Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I think this one may have appeared before...

 

It is also flawed!

 

 

 

Flawed?

 

But still magnificent!

 

I wonder if I took its picture when I photographed Buckingham?

 

I'll look.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

42 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Flawed?

 

But still magnificent!

 

I wonder if I took its picture when I photographed Buckingham?

 

I'll look.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

If it was one of yours, Tony, it would be better lit and in focus! That is one of my own efforts, with my little point and shoot camera plonked down in Platform 4.

[Tony Wright]

I don't think this is the same Buckingham loco, though it's a GC 4-4-0. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a lovely GC 4-4-0.

 

Did Peter have more than one 4-4-0? 

 

 

[Rail-Online]

Tony suggested I posted an extract of this photo, taken near Coventry in  August 1937 as he was unable to help me in my request for details of the coaching stock.  It is a really strange working!  I am pretty sure they are not LMS (or constituent companies) stock, my 'guru' on Southern stuff says they are not his so does any of you guys know?

 

Note the lack of luggage or gaurds compartments except in the Stanier full brake.  The Patriot hauling it was operating displaying ordinary stopping passenger lamps.

 

Cheers Tony

Edited April 24, 2020 by Rail-Online
typo on spelling....

[Mark C]

On 22/04/2020 at 19:38, Tony Wright said:

Well, the D16/3 is finished........................

 

 

I plotted the positions of the handrails and vacuum ejector pipe, taking measurements with spring dividers, from the Little Engines drawing and photographs. 

 

Usually, cast metal boilers have dimples for handrail pillars, though they're often in the wrong place. 

 

 

I always find making the continuous handrail in a rising arc over the smokebox front a real fiddle. This was no exception!

 

 

Just detailing to do now. The chimney and dome came from the Blacksmiths kit. I had three chimneys (two from the Blacksmith kit and one from the Little Engines one). None seemed dead right, and I've an idea that this one might be a trifle tall (though the other two looked too 'dumpy'). I'll live with it for a while before I paint it.

 

 

Complete and ready for the paintshop (in unlined BR black). 

 

Much cleaning up will happen, though I doubt if it'll prevent my soldering still looking like a relief map of the moon! 

 

Though 'old-fashioned', the decorative valances give this loco an elegance; an elegance from a bygone time. 

 

I still have all the bits left to make another hybrid D16/3, but one without the valancing. 

 

Al in all about 20 hours' work, spread over three non-consecutive days (though the frames were made last week). 

 

The pile of kits left to build is still substantial!

Tony

 

There's a cracking colour photo of 62589 in that condition/livery in this month's Steam World.  Please keep photos of the M&GN end coming...

 

Best regards 

Mark 

 

[t-b-g]

13 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't think this is the same Buckingham loco, though it's a GC 4-4-0. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a lovely GC 4-4-0.

 

Did Peter have more than one 4-4-0? 

 

 

 

See what I mean about the lighting and the focus! There are three 4-4-0 locos on Buckingham, the Pollitt example in your pictures, which was one of his first locos built in 1947. There were many very similar GCR types and I have never looked up what class it is but something like an LNER D6 seems about right. Then there is the D9 (GCR Class 11B) which was much later and is probably only 50 years old.

 

The third is my favourite Buckingham loco, the Sacre 4-4-0. The real loco was surely one of the most graceful and downright pretty locos ever to run in this country. The model one gets to run several times during the operating sequence and every time, I sit back and gaze at it gliding along with those outside cranks gently moving her along. Modelling bliss! This was a photo I took on what I thought would be my only chance to see Buckingham, back in 2008, when I got to visit Peter Denny and spend some magical time running the layout with him and chatting all things Great Central.

[richard i]

54 minutes ago, Rail-Online said:

Tony suggested I posted an extract of this photo, taken near Coventry in  August 1937 as he was unable to help me in my request for details of the coaching stock.  It is a really strange working!  I am pretty sure they are not LMS (or constituent companies) stock, my 'guru' on Southern stuff says they are not his so does any of you guys know?

 

Note the lack of luggage or gaurds compartments except in the Stanier full brake.  The Patriot hauling it was operating displaying ordinary stopping passenger lamps.

 

Cheers Tony

The first has a whiff of gcr Parker perhaps and the third looks a little ner in shape, perhaps also the fifth one back because of the trussing. I could be way off the mark though. Until I build a model of something I find it hard to pick up on all the little details to tell with huge certainty.  
fully expect others to tell you what they really are. 
richard 

[jwealleans]

If we're thinking they might be LNER or constituent, the first two have a bit of a North British look to me.  The third one might be NER - the trussing could be the very distinctive double truss they used - but it would need a better quality print to be sure.   I'll ask around.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

See what I mean about the lighting and the focus! There are three 4-4-0 locos on Buckingham, the Pollitt example in your pictures, which was one of his first locos built in 1947. There were many very similar GCR types and I have never looked up what class it is but something like an LNER D6 seems about right. Then there is the D9 (GCR Class 11B) which was much later and is probably only 50 years old.

 

The third is my favourite Buckingham loco, the Sacre 4-4-0. The real loco was surely one of the most graceful and downright pretty locos ever to run in this country. The model one gets to run several times during the operating sequence and every time, I sit back and gaze at it gliding along with those outside cranks gently moving her along. Modelling bliss! This was a photo I took on what I thought would be my only chance to see Buckingham, back in 2008, when I got to visit Peter Denny and spend some magical time running the layout with him and chatting all things Great Central.

A lovely model, Tony,

 

And, I did manage to get a couple of shots of it.......

 

 

 

 

How did Peter get it to go round curves without the bogie fouling the outside frames?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

[Darryl Tooley]

Just now, jwealleans said:

If we're thinking they might be LNER or constituent

Not convinced any of them are.  In particular, the second vehicle, with its absence of a continuous horizontal immediately above and below the windows, is surely ex-LNW, or possibly Furness Railway, while the one behind it, with its high windows and external bracing to the bogies, looks distinctly L&Y to my eyes.

 

D

 

[t-b-g]

20 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A lovely model, Tony,

 

And, I did manage to get a couple of shots of it.......

 

 

 

 

How did Peter get it to go round curves without the bogie fouling the outside frames?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I was astonished that it will go round curves as it does. The smallest radius I have found, coming out of the fiddle yard, is as near to 2ft as I can measure. It was built as a 2-2-4-0. the leading "bogie" wheels run in a normal Denny pony truck, which is a tube for the axle to run in, with the mounting being a sprung wire soldered to the tube and to the lead casting hat forms the centre of the frames. The rear bogie wheels run in a tube which is lightly sprung in a vertical direction but has no lateral play or movement. The lead frame block ensures that the loco sits level and doesn't tilt forwards.

 

Like all the Buckingham locos with bogies or pony trucks, there is an application of Sellotape to the inside of the outside frames, footplate or anywhere else which might get a short on a tight curve. Not as durable as a smear of Araldite but some of it is so old and yellow that it might still be the original application, so it hasn't done badly.

 

I can look at photos of Buckingham nowadays and know if they are staged or part of the timetable. The 0-6-0T in Platform 2 with the coal trucks is an example. It can only have come from Leighton Buzzard or Grandborough sorting sidings but the coal wagons return from Leighton Buzzard empty, not full. It can't be shunting loaded wagons to Grandborough coal yard as the second wagon has loco coal and the loco coal wagon for Grandborough is already at the shed. So that is not a move I recognise at all.

 

The Railmotor ready to go to Leighton Buzzard in the bay is fine and the local service ready to return to Buckingham from Platform 3 with the empty horse box and prize cattle van (if they were full they would be at the front of the train) are all OK to set the time at around 3pm, just before they leave. Yet at that time, Set 1, pictured in Platform 1, should be at Marylebone, having passed through over an hour ago non stop.

 

So either the trains had been put in position especially for the photos or the operators had made a complete mess of the timetable!

 

 

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Tony suggested I posted an extract of this photo, taken near Coventry in  August 1937 as he was unable to help me in my request for details of the coaching stock.  It is a really strange working!  I am pretty sure they are not LMS (or constituent companies) stock, my 'guru' on Southern stuff says they are not his so does any of you guys know?

 

Note the lack of luggage or gaurds compartments except in the Stanier full brake.  The Patriot hauling it was operating displaying ordinary stopping passenger lamps.

 

Cheers Tony

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

they look mostly, LMS pre grouping and one LMS carriage to me. As for the headcode ( I can't see it to confirm), the LMS delved into practices that some would regard as unnatural.

[Headstock]

52 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

Not convinced any of them are.  In particular, the second vehicle, with its absence of a continuous horizontal immediately above and below the windows, is surely ex-LNW, or possibly Furness Railway, while the one behind it, with its high windows and external bracing to the bogies, looks distinctly L&Y to my eyes.

 

D

 

 

I was thinking perhaps a L&Y open third for carriage No 3, No 4 is a  PI corridor third. The leading two carriages have that double cornice effect that I associate with the Midland. A check through ref material would be required to confirm.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Headstock

[Dunsignalling]

22 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Interesting, I have several rakes of Bachmann Mk1’s and their Thompson coaches fitted with Kadees and haven’t experienced any problems.  The gaps between the coaches still open up on the curves then close back up together on straight track as intended.  But they are still relatively new, maybe problems develop with heavy use?

The whole train will tend to look more "of a piece" when rigid links/couplers are used. Keeping the CCUs firmly in line with one another helps each coach to stabilise its neighbours.  

 

Kadees generally work well enough in CCUs when the train is being pulled. When under tension, the side-play they allow doesn't usually cause trouble.

 

However, rigid links work that bit better, and the difference is much more apparent when propelling a rake fitted with Kadees over a crossover or a point followed by a reverse curve (e.g. into carriage sidings). Adjacent CCUs deflect toward the outside of the curve, then try to move quickly back the other way, and the behaviour of the coaches becomes somewhat unpredictable. Rigid links avoid any issues this can cause.

 

John 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[LNER4479]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Graham,

 

You're going to have to take a fair bit more out of the cut-outs in the front frames, even with a 'dead' chassis.

 

I know I had to.

 

Perhaps the following selected pictures might help with the general construction...............................

 

 

A lovely kit to build.

 

The full account is in my Crowood book.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

I have actually built this kit previously, albeit the saturated version. Mind you, it was over five years ago! I have No.4329 to hand to remind myself how I did it. Including enlarging the front bogie wheel frame cut outs...

 

Last night's efforts got me to the same stage as your third pic (footplating fixed to valance).

 

When complete, we'll have five of these ex-GNR D2/D3s available for service on Grantham.

Edited April 24, 2020 by LNER4479

[John Smart]

Are LNER cab interiors 2-tone?

 

I thought it was, what ever was on the outside was also on the inside.

 

There may have been exceptions at individual works.

 

Nice to know an ordinary passenger train near Coventry does not contain 'Foreign Stock' as the NER might call it.

 

John

Edited April 24, 2020 by John Smart

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I was astonished that it will go round curves as it does. The smallest radius I have found, coming out of the fiddle yard, is as near to 2ft as I can measure. It was built as a 2-2-4-0. the leading "bogie" wheels run in a normal Denny pony truck, which is a tube for the axle to run in, with the mounting being a sprung wire soldered to the tube and to the lead casting hat forms the centre of the frames. The rear bogie wheels run in a tube which is lightly sprung in a vertical direction but has no lateral play or movement. The lead frame block ensures that the loco sits level and doesn't tilt forwards.

 

Like all the Buckingham locos with bogies or pony trucks, there is an application of Sellotape to the inside of the outside frames, footplate or anywhere else which might get a short on a tight curve. Not as durable as a smear of Araldite but some of it is so old and yellow that it might still be the original application, so it hasn't done badly.

 

I can look at photos of Buckingham nowadays and know if they are staged or part of the timetable. The 0-6-0T in Platform 2 with the coal trucks is an example. It can only have come from Leighton Buzzard or Grandborough sorting sidings but the coal wagons return from Leighton Buzzard empty, not full. It can't be shunting loaded wagons to Grandborough coal yard as the second wagon has loco coal and the loco coal wagon for Grandborough is already at the shed. So that is not a move I recognise at all.

 

The Railmotor ready to go to Leighton Buzzard in the bay is fine and the local service ready to return to Buckingham from Platform 3 with the empty horse box and prize cattle van (if they were full they would be at the front of the train) are all OK to set the time at around 3pm, just before they leave. Yet at that time, Set 1, pictured in Platform 1, should be at Marylebone, having passed through over an hour ago non stop.

 

So either the trains had been put in position especially for the photos or the operators had made a complete mess of the timetable!

 

 

Mike Kippax set up the trains for the photo shoot, Tony.

 

I can't believe it's over ten years ago! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Mark C said:

Tony

 

There's a cracking colour photo of 62589 in that condition/livery in this month's Steam World.  Please keep photos of the M&GN end coming...

 

Best regards 

Mark 

 

Thanks Mark,

 

'Please keep photos of the M&GN end coming...'

 

Tomorrow..............................

 

I've painted the D16/3 today, so we'll see what that looks like on the layout.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Wingman Mothergoose]

Good morning Tony, I'm a relative newcomer to RMWeb, and was completely unaware of your thread! am just having a quick look through some of the more recent posts and thought I would say hello!

I was also prompted to say hi after a conversation with our mutual friend Jesse Sim a few weeks ago on the LNER Modellers Facebook group. I don't interact much on here, something I'm going to change over the coming weeks as I have time off work to continue with my layout Richmond. 

[dibateg]

4-4-0's I think are always rather elegant. There were no GC ones around in the era that I'm modelling. I'm not a fan of MR engines, but I built 40646 to run on Heyside as it did run a few specials around the Midlands in the early '60s.

 

Regards

Tony

[Chamby]

13 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

 

What a lovely looking model!

 

Can I please ask how common was this particular livery/lettering combination and in which years would it have been seen?   The reason for asking is that my roster includes a D11 in a similar red-lined black, but with unshaded yellow lettering and carrying a post 1946 number, but I am very dubious of its authenticity as I have not found any photographs showing this combination.  Shaded lettering with unlined black livery seems to have been the norm for the 4-4-0’s in the later LNER years, so my D11 is scheduled for the paint shop - though it does look very attractive as is!

 

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

[micklner]

19 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

What a lovely looking model!

 

Can I please ask how common was this particular livery/lettering combination and in which years would it have been seen?   The reason for asking is that my roster includes a D11 in a similar red-lined black, but with unshaded yellow lettering and carrying a post 1946 number, but I am very dubious of its authenticity as I have not found any photographs showing this combination.  Shaded lettering with unlined black livery seems to have been the norm for the 4-4-0’s in the later LNER years, so my D11 is scheduled for the paint shop - though it does look very attractive as is!

 

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

It would be correct for pre war as in the above photo.

Post war which would be normally be unshaded Lettering , however shaded  was also used , I would be suprised if a D11 would have been lined out post war, ?? . e.g Hornby have done the post war Thompson B1 in lined Red on Black.

[Atso]

1 hour ago, Wingman Mothergoose said:

Good morning Tony, I'm a relative newcomer to RMWeb, and was completely unaware of your thread! am just having a quick look through some of the more recent posts and thought I would say hello!

I was also prompted to say hi after a conversation with our mutual friend Jesse Sim a few weeks ago on the LNER Modellers Facebook group. I don't interact much on here, something I'm going to change over the coming weeks as I have time off work to continue with my layout Richmond. 

 

Welcome to the 'dark side', nice to see you on here. 

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

What a lovely looking model!

 

Can I please ask how common was this particular livery/lettering combination and in which years would it have been seen?   The reason for asking is that my roster includes a D11 in a similar red-lined black, but with unshaded yellow lettering and carrying a post 1946 number, but I am very dubious of its authenticity as I have not found any photographs showing this combination.  Shaded lettering with unlined black livery seems to have been the norm for the 4-4-0’s in the later LNER years, so my D11 is scheduled for the paint shop - though it does look very attractive as is!

 

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

 

Morning Chamby,

 

my old model of Neasden's 2668 Jutland in post-war condition, being piloted by K3 1870. Neasden's D11's were in pretty filthy condition, Jutland carried its Thompson numbering and reinstated full LNER in shaded lettering at this stage. The Neasden locomotives had a long distance ordinary passenger train working to Leicester at this time but it wasn't to last. The whole class were shunted off the London extension at the end of 47 and didn't return until the relocation of the locomotives to Sheffield, ten years latter in 57.

 

Jutland is due to be downgraded to reserve engine when the new B7 locomotive kit becomes available.

 

Photo courtesy of Derek Shore.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Headstock

[Woodcock29]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

I don't believe LNER black locos ever had gold shaded lettering, Bachmann got that wrong, as have Hornby on various occasions. Green locos had gold lettering. Black locos had yellow lettering, shaded until 1946. After 1946 although the standard was plain Gill Sans yellow for black locos, old stocks of shaded yellow lettering were used up.

 

Andrew