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My slight reservation on testing for others are down to things like controller and system compatibilities, especially if the punter isn’t sure what’s inside the loco in question. ;)

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I'd suggest that it might be an idea for exhibition organisers to include a basic test track layout on which newly acquired locos or one's punters have brought along with them can be run.  This would possibly increase the sales for trade stands, and would be a layout on which anyone could 'have a go', maybe in consideration of a small donation to an appropriate charity in the same way Tony fettles locos.  There must be many people who own locos and stock but have no layout to run them on who would appreciate this.  Maybe basic loco fettling facilities could be provide in conjunction with this.

 

My local model emporium has a small test track and a DCC display layout on which locos can be test run.

Edited by The Johnster
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25 minutes ago, PMP said:

My slight reservation on testing for others are down to things like controller and system compatibilities, especially if the punter isn’t sure what’s inside the loco in question. ;)

 

Yep, and even wheel/track/b-t-b standards.

 

Plus many old secondhand locos, especially in N/2mm, can have huge flanges that won't run properly on modern finer code rails. And I found that many steam locos, with cylinders and rods hanging on the outside and wheels, are too wide to pass through some model modern stations with the possibility of damage to the loco or platform.

 

 

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2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that "members can exercise their rights" to their hearts' content on club nights in the clubrooms but when at exhibitions they forfeit any such "rights". The only exception, de facto rather than de jure, seems to be in the final hour of a show.

Quite agree, John,

 

During the last hour at shows, all sorts used to run as guests on Stoke Summit and Charwelton - and they were really interesting. 

 

However, for the rest of the time it was 'business as usual'. Though there were quite a few RTR items running (particularly Bachmann Mk.1s), nothing was allowed to run straight-from-the-box (except during that last hour). If punters have paid money to come to an exhibition, they want to see what folk have made/modified, not just what they've bought. That's my experience, anyway, hence my 'unacceptable' quote - 'wholly', even. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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I remember at Barrow Hill when they had the A4s there before they went back, they had a layout in the shed. Grantham I think it was and they were running a proper timetable. This lad came up and asked whether they could run his "new" loco. It was a Bachmann Class 37 in some modern livery such as EWS.

 

I nearly spat out half my pint trying to stifle a laugh. it was located right next to the bar.

 

 

 

Jason

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Issue there is trying to not upset the young lad given that he really should be encouraged. He could have little to no idea of the fact his diesel is out of period for the layout. All depends on his age and how mature he is.

 

Of course it's completely right to educate him. But the problem is doing it in a tactful manor that leaves him happy.

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5 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

I remember at Barrow Hill when they had the A4s there before they went back, they had a layout in the shed. Grantham I think it was and they were running a proper timetable. This lad came up and asked whether they could run his "new" loco. It was a Bachmann Class 37 in some modern livery such as EWS.

 

I nearly spat out half my pint trying to stifle a laugh. it was located right next to the bar.

 

 

 

Jason

    Some of the last few posts make me realise why there is so much abuse and mickey taking aimed at so called self proclaimed titled "Railway Modellers" by the general public. The attitude shown is so over the top it is embarrising to read . If people want to run anything on a layout , that is their choice no one elses , does it hurt anybody and does it really matter ?? No it simply  does'nt !!.Its playing trains at the end of the day, nothing more or less . Everybody has standards in model railways as in anything else in life.

 

    What is seriously wrong with a young lad asking to run his pride and joy of a Model railway layout ?? why or what is funny?? . The attitude and the smirks probably sent him away ,never bothering to ever go to another exhibition again. We should be encouraging youngsters not taking the mickey out of them .

 

    Some people seriously to look at themselves and their attitudes.

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2 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Always King class kettles? But I'm sure you find a way, you usually do. ;-)

 

FWIW I had the same often happen to me on my layout when exhibiting it. If it didn't fit the era or traction genre I 'test' ran it in the hidden fiddle yard and then handed it back with a "seems fine to me, but best double check on your own layout".

 

 

As bad is when you have invited a mate to help operate and he brings his locos to have a run. Normally they are wrong period, wrong region, haven't run for years (never been serviced) and back to backs are not compatible.

 

On coming back from a break there he is with the  hand of Odin helping this poor wretched thing negotiate a double slip. As soon as you return he gets out his camera to photo his prize RTR thing on your layout. You drive it off as soon as possible. What returns when he is driving or in charge of the fiddle yard?

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17 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Could this sort of thing differentiate 'modellers' from those who just operate trains? 

 

 

 

I have noticed, while exhibiting layouts at exhibitions, that many self-differentiate through the type of questions they ask.

 

'Modellers' tend to want to know how an effect was undertaken, how you made something, what techniques were used and so on. While 'purchasers' ask where they can get something you have on the layout, who makes it and where can it be bought.

 

The problem is that quite often what 'purchasers' ask about is not RTR but scratch-built or heavily bashed. For example many have asked where this N/2mm modern dust cart can be obtained but it is something I have made. The snag is that it's not a particularly good model and is quite old. The cab is a cut-down Jet-flame Scania fire engine and the body and chassis is scratch-built. And when you start to explain how to undertake the conversion and making the various bits they walk away.

 

DSC_9153.JPG.219de275fdb7717784b61da7d33e1510.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, micklner said:

    Some of the last few posts make me realise why there is so much abuse and mickey taking aimed at so called self proclaimed titled "Railway Modellers" by the general public. The attitude shown is so over the top it is embarrising to read . If people want to run anything on a layout , that is their choice no one elses , does it hurt anybody and does it really matter ?? No it simply  does'nt !!.Its playing trains at the end of the day, nothing more or less . Everybody has standards in model railways as in anything else in life.

 

    What is seriously wrong with a young lad asking to run his pride and joy of a Model railway layout ?? why or what is funny?? . The attitude and the smirks probably sent him away ,never bothering to ever go to another exhibition again. We should be encouraging youngsters not taking the mickey out of them .

 

    Some people seriously to look at themselves and their attitudes.

 

But it was advertised as a recreation of the ECML in the 1930s using the actual timetables. It wasn't at a general show for the public and I doubt many attendees weren't enthusiasts.

 

BTW he was a lad in his forties, not a child and didn't seem to have any "issues", he was standing drinking pints at the bar. We call everyone lad around here.

 

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, micklner said:

    Some of the last few posts make me realise why there is so much abuse and mickey taking aimed at so called self proclaimed titled "Railway Modellers" by the general public. The attitude shown is so over the top it is embarrising to read . If people want to run anything on a layout , that is their choice no one elses , does it hurt anybody and does it really matter ?? No it simply  does'nt !!.Its playing trains at the end of the day, nothing more or less . Everybody has standards in model railways as in anything else in life.

 

    What is seriously wrong with a young lad asking to run his pride and joy of a Model railway layout ?? why or what is funny?? . The attitude and the smirks probably sent him away ,never bothering to ever go to another exhibition again. We should be encouraging youngsters not taking the mickey out of them .

 

    Some people seriously to look at themselves and their attitudes.

 

The General public love railway modellers when they make things in a skilful manner, they think that it is awesome. It's the obsessive collecting of trivia or objects and playing with toys that are the bits they laugh at. The former is a passport that excuses the latter.

Edited by Headstock
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53 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

 

BTW he was a lad in his forties, not a child and didn't seem to have any "issues", he was standing drinking pints at the bar. We call everyone lad around here.

 

 

 

Jason

 

Lad tends to mean child everywhere else though.

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Test running somebody's new purchase on an exhibition layout is an opportunity, if it is handled properly.  A bit of jovial banter behind the back scene, deliberately loud enough to be heard by all within earshot, can do wonders to both communicate the level of accuracy of the model in question, whilst showing a sense of humour and grace in accommodating the paying member of the public.  It can be a real conversation starter with those observing the layout at the time.

 

Like many things, its not what you do, but the way that you do it...

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13 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Lad tends to mean child everywhere else though.

I disagree "lad" is used in many parts instead of boy or man.

 

Where I grew up "little ol' boy" was used to describe a male aged between toddler to coffin dodger. 

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3 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I disagree "lad" is used in many parts instead of boy or man.

 

Where I grew up "little ol' boy" was used to describe a male aged between toddler to coffin dodger. 

 

I guess the use of 'lad' varies around the country.

 

Round here 'lad' generally means young male. Older youths get called lads when they behave childishly. Old men and pensioners aren't usually called 'lads' but are often referred to as 'old boys'.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

it was located right next to the bar.

Ah so the Grantham operators were sitting with their feet up downing pints rather than running the layout, I presume.:jester:

 

Someone mentioned the idea of having a test track at shows and it reminded me of such an idea I saw at Ally Pally and Warley. I think it was owned by The MRC and it had multiple gauges (not just OO, N and O but finer ones like EM). You could ask to have your new purchase tested there for free.

 

Jamie

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8 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Brushed on is fine - in fact, better than sprayed. That way, you get the first elements of weathering, even if it is just a subtle hint of streaking and variable finish.

 

Works for me, anyway.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I have brushed it on coach sides and as John suggests it gives another step in the weathering process.  I also airbrush it on when there has to be a very even or thin coat.

No problem to air brush - usually 2 or 3 very fine mists. Cleaning of the airbrush - use Windolene which works a treat. 

Dave

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Tell me that someone is a 'lad' and I think of a primary/early secondary school boy. Hence my reaction to the post by Steamport Southport, apologies for any misunderstanding. 

 

I have heard people being called "little old boy" too. Although the 'old' makes it clear that the term is referring to someone past retirement age.

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6 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

 

Morning Tony,

 

when I was running a Hornby O1, I also titivated the little beast. A new identity was devised, wiggle pipes and injectors were added and the front truck was modified. I also replaced the smoke box door, as that provided on the Hornby model is the less common type, being suitable for a more limited number of the class. What has been said about RTR  providing variants can be somewhat sketchy across a range, variants being more usually available on the most prestigious types.

 

I was very impressed by the Hornby O1 from a mechanical point of view, I don't hold many of the manufactures products in such high esteem. Unfortunately, it tended to leak oil all over the place no matter how many times you cleaned it. This rather spoilt the paint job and was constantly having to be touched up. It has now been replaced by an 04/8 and has been cascaded to back up engine status.

GM runner 01 63579.jpg

Hi Andrew. What an atmospheric shot! It just shouts 1948-50 . Great photo.  What lighting do you use to get that daylight look? 

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20 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

SNIP

 

Which was a bought at a show, its box opened and its proud owner plonked it on the layout (it ran for over a day). In my opinion, this is wholly unacceptable, especially as no attempt was made to remove the awful coupling and fit the extra detail bits. 

 

Could this sort of thing differentiate 'modellers' from those who just operate trains? 

 

I wonder? 

 

 

My preference of a "real" model railway is a thoughtfully and skillfully created record of a past that no longer exists.  Historically accurate in a general sense, even if not of a real or uncompressed location, and museum like in that it educates about that time and way of life.

 

In attempting to build such as that in the privacy of one's  home, often running some RTR plus a lot of imagination,  frequently substitutes for models not yet made or finished.  But it is too much of a stretch to assume that everyone else will see the the substitutes as satisfactory in an exhibition environment.  Paying to see something that is little different from the same commercial offerings in a public shop window, strikes me as distinctly taking advantage.

 

Andy

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52 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

Tell me that someone is a 'lad' and I think of a primary/early secondary school boy. Hence my reaction to the post by Steamport Southport, apologies for any misunderstanding. 

 

I have heard people being called "little old boy" too. Although the 'old' makes it clear that the term is referring to someone past retirement age.

I once had a discussion about this sort of thing with a Texan gentleman in my local pub.  He kept calling me ‘sir’, which was a level of formality I was not fully comfortable with.  When I mentioned this, he claimed that ‘where I come from, everyone is sir.  Why, if you ain’t sir, then you ain’t nuttin’ but a boy! 

 

Fair ‘nuff. 

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13 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 He kept calling me ‘sir’, which was a level of formality I was not fully comfortable with.  When I mentioned this, he claimed that ‘where I come from, everyone is sir.  Why, if you ain’t sir, then you ain’t nuttin’ but a boy! 

 

 

Are you sure he wasn't saying cur rather than sir?

;-)

 

 

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Pretty sure.  I developed the art of saying sir but meaning cur talking to schoolmasters when I were a lad...

 

My old headmaster told me I’d never get anywhere with that attitude.  He was quite right; I never did. 

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46 minutes ago, Clem said:

Hi Andrew. What an atmospheric shot! It just shouts 1948-50 . Great photo.  What lighting do you use to get that daylight look? 

 

Evening Clem,

 

I should have credited the photo to Derek Shore. I forgot, due to having used the image previously. That said, I was art directing. I don't like the magazine style of lighting on model railway scenes. I like directional lighting. In this case the sun would be high in the western sky. At this time, the runner would have pulled into south loop to take water and allow the Newcastle York Bournemouth express to overtake it. Derek's lighting style at the time was perfect for what I wanted. I also prefer reflectors and soft boxes over lots of fill in flash. The other things to consider was the limiting of the stacking for a more natural effect and perhaps the deal breaker, the proper processing of a digital black and white mage.

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8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Speaking to some of the builders of the layout, they were a bit miffed, too, Tony. Not by my comments (which, as you'll know, I made known to them!) but by the plonking-down of a totally out-of-the-box, brand new loco, which then ran unimpeded for the rest of the show. 'Democracy', I think I was told.

 

The photograph in question does indeed show some very fine modelling - exquisite in some places. Hence my comment on a straight-from-the-box loco being 'wholly unacceptable'. 

 

May I put it this way, please? If I'd paid money to see the show, and the overall layout I was looking at was clearly the product of craftsmanship, self-reliance, inventiveness, personal modelling and all of it very well done, I'd be very miffed to see something I could see in a model shop for nothing running on it. And I was! 

 

The ultimate absurdity regarding this occurred at a show some little time ago when two identical, just released RTR locos appeared on a layout for the duration. They'd both been bought at the show (by different people) and the owners exercised their individual 'right' to run something on the club layout. I walked away! I wonder how many other spectators thought that 'acceptable', wholly or otherwise? 

 

And, just to show that modified/detailed/weathered RTR locos are entirely acceptable in my view..............

 

Some more views of the same layout.........

 

22528111_Cadiford04.jpg.69b61e6113a1252cdad986ad02ec9c3c.jpg

 

575989250_Cadiford17.jpg.dc747f03189f6359196aaa14fd96f293.jpg

 

1436871413_Cadiford20A.jpg.ebdc16a947980c6cdcafe27fa6ccfd78.jpg

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. It might amuse you to know, Tony, that when I'm invited to take pictures of a layout, without exception, the layout builders ask me my opinion. They don't (won't?) always agree with me, but they want to know. 

 

Much better in my view than the sneaky comments one often hears as 'criticism', then, when 'confronted', the commentator disappears. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am sure that if people had any idea that the photos you take are going to be used on a public forum to draw attention to what they have done wrong, they may not be quite so keen on you taking them.

 

Criticism that has been requested is one thing, belittling the work of others by calling it "unacceptable" is another.

 

I see much that is wrong either on individual models or on layouts. I will sometimes offer comment in a private way, not drawing the attention of others to the fault, or if I am asked to comment, I will mention things.

 

In your photo above, I can see a couple of things that I would regard as worse than running a RTR loco.

 

Surely any decent photographer would have sorted out the signals and points before pressing the shutter! Portraying correct operation is just as important as correct locos.

 

We all get things wrong sometimes and having our mistakes pointed out to us is bad enough. To have them described as "unacceptable" is a step too far for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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