Wright writes.....

[Clive Mortimore]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Very interesting Dave,

 

Isolation can have an up-side, though the circumstances bringing it on are not good. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony and All

 

Today I placed an order with Peter's Spares for a pair of the new Bachmann class 24s and was asked, very nicely,  was I panic buying as I was ordering two. The chap then went on to say they have become very busy. 

 

6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

With the recent comments regarding the age(s) of railway vehicles, some shots of possible interest.

 

They might well have been seen before, but in a different context......

 

This shot dates from 1962. I think comments have already been made regarding the first two vehicles, but the fourth looks to be a Dia. 86 GP van. What's next is very interesting - a Howlden six-wheeler? Followed by what must be a near brand-new Mk.1. So, 50-odd years separating the two? 

 

 

According to the lamps carried, this is an express - again from 1952. The 'youngest' in this set is a post-War Thompson car, still in teak paint. The Gresleys are pre-1931 all-doors, but how old is the first vehicle? And what is it?

The first coach in the first photo looks like a LMS BG converted from a WW1 ambulance train. I was going to say the same for the first coach in the second photo but looking at it the paneling looks GNR or even NER. What ever it is the same type of coach is the second in the first photo.

[31A]

The first in the second photo is an ex GN non gangwayed full brake, of the type designated "Milk Train Brake" - there were others with sliding doors rather than the four pairs of hinged doors seen in the picture.  The second in the first picture looks to be of the same type.  I made one once, from Nick Campling's drawings first published in "Model Railways" in the 1970s, and repeated in the "Historic carriage Drawings" book.

[Headstock]

 

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

With the recent comments regarding the age(s) of railway vehicles, some shots of possible interest.

 

They might well have been seen before, but in a different context......

 

This shot dates from 1952. I think comments have already been made regarding the first two vehicles, but the fourth looks to be a Dia. 86 GP van. What's next is very interesting - a Howlden six-wheeler? Followed by what must be a near brand-new Mk.1. So, 50-odd years separating the two? 

 

 

According to the lamps carried, this is an express - again from 1952. The 'youngest' in this set is a post-War Thompson car, still in teak paint. The Gresleys are pre-1931 all-doors (I think the last car is a Gresley, but I could be wrong), but how old is the first vehicle? And what is it?

 

A lovely array of wagons are visible in this shot, taken from a train of 50A, in 1951. 

 

One of the wagons appears to have white- or yellow-painted ends. For internal use only? 

 

Please observe copyright restrictions. 

 

 

 

 

 

The first photo, ex LMS BG, ambulance car conversion, ex GN milk brake, ex SR PMV or CCT, ex LNER GV, ex GN Howlden bogie luggage van, MK1 TK, carriage, no2 looks like a compo, three would be a third, leaving one brake?

 

The second photo, a typical ex LNER three set, BCK (2-4) Gresley, TK (7) Thompson, BTK (5) Gresley. The GC section ran identical three sets but favoured the 6 compartment brake third. The van is another ex GN milk brake.

 

Photo three, some nice hoppers and other minerals, they look to be ex LNER 21 ton types and maybe an LMS iron stone hopper.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Headstock
Clarify a point.

[great central]

7 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Check your memories again Tony, Sam Fox's Stocksbridge works was (and still is) on a branch off the mainline from Deepcar - electrification never went anywhere near it. I'm still trying to puzzle what you saw and where.

 

We have an abandoned wagon off the road on the steelworks line on Deepcar. Maybe that is the one Tony is thinking of

 

[t-b-g]

There was a 4 wheeled carriage from the MSLR that was originally a luggage tri-composite built in 1876 that could still be seen attached to passenger trains as a Departmental S & T vehicle in the 1960s. It was used to transport parts between Retford and Peterborough and because some of the parts were delicate, it was run on passenger trains rather than on freight, which may have suffered more rough shunting.

 

https://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/MS&L.htm

 

Which is why it survived to be preserved.

 

I built a model of it for Retford. So an 1870s carriage on a 1950s layout is not impossible.

 

 

Long surviving vehicles can be an interesting feature on layouts but they should really be presented in the condition that they would be in at the date the layout is set if they are to fit in with the overall scene. Company vehicles with large lettering would be rare by the 1950s and if they appeared at all, it would be old lettering appearing under a poor repaint or they would be in very grotty condition. Clean LMS vehicles with clear white lettering from 20 years ago would be most unlikely.

Edited March 18, 2020 by t-b-g

[31A]

2 hours ago, 31A said:

The first in the second photo is an ex GN non gangwayed full brake, of the type designated "Milk Train Brake" - there were others with sliding doors rather than the four pairs of hinged doors seen in the picture.  The second in the first picture looks to be of the same type.  I made one once, from Nick Campling's drawings first published in "Model Railways" in the 1970s, and repeated in the "Historic carriage Drawings" book.

 

Here's the one I made earlier, about 40 years earlier in fact I should think.  It's a little bit warped in places but I suspect it's always been like that!

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, great central said:

 

We have an abandoned wagon off the road on the steelworks line on Deepcar. Maybe that is the one Tony is thinking of

 

It could be,

 

But it's at least 60 years ago!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

48 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

There was a 4 wheeled carriage from the MSLR that was originally a luggage tri-composite built in 1876 that could still be seen attached to passenger trains as a Departmental S & T vehicle in the 1960s. It was used to transport parts between Retford and Peterborough and because some of the parts were delicate, it was run on passenger trains rather than on freight, which may have suffered more rough shunting.

 

https://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/MS&L.htm

 

Which is why it survived to be preserved.

 

I built a model of it for Retford. So an 1870s carriage on a 1950s layout is not impossible.

 

 

Long surviving vehicles can be an interesting feature on layouts but they should really be presented in the condition that they would be in at the date the layout is set if they are to fit in with the overall scene. Company vehicles with large lettering would be rare by the 1950s and if they appeared at all, it would be old lettering appearing under a poor repaint or they would be in very grotty condition. Clean LMS vehicles with clear white lettering from 20 years ago would be most unlikely.

How was this lovely model lettered, Tony? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Two superannuated vehicles in engineers' use on LB.

 

 

John Isherwood very kindly supplied the bespoke transfers.

 

The weathering is by Richard Wilson. 

[Headstock]

My own dia 86 General van, it was working between Banbury and Sheffield in the forties and fifties. Also, my ex GER XB. This van was working between Gorton works, Nottingham, Leicester, Woodford and return, again in the forties and fifties. The photo captures the van in 1947 heading south from Nottingham at Belgrave and Birstall.

[t-b-g]

48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

How was this lovely model lettered, Tony? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I thought that I had photographed the carriage with the lettering completed but I can't find them now, so maybe I missed the chance.

 

The lettering was taken from some Modelmaster transfers for Departmental vehicles. At the time the model was built, we had very few details and the lettering had to be based on similar vehicles that had been photographed.

 

Later, prototype information came to light and my lettering was found to be close but not 100% right. I can't see it being altered now.

 

What was interesting was that a couple of colour photos of the vehicle, straight out of BR use into preservation, have appeared on the web and the main body colour was a very dark red, not black. Whether it was painted after the period for Retford or whether it should have been red in 1957, I don't know.

 

 https://worthnews.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/vct-5021.jpg

 

Takes you to a view of it when it had just arrived at the KWVR.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I thought that I had photographed the carriage with the lettering completed but I can't find them now, so maybe I missed the chance.

 

The lettering was taken from some Modelmaster transfers for Departmental vehicles. At the time the model was built, we had very few details and the lettering had to be based on similar vehicles that had been photographed.

 

Later, prototype information came to light and my lettering was found to be close but not 100% right. I can't see it being altered now.

 

What was interesting was that a couple of colour photos of the vehicle, straight out of BR use into preservation, have appeared on the web and the main body colour was a very dark red, not black. Whether it was painted after the period for Retford or whether it should have been red in 1957, I don't know.

 

 https://worthnews.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/vct-5021.jpg

 

Takes you to a view of it when it had just arrived at the KWVR.

 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

I think red was the engineers' stock colour from later - perhaps 1960 or after (someone on here is bound to know). 

 

Colour pictures from the '50s showing engineers' stock seem to show it faded black.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Daniel W]

'Gulf Red' was the colour used for engineers stock for a short period. I'm unsure of the exact dates, but it seems to be from about 1960-65. After that point i think they either went back to black for a while or just straight to the well known Olive.

 

Ther reason why it was phased out so quickly was possibly because it tended to fade to pink! If you look at a lot of pictures of catfish hoppers on the London Midland Region in the 60's, however, you will see quite a lot of them in Gulf Red.

[96701]

On 16/03/2020 at 21:37, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

 

Speaking of Peco WW, I built this when I were but a lad (it was a family birthday present). Is ir right?

 

Critical comment, please.

 

I really don't mind.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

I have absolutely no interest in wagons at all and know nothing about them, but the above is bound to be right because it is yours, you built it and it is part of your psyche.  I have bought things. This includes a Class 50, 50007 Sir Edward Elgar. My aged aunt gave me £50.00 for my 50th birthday. Edward Elgar died 23/02/34 and 50007 was renamed Sir Edward Elgar on 25/02/84 to commemorate 50 years since his death. So many 50s in this little tale, so I have a huge affinity for my model. You should be rightly proud that a model that you built is still running on your layout, so of course it is right.

 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I think red was the engineers' stock colour from later - perhaps 1960 or after (someone on here is bound to know). 

 

Colour pictures from the '50s showing engineers' stock seem to show it faded black.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

That is what I thought and the reason why the Retford one will stay black! It was just a shock when I saw the red as I had considered that it would have been withdrawn when still black.

 

When I get the chance to see it again, I will photograph it with the lettering.

 

I actually built it twice. I haven't done much scratchbuilding of panelled carriages and the first effort was so awful I scrapped it and started again.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, 96701 said:

My aged aunt gave me £50.00 for my 50th birthday

50 quid was still worth 50 quid in those days!

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

That is what I thought and the reason why the Retford one will stay black! It was just a shock when I saw the red as I had considered that it would have been withdrawn when still black.

 

When I get the chance to see it again, I will photograph it with the lettering.

 

I actually built it twice. I haven't done much scratchbuilding of panelled carriages and the first effort was so awful I scrapped it and started again.

 

 

I'm sure black is right, Tony,

 

There's a colour shot in one of my books (Eastern Region Steam, or something like that) of a breakdown train on Boston depot (with a K2 at its head). The picture was taken at the time depicted on Retford, and all the stock is black - very dirty/faded and ancient! The book in question is being used by Geoff Haynes right now to assist him in painting a particular A1, so I can't give the page, but the image was used for painting/weathering those vehicles on LB shown earlier (and also shown in this post) . 

 

I also have another shot of a breakdown train (it might even be in the same book) with a J6 at Wood Green, and all the stock in that is faded black - again from the '50s. A later shot I have (in the same book?) shows a B1 hauling an engineers' train, and the stock is bright red (freshly-painted?). It's also old in the main.

 

I think whatever colour is chosen for engineers' stock (unless it's just been painted), it will be faded/weathered (I have a shot I took of an HST at Huntingdon in 1979, and in the background is a Gresley carriage, in faded blue). Most engineer's stock tended to be old/downgraded carriages.

 

Not weathered, such stock just doesn't look natural.........

 

 

This is the Mousa Models ex-GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third after I'd built it, and painted it in Halfords satin black. Once again thanks to John Isherwood for the lovely transfers. 

 

The whole thing's finish isn't realistic.

 

 

After Richard Wilson weathered it; much more natural I think. 

 

 

And, as an engineers' 'layout coach' - just right I think. 

 

The four-wheeler is an etched brass kit (from Discreet Models?), bought part-built from a deceased modeller's estate. I finished it, painted it, and Richard Wilson weathered this as well. 

[96701]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

50 quid was still worth 50 quid in those days!

Cheeky! It was only 15 years ago. 

[drmditch]

37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I think whatever colour is chosen for engineers' stock (unless it's just been painted), it will be faded/weathered (I have a shot I took of an HST at Huntingdon in 1979, and in the background is a Gresley carriage, in faded blue). Most engineer's stock tended to be old/downgraded carriages.

 

Would it be possible to reproduce your 1979 photograph on here?

It would be very useful to those who model the late LNER.

[grahame]

57 minutes ago, drmditch said:

 

Would it be possible to reproduce your 1979 photograph on here?

It would be very useful to those who model the late LNER.

 

And anything from BR(S) and NSE in the 80s as well. That'd be useful for me.

;-)

 

 

[Tony Wright]

42 minutes ago, drmditch said:

 

Would it be possible to reproduce your 1979 photograph on here?

It would be very useful to those who model the late LNER.

It's a transparency, and I've no idea how to scan it.

 

I'll investigate, though it probably will mean breaking the 'curfew'!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Has Hornby finally cracked the lack of haulage power in its steam-outline RTR locos?

 

 

I've just finished photographing and writing my review of the latest Hornby 'Princess Royal'. 

 

Its haulage capacity is remarkable. Here it is on 14 kit-built bogies (and an RTR horsebox), which it's just walked away with. No Hornby A3 or A4 will touch this, nor Bachmann's Peppercorn Pacifics, either. 

 

At last!

 

 

Here's the 'drive'. I have no idea whether this is different from what's gone before, but it's certainly impressive (it also includes a firebox glow). 

 

 

[jacko]

I just ordered mine last night. I have a feeling it's going to look smashing with a little subtle weathering. Now all I have to do is put some effort into getting my layout finished. 

 

Graeme 

 

edit.  When can we expect to see your review Tony?

Edited March 19, 2020 by jacko

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm sure black is right, Tony,

 

There's a colour shot in one of my books (Eastern Region Steam, or something like that) of a breakdown train on Boston depot (with a K2 at its head). The picture was taken at the time depicted on Retford, and all the stock is black - very dirty/faded and ancient! The book in question is being used by Geoff Haynes right now to assist him in painting a particular A1, so I can't give the page, but the image was used for painting/weathering those vehicles on LB shown earlier (and also shown in this post) . 

 

I also have another shot of a breakdown train (it might even be in the same book) with a J6 at Wood Green, and all the stock in that is faded black - again from the '50s. A later shot I have (in the same book?) shows a B1 hauling an engineers' train, and the stock is bright red (freshly-painted?). It's also old in the main.

 

I think whatever colour is chosen for engineers' stock (unless it's just been painted), it will be faded/weathered (I have a shot I took of an HST at Huntingdon in 1979, and in the background is a Gresley carriage, in faded blue). Most engineer's stock tended to be old/downgraded carriages.

 

Not weathered, such stock just doesn't look natural.........

 

 

This is the Mousa Models ex-GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third after I'd built it, and painted it in Halfords satin black. Once again thanks to John Isherwood for the lovely transfers. 

 

The whole thing's finish isn't realistic.

 

 

After Richard Wilson weathered it; much more natural I think. 

 

 

And, as an engineers' 'layout coach' - just right I think. 

 

The four-wheeler is an etched brass kit (from Discreet Models?), bought part-built from a deceased modeller's estate. I finished it, painted it, and Richard Wilson weathered this as well. 

 

Perhaps we should build such things from wood rather than brass, plastic or resin, so we can model the rotting panels that such vehicles often show. I don't know if it is just me but building something deliberately "wonky" just doesn't come easily, even if I know that the prototype was like that in reality. Bent handrails or footplates on locos, grotty beading on carriages, it just never looks right on a model. No matter what photo evidence exists, it always looks more like shoddy workmanship.

 

I am struggling to identify the prototype of the 4 wheeler. It doesn't look like one of "ours" (GNR/GCR).

 

The Howlden vehicles have much GNR character and I have a number of D & S kits stashed away, which will form a GNR period set one day. Were the metal disk wheels common on these types? The ones I have seen have usually had the wooden type.

[richard i]

The princess looks really good in 1930s LMS livery.