches producing models like these that never get seen in public? 23 1 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 On 06/02/2020 at 12:27, PupCam said: And quite rightly so IMHO Jol. In abstract terms I think the the tools, methods and materials used in building a model are, to a large extent, irrelevant. Is a Plasticard model of an object superior to one made of wood or metal? Not necessarily, I would venture to suggest it depends on the "quality" of the results and that's often highly subjective. Would a model made only with the use of a scalpel be superior to one where saw, files, drills or whatever? Of course not, in fact it's more than likely it would be inferior and the adoption of "modern technology" tools is merely an extension of that. I'm old enough to remember the George Allen kit for the exquisite lattice footbridge when it first came out in the early 70's(?) using the relatively new fangled process of chemical milling (yes it was an etched brass job). Unless you made a completely ham-fisted job of assembling it you ended up with a beautiful model, the finesse of which you'd be very hard pressed to equal by other means. I don't think that because you hadn't made it from individual strips of plastic made you any less of a bridge modeller. It really needed the now common skill in the world of railway modelling of the ability to solder properly although the rep that sold the kits to my father (he owned a model shop) was also peddling the new Cyanoacrylate adhesives. Why you'd even think of super-glueing the whole thing together escapes me but then, I can solder! Let's not get too hung up on what or how something is achieved and concentrate on the beauty and quality of the results just as long as the extent of the model making isn't limited to opening some boxes or, maybe, paying someone else to do it for you! Alan "quality" of the results is the ultimate goal of most modellers as far as I am aware. Some have "unrealistic expectations or standards" falling into that category myself sadly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 8 hours ago, geoff west said: I can hear the language from here. So can I and I’m how many miles away? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2020 Jesse.. and me too...even further away and with "umpires hearing" Baz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted February 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2020 Tony Most types of dust can be injerious if inhaled. Many years ago some resins also had certain types of toxins included. Some are soapy, others are very brittle so horses for courses in the use of this sort of material. At the same time no one knows how stable some of these mixes are. I have some QKits diesels which are showing minor warping. I also have some 016.5 narrow gauge bogie freight vans. These are about 30 years old and are starting to warp. If the sides are not straight can you gently "boil" the parts to get them straight? Baz 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2020 45 minutes ago, Barry O said: Jesse.. and me too...even further away and with "umpires hearing" Baz Yer what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollar Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, St Enodoc said: Yer what? I once heard the great rugby referee Nigel Owens say to a player I didn't hear that, but if I hear anything like it again your afternoon will be over, is that clear? A great inspiration to me when I was umpiring county league cricket, where emotions would occasionally run high (in that controlled English manner, of course). On the other hand, racist or strong personal abuse, I could hear clearly from miles away. Tone Edited February 8, 2020 by Hollar garbled syntax 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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