Jump to content
 

Please use M,M&M only for topics that do not fit within other forum areas. All topics posted here await admin team approval to ensure they don't belong elsewhere.

Wright writes.....


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, micklner said:

    Some of the last few posts make me realise why there is so much abuse and mickey taking aimed at so called self proclaimed titled "Railway Modellers" by the general public. The attitude shown is so over the top it is embarrising to read . If people want to run anything on a layout , that is their choice no one elses , does it hurt anybody and does it really matter ?? No it simply  does'nt !!.Its playing trains at the end of the day, nothing more or less . Everybody has standards in model railways as in anything else in life.

 

    What is seriously wrong with a young lad asking to run his pride and joy of a Model railway layout ?? why or what is funny?? . The attitude and the smirks probably sent him away ,never bothering to ever go to another exhibition again. We should be encouraging youngsters not taking the mickey out of them .

 

    Some people seriously to look at themselves and their attitudes.

Mick,

 

I think it's important that youngsters (and others) are encouraged in their railway modelling, and that mickey-taking only works if it's mutual. 

 

You say it's embarrassing for you to read some recent posts (possibly some of mine?) and it doesn't matter what anyone runs on their layout. With regard to the latter point, I'm in complete agreement, but I think there is a much greater responsibility at shows to get things 'right'. Not in the 'hair-shirt' sense, where nothing ever gets finished because of the zeal for absolute accuracy, but on two levels in my opinion.

 

Firstly, we should display what's been made/modified, not just something bought. Tony Gee took issue with my criticism (he has every right to) of a scene where a straight-out-of-the-box loco was literally plonked on a very nicely-modelled (my emphasis) railway. It was entirely incongruous in my view - tantamount to having beautifully made and accurate locos/stock running on perfect track, through realistic scenery, where someone has just plonked down an inappropriate, and unaltered RTP building. 

 

Secondly, the whole scene should be believable, inasmuch as it's accurate to period and place. 

 

Nobody has the right to dictate what anyone does with regard to their model railway in the privacy of their own home (I don't believe anyone has suggested that, by the way). However, if an individual or club has their 'work' on display at a show (where folk have spent money in order to see it), then I believe there is a much greater responsibility with regard to 'modelling' and accuracy. It really doesn't matter whether folk know if something has been actually made or is accurate or not (they'll enjoy it, anyway), but to those 'in the know' so to speak, it'll give great satisfaction if things are made and are correct, and, surely, it's also about education.

 

Finally, I wonder just where this thread would go if all posters took the attitude that "It really doesn't matter whether I make anything (I'll just buy it or get others to do my modelling for me), I won't care whether anything I make is accurate or not and I won't be 'critical' (however constructively) of any model I see in case some are embarrassed". 

 

I've found out far more about my own modelling limitations because of critical observation/comment than any sycophancy or anyone not wanting to 'offend'. With that in mind, I learned what a 'snowflake' was the other day. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Surely any decent photographer would have sorted out the signals and points before pressing the shutter! Portraying correct operation is just as important as correct locos.

 

 

I would think it's the responsibility of the layout owner/operator to ensure these things are correct just as much as the photographer. If the layout owner wants their layout to be portrayed in a favorable light then they should be just as much on the ball as the person taking the photos.

 

Having had Tony taking photographs of one of my own layouts I can certainly say that he is very professional in the way that he captures his images. Yes, he questions what he sees before him but this is always given in a constructive manner. He also makes it quite clear how the images will be used.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I am sure that if people had any idea that the photos you take are going to be used on a public forum to draw attention to what they have done wrong, they may not be quite so keen on you taking them.

 

Criticism that has been requested is one thing, belittling the work of others by calling it "unacceptable" is another.

 

I see much that is wrong either on individual models or on layouts. I will sometimes offer comment in a private way, not drawing the attention of others to the fault, or if I am asked to comment, I will mention things.

 

In your photo above, I can see a couple of things that I would regard as worse than running a RTR loco.

 

Surely any decent photographer would have sorted out the signals and points before pressing the shutter! Portraying correct operation is just as important as correct locos.

 

We all get things wrong sometimes and having our mistakes pointed out to us is bad enough. To have them described as "unacceptable" is a step too far for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bravo Tony,

 

'Surely any decent photographer would have sorted out the signals and points before pressing the shutter! Portraying correct operation is just as important as correct locos.'

 

Exactly the constructive criticism I seek. 

 

The picture which first sparked off this debate will not be used, by the way. The reason (in consultation with others) is because it doesn't show the layout in the 'best light'. It is, therefore, unacceptable.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited by Tony Wright
typo error
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
10 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

 

I would think it's the responsibility of the layout owner/operator to ensure these things are correct just as much as the photographer. If the layout owner wants their layout to be portrayed in a favorable light then they should be just as much on the ball as the person taking the photos.

 

Having had Tony taking photographs of one of my own layouts I can certainly say that he is very professional in the way that he captures his images. Yes, he questions what he sees before him but this is always given in a constructive manner. He also makes it quite clear how the images will be used.

 

Tony W has photographed some of my layouts too and produced some lovely photos. That is why I am surprised that he didn't notice the positioning of the trains, signals and points. He usually has a really good eye for spotting such things and making a scene look as realistic as possible by putting them right. I would hope that we know each other well enough to have a degree of mutual respect, even if we don't always agree on everything.

 

I am very much in favour of firstly models that have been made rather than bought and secondly of making every effort to produce a scene that, even if it is of a fictitious place, doesn't include any glaring faults that would never have happened on the real thing.

 

I just don't like the use of the term "unacceptable". I had a boss who used it often at work in the days when I had a real job. If you really think about it, the word is almost meaningless in the context of a layout. Something is either right or it isn't. A layout either has faults or it doesn't. As we all have different things that we will accept or not, there is no measure of what is acceptable.    

Edited by t-b-g
  • Like 3
  • Agree 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Tony W has photographed some of my layouts too and produced some lovely photos. That is why I am surprised that he didn't notice the positioning of the trains, signals and points. He usually has a really good eye for spotting such things and making a scene look as realistic as possible by putting them right. I would hope that we know each other well enough to have a degree of mutual respect, even if we don't always agree on everything. 

Thanks Tony,

 

Do I have any excuses? Probably, but they're tenuous......

 

I was rushed for time (the pictures were taken at a show), I was getting tired and the signals didn't work. That said, I should have shoved that 'Arthur' back!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

Do I have any excuses? Probably, but they're tenuous......

 

I was rushed for time (the pictures were taken at a show), I was getting tired and the signals didn't work. That said, I should have shoved that 'Arthur' back!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

it's rather a shame about the controversial Atlantic image. The layouts scenic modelling is stunning and the photograph itself is a rather a lovely composition. Two bits of creativity are worth celebrating I think.

  • Agree 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Mick,

 

I think it's important that youngsters (and others) are encouraged in their railway modelling, and that mickey-taking only works if it's mutual. 

 

You say it's embarrassing for you to read some recent posts (possibly some of mine?) and it doesn't matter what anyone runs on their layout. With regard to the latter point, I'm in complete agreement, but I think there is a much greater responsibility at shows to get things 'right'. Not in the 'hair-shirt' sense, where nothing ever gets finished because of the zeal for absolute accuracy, but on two levels in my opinion.

 

Firstly, we should display what's been made/modified, not just something bought. Tony Gee took issue with my criticism (he has every right to) of a scene where a straight-out-of-the-box loco was literally plonked on a very nicely-modelled (my emphasis) railway. It was entirely incongruous in my view - tantamount to having beautifully made and accurate locos/stock running on perfect track, through realistic scenery, where someone has just plonked down an inappropriate, and unaltered RTP building. 

 

Secondly, the whole scene should be believable, inasmuch as it's accurate to period and place. 

 

Nobody has the right to dictate what anyone does with regard to their model railway in the privacy of their own home (I don't believe anyone has suggested that, by the way). However, if an individual or club has their 'work' on display at a show (where folk have spent money in order to see it), then I believe there is a much greater responsibility with regard to 'modelling' and accuracy. It really doesn't matter whether folk know if something has been actually made or is accurate or not (they'll enjoy it, anyway), but to those 'in the know' so to speak, it'll give great satisfaction if things are made and are correct, and, surely, it's also about education.

 

Finally, I wonder just where this thread would go if all posters took the attitude that "It really doesn't matter whether I make anything (I'll just buy it or get others to do my modelling for me), I won't care whether anything I make is accurate or not and I won't be 'critical' (however constructively) of any model I see in case some are embarrassed". 

 

I've found out far more about my own modelling limitations because of critical observation/comment than any sycophancy or anyone not wanting to 'offend'. With that in mind, I learned what a 'snowflake' was the other day. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony

  It wasnt aimed at you in particular , but when you read some of the comments made earlier I had to make a serious reply .

 

 

 In my opinion Model Railways is a kind of Holy Grail to some people , who in some cases also  like to give the impression only they know, what they are doing etc etc, its all been said on here and elsewhere time and time again. As to some of the said self appointed experts/keyboard warriors , I have never seen one photo of what they have ever made. Where everything shown no matter by whom it , is criticised ad nauseum, no matter how trivial the fault, why do people need to do that ? it achieves very little 99% of the time.

 

Model railways are supposed to be a hobby, the same as any other ,where people are simply supposed to enjoy making things or whatever they do relating to their chosen hobby. It isnt about the attitude ,I need to be the winning, I am clever than you in the points contest created by some, and why not add on some sarcastic comments to give them even more  pathetic added pleasure at the same time.

 

    I have always thought that any exhibtion is supposed to be fun , why does everything have to be how a real railway is/was run ? where is that rule written down ? how may people actually go so deep into the subject to have this extreme concern ?. I have no idea how many and I dont need to know either, and I am sure the punter with his kids having a day out are blissfully unaware of such intracies or bothered/ expect them to be present , I know I dont. If something runs well and looks good, thats enough for me perhaps I am too "normal" in my attitude?

     I agree re kits being made, I have been doing them for far too many years, on all kinds of subjects. That does'nt stop me buying r.t.r if i want it  , and being grateful for the time saved and in some cases  they are far better items  than I could ever manage to produce  , with some of the prehestoric kits still being sold at inflated prices.

 

As I have said before on here each to their own and enjoy, lifes too short .

 

 

Mick

  • Like 6
  • Agree 9
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

it's rather a shame about the controversial Atlantic image. The layouts scenic modelling is stunning and the photograph itself is a rather a lovely composition. Two bits of creativity are worth celebrating I think.

Agreed and a beautifully made Loco as well, I ignore tension locks !! . Well done to Bachmann in this case.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, zr2498 said:

I have brushed it on coach sides and as John suggests it gives another step in the weathering process.  I also airbrush it on when there has to be a very even or thin coat.

No problem to air brush - usually 2 or 3 very fine mists. Cleaning of the airbrush - use Windolene which works a treat. 

Dave

Must admit, was wondering ‘floor polish through my airbrush?. How am I going to clean it?’ Now I know.

regards Robert

Link to post
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, micklner said:

Agreed and a beautifully made Loco as well, I ignore tension locks !! . Well done to Bachmann in this case.

 

Evening Mick,

 

it is a beautifully looking locomotive. However, I would like to see much more of the creativity of the individuals who participants in the hobby displayed on this thread. There are many threads already on RM web that celebrate the beauty of such models.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

But it was advertised as a recreation of the ECML in the 1930s using the actual timetables. It wasn't at a general show for the public and I doubt many attendees weren't enthusiasts.

 

BTW he was a lad in his forties, not a child and didn't seem to have any "issues", he was standing drinking pints at the bar. We call everyone lad around here.

 

 

 

Jason


Even so, how did/could you know whether or not the chap had some form of learning difficulties?  Certainly there’s been a time or two on rmweb where I’ve read a comment from a poster that I’ve thought was monumentally inept, poorly written, terrible grammar, atrocious spelling etc but something has made me pause and think to check some of that poster’s other comments.  Often I’ve realised that the person may well have some sort of learning impairment and I’ve bitten my tongue.

 

David

  • Like 2
  • Agree 5
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Clem said:

I finished (construction of) the LMS hopper. I'm afraid it's a bit of a pig's ear of a job, but it is got me back into doing some modelling and it will just about pass muster in a rake of hoppers or 'a layout wagon' as you would say, Tony. I wish they made 3.5mm plastic channeling to use for the sole bars. I've had to use 1/8", take off the bottom protrusion and add a new one out of 5 thou plasticard and to be honest it hasn't turned out that well. Also I find flexibility of evergreen channel not helpful in getting true square and rigid under frames. These wagons have open frames and the next one I do, I'll in plan a bit more subtle support to keep it more true. Building these wagons is very labour intensive, particularly getting all the strapping and riveting in place. I could make 10 from kits in the time it takes to scratch build one of these, but nobody does them (subtle hint to any kit designer out there :-)  ). I'll get it painted, along with the Charles Roberts conversion later this week. 

 

One thing making life a little more difficult is an unsteadiness in my left hand (particularly my index finger) which is starting to hamper fine detail work and has become more substantial in the last year. I'm trying to find a way of controlling it better. My right hand seems as steady as always.

 

Andrew, thanks for the information about the way the photo of Leicester South Goods and O1 was lit. I think sometimes a photo can capture that little something extra and I thought that picture had it.  I had already noticed the significance of the directional lighting and it was one of the things which made a difference. I may be looking at a new camera sometime later on this year so I can take better photos. I'll need one that I can close the aperture right down to increase depth of field. I'll have to do a fair amount of research to see what's available unless anyone has any recommendations. I also have to look into stacking as I have never tried that. 

 

Tony, great photos as usual and plenty of interesting observations and conversations. 

 

IMG_4387.JPG.71f03e7c85539f0f3d908e762917ecb5.JPG

 

 

We need to replicate it somehow, with some sort of replicator.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
  • Funny 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

If they can't then they may be in danger of taking it too seriously.

 

Unacceptably seriously, you might say.

 

We are, after all, just talking about playing with train sets in the big scheme of things. 

 

Life throws up many of us a lot more concerns worth getting flustered over than that.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

  • Agree 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

Do I have any excuses? Probably, but they're tenuous......

 

I was rushed for time (the pictures were taken at a show), I was getting tired and the signals didn't work. That said, I should have shoved that 'Arthur' back!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,  loco ahead of signal?  Sort of unofficially allowed on the Southern.

Bill

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Clem said:

IMG_4387.JPG.71f03e7c85539f0f3d908e762917ecb5.JPG

 

 

What a smashing model of a characterful prototype, well done sir!  I actually like its slight wonkiness (forgive me, it's really not all that wonky!) it adds to the character, and avoids that weird fake look that overly precise plastic replicas have.

Edited by Dr Gerbil-Fritters
  • Like 3
  • Agree 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 08/03/2020 at 23:08, Tom F said:


Thanks for the kind comments. The Klear was brushed on with a flat brush.

I find Klear can be temperamental in it's behaviour on RTR surfaces, so I'm tending to use T-Cut more as can be seen on this model I weathered for a client.

DSC05917.jpeg.7ab1ae4d4bb38c7996c35b5566b3cae7.jpeg

I don't get on here as much as I should, great to see you are busy Tony!

Very nice piece of work indeed  Do you apply the TCut with cotton buds or with scrubby brushes?  If brushes - how do you clean them or do you use sweetshop ones and treat them as disposable?  I've used TCut to produce a worn-looking finish on coaching stock but have always avoided locos until now for fear of serious accidents.

 

Tone

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I actually like its slight wonkiness (forgive me, it's really not all that wonky!) it adds to the character, and avoids that weird fake look that overly precise plastic replicas have.

Wonkiness I can do well! :-)

  • Friendly/supportive 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Clem said:

I finished (construction of) the LMS hopper. I'm afraid it's a bit of a pig's ear of a job, but it is got me back into doing some modelling and it will just about pass muster in a rake of hoppers or 'a layout wagon' as you would say, Tony. I wish they made 3.5mm plastic channeling to use for the sole bars. I've had to use 1/8", take off the bottom protrusion and add a new one out of 5 thou plasticard and to be honest it hasn't turned out that well. Also I find flexibility of evergreen channel not helpful in getting true square and rigid under frames. These wagons have open frames and the next one I do, I'll in plan a bit more subtle support to keep it more true. Building these wagons is very labour intensive, particularly getting all the strapping and riveting in place. I could make 10 from kits in the time it takes to scratch build one of these, but nobody does them (subtle hint to any kit designer out there :-)  ). I'll get it painted, along with the Charles Roberts conversion later this week. 

 

One thing making life a little more difficult is an unsteadiness in my left hand (particularly my index finger) which is starting to hamper fine detail work and has become more substantial in the last year. I'm trying to find a way of controlling it better. My right hand seems as steady as always.

 

Andrew, thanks for the information about the way the photo of Leicester South Goods and O1 was lit. I think sometimes a photo can capture that little something extra and I thought that picture had it.  I had already noticed the significance of the directional lighting and it was one of the things which made a difference. I may be looking at a new camera sometime later on this year so I can take better photos. I'll need one that I can close the aperture right down to increase depth of field. I'll have to do a fair amount of research to see what's available unless anyone has any recommendations. I also have to look into stacking as I have never tried that. 

 

Tony, great photos as usual and plenty of interesting observations and conversations. 

 

IMG_4387.JPG.71f03e7c85539f0f3d908e762917ecb5.JPG

 

 

Of course Clem, you have made it in such a way that you can take it apart into convenient modules that will serve as patterns for mould-making and subsequent casting of copies in resin, haven't you.....

 

Only kidding.

  • Like 2
  • Funny 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
3 hours ago, jukebox said:

 

Unacceptably seriously, you might say.

 

We are, after all, just talking about playing with train sets in the big scheme of things. 

 

Life throws up many of us a lot more concerns worth getting flustered over than that.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

That's all true, but I do feel that the terms of reference are different when we are exhibiting to the public, who've paid to come and see what we are showing.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
15 hours ago, Headstock said:

it's rather a shame about the controversial Atlantic image. The layouts scenic modelling is stunning and the photograph itself is a rather a lovely composition. Two bits of creativity are worth celebrating I think.

I agree; had I been at that exhibition I would have mentally noted that the condition of the Atlantic and when it was out of view, stayed to take in the rest of the exquisite modelling.  Similarly, the one time I had the privilege (yes, I do mean that) of seeing "Chee Tor", there were one or two locos or items of stock whose RTR origins were still obvious.  I let it pass because it is still the greatest example of railway modelling I have ever seen.

  • Like 5
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...