RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted May 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Headstock said: When incapacitated and feeling a bit glum, I was inspired by Rowanj (John) and his amazing thread, his adventures with North Eastern carriages and brown paint. It got me of my bum and finish of the BZ I started months ago. Seen in two-tone lock down economy primmer and finished finish, almost. With the previous discussion about teak finishes, I would just like to say how much I like the finish on that. A very nice "painted teak brown" finish rather than a representation of varnished wood, it really does look right. 6 7 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CXW1 Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 I'm a bit dubious about posting my first attempt at LNER teak on here given the lovely examples that others have posted, but in the spirit of showing each other what we've been up to, here goes. The carriage is an old Ian Kirk model that I butchered about 30 years ago and I'm just using it for a bit of practice before I start on something else. The carriage was originally painted maroon and has been stripped down and repainted. I started with Halfords white primer and then built up various yellows, oranges and brown enamels - the browns were mixed from whatever I could find in my box of paints. The teak grain was painted on with a fairly thick flat brush using thinned down Burnt Umber oil paint (or perhaps it was Van Dyke brown). I'm not too concerned about the accuracy of the actual carriage or the level of detail because it was just an old thing that I've used for some practice and messing around with techniques. The colour probably isn't as 'red' to the naked eye as the photograph suggests but I'm OK with it as a first go. Cheers Chris 21 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark C Posted May 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Headstock said: Due to unwellness, I haven't been able to do any painting since last October, banned from dangerous particles. Now I'm back, appropriate that I should return with a big block of wood, not teak and a Quint of a different nature. I only build things, so I can slosh some paint about. You beat me to it!! I'm currently building two of these - I bought the second because I liked the first kit so much. You might think that given the long mouldings (bodysides, solebars, truss rods) that it could be difficult to build squarely - not so. I was going to substitute the buffers for Dave Franks' version too, but the kit buffers look really good (fiddly, but good). Mine will be finished in 60's British Railways condition. There's a useful photo in June's Model Rail showing one with a runner as described in the kit's instructions. Elsewhere, also as a result of lockdown, I have been marrying Parkside's BR 24.5t mineral wagon bodies with the underframes from their 21t hopper wagons (with only slight modifications). The mineral wagon is an early kit and the later underframes (especially the brakegear) are that much more refined. At this rate I'm going to have to lay some track to store all this new stock - two end-to-end Quints are 17" long... Mark 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Mark C said: You beat me to it!! I'm currently building two of these - I bought the second because I liked the first kit so much. You might think that given the long mouldings (bodysides, solebars, truss rods) that it could be difficult to build squarely - not so. I was going to substitute the buffers for Dave Franks' version too, but the kit buffers look really good (fiddly, but good). Mine will be finished in 60's British Railways condition. There's a useful photo in June's Model Rail showing one with a runner as described in the kit's instructions. Elsewhere, also as a result of lockdown, I have been marrying Parkside's BR 24.5t mineral wagon bodies with the underframes from their 21t hopper wagons (with only slight modifications). The mineral wagon is an early kit and the later underframes (especially the brakegear) are that much more refined. At this rate I'm going to have to lay some track to store all this new stock - two end-to-end Quints are 17" long... Mark Good evening Mark, Yes, they are big b*****s, carriage sized, but a really nice kit. You may get there before me, I have three more Quints to paint, one being an example of 'cross kitting', to produce the steel bodied version. There is also, one LNER Boplate and one ex MOD/NER Boplate, four plate wagons, one trestle and five double bolsters. I shall be taking my time, hopefully with a few nice diversions thrown in. Edited May 21, 2020 by Headstock spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark C Posted May 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2020 28 minutes ago, Headstock said: Good evening Mark, Yes, they are big b*****s, carriage sized, but a really nice kit. You may get there before me, I have three more Quints to paint, one being an example of 'cross kitting', to produce the steel bodied version. There is also, one LNER Boplate and one ex MOD/NER Boplate, four plate wagons, one trestle and five double bolsters. I shall be taking my time, hopefully with a few nice diversions thrown in. Hello I'd like to see your steel bodied version and how you tackled it. I'll post some WIP photos of mine tomorrow... Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted May 21, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, t-b-g said: I can answer one of your questions Tony. Had Roy still been around, the locos would still have been unfinished. Towards the end of his life, he had totally lost his confidence in his ability and rather than do a job less well than he used to, he would rather not do it at all. So he would sit and look at things, pick them up and put them down and do almost nothing. His hands had started to be unsteady and eyesight was so bad that he couldn't tell a straight line from a curved one any more due to the thickness of his glasses. In many ways, it was sad to see somebody with his previous skill and ability struggle like that. Looking at the prototype J17, The boiler bands on the first two are almost invisible. On the third one, you can just see the one ahead of the dome but the others can hardly be made out. Thanks Tony, I, too, saw the demise in Roy's confidence due to failing faculties. I suppose this is an inevitability awaiting us all. I know I've built my 'best' model - years ago. That's not to say it couldn't be bettered (far from it) but it was the 'happy equation' of experience balancing out diminishing abilities. There were probably several 'best models' (which is grammatically-daft, I know), built at around the same period of time (around the turn of the century and into the noughties), but during the teens of this century, I know my experience (which is always growing) cannot balance my diminishing faculties (which are growing at a faster rate than my experience!). The J17 is evidence of this; where I was prepared to fudge something rather than do it properly (thankfully, I 'saved' it due to correct, critical comments). 'Saved' it might be, but my soldering isn't as neat as it once was. By way of an illustration of what I mean, using A1s I've built down the years........ This is the oldest DJH I own which I've built, now over 30 years old. Previous ones I'd built, I'd painted myself and were for customers. Once I got to know Ian Rathbone, the limitations of my painting were cruelly-exposed. Thus, he painted this one. When Stoke Summit hit the exhibition trail in the mid-'90s, I built several A1s for use on it. Including these....... They now see service on Little Bytham.............. Including ALCAZAR. Ian Rathbone did all the painting of these. As he continued to do into the current century. I just kept on building A1s............................ Including those for friends/customers. I built this one for a friend, but after several years he asked me to sell it for him - which I did. This one was also built for a friend, and has now come back on 'permanent' loan to LB. Ian Rathbone's painting remains consistently-brilliant, though I should have chosen better bogie wheels. Though not as crude as Bachmann's or Hornby's, the term 'should do better' is apposite. I'll change them on 60156. I'd often build up to four A1s at any one time - three for customers and one for me! Ian then would batch-paint them. I still keep on building A1s, but recent jobs have now been painted by Geoff Haynes............... There are variations in the rendition of BR Brunswick green - as, I imagine was the case on the real thing. Geoff's painting is also excellent. And so, to the 'latest' A1, or the latest painted one ........................... In my defence, this one had been started, by a now-deceased modeller. I made it go, and finished off the bodywork. I don't think it's as good as my earlier A1s, despite Geoff's painting. I suppose, over a period of time, 'consistency' is the watchword. I hope the locos illustrated show that, but it'll be an inevitable decline from now on. There are other A1s on Little Bytham which I've made, but the above represents a selection. I suppose my motivation to carry on making models (not just A1s) is that I still can. My eyesight (though pestered now by older-age floaters) is still good enough for me to be able to thread handrail pillars, my hands don't shake and my stamina is still adequate. Though slightly 'puddled' at times, my mental faculty is still standing up (though that's for others to decide!). Nobody knows exactly how much time they have left, and my intention is to carry on for as long as I can. Building things is much more important to me than operating my railway. Indeed, since the lockdown, it's hardly been used! Regards, Tony. 21 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY@34F Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I'm glad you mention the variation in the BR green Tony . I've often thought some of your engines are of a strange shade of colour to what I remember . I'll not say which . Just my own view . The other topic of ageing , unsteady hands etc. I can certainly identify with . Just have to be grateful to be beyond the biblical three score years and ten and enjoy what we can do . I feel blessed to be able to remember the last golden years of the everyday bustle of steam , and being a small part of it . Keep well . Regards , Roy . 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted May 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Tony, I, too, saw the demise in Roy's confidence due to failing faculties. I suppose this is an inevitability awaiting us all. I know I've built my 'best' model - years ago. That's not to say it couldn't be bettered (far from it) but it was the 'happy equation' of experience balancing out diminishing abilities. There were probably several 'best models' (which is grammatically-daft, I know), built at around the same period of time (around the turn of the century and into the noughties), but during the teens of this century, I know my experience (which is always growing) cannot balance my diminishing faculties (which are growing at a faster rate than my experience!). The J17 is evidence of this; where I was prepared to fudge something rather than do it properly (thankfully, I 'saved' it due to correct, critical comments). 'Saved' it might be, but my soldering isn't as neat as it once was. By way of an illustration of what I mean, using A1s I've built down the years........ This is the oldest DJH I own which I've built, now over 30 years old. Previous ones I'd built, I'd painted myself and were for customers. Once I got to know Ian Rathbone, the limitations of my painting were cruelly-exposed. Thus, he painted this one. When Stoke Summit hit the exhibition trail in the mid-'90s, I built several A1s for use on it. Including these....... They now see service on Little Bytham.............. Including ALCAZAR. Ian Rathbone did all the painting of these. As he continued to do into the current century. I just kept on building A1s............................ Including those for friends/customers. I built this one for a friend, but after several years he asked me to sell it for him - which I did. This one was also built for a friend, and has now come back on 'permanent' loan to LB. Ian Rathbone's painting remains consistently-brilliant, though I should have chosen better bogie wheels. Though not as crude as Bachmann's or Hornby's, the term 'should do better' is apposite. I'll change them on 60156. I'd often build up to four A1s at any one time - three for customers and one for me! Ian then would batch-paint them. I still keep on building A1s, but recent jobs have now been painted by Geoff Haynes............... There are variations in the rendition of BR Brunswick green - as, I imagine was the case on the real thing. Geoff's painting is also excellent. And so, to the 'latest' A1, or the latest painted one ........................... In my defence, this one had been started, by a now-deceased modeller. I made it go, and finished off the bodywork. I don't think it's as good as my earlier A1s, despite Geoff's painting. I suppose, over a period of time, 'consistency' is the watchword. I hope the locos illustrated show that, but it'll be an inevitable decline from now on. There are other A1s on Little Bytham which I've made, but the above represents a selection. I suppose my motivation to carry on making models (not just A1s) is that I still can. My eyesight (though pestered now by older-age floaters) is still good enough for me to be able to thread handrail pillars, my hands don't shake and my stamina is still adequate. Though slightly 'puddled' at times, my mental faculty is still standing up (though that's for others to decide!). Nobody knows exactly how much time they have left, and my intention is to carry on for as long as I can. Building things is much more important to me than operating my railway. Indeed, since the lockdown, it's hardly been used! Regards, Tony. The same with Buckingham Tony. I have run a few trains "solo" just to keep the switch contacts polished and to stop everything seizing up but even though I am very keen on the operational side of things, it has always been more fun when there is more than one person, especially with the block bells. Now if I had the "Automatic Crispin" up and running that would be another story! As a mere youngster of 60, I hope that my skills, even if I am not going to get any better now, are on a plateau but I know the only way from here is down! It is a matter of keeping on the plateau as long as possible. It does take me longer than it used to because it can sometimes take me a few tries before I cut or solder something as well as I can and I have to check more often with a square or a ruler when I used to be able to tell by eye if something was straight and true. My biggest problem is not the modelling but putting things down and losing them. They are usually right in front of me when they turn up, having spent 30 minutes searching everywhere else. I bet I am not alone either! The main thing for me is that I still enjoy all aspects of the hobby. From woodwork, electrical work, building track, signals, scenery, locos, carriages or making anything, I can really switch off from the rest of the world at the workbench. Perhaps best of all is the social side. The very good friends, those I see less often but are part of a wider, looser circle and the new people that I get to meet at exhibitions, or places like Missenden. As long as that carries on, I will be quite content as long as whoever ends up looking after me allow me scalpels and soldering irons! 10 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, ROY@34F said: I'm glad you mention the variation in the BR green Tony . I've often thought some of your engines are of a strange shade of colour to what I remember . I'll not say which . Just my own view . The other topic of ageing , unsteady hands etc. I can certainly identify with . Just have to be grateful to be beyond the biblical three score years and ten and enjoy what we can do . I feel blessed to be able to remember the last golden years of the everyday bustle of steam , and being a small part of it . Keep well . Regards , Roy . Good evening Roy, I know both Ian Rathbone and Geoff Haynes have experimented with several tints/shades of BR green. I can put two locos side by side, both painted by the same person, and there'll be differences, despite their both, nominally, being BR green. Geoff has changed his colour recently, to make it slightly-less 'olive'. But, which is 'right'? When Humbrol used to do their excellent range of authentic railway colours, their BR green was different from Railmatch's interpretation. Precision's was different again. I've been told that when the real things were painted, it was often up to the guy who mixed the paint as to exactly which colour might appear. Another factor is photography. Though I have two high-end, professional Nikon digital cameras, even though they share the same lenses, their rendition of colour (with the same light source) is different. Subtle, but different. Anyway, the finish both professional painters achieve is brilliant. And, as for RTR; have you placed a BR green Hornby A3 against as BR green Bachmann A1 at all and compared them? There's a profound difference. Regards, Tony. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I know I've built my 'best' model - years ago. Tony, Would you maybe quantify what you think is actually poorer with your later builds? I'm sure you'll pick them out as all builders know what they cut corners on etc (I speak from experience!), but genuinely these all look of exceptionally consistent standard. The only thing that jumps to me are the slightly war weary cylinder drain pipes on the very last one! Is it also the case that over those 30 years your perceptions of quality, mistakes and standards have become higher and more critical? Cheers, Alan 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Roy, I know both Ian Rathbone and Geoff Haynes have experimented with several tints/shades of BR green. I can put two locos side by side, both painted by the same person, and there'll be differences, despite their both, nominally, being BR green. Geoff has changed his colour recently, to make it slightly-less 'olive'. But, which is 'right'? When Humbrol used to do their excellent range of authentic railway colours, their BR green was different from Railmatch's interpretation. Precision's was different again. I've been told that when the real things were painted, it was often up to the guy who mixed the paint as to exactly which colour might appear. Another factor is photography. Though I have two high-end, professional Nikon digital cameras, even though they share the same lenses, their rendition of colour (with the same light source) is different. Subtle, but different. Anyway, the finish both professional painters achieve is brilliant. And, as for RTR; have you placed a BR green Hornby A3 against as BR green Bachmann A1 at all and compared them? There's a profound difference. Regards, Tony. Hi Tony I totally agree with your comments regarding the different shade of BR green on the RTR models. I enclose a photo I took about a week ago which I think proves the point you are making, In the photo there are three different variation of Brunswick Green amongst the five models . Nearest is a standard Bachmann RTR A2, followed by a RTR Hornby A4, the third locomotive is a Bachmann/ G King A2/3 Conversion which had a complete respray by Gareth at Replica Railways. He mixed two different variations of green to achieve this shade which I think is one of the best, then the next is a standard Hornby RTR A3. As you say the shade have subtle differences but they are all slightly different. I will add all the locomotives in the photo have had two coats of Johnson's Klear which again slightly alters the shade of green it is applied to. Regards David Edited May 21, 2020 by landscapes Additional Information 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: And so, to the 'latest' A1, or the latest painted one ........................... In my defence, this one had been started, by a now-deceased modeller. I made it go, and finished off the bodywork. I don't think it's as good as my earlier A1s, despite Geoff's painting. I suppose, over a period of time, 'consistency' is the watchword. I hope the locos illustrated show that, but it'll be an inevitable decline from now on. There are other A1s on Little Bytham which I've made, but the above represents a selection. I suppose my motivation to carry on making models (not just A1s) is that I still can. My eyesight (though pestered now by older-age floaters) is still good enough for me to be able to thread handrail pillars, my hands don't shake and my stamina is still adequate. Though slightly 'puddled' at times, my mental faculty is still standing up (though that's for others to decide!). Nobody knows exactly how much time they have left, and my intention is to carry on for as long as I can. Building things is much more important to me than operating my railway. Indeed, since the lockdown, it's hardly been used! Regards, Tony. Good evening Tony, it's the stripey cylinders. I don't know if 60119 had stripey cylinders, did A1's have stripey cylinders ? If I put my thumb over the cylinders the rest of the locomotive suddenly looks like a typical Wright et al. A1. It's one of those things that often looks quite odd on a 4 mm scale locomotive, unless the stripes are super fine. My own impression is that the A1's had black cylinders, I notice your other models of A1s also have black cylinders. If the stripes are prototypical, perhaps they could be toned down to such an extent that they are less visible. There is no doubt that your A1's are a high water mark in railway modelling in general. If they are the best thing that you will ever produce, so what, now you're merely excellent rather than superb. Despite the hoo-ha over boilers and fireboxes on your J17, there's not much going wrong there. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY@34F Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 54 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Roy, I know both Ian Rathbone and Geoff Haynes have experimented with several tints/shades of BR green. I can put two locos side by side, both painted by the same person, and there'll be differences, despite their both, nominally, being BR green. Geoff has changed his colour recently, to make it slightly-less 'olive'. But, which is 'right'? When Humbrol used to do their excellent range of authentic railway colours, their BR green was different from Railmatch's interpretation. Precision's was different again. I've been told that when the real things were painted, it was often up to the guy who mixed the paint as to exactly which colour might appear. Another factor is photography. Though I have two high-end, professional Nikon digital cameras, even though they share the same lenses, their rendition of colour (with the same light source) is different. Subtle, but different. Anyway, the finish both professional painters achieve is brilliant. And, as for RTR; have you placed a BR green Hornby A3 against as BR green Bachmann A1 at all and compared them? There's a profound difference. Regards, Tony. Yes I agree with what what you say Tony , I think the Bachman engines are better than the Hornby in recent years . But a coat or two of Johnsons Klear brings the colour a lot better on the Hornby engines . I therefore think both brands are acceptable . It is the olive shades that you refer to that particularly jars with me . The old Humbrol 104 , I think it was , of years ago looked good I thought . That must have been in the 1960s and 70s . I rebuilt a tender front about 20 years ago for a Hornby A3 and trying to find a green that looked right took some time . I settled on a Precision GWR pre , or maybe post , 1928 green , I can't remember off hand , and have used it ever since if I need to . I think the only engine I've actually sprayed green myself is my Proscale A3 I built , gosh it must be 40 years ago or more . Oh I did also spray my A2 , a Wills kit I made when they were first introduced in the 60s . Regards , Roy . 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 8 hours ago, CXW1 said: I'm a bit dubious about posting my first attempt at LNER teak on here given the lovely examples that others have posted, but in the spirit of showing each other what we've been up to, here goes. The carriage is an old Ian Kirk model that I butchered about 30 years ago and I'm just using it for a bit of practice before I start on something else. The carriage was originally painted maroon and has been stripped down and repainted. I started with Halfords white primer and then built up various yellows, oranges and brown enamels - the browns were mixed from whatever I could find in my box of paints. The teak grain was painted on with a fairly thick flat brush using thinned down Burnt Umber oil paint (or perhaps it was Van Dyke brown). I'm not too concerned about the accuracy of the actual carriage or the level of detail because it was just an old thing that I've used for some practice and messing around with techniques. The colour probably isn't as 'red' to the naked eye as the photograph suggests but I'm OK with it as a first go. Cheers Chris CXW1 That is brilliant really for a first effort. The panels that are brown possibly just contrast a bit too much? I've also had that problem - its not so obvious when the coats are wet! Andrew 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Woodcock29 Posted May 22, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2020 On 30/04/2020 at 08:41, St Enodoc said: She doesn't bother now, I assume. Bolster wagons - here are some of my recent efforts, please don't compare them with Headstock's work! I don't think I've posted these on here before? A Cambrian Quint I built the other year that's now been loaded with 60ft rail and therefore needs extra support from a secondhand NE single bolster. I know the Quint needs weathering, particularly the floor planks - but the load is still removable. Some loaded timber wagons for Gavin Thrum's Spirsby layout. Two NE single bolster I bought second-hand recently that have been converted from P4 to OO - I can here some cringing! I only noticed I hadn't painted the plastic card above the coupling mounts when I saw the photo! A David Geen NE double bolster A Chivers LMS double bolster. Andrew 14 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said: Bolster wagons - here are some of my recent efforts, please don't compare them with Headstock's work! I don't think I've posted these on here before? A Cambrian Quint I built the other year that's now been loaded with 60ft rail and therefore needs extra support from a secondhand NE single bolster. I know the Quint needs weathering, particularly the floor planks - but the load is still removable. Some loaded timber wagons for Gavin Thrum's Spirsby layout. Two NE single bolster I bought second-hand recently that have been converted from P4 to OO - I can here some cringing! I only noticed I hadn't painted the plastic card above the coupling mounts when I saw the photo! A David Geen NE double bolster A Chivers LMS double bolster. Andrew Good Morning Andrew, Your wagons look great. However, the way you have loaded your Quint and runner is dangerously illegal and wouldn't be allowed out of the yard. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CXW1 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Woodcock29 said: CXW1 That is brilliant really for a first effort. The panels that are brown possibly just contrast a bit too much? I've also had that problem - its not so obvious when the coats are wet! Andrew Andrew, many thanks for the feedback - I agree with you. I think there was too much contrast in the base colours on each panel. More subtlety is required and it will probably be a case of trial and error before I end up with something that I'm happy with. I couldn't remember the name of the stuff I used to thin-down the oil paint when I posted the picture yesterday, but it is Windsor and Newton Liquin from the local art shop. It seems to give a decent satin finish. Not my idea - I think I saw someone else on RMWeb use it a few years ago. Cheers Chris Edited May 22, 2020 by CXW1 typo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 10 hours ago, Dr Al said: Tony, Would you maybe quantify what you think is actually poorer with your later builds? I'm sure you'll pick them out as all builders know what they cut corners on etc (I speak from experience!), but genuinely these all look of exceptionally consistent standard. The only thing that jumps to me are the slightly war weary cylinder drain pipes on the very last one! Is it also the case that over those 30 years your perceptions of quality, mistakes and standards have become higher and more critical? Cheers, Alan You're very kind, Al, Thank you. The last A1 is 'inferior' on a few counts, but, as I say in my defence, it's not all my work. Its drivers are old-fashioned Romfords, with two too many spokes (only noticeable when stationary) and the bogie wheels are also old, and clumsy. In fairness, my 60116 has the same drivers - all that was available back then. Though not too evident from side-on, the cab does no rake-in enough below the eves (this is a problem with DJH A1/A2 cabs unless they're modified before being erected). The handrail pillars are clumsy in comparison as well. I think one (inevitably) becomes more perceptive of quality (or the lack of it), mistakes and standards as experience is gained. Whether (in my own case) that means 'improvements' is a moot point. Again, in my own case, it's significant that loads of my earlier efforts at loco-building (from 40+ years ago) have long gone - sold-on and replaced by something better. Such is the case with my original scratch-built Thompson Pacifics. I think perception (and with that, observation) is the key word here. Many modellers look, but don't actually see. But, does that matter? If pleasure is derived, even through 'ignorance', then I'm nobody to judge on that. It's just that, through experience, as I've observed more, I've become less-tolerant of my own failings. Yet, as the J17 has shown, I thought I could get away with a fudge. I'm glad I couldn't! Regards, Tony. 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Headstock said: Good Morning Andrew, Your wagons look great. However, the way you have loaded your Quint and runner is dangerously illegal and wouldn't be allowed out of the yard. Andrew Please tell me more as I know little of the requirements for loading wagons. Then I can correct it after I've weathered the floor planks. Andrew 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, CXW1 said: Andrew, many thanks for the feedback - I agree with you. I think there was too much contrast in the base colours on each panel. More subtlety is required and it will probably a case of trial and error before I end up with something that I'm happy with. I couldn't remember the name of the stuff I used to thin-down the oil paint when I posted the picture yesterday, but it is Windsor and Newton Liquin from the local art shop. It seems to give a decent satin finish. Not my idea - I think I saw someone else on RMWeb use it a few years ago. Cheers Chris Winsor (not Windsor) and Newton's thinners for oil paint used to be refined linseed oil (I'm going back 56 years ago now!). Or, 'English Distilled Turpentine' - definitely not turps substitute. One thing I also used to use was Winsor and Newton's 'Winton' picture varnish . Applied over Humbrol enamels with a sable, it dried to a very nice clear sheen. It's described on the bottle (which I still have!) as 'This colourless Varnish, a solution of Synthetic Resin in purified Petroleum Spirit, is the ideal modern finish for varnishing oil paintings. It dries quickly to a clear film which has no tendency to bloom or crack'. Those models I still have to which it was applied (some ancient carriages) have worn very well. Whether such stuff is available still, I have no idea. Regards, Tony. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Quote the way you have loaded your Quint and runner is dangerously illegal I think what Andrew means is that the load on the Quint should be central, to equalise the load on each bogie and prevent excessive swing at the end where the load projects. That's going to give you overhang at each end, so you need a runner at each end as well. I'm not aware of any LNER loading books online, but Barrowmore MRG make a number of BR era loading instructions available including one for long and projecting loads. I don't believe the basics changed much from the Grouping era. 2 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, jwealleans said: I think what Andrew means is that the load on the Quint should be central, to equalise the load on each bogie and prevent excessive swing at the end where the load projects. That's going to give you overhang at each end, so you need a runner at each end as well. I'm not aware of any LNER loading books online, but Barrowmore MRG make a number of BR era loading instructions available including one for long and projecting loads. I don't believe the basics changed much from the Grouping era. Ok thanks Jonathan I've actually got another NE single bolster spare so can use that at the other end. Andrew 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Woodcock29 said: Andrew Please tell me more as I know little of the requirements for loading wagons. Then I can correct it after I've weathered the floor planks. Andrew Good morning Andrew, looking at the Quint first. If the load was long enough, it would be required to be attached to all five bolsters. You would be seeking to minimize the overhang, not extend it by ignoring one of the bolsters so that it looks cool. I can't quite tell if the load comes out to the full width of the stanchions, If it does, that's fine, as the securing chain can just go over the top. However, it must be attached to the shackles not the stanchions as you have it. The latter are adjustable to the height of the load and are strong enough to resist the tightening of the chain. The stanchions will just bend and the chain will slacken. The Quint has fixed stanchions, If the load is not wide enough to be held by the stanchions, then the securing chain must be wrapped around the load to prevent it from spreading. Under no circumstances would an overhanging load be attached to a runner when secured to a bogie bolster. When a single or double bolster is being used as a runner the rules are quite clear, The bolster must be removed and stowed so that the load is clear to move free of the runner as the train corners. If it was attached as you have it, you could damage the load, damage the bolster or even derail the train. Finally, with a flexible load as provided, the overhang would be required to be chained around, to stop the load from spreading. It is highly unlikely that your load would make it around the first corner it encountered. Supposing it did, it is so badly attached to the Quint, there would be a good chance of the load shifting for and aft and spreading in a dangerous fashion. I'll get back to you with some figures on maximum allowable overhangs etc when I get a chance. Nice to know you haven't permanently attached the load to the wagons. Edited May 22, 2020 by Headstock clarification. 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 23 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said: Ok thanks Jonathan I've actually got another NE single bolster spare so can use that at the other end. Andrew With regard to Jonathan's comments, a load would only be required to overhang at both ends of a bogie bolster if an overhang at one end proved to be excessive. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Mark C said: Hello I'd like to see your steel bodied version and how you tackled it. I'll post some WIP photos of mine tomorrow... Mark Good morning Mark, apologies for the late reply, I had to find the photo. The cross kitting is not really that exciting. The BR bogie bolster D, is in effect a direct continuation of the steel bodied LNER Quint. I think that the steel bodied version came out in 47 or 48. It's a matter of getting the right version of the BR bogie bolster D, with the LNER diamond frame bogies. You will also need to replace the BR style bolsters with LNER ones. I got mine from a Quint that was modified into a Boplate. The kit is of interest, as unlike the wooden bodied quint, the steel sides come in to halves that require joining, I did this off the model in the flat, not a big deal really and easy to hide the joint. An interesting little detail of the prototype, is that the LNER, ever on the hunt for cost savings, equipped them with second hand split spoked wheels from scrapped wagons. Not a great picture in undercoat, but it shows most of the important details. Edited May 22, 2020 by Headstock off not of 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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