Wright writes.....

[cctransuk]

5 minutes ago, jacko said:

presumably they'll have carried out some modelling activities such as ballasting or creating buildings and landscape?

 

Not necessarily, from what I've seen on many YouTube postings, etc.

 

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, ROY@34F said:

Tony ,

     In your post yesterday . about 20 hours ago , one of the 2-8-0 photos was of 02/3  63987  on L.B.. Well if I can  ! , I will  attach a photo of myself on that engine approaching the bank down to Highdyke on the Standby branch , with loaded iron ore tipplers . Taken by Colin Walker in july '63.

I may have posted this photo before . Not sure .

 

Regards , Roy .

 .

What a great picture Roy,

 

Many thanks.

 

It shows that not all O2s which worked the branch were tablet-catching-fitted (was it only the GNR tenders which had these?).

 

What it also shows is that one doesn't have to bother buying transfer sheets for BR numbers or emblems - at least in this case. It also shows that my model of 63987 might not be dirty enough!

 

And, what's the disc to the right of the picture, and the gadget by the track to the left?

 

Anyway, some further shots which I hope bring back memories.......

 

 

At Grantham not long before the shed closed.

 

 

And at Retford in happier times. 

 

 

Also at Retford, at the flat crossing. It was a Retford (36E) loco at the time. 

 

Please (all) respect copyright restrictions.

 

And two more pictures of my 63987.....

 

 

You look to be taking a rest.

 

 

 

Did Geoff Haynes make it dirty enough?

 

I hope you and Pat are keeping safe.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[Clive Mortimore]

42 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Clive,

 

that has nothing to do with my post.

 

 

I was simply rejecting the idea that there was no such thing as good or bad railway modelling, as expressed in an abstract concept. That may be popular, but  ignores practical reality. For example, ditch the abstract and poor running is bad modelling, whatever way you spin it.

I strive to have good running, despite my recent video of Pig Lane. I also enjoy making my own models. I have fun with my train set.

 

If the geezer next door has all RTR and his train set runs badly compared to my preceived ideals but he is still having fun then he is an equal.

 

If the geezer the other side of me has a model railway of a real location, all stock has been built by him and nothing ever goes wrong and is having fun then he is my equal.

 

We all set our own standards and they should be our own and not forced on others.

[Northmoor]

36 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I would agree - but what about the guy who runs RTR trains on RTL track, and spends most of his time tweaking DCC functions?

 

.... not that there is anything wrong with that third option, but I find it hard to identify the modelling element in such activities.

 

John Isherwood.

If tweaking functions allows them to program and control their trains so that they operate realistically (with/without sound) I think that certainly constitutes modelling.  As has been stated many times on this thread, realistic operation* is often noticeable by its absence, especially on many club layouts. 

 

*Realistic = approaching, stopping and drawing up to couple to stationary stock, not crashing into it and shoving it 50' down the platform; accelerating away at realistic speeds, not like a racing motorcycle, etc.  Having said that, I recently witnessed, on an exhibited DCC roundy-roundy, one moving train being driven into the back of another moving train.... 

[Headstock]

22 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I strive to have good running, despite my recent video of Pig Lane. I also enjoy making my own models. I have fun with my train set.

 

If the geezer next door has all RTR and his train set runs badly compared to my preceived ideals but he is still having fun then he is an equal.

 

If the geezer the other side of me has a model railway of a real location, all stock has been built by him and nothing ever goes wrong and is having fun then he is my equal.

 

We all set our own standards and they should be our own and not forced on others.

 

Again, not my post Clive.

 

Striving is an admirable quality.

 

I have made no mention of geezers or RTR, nor their standards or equality under the sun.

[Tony Wright]

37 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I strive to have good running, despite my recent video of Pig Lane. I also enjoy making my own models. I have fun with my train set.

 

If the geezer next door has all RTR and his train set runs badly compared to my preceived ideals but he is still having fun then he is an equal.

 

If the geezer the other side of me has a model railway of a real location, all stock has been built by him and nothing ever goes wrong and is having fun then he is my equal.

 

We all set our own standards and they should be our own and not forced on others.

I'd be horrified if any of the correspondents on here were 'forcing' their standards on others. 

 

I'm also not quite sure about the notion of 'equality'. I'll explain; about 12 years ago, I had a hernia operation. Nothing complicated and not life-threatening, but any invasive surgery has risks. 

 

The op' was entirely successful, and I was able to bowl again after a couple of months. What's this got to do with equality? Well, the surgeon was one of a very small percentage of highly-intelligent, highly-gifted and highly-qualified individuals, who have very few 'equals'. 

 

I know this example is tenuous compared with railway modelling, but I make sure my models are painted by the best in the business. Model painters who have few equals. 

 

I also made sure my scenic-side trackwork was made/laid by the best in the business as well. Very few can equal what Norman Solomon achieves. 

 

I don't have the slightest problem with folk deriving pleasure from their modelling. One could argue that those who just assemble RTR stuff have much more fun than those who pore over books and never really assemble anything, as they wait for the final piece of evidence to appear (which never will). 

 

But I don't hold with this idea of 'equality'. If that were the case, I'd have bowled for England!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Tony Wright
typo error

[stewartingram]

53 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Quote

And, what's the disc to the right of the picture, and the gadget by the track to the left?

I think perhaps the "thing" to the left could be the start/finish sign for a tsr?

As for the disc on the right - no idea, though it does look rather like one of those stop/go boards that roadworkers use!

 

Stewart

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by stewartingram

[dibateg]

Thanks for the wonderful selection of 2-8-0 pictures Tony.

 

I always say - there is room for everyone and anything that is creative is good. Some of us just like making engines... Although I have been having a go at laying some track this afternoon. it's not all fixed down yet. I think the last track I made was for Charwelton, although I have done a few odd bits since! Sharp eyed readers will see where the cut in the track is for the lifting section...

 

 

[jwealleans]

Getting back to 2-8-0s, here are a couple from Little Bytham, but back in 1938:

 

Up mineral following an up express.

 

O2 on up mixed goods.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

53 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I'd be horrified if any of the correspondents on here were 'forcing' their standards on others. 

 

I'm also not quite sure about the notion of 'equality'. I'll explain; about 12 years ago, I had a hernia operation. Nothing complicated and not life-threatening, but any invasive surgery has risks. 

 

The op' was entirely successful, and I was able to bowl again after a couple of months. What's this got to do with equality? Well, the surgeon was one of a very small percentage of highly-intelligent, highly-gifted and highly-qualified individuals, who have very few 'equals'. 

 

I know this example is tenuous compared with railway modelling, but I make sure my models are painted by the best in the business. Model painters who have few equals. 

 

I also made sure my scenic-side trackwork was made/laid by the best in the business as well. Very few can equal what Norman Solomon achieves. 

 

I don't have the slightest problem with folk deriving pleasure from their modelling. One could argue that those who just assemble RTR stuff have much more fun than those who pore over books and never really assemble anything, as they wait for the final piece of evidence to appear (which never will). 

 

But I don't hold with this idea of 'equality'. If that were the case, I'd have bowled for England!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Did you have fun bowling?

 

Did you ever achieve 10 wickets for only 6 runs as my Uncle John did?

 

 

Or even 10 wickets for 30 runs as my dads other brother, Charlie did?

 

Both did play for England, not cricket but football in the days when England still had an armature team. 

 

You might or might not have achieved the same level of competitive competence as they had but you still put on your whites.  They enjoyed their cricket like you did/do, then yes you are equals.

 

They weren't too bad when the ball was being thrown at them either.

 

My dad, their older brother wasn't any good at sports, they never considered him anything but equal to them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

11 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Did you have fun bowling?

 

Did you ever achieve 10 wickets for only 6 runs as my Uncle John did?

 

 

Or even 10 wickets for 30 runs as my dads other brother, Charlie did?

 

Both did play for England, not cricket but football in the days when England still had an armature team. 

 

You might or might not have achieved the same level of competitive competence as they had but you still put on your whites.  They enjoyed their cricket like you did/do, then yes you are equals.

 

They weren't too bad when the ball was being thrown at them either.

 

My dad, their older brother wasn't any good at sports, they never considered him anything but equal to them.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course I enjoyed myself when I played cricket Clive, but to compare myself in terms of 'equality' with international contemporaries such as Mike Hendrick or Bob Willis would have been an example of extreme arrogance on my part.

 

And, I have to say, I'm not surprised at your relatives scoring so many runs. If bowlers were 'throwing' the ball at them, they'd never have been out, such would be the plethora of no-balls!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Andy Reichert]

That's a good thing about armatures, they can really put on a spin when you need one.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

At Grantham not long before the shed closed.

 

 

And two more pictures of my 63987.....

 

 

 

Did Geoff Haynes make it dirty enough?

 

 

Evening, Tony,

 

I know you never mind constructive criticism and the pictures of LNER 'O's have reminded me of something I hope you don't mind I've noticed with some of your model photos. The weathering of No.63987 is indeed very realistic - but what about the front number plate?!

 

 

I know you use the Ian Wilson ones for all your locos as the type face and size are spot on. But a dab with the dry weathering brush perhaps? On the prototype, virtually every trace of white paint on the numbers has disappeared under the grime.

 

The same criticism could be levelled at my own BR models, mind you ...

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by LNER4479

[t-b-g]

9 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Evening, Tony,

 

I know you never mind constructive criticism and the pictures of LNER 'O's have reminded me of something I hope you don't mind I've noticed with some of your model photos. The weathering of No.63987 is indeed very realistic - but what about the front number plate?!

 

 

I know you use the Ian Wilson ones for all your locos as the type face and size are spot on. But a dab with the dry weathering brush perhaps? On the prototype, virtually every trace of white paint on the numbers has disappeared under the grime.

 

The same criticism could be levelled at my own BR models, mind you ...

 

 

 

One disadvantage of using transfers compared to etched plates. If you paint an etched plate all over muck colour, you can still see the numbers! 

[Tony Wright]

32 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Getting back to 2-8-0s, here are a couple from Little Bytham, but back in 1938:

 

Up mineral following an up express.

 

O2 on up mixed goods.

 

 

Was it nearly two years ago, Jonathan? When Little Bytham went back 80 years..............

 

Some eight-coupled from that weekend..................

 

 

 

And a 2-6-0, of course.

 

 

 

 

And the LNER's largest eight-coupled loco (unless you include the Garratt, which was really two). 

 

 

 

If nothing else, all these pictures show me how much more has been done on LB since I took them.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

One disadvantage of using transfers compared to etched plates. If you paint an etched plate all over muck colour, you can still see the numbers! 

Ian Wilson's aren't transfers, Tony; they're printed paper.

 

Because of this, the ink can be fugitive, and enamels applied as weathering can cause them to 'bleed'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'd be horrified if any of the correspondents on here were 'forcing' their standards on others. 

 

I'm also not quite sure about the notion of 'equality'. I'll explain; about 12 years ago, I had a hernia operation. Nothing complicated and not life-threatening, but any invasive surgery has risks. 

 

The op' was entirely successful, and I was able to bowl again after a couple of months. What's this got to do with equality? Well, the surgeon was one of a very small percentage of highly-intelligent, highly-gifted and highly-qualified individuals, who have very few 'equals'. 

 

edited

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

Having worked in an operating theater most operations like hernia repairs are done by a junior doctor under supervision of a not so junior doctor, with the consultant lapping up the praise from the patient despite not being in the same room. A surgeons training is see one, do one , then teach one. 

 

When I was a student nurse I was sat in the rest room with one of the orthopedic consultants, he started asking me what I thought about working it theaters. As the conversion progressed I plucked up courage to say as an engineer I treated metal with more respect than the junior doctors did when using tools like hand drills on living bone. Would it be to their advantage if they were shown how to use them in the hospital workshop before they did on a live patient. Realising how far I had pushed the boundaries I was expecting him to be cross with me. No he thought it was a very good idea.

 

The skill isn't the man with the scalpel but the gas man at the head end. I remember a surgeon and an anesthetist having a row and the  anesthetist reminding the surgeon "As fast as you are trying to kill the patient, I am trying to keep him alive." 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Clive Mortimore

[Tony Wright]

27 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 

Evening, Tony,

 

I know you never mind constructive criticism and the pictures of LNER 'O's have reminded me of something I hope you don't mind I've noticed with some of your model photos. The weathering of No.63987 is indeed very realistic - but what about the front number plate?!

 

 

I know you use the Ian Wilson ones for all your locos as the type face and size are spot on. But a dab with the dry weathering brush perhaps? On the prototype, virtually every trace of white paint on the numbers has disappeared under the grime.

 

The same criticism could be levelled at my own BR models, mind you ...

 

 

Thanks Graham,

 

I actively seek out constructive criticism, and you're quite right.

 

However (the inevitable 'however'), not all filthy locos had a filthy front numberplate. Occasionally, the numbers were picked out in white on shed, no matter what the condition of the loco.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In some cases, these locos are withdrawn.

 

Of course, there's always the 'other way round'!

 

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Headstock]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Ian Wilson's aren't transfers, Tony; they're printed paper.

 

Because of this, the ink can be fugitive, and enamels applied as weathering can cause them to 'bleed'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony'

 

Perhaps it is worth varnishing the number plates before cutting them out from the sheet. 

 

A request if you don't mind. Some time back you posted images of all the trains running in the north and southbound sequence on LB. They were somewhat spread out, interrupted and repeat posted over many pages, so often difficult to use as a resource. Would it be possible to post a list of the trains and their usual motive power (not linked to the images) as they run in the north and southbound sequence, just as a useful reference?

 

[ROY@34F]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

What a great picture Roy,

 

Many thanks.

 

It shows that not all O2s which worked the branch were tablet-catching-fitted (was it only the GNR tenders which had these?).

 

What it also shows is that one doesn't have to bother buying transfer sheets for BR numbers or emblems - at least in this case. It also shows that my model of 63987 might not be dirty enough!

 

And, what's the disc to the right of the picture, and the gadget by the track to the left?

 

Anyway, some further shots which I hope bring back memories.......

 

 

At Grantham not long before the shed closed.

 

 

And at Retford in happier times. 

 

 

Also at Retford, at the flat crossing. It was a Retford (36E) loco at the time. 

 

Please (all) respect copyright restrictions.

 

And two more pictures of my 63987.....

 

 

You look to be taking a rest.

 

 

 

Did Geoff Haynes make it dirty enough?

 

I hope you and Pat are keeping safe.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thanks for your reply and all the photos of 3987 , certainly brings back what seems like more carefree times .

Re. the questions you ask : Well it wasn't a necessity to have a tablet catcher up the branch , and you are right , it was only GNR tenders fitted with them . The 4 engines so fitted were 3929/30/31&32 . All 4 were right hand drive , low running plate with short travel valves , side window cabs , and I think all had the B1 boilers and therefore 02/4 class . Have I got that right ?

     The gadget to the left of the tender is a "stop board" with a lamp in it . though it doesn't seem like it . When coming back to Highdyke with loaded wagons it was a requirement to stop there and the guard would pin down half the wagon brakes pretty tight , as the engine and brake would never hold them down the 1 in 40 bank . he would then ring a bell near the trackside close to the brake van , and wait for the signalman to give a couple of rings back for us to proceed , signalled to us by the guard . That's what I am watching out for in the photo I reckon . There is another photo of the same time in "Tracks Through Grantham" thread under "Grantham engines /The 02s " , but Colin Walker was stood at track level looking up at the tender and the guard at the top busy with his work . I don't think I'd spotted him at that point ! 

The disc up the embankment on the right of the engine I think has been stuck there to help drivers of left hand drive engines , as in this case , where to stop .

You will no doubt notice the lamp on the front of the engine ! Rules were bent . Not just up the branch neither as I've mentioned before .

I got the date wrong in my earlier post . It was actually saturday April 6th , 1963 . (I still have my diary for that , my last heartbreaking year) . I was rostered all the week on that job with Driver George Coy , but we had 63931 mon. , tues &fri. I was put on a different job wed. & thurs. Interestingly on a diesel railcar diagram (I think there was teething problems with them) . I was on 61392 both days and went from Grantham to Lincoln and on to Retford , and back by the same route . I had three different drivers each day , but stayed with the engine all the time . An unusual arrangement !

Thanks again for your photos Tony . Pat and I are quite well thanks , as I hope are Mo and yourself .

 

Regards , Roy 

[Tony Wright]

24 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony'

 

Perhaps it is worth varnishing the number plates before cutting them out from the sheet. 

 

A request if you don't mind. Some time back you posted images of all the trains running in the north and southbound sequence on LB. They were somewhat spread out, interrupted and repeat posted over many pages, so often difficult to use as a resource. Would it be possible to post a list of the trains and their usual motive power (not linked to the images) as they run in the north and southbound sequence, just as a useful reference?

 

I'll do it tomorrow, Andrew.

 

I'll just list the sequence. It did appear in my Crowood book some time ago, but it's been fine-tuned, amended and altered since then.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Ian Wilson's aren't transfers, Tony; they're printed paper.

 

Because of this, the ink can be fugitive, and enamels applied as weathering can cause them to 'bleed'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Would acrylics work? Or a coat of varnish first? Or weather them with an artists watercolour pencil, used dry? I do think a variety of finishes would look better than having them all sparkling clean.  

 

 

[richard i]

In the spirit of showing lockdown productivity, some modeling for you. These are 2d laser cut from a file JCL shared, except I drew up the alterations to make the brakes. 247 or perseverance bogies. Roofs rolled by Jim and other bits scratch built. 

 

roofs only placed on in case it all comes unstuck in the next couple of days. It should not, but just in case. Interior might need talking too. 

Richard

 

 

[96701]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Doug,

 

Programming a chip? Turning the back EMF on or off? Changing the start voltage? Tuning a chip? CVs?

 

What are these mysteries? 

 

As with DCC's propaganda, I just have two wires! One goes to one side of a loco's motor, and the other to the opposite side. I turn a knob and off it goes..........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have DCC available to me. It does mean that I don't have to have isolating sections. This is important because I would like eventually to have an engine shed capable of taking at least 4 locos on each of its 3 roads. One can also (if one can be bothered) set different locos up differently so that they are different to drive, you know, slower acceleration, deceleration, different top speeds. 

 

This means that one could easily end up driving the locos which  have singular characteristics which is a different experience to the speed of the loco being dependent on just the motor or gearing. It isn't really propaganda, it is just horses for courses.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

The best thing to do would be to post up examples of both, then people could make up their own minds without offending anybody else. Otherwise, its so abstract a statement, it doesn't mean anything.

 

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Are these mutually-exclusive John?

 

What about scratch-built (kit-built) trains running on hand-built track? 

 

Or RTR everything? Where the guy/girl just does it for fun? Not that I don't derive a great deal of fun from my own modelling. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

6 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I would agree - but what about the guy who runs RTR trains on RTL track, and spends most of his time tweaking DCC functions?

 

.... not that there is anything wrong with that third option, but I find it hard to identify the modelling element in such activities.

 

John Isherwood.

 

6 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Please note - at no point did I suggest that anyone was a better modeller than anyone else.

 

The point that I was making - and it is simply my opinion - is that the increasingly popular activity of running RTR trains on RTL track, and confining most of one's time to fiddling with expensive electronics, is not my idea of railway modelling.

 

As has been said, though - each to their own.

 

John Isherwood.

 

The overnight (my time) conversations have addressed all these points quite comprehensively, so all I'll add is that the point I am making is that, in my opinion, no facet of railway modelling is inherently "better" than any other. Sure, we all have (and express) our preferences but that is like saying "I prefer red to green" or "I prefer coffee to tea". It doesn't mean that red is better than green or that coffee is better than tea.

 

That's all.