Wright writes.....

[MJI]

I think I would superglue, then when set reinforce with epoxy.

 

This is how I stuck plastic roofs to etched bodies with my latest DMU

[Chuffer Davies]

56 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I would test some evostick on a piece of scrap then.  To apply it I would spread it on the White metal, let it go off then press the plastic on it it should stick OK.

Jamie

 

Hi, a slight enhancement perhaps:  apply the Evostick to the white metal and let it dry fully.  Then you can use standard plastic solvent to stick the plastic to the Evostick.  My only question is what is the life time of Evostick?  Does it degrade after a few years?

Regards,

Frank

[Paul Cram]

I use evoostick to fix the compensated W irons to the plasic floor. I have only had a couple come unstuck over a 40 year period.

 

Thats an intersting idea re solvent

Edited April 13, 2020 by Paul Cram

[gr.king]

Is most of that planked plastic simply standing loose inside the body in the photograph? Does a lot of it only make edge-contact with the white metal?

If so on both counts, then why not simply use solvent to bond all of the plastic parts together (in situ) to form a snug-fitting drop-in hopper structure which will then only need to be retained by a a small amount of runny cyano, epoxy or Uhu around the edges. It isn't going to need massive structural strength or shock-resistance in the metal to plastic bond in such a recessed, sheltered location, is it?

Edited April 14, 2020 by gr.king
Spelling mistake!

[gr.king]

2 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi, a slight enhancement perhaps:  apply the Evostick to the white metal and let it dry fully.  Then you can use standard plastic solvent to stick the plastic to the Evostick.  My only question is what is the life time of Evostick?  Does it degrade after a few years?

Regards,

Frank

 

Interesting idea Frank. Can you confirm please that you've actually succeeded in firmly solvent-bonding styrene plastic to dried Evostick, rather than this simply being a proposed method?

[Tony Wright]

Last week I was a little cross that my point rodding didn't run consistently parallel with the Down slow. 

 

Was this image subliminal when I was laying it? 

 

Illustrating the scene at Little Bytham some four years after the time represented on the model, it looks as if some of the runs have been removed due to track rationalisation at the south end.

 

The signalling (out of sight to the right) would appear to have been altered in some way. Those pulley posts run along the site of the Up island platform.  

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Chuffer Davies]

21 minutes ago, gr.king said:

 

Interesting idea Frank. Can you confirm please that you've actually succeeded in firmly solvent-bonding styrene plastic to dried Evostick, rather than this simply being a proposed method?

Yes it is based on experience although I can't take crdit for discovering it. 

 

The one and only building I made for Hungerford had a plywood shell onto which I wanted to bond some brick embossed plasticard but trying to use Evostick on both surfaces resulted in the solvent in the Evostick severely warping the plastic.  The solution I was recommended by a colleague at the Wakefield club was to apply the Evostick to the plywood and once dry to use solvent to adhere the plastic to the Evostick.  The plastic definitely adhered and the building is still intact 20 years later.

 

Regards,

Frank

 

[Tony Wright]

One thing I'm always investigating is the notion of finding new angles from which to photograph Little Bytham.

 

The following shots show some shunting activity in the goods yard........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Geoff West's little porter and PMP's little shunter are working as hard as ever!

 

 

 

 

 

And the eventual departure of the short freight. 

 

I usually take pictures of the locos I've made (pomposity?), but (as is well known) I haven't built every one. This deliciously-mucky K1 was built/painted/weathered by John Houlden and used to run on East Ranford and Gamston Bank. I'm delighted to say I now own it. 

 

Apart from a couple of vehicles, none of the freight stock in these pictures is my work.

 

My intention is to take a group of pictures each day of the layout and post them on here. 

 

Any requests?

 

 

[Jamiel]

My apologies for the quality of the photos, it is darker outside than I expected. I need to get my tripod out and use a bigger F-stop.

 

Working on a Class 120 DMU, 3 car, but only showing the two driving units at the moment. Mostly from the Craftsman conversion kits, but Comet underframes, MTK bogies and a wealth of other sources. To be powered by a Replica Railways motorised frame and controlled by DCC.

The units are roughly assembled, but not fully screwed together yet, hence the body sitting up a bit on one of them.

 

Some advice sought.

 

What do people think about using the metal end pieces for the bellows on what will be a permanently coupled set of coaches?

 

I have read elsewhere, the bellows need to be cut down a bit. Roughly connected with a couple of Kadees at the moment.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how effective the cables for the lights masquerading as brake pipes are. Will they be flexible enough to take corners or will they derail the model? They will fit into the centre car which is still being glazed at the moment.

 

The other question is what would people advise for glazing the destination boxes. I do have some Glue’n’Glaze, but it seems to remain tacky. Would varnish be good, or would cutting very small pieces of clear plastic and fixing them in, presumably with Glue’n’ Glaze?

 

Thanks to Tony and all on the thread for the constant inspiration.

 

Jamie

Edited April 13, 2020 by Jamiel

[Paul Cram]

1 hour ago, gr.king said:

Is most of that planked plastic simply standing loose inside the body in the photograph? Does a lot of it only make edge-contact with the white metal?

If so on both counts, then why not simply use solvent to bond all of the plastic parts together (in situ) to form a snug-fitting drop-in hopper structure which will then only need to be retained by a a small amount of runny cyano, epoxy or Uhu around the edges. It isn't going to need massive structural strength or shock-resistance in the metal to plastic bond in such a recessed, shelter location, is it?

That is what I have ended up doing. The sub floor locates between white metal ledges so can't come out and everything else has been fixed to it using butanone. I wasn't sure whether it would work but it has.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Paul Cram

[Michael Edge]

52 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Yes it is based on experience although I can't take crdit for discovering it. 

 

The one and only building I made for Hungerford had a plywood shell onto which I wanted to bond some brick embossed plasticard but trying to use Evostick on both surfaces resulted in the solvent in the Evostick severely warping the plastic.  The solution I was recommended by a colleague at the Wakefield club was to apply the Evostick to the plywood and once dry to use solvent to adhere the plastic to the Evostick.  The plastic definitely adhered and the building is still intact 20 years later.

 

Regards,

Frank

 

A better way would have been to put plastikard on both sides. In answer to an earlier question Evostik does have a limited life - but maybe about 20-30 years.

[Chuffer Davies]

57 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

A better way would have been to put plastikard on both sides. In answer to an earlier question Evostik does have a limited life - but maybe about 20-30 years.

Hi Michael,

a poorly phrased statement on my part.  When I said warped, I meant as in melted/warped.  Evostik directly applied to some sheet plastics just destroys them.  I did actually apply plastic sheet to both sides of the thin plywood but because I used a different (non embossed) plastic sheet on the inside regrettably the sides still warped and required considerable internal bracing to straighten them out again.  If I was doing it again I’d use the same material on both sides. We live and learn.

Frank

[PMP]

1 hour ago, Jamiel said:

 

 

Some advice sought.

 

What do people think about using the metal end pieces for the bellows on what will be a permanently coupled set of coaches?

 

I have read elsewhere, the bellows need to be cut down a bit. Roughly connected with a couple of Kadees at the moment.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how effective the cables for the lights masquerading as brake pipes are. Will they be flexible enough to take corners or will they derail the model? They will fit into the centre car which is still being glazed at the moment.

 

Jamie

 

I’d fit the metal end plates to the bellows. Colour them with either ‘gun blue’ or similar, or paint. I used Slaters bellows on my 108, and painted those,see pic. The wire connections should work ok providing they’re multi strand wire. If you use a single core the rigidity may give you problems where a thin multi core will be far more flexible. For the headcode/destination glazing is definitely spend time cutting it from sheet, and fixing it with a varnish around the periphery. Glue and glaze type products often end up with thick meniscus edges and the glazed panel obviously not flat. I have used it as a glazing adhesive though.

 

They look a nice job, could you finish them please as that will mean a ready to run version will immediately be announced

[Manxcat]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

My intention is to take a group of pictures each day of the layout and post them on here. 

 

Any requests?

 

 

Given the tantalising glimpses of the station building, how about a few shots from track level of a selection of the buildings Tony? No rolling stock of any kind in view, just the buildings. Or is that too close to anathema for you I wonder.

[Northmoor]

8 minutes ago, Manxcat said:

Given the tantalising glimpses of the station building, how about a few shots from track level of a selection of the buildings Tony? No rolling stock of any kind in view, just the buildings. Or is that too close to anathema for you I wonder.

Ooh, I'll second that request.  A lot of Tony's shots from ground/platform level have an air of Henry Priestley about them.  Priestley was one of the GREAT railway photographers, usually taking in the wider scene and the infrastructure of the railway; sometimes without even a train in the picture.  This was at a time when most photographers just took 3/4 views of the train and mostly of the locomotives, so recorded very little of what the railway actually looked like at the time.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Jamiel said:

My apologies for the quality of the photos, it is darker outside than I expected. I need to get my tripod out and use a bigger F-stop.

 

Working on a Class 120 DMU, 3 car, but only showing the two driving units at the moment. Mostly from the Craftsman conversion kits, but Comet underframes, MTK bogies and a wealth of other sources. To be powered by a Replica Railways motorised frame and controlled by DCC.

The units are roughly assembled, but not fully screwed together yet, hence the body sitting up a bit on one of the.

 

Some advice sought.

 

What do people think about using the metal end pieces for the bellows on what will be a permanently coupled set of coaches?

 

I have read elsewhere, the bellows need to be cut down a bit. Roughly connected with a couple of Kadees at the moment.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how effective the cables for the lights masquerading as brake pipes are. Will they be flexible enough to take corners or will they derail the model? They will fit into the centre car which is still being glazed at the moment.

 

The other question is what would people advise for glazing the destination boxes. I do have some Glue’n’Glaze, but it seems to remain tacky. Would varnish be good, or would cutting very small pieces of clear plastic and fixing them in, presumably with Glue’n’ Glaze?

 

Thanks to Tony and all on the thread for the constant inspiration.

 

Jamie

Good evening Jamie,

 

For corridor connectors, I use Modellers Mecca's concertina black paper items.

 

These are sold in pairs to suit a very wide variety of RTR carriages/units.

 

 

I only ever use one of the pair (meaning one gets enough for two cars from one pack). Here's one in use joining up a Cravens DMU. 

 

 

And a pair of modified Bachmann Mk.1s. Of course, the distance apart of the cars is entirely dependent on the radii used. Bytham's main line minimum radius on the non-scenic sections is 3'; wider on the main running lines. Meaning carriages can be closer-coupled. 

 

I think the two connectors are designed for tension-lock-fitted carriages (Ugh!). 

 

 

As supplied, they have these 'wings' on the ends to ensure no gangway locking on reverse curves.

 

They come mounted on a balsa block, which just pushes into the end of the open gangway. 

 

 

Where there is no obvious gangway, the balsa block is just cut off. 

 

 

Where radii are tighter (in this case running on the M&GNR bit), then I still just use one, but it's at full-extension. 

 

 

Occasionally, the 'wings' can be trimmed off.

 

 

However, if this is done then the open gangway on the pulling coach must be blanked off. In this case by some black, self-adhesive PVC insulation tape.

 

On visiting Peterborough North one day, Gilbert Barnatt was frustrated by his non-wing-fitted adjacent cars derailing on reverse curves as they 'locked'. He was astonished how easy the solution was! This is another example of how forces do not scale. If the connectors on the real thing got snagged up, they'd be ripped off. 

 

 

Despite carriages needing to be further apart than scale on the MR/M&GNR because of the 24" curves into/out of the fiddle yard, corridor connectors between carriages are essential to retain a semblance of realism.

 

 

I've seen too many, quite high-standard layouts where these vital corridor connectors are not employed. Miniature passengers would fall to their deaths by the score as they tried to move along the train! 

 

I have no connection with Modellers Mecca (other than as a very-satisfied customer). Lucy Pitch, the proprietor, can be contacted at lucy@modellers-mecca.co.uk

 

I hope these shots are of some use.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Manxcat said:

Given the tantalising glimpses of the station building, how about a few shots from track level of a selection of the buildings Tony? No rolling stock of any kind in view, just the buildings. Or is that too close to anathema for you I wonder.

Anathema, Archie?

 

It's tomorrow's job!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Theakerr]

3 hours ago, Jamiel said:

My apologies for the quality of the photos, it is darker outside than I expected. I need to get my tripod out and use a bigger F-stop.

 

Working on a Class 120 DMU, 3 car, but only showing the two driving units at the moment. Mostly from the Craftsman conversion kits, but Comet underframes, MTK bogies and a wealth of other sources. To be powered by a Replica Railways motorised frame and controlled by DCC.

The units are roughly assembled, but not fully screwed together yet, hence the body sitting up a bit on one of them.

 

Some advice sought.

 

What do people think about using the metal end pieces for the bellows on what will be a permanently coupled set of coaches?

 

I have read elsewhere, the bellows need to be cut down a bit. Roughly connected with a couple of Kadees at the moment.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how effective the cables for the lights masquerading as brake pipes are. Will they be flexible enough to take corners or will they derail the model? They will fit into the centre car which is still being glazed at the moment.

 

The other question is what would people advise for glazing the destination boxes. I do have some Glue’n’Glaze, but it seems to remain tacky. Would varnish be good, or would cutting very small pieces of clear plastic and fixing them in, presumably with Glue’n’ Glaze?

 

Thanks to Tony and all on the thread for the constant inspiration.

 

Jamie

I dont know whose Corridor connectors you are using but I have used the plastic ends or card ends when I used to make my own because I wanted to ensure that they would slide on each other.   In any case they hardly show and you are using them in fixed rakes so I would suggest that anyhting that has a bit of slipperiness will work

[Theakerr]

Tony where did you manage to get some of those old Modelers Meca connectors from?  I have a few left from eons ago.  I think they are much better than the V interlock type that appear to be the only ones on the market today.  I was thinking that during this 'lockdown' I might have a go at making some of the graph paper ones as demonstrated in Model Railway Constructor some 55+ years ago.  They still make into a pretty good unit

[robertcwp]

9 hours ago, MJI said:

 

For an East Coast layout detailed Airfixs are essential, 2E and 2F are just wrong.

 

 

That is true of 2e stock which required at least 800v train supply. Deltics and 47 401-20 were banned from hauling them. However, the Eastern had a substantial allocation of Mark 2f stock from around 1973/4 (over 80 of them) and some trains were specified in the carriage workings as having Mark 2f open firsts. Mixed 2d/f sets were common in the mid-1970s, I remember a 1975 family trip to Scotland in a 2f TSO. Most of the others were 2d. Several 2f BSOs were transferred from the LMR shortly after introduction too.

 

E6150 is just visible in this shot:

55008_Doncaster_unscheduled-stop-down-FS_10-4-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Third carriage in this one is a 2f FO:

55007_York_Apr-77 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This is a poor quality image but the first three are 2f TSOs:

55003_ChalonersWhin_0745-KX-Edb_20-4-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

At least the first four are 2f TSOs in this set:

55006_StNeots_4-9-76 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

All shallow door windows on this BSO so probably a 2f:

55015_Unknown by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Tony Wright]

27 minutes ago, Theakerr said:

Tony where did you manage to get some of those old Modelers Meca connectors from?  I have a few left from eons ago.  I think they are much better than the V interlock type that appear to be the only ones on the market today.  I was thinking that during this 'lockdown' I might have a go at making some of the graph paper ones as demonstrated in Model Railway Constructor some 55+ years ago.  They still make into a pretty good unit

I've been using Modellers Mecca concertina gangways for years, and as far as I know the design hasn't changed. I ordered some more late last year and they seem to be the same as always. 

 

If it has changed, I'm ignorant of the alterations. The coach I completed last week uses the latest ones.

 

The gangways were made by a chap called Lester South (yes, he reckoned his parents had an odd sense of humour); maybe he still makes them for MM, but I don't know.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Teague]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I've been using Modellers Mecca concertina gangways for years, and as far as I know the design hasn't changed. I ordered some more late last year and they seem to be the same as always. 

 

If it has changed, I'm ignorant of the alterations. The coach I completed last week uses the latest ones.

 

The gangways were made by a chap called Lester South (yes, he reckoned his parents had an odd sense of humour); maybe he still makes them for MM, but I don't know.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I also use the MM corridor connections; there is a very large range which have fairly subtle variations so as to fit most types of RTR carriages - and kit built stock as well.

I have had some delivered this year so they are certainly still in production.

Tony

[robertcwp]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I've been using Modellers Mecca concertina gangways for years, and as far as I know the design hasn't changed. I ordered some more late last year and they seem to be the same as always. 

 

If it has changed, I'm ignorant of the alterations. The coach I completed last week uses the latest ones.

 

The gangways were made by a chap called Lester South (yes, he reckoned his parents had an odd sense of humour); maybe he still makes them for MM, but I don't know.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have used them for years too. I put them on one end of a carriage and blank off the gangway on the other end with 0.25 mm black plastic sheet. This is for the ends within set as opposed to at the ends of rakes, where the carriage will have a Sprat & Winkle coupling and usually an end board.

 

I have evolved the way I do the gangways over time and now I make the blanking board with a piece of plastic behind it and secure it with blacktack (much better than Blu-tac). This way I can easily change things if I want to turn a carriage round or in some cases convert an end to a middle or vice-versa (quite a few of my Bachmann Mark 1s are like this). 

 

Modellers Mecca closed their shop but they are still trading online for their gangways and a few other things. See: https://modellers-mecca.co.uk/.

[robertcwp]

4 hours ago, Jamiel said:

My apologies for the quality of the photos, it is darker outside than I expected. I need to get my tripod out and use a bigger F-stop.

 

Working on a Class 120 DMU, 3 car, but only showing the two driving units at the moment. Mostly from the Craftsman conversion kits, but Comet underframes, MTK bogies and a wealth of other sources. To be powered by a Replica Railways motorised frame and controlled by DCC.

The units are roughly assembled, but not fully screwed together yet, hence the body sitting up a bit on one of them.

 

Some advice sought.

 

What do people think about using the metal end pieces for the bellows on what will be a permanently coupled set of coaches?

 

I have read elsewhere, the bellows need to be cut down a bit. Roughly connected with a couple of Kadees at the moment.

 

 

It will be interesting to see how effective the cables for the lights masquerading as brake pipes are. Will they be flexible enough to take corners or will they derail the model? They will fit into the centre car which is still being glazed at the moment.

 

The other question is what would people advise for glazing the destination boxes. I do have some Glue’n’Glaze, but it seems to remain tacky. Would varnish be good, or would cutting very small pieces of clear plastic and fixing them in, presumably with Glue’n’ Glaze?

 

Thanks to Tony and all on the thread for the constant inspiration.

 

Jamie

I still live in hope of an RTR 120!

 

I have what I believe is the original demo build of the Craftsman 120 which appeared in magazine reviews and adverts. I acquired it second-hand from Hattons. I recall Brian Kirby spotting it on their site and alerting me. I would have missed it otherwise.

 

Apart from changing the wheels and replacing the motor with one from a Lima 73, it's pretty much as I bought it, hence it still has a 117 underframe and sits too high, but I'm not altering it. 

 

P1070630am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Edited April 13, 2020 by robertcwp

[Jamiel]

Thank you Tony, PMP, Theakerr, Tony Teague and RobertCWP.

 

Your replies are very helpful indeed. The concertinas I are ones I have cut from light black card/heavy paper – depending on your grams/meter squared definitions.

 

Here is a template I drew up in Photoshop. If it works, then it might be of some use, but hold on for the moment as my layout is not running at the moment.

 

I had assumed that you use two concertinas for each connection, but one going across the full gap makes much more sense. I will watch out for it snagging. I agree that gaps between coaches are unsightly, even if the gaps have to be widened for the curve radii.  

I will also keep an eye out for how the wires perform, they are single strand, but connected to muti-strand with plenty of play just inside the body of the end units.

 

Lovely to see the original Craftsman build, much more generous curtains than my measly ones. I did have fun scratch building the underframe from brass, offcuts, spares and a few resin castings I made. It does follow the look of the prototype, but looking at the most recent Bachmann DMU’s the underframe detail is quite amazing. I agree with Tony that, when you have built something it is your own, and I feel that.

 

As PMP says, it only takes a self-build to make sure a RTR ones comes along soon, and I am sure that someone announced a N gauge Class 120 (Dapol?) recently, and as I have seen with a lot of stock once the CADs are done for one gauge, the others often follow, so I suspect you wish will come pretty soon. Bachmann’s LMS Inspection salon was one example.

 

I am by no means a prolific builder, but over the last few years I have made:

Class 128 DMU parcels unit – Heljan 2 years later. My first conversion, Heljan’s is far better, but I still like mine, I might revisit it one day as it was a first step.

LMS inspection saloon – Bachmann beat me to getting that built. My first brass build, and I really like mine, although it still needs a tiny bit of finishing.

Class 21 diesel – Dapol 1 year later. Dapol’s is lovely, blows mine away.

Bulleid Diesel – Kernow 2 years later. Their bogies are beautiful, but I have some doubts about the level of roof detail.

 

My Class 129 Parcels DMU is holding its own so far, but suspect the Class 120 will be RTR soon.

 

I have a Class 124 Transpennine 6 car unit planned for my next DMU build, and I suspect looking at how the price has risen with the Bachmann Blue Pullman that this might be one that has some life span, but you never know.

Again, thank you for all the replies, advice and invaluable help. I hope everyone is keeping safe and well.

Jamie

Edited April 14, 2020 by Jamiel