jwealleans Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Clem said: I've got an isinglass 3-D kit for one of the D246s but I just can't see how I can get the glazing looking OK so I'll be looking to cut and shut a couple of Kirks where I'll be able to flush glaze it, more realistically. Morning Clem, I see Andrew has picked up on this interesting comment as well. I'm working on one of his D274 BTL kits at the moment by way of trying them out and the glazing fits into a rebate at the back of the window so it's not as deeply recessed as a Kirk. Ian Kirk himself has said that were he doing the range again he'd do the same. You obviously don't flush glaze a wooden Gresley carriage, so do you mean that the glazing on the isinglass is not set back far enough or have you found another problem which I haven't yet reached? I'm only just at the teaking stage with mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Headstock said: I would be interested in your opinions on the Isinglass dia. 246, it sounds like you have the kit. The fact that you favour the Kirk is................interesting. Good morning Andrew. Thanks for asking me that question as I've just got the Isinglass 3-D kit out again. I think I'll have a go at it next but I'll only use the sides and possibly the ends. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how to approach it - what glue to use and the big question as mentioned in my previous post, how to glaze it. With Kirk coaches, I have a method, which though tedious, works very well with a reasonably good result. I suppose I may have to use a similar method using one of the glazing glues to try to achieve a similar result. The Kirk kits have a tapered lead in to the windows which allows a push fit, reinforced by the smallest smidgen of solvent (not enough to cause fogging). I don't see myself using the kit's roof which comes in two sections (I'll use an MJT one) and for the under frame/bogies I may either a) use a Hornby donor or b) use an MJT floor with ABS bogies. The sides do need quite a bit of cleaning up, particularly some of the windows. To be honest, if etched sides were available, I'd have built a couple already such is the prevalence of this diagram on the Grantham-Nottingham-Derby line. Anyway, here's a photo of the parts, if it helps. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 hour ago, jwealleans said: Morning Clem, I see Andrew has picked up on this interesting comment as well. I'm working on one of his D274 BTL kits at the moment by way of trying them out and the glazing fits into a rebate at the back of the window so it's not as deeply recessed as a Kirk. Ian Kirk himself has said that were he doing the range again he'd do the same. You obviously don't flush glaze a wooden Gresley carriage, so do you mean that the glazing on the isinglass is not set back far enough or have you found another problem which I haven't yet reached? I'm only just at the teaking stage with mine. Morning Jonathan, Yes of course I don't strictly flush glaze Gresley teaks, it's just that I put the glazing in from the front and it does sit a little way back but closer to flush compared to placing glazing the back, if that makes any sense - see D210 below. In my Isinglass kit, there doesn't seem to be a rebate of any useable nature at the back of the windows. (see below). I wonder if he's improved the kits since I received this, some time ago. Can I also ask what glue you used to put the kit together with? Cheers, Clem. 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2020 10 hours ago, Clem said: Oh, and like you I have a fear of heights. It's dogged me all my life and even cost me a day's train-spotting at Crewe in January 1959, But that's another story. Same here. This took me a while to do: 8 hours ago, t-b-g said: I have used phosphor bronze wire, nickel silver wire, even brass wire for pick ups (the brass works OK but wears very quickly) but recent locos have had Beryllium Copper, which is ultra springy. Nasty stuff, B-C. Take care when working with it... 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 Regarding Isinglass 3D-printed rolling stock kits, I've now built two items. The first was a GE section BTK 'shorty', given to me to assess. This must have been about four years ago; maybe more. It ended up with a most-pronounced bow! I used superglue to put it together, and added MJT/Comet components to complete it. Such was the 'roughness' of the finish, I used rattle can 'filler' primer to try to disguise this; without success! The roof was in two sections, and hiding the joint was very difficult. I made no attempt to flush glaze it, resulting in a teak version of 'Bayonet'! Even as just a 'layout coach', it was unacceptable, so I gave it away to a friend. At least he could use the bogies and underframe in future......... In fairness, the printing technique used by Andrew Edgson has improved an incredible amount in more recent times. The recent 'Pigeon Van' is much, much better in terms of the surface finish. How I built this is featured in the latest issue of BRM. The camera has cruelly revealed the patchy Pressfix loading data. 6 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Clem said: In my Isinglass kit, there doesn't seem to be a rebate of any useable nature at the back of the windows. (see below). I wonder if he's improved the kits since I received this, some time ago. Can I also ask what glue you used to put the kit together with? Blimey yes, mine is certainly ahead of that both in quality of print and design - there's a clear rebate behind each window (but not droplights or ends) to glaze into. I have been taking pictures but I don't seem to have included the inside of the sides. I'll try to do something today. I superglued mine but all four corners needed some filling. I've also used the central lavs to allow bracing pieces across the body which has helped it stay square and rigid. Edited May 25, 2020 by jwealleans 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 9 hours ago, bbishop said: I haven't done much modelling recently. A month ago I was volunteering six days a week with the London Ambulance Service - this is now down to one day a week. During lockdown I have been working on the South Western Circle's photographic collections, from which I have selected an image of the most handsome Pacific tank in the country, Robert Urie's H16 class and known as the "Green Tanks". The image is out of copyright, obviously, but please respect our ownership. Bill A massive tank, Bill, I built a model of one some little time ago for a friend....... An old Millholme kit - a bit chunky, but I think it captures something of these Feltham locos. Geoff Haynes painted it. Regards, Tony. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, polybear said: Same here. This took me a while to do: For me it's not the fear of the height but the fear of hitting the ground should I fall. Nonetheless I've walked the glass floor on the Toronto CN tower, the Tokyo tower and Tower Bridge, and sat on the edge seats against the full height windows in the New York World Trade Centre (before it was destroyed by terrorists). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, jwealleans said: Blimey yes, mine is certainly ahead of that both in quality of print and design - there's a clear rebate behind each window (but not droplights or ends) to glaze into. I have been taking pictures but I don't seem to have included the inside of the sides. I'll try to do something today. I superglued mine but all four corners needed some filling. I've also used the central lavs to allow bracing pieces across the body which has helped it stay square and rigid. Yes I see what you mean. The rebates in your kit are well pronounced. Thanks Jonathan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, jwealleans said: Blimey yes, mine is certainly ahead of that both in quality of print and design - there's a clear rebate behind each window (but not droplights or ends) to glaze into. I have been taking pictures but I don't seem to have included the inside of the sides. I'll try to do something today. I superglued mine but all four corners needed some filling. I've also used the central lavs to allow bracing pieces across the body which has helped it stay square and rigid. Yes I see what you mean. The rebates in your kit are well pronounced. Thanks Jonathan. 30 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Regarding Isinglass 3D-printed rolling stock kits, I've now built two items. The first was a GE section BTK 'shorty', given to me to assess. This must have been about four years ago; maybe more. It ended up with a most-pronounced bow! I used superglue to put it together, and added MJT/Comet components to complete it. Such was the 'roughness' of the finish, I used rattle can 'filler' primer to try to disguise this; without success! The roof was in two sections, and hiding the joint was very difficult. I made no attempt to flush glaze it, resulting in a teak version of 'Bayonet'! Even as just a 'layout coach', it was unacceptable, so I gave it away to a friend. At least he could use the bogies and underframe in future......... In fairness, the printing technique used by Andrew Edgson has improved an incredible amount in more recent times. The recent 'Pigeon Van' is much, much better in terms of the surface finish. How I built this is featured in the latest issue of BRM. The camera has cruelly revealed the patchy Pressfix loading data. Thanks for showing your experience with the earlier Isinglass kits. Sorry - this seems to have got posted before I finished it. What I was going to say was that the Gresley BTK really doesn't pass muster, but yes the pigeon van is much better. This helps to put things in context. I may spend a little time on this D246 but I'm not going to invest too much in it. I'd love one of the etched brass side kit manufacturers (MJT, Bill Bedford or Comet) to produce a D246 that would be my preferred solution. Edited May 25, 2020 by Clem 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Barry O said: I bought a previously built loco from Tony a while ago, A NuCast A5 I have now repainted it into BR Lined black, it has some new frames above the front pony truck. The NER 4-6-2T loco (A6 and A7) are very different by comparison.. A Little Engines kit, this one has home made plunger pickups which work very well. of course the Great Central did produce the 2-6-4T as well as the A5. A Zeppelin - scratchbuilt by my late father from Brass sheet. It has a MG Sharp gearbox with a D13 driving that through a neoprene tube,,, None of these use Nickel Silver pick ups.. these are antiques Tony! Phosphor Bronze wire has been available for a long time, it is more "springy" than Nickel Silver and acts a a self lubricant. (quoted from an engineering materials web site " These alloys are notable for their toughness, strength, low coefficient of friction, and fine grain". I keep hearing squeaks from the few Nickel Silver pick up fitted locos I have. These will be changed this week. Baz Do you remember bringing the A7 to Little Bytham, Baz? Might it be worth fitting the correct, 12-spoke bogie wheels? I built one for a friend a couple of years ago, but I can't find the pictures for some reason. Archie, if you're reading this, would you mind posting your pictures of it, please? Each to their own regarding pick-ups. Nickel silver for me, every time; and no squeaks. You should have heard some of Tony Geary's fitted with phosphor bronze wipers! Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, grahame said: For me it's not the fear of the height but the fear of hitting the ground should I fall. Nonetheless I've walked the glass floor on the Toronto CN tower, the Tokyo tower and Tower Bridge, and sat on the edge seats against the full height windows in the New York World Trade Centre (before it was destroyed by terrorists). Hi Grahame, ha ha ha! Not a chance! I struggle with stairs greater than 2 floors high, particularly if they are open. I'm staying on the ground in my workshop. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Tony Wright said: Do you remember bringing the A7 to Little Bytham, Baz? Might it be worth fitting the correct, 12-spoke bogie wheels? I built one for a friend a couple of years ago, but I can't find the pictures for some reason. Archie, if you're reading this, would you mind posting your pictures of it, please? Each to their own regarding pick-ups. Nickel silver for me, every time; and no squeaks. You should have heard some of Tony Geary's fitted with phosphor bronze wipers! Regards, Tony. Wheel change currently not on the list of things to do. I am not worried by it and you can't see the spokes when it is moving. Baz 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Clem said: Yes I see what you mean. The rebates in your kit are well pronounced. Thanks Jonathan. Thanks for showing your experience with the earlier Isinglass kits. My pleasure, Clem, Though building that shorty BTK was not a pleasure! Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Clem said: Good morning Andrew. Thanks for asking me that question as I've just got the Isinglass 3-D kit out again. I think I'll have a go at it next but I'll only use the sides and possibly the ends. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how to approach it - what glue to use and the big question as mentioned in my previous post, how to glaze it. With Kirk coaches, I have a method, which though tedious, works very well with a reasonably good result. I suppose I may have to use a similar method using one of the glazing glues to try to achieve a similar result. The Kirk kits have a tapered lead in to the windows which allows a push fit, reinforced by the smallest smidgen of solvent (not enough to cause fogging). I don't see myself using the kit's roof which comes in two sections (I'll use an MJT one) and for the under frame/bogies I may either a) use a Hornby donor or b) use an MJT floor with ABS bogies. The sides do need quite a bit of cleaning up, particularly some of the windows. To be honest, if etched sides were available, I'd have built a couple already such is the prevalence of this diagram on the Grantham-Nottingham-Derby line. Anyway, here's a photo of the parts, if it helps. Good morning Clem, thanks for the photo. To be fair to Isinglass, I think you have a much earlier and cruder version of the kit, one probably contemporary with Tony's BTK. That said, you've still paid for something that you may not feel is good enough to use. 1 hour ago, Clem said: Morning Jonathan, Yes of course I don't strictly flush glaze Gresley teaks, it's just that I put the glazing in from the front and it does sit a little way back but closer to flush compared to placing glazing the back, if that makes any sense - see D210 below. In my Isinglass kit, there doesn't seem to be a rebate of any useable nature at the back of the windows. (see below). I wonder if he's improved the kits since I received this, some time ago. Can I also ask what glue you used to put the kit together with? Cheers, Clem. Your Kirk windows are a work of art. 3 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jwealleans said: Blimey yes, mine is certainly ahead of that both in quality of print and design - there's a clear rebate behind each window (but not droplights or ends) to glaze into. I have been taking pictures but I don't seem to have included the inside of the sides. I'll try to do something today. I superglued mine but all four corners needed some filling. I've also used the central lavs to allow bracing pieces across the body which has helped it stay square and rigid. Good morning Jonathan, how did you get on with the ends on the non gangway stock? I was discussing this with Rowanj (John), the cork in a bottle fit of the ends, seems to produce a most odd appearance, seen in Tony's BY when compared to the Chivers version behind it. Rather than fit flush between the sides, as you would expect, the ends seem to extend the sides, giving a pronounced gap between the beading and the corner of the carriage that results in an overhang of the bufferbeam. I wondered if this was something that you had encountered and if so, how did you deal with it? Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors? Edited May 25, 2020 by Headstock add question mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Theakerr said: Any chance of a bigger picture. That is a most interesting alternate and avoids the 'tail' issue Not without taking the loco apart! Sorry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, polybear said: Nasty stuff, B-C. Take care when working with it... It was purchased at a show from a reputable trader with a "You should try this for pick ups" and had no health warning. What does it do and what precautions should I take? Just looked it up on t'internet! I should be OK as long as I just use solid wire and don't heat it enough to make it give off fumes and don't inhale beryllium dust. Or maybe I go back to using other wire! Edited May 25, 2020 by t-b-g Add more info 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2020 Tony Not all people are highly allergic to Beryllium. The dust (which could be given off if you broke a fluorescent light tube can be very dangerous to some people. They didn't have a warning on them. I will stick with the phosphor bronze..my original Triang Princess still works with its original pb pick ups. Baz 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Headstock said: Good morning Jonathan, how did you get on with the ends on the non gangway stock? I was discussing this with Rowanj (John), the cork in a bottle fit of the ends, seems to produce a most odd appearance, seen in Tony's BY when compared to the Chivers version behind it. Rather than fit flush between the sides, as you would expect, the ends seem to extend the sides, giving a pronounced gap between the beading and the corner of the carriage that results in an overhang of the bufferbeam. I wondered if this was something that you had encountered and if so, how did you deal with it? Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors? 'Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors?' Top image on page 15 of BR General Parcels Rolling Stock, A Pictorial Survey by David Larkin, Bradford Barton, 1978. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold zr2498 Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2020 On 23/05/2020 at 20:35, Fishplate said: Hi Dave I came across this route learning video for Grosmont to Battersea Junction on YouTube. See 12 mins 56 secs. I knew there was a bridge like that on the line. Hope this helps solve your question. Best Regards John Thanks John A great film to watch as it is just up the road from me in Guisborough. Even though I have been on the line to get a view out of the cab is excellent. The bridge deck uses standard timbers rather than way timbers (which are no longer used except for very short spans). I see there are check rails and timber / tarmac walkways added. Useful stuff. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Wire pick-ups: I don't dispute the relative virtues and drawbacks of the different metals, but I do find that the precise shapes and lengths of pick-ups, including the key question of whether the general line of the wire is tangential (good) or radial (probably noisy) to the wheel, with suitable rounding of the contact area, make big differences to results. I've never used phoshor-bronze wire (nor beryllium copper) but I seem to have achieved qiuet pick-ups. Of course, I may be driving local dogs and bats round the bend... My late 1970s chemistry teacher had quite a cavalier attitude to danger, although he did point out that beryllium, if ingested, makes all of your hair fall out, amongst other unpleasant effects. Presumably not a problem if you don't eat or inhale the stuff, or its dust, don't dissolve it and then drink or absorb the solution, and so long as you add another hand washing session to the twenty five hand washes daily that you're already doing. For thick injection moulded or 3D printed coach sides with flat backs and thus no provision for anything like flush glazing, has anybody tried taking a really well sharpened wood chisel of slightly greater width than the depth of the windows, and drawing this several times over the inside face of the side so as to shave thickness off the area where the glazing later has to fit? I know that those with fancy equipment could mill out material, but the chisel might work as a method for the ever cost-conscious Messrs. Bodget and Scarper, a firm with which I am proud to be associated. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2020 One method of pick ups I saw quite a few years ago was used, maybe invented by a chap I knew from the North East. His name, possibly not the right spelling, was Rees Scott. He was in front of Thompson's End at a show and we got talking, as we do, when he he mentioned that he had built a few ex NER locos but had nowhere to run them so he had brought a couple to the show in the hope of finding an EM layout to "try them out". They looked great, ran as well as any model locos I have ever seen and we kept them until he left as they ran better than some of Malcolm's. I asked him how he got them to run like that and one of his tricks was to make pick ups from nickel silver wire but he hammered it flat on an anvil. He had work hardened the metal to make it even more springy and it was so thin, you could bend it to give as much pressure as you like on the back of the wheel and it didn't create the same braking as round wire. Sadly Rees was taken way too early by Motor Neurone Disease and our friendship was a short one but he was a very skilled modeller and it was a shame I, as well as others, didn't get the chance to see more of what he could do. One day I will try his method. Perhaps even on Valour. There is plenty of room for pick ups on her. 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, gr.king said: Wire pick-ups: I don't dispute the relative virtues and drawbacks of the different metals, but I do find that the precise shapes and lengths of pick-ups, including the key question of whether the general line of the wire is tangential (good) or radial (probably noisy) to the wheel, with suitable rounding of the contact area, make big differences to results. I've never used phoshor-bronze wire (nor beryllium copper) but I seem to have achieved qiuet pick-ups. Of course, I may be driving local dogs and bats round the bend... My late 1970s chemistry teacher had quite a cavalier attitude to danger, although he did point out that beryllium, if ingested, makes all of your hair fall out, amongst other unpleasant effects. Presumably not a problem if you don't eat or inhale the stuff, or its dust, don't dissolve it and then drink or absorb the solution, and so long as you add another hand washing session to the twenty five hand washes daily that you're already doing. For thick injection moulded or 3D printed coach sides with flat backs and thus no provision for anything like flush glazing, has anybody tried taking a really well sharpened wood chisel of slightly greater width than the depth of the windows, and drawing this several times over the inside face of the side so as to shave thickness off the area where the glazing later has to fit? I know that those with fancy equipment could mill out material, but the chisel might work as a method for the ever cost-conscious Messrs. Bodget and Scarper, a firm with which I am proud to be associated. Hi Graeme My mate Jim (jimwal on here) used a rebating tool on the rear of some LMS coaches to reduce the thickness behind the windows. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: 'Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors?' Top image on page 15 of BR General Parcels Rolling Stock, A Pictorial Survey by David Larkin, Bradford Barton, 1978. Regards, Tony. Thanks Tony, I have been looking through my photographs and couldn't find one. The question is, was there a batch built like that, or was it a later alteration? Could you also confirm if the photo in 'Larkin' is a dia 120 or one of the others, is it dated? Many thanks, in anticipation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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