Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

How he's arranged the smokebox door fastening is obviously daft! 

 

 

You must admit Tony, the front handle looks a bit ify. I'm sure there's a photo.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Headstock
remove images

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

You must admit Tony, the front handle looks a bit iffy. I'm sure there's a photo.

And one of the lamp brackets is leaning as well!

 

I'm obviously the father of a rather dim (at the time) 15 year old.

 

Like father, like son....... 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Woodcock29]

Correct - the tender in the picture with J10 5137 is rivetted. 5137 is a 1946 number applied 31 March 1946. According to Yeadon 5137 got tender 5869 in May 1946 and it is a Pollitt 4000 gallon tender as described by 61579 above. The DJH tender is a Pollitt tender as far as I can make out. The tender with 5137 is the first Pollitt tender I think I've seen with the curved ends to the side coal plates, most appear to have the straight ends. According to RCTS the tenders from passenger 4-4-0s when fitted with the coal guards got the curved ends and some of these were transferred to J10s, tender 5869 coming from D6s before being paired with J10s.

 

As Tony Gee says it's possible that some J10s had water pickup in the early years of the London extension but I don't imagine they retained this for long. RCTS makes no mention of this, neither does Yeadon and I can't see any photographic evidence in Yeadon.

 

I still think your best bet Jesse is to use the DJH tender and fit coal guards with curved ends rather than use the Bachmann tender- I would save that for another GC loco of some form rather than removing the water pick up gear which includes all the box arrangements on the rear deck. I like the Bachmann J11 4000 gallon tenders and have two spare bodies to use with GC locos in my 'to build' drawer as a number of the earlier whitemetal kits had in-accurate tenders.

 

Here's my DJH J10 built about 3 years ago and previously posted on here. It has the Pollitt 4000 gallon tender but DJH didn't include the rear curve to the valence. 

 

Andrew

Edited June 14, 2020 by Woodcock29

[Headstock]

21 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

And one of the lamp brackets is leaning as well!

 

I'm obviously the father of a rather dim (at the time) 15 year old.

 

Like father, like son....... 

 

Nothing of the sort Tony. It just looks as if it has got bent and wants gently tweaking to line up with the center line of the dart.

[ROY@34F]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks Tony,

 

When you find it, I look forwards to the it appearing as a model on LB, perhaps with a suitably burnt smoke box door. Although, I have seen a locomotive trundling around an exhibition layout with the smokebox door ajar, I'm not sure if a prototypical photograph would be found for that one.

It wouldn't steam very well would it .

 

Roy.

[Headstock]

8 minutes ago, ROY@34F said:

It wouldn't steam very well would it .

 

Roy.

 

It's on a model railway, it must be true.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Erichill16 said:

Regarding the J10, I think the size of the cab side cut outs are not the same. Look at their relationship with hand rails in the pictures. This may effect the look of the tender.

regards Robert 

 

You are not wrong!

 

The whole J9/10 family is probably getting close to the GNR J3/4 lot in terms of complexity.

 

There were basically 4 GCR Classes, 9B,D E and H. B and E became LNER J9 and D & H became J10. The H had a bigger cab with a deeper cut out.

 

There were many other variations in cab roof length, Belpaire & round top fireboxes and superheating and the J9s ended up in Scotland with some of them having North British Railway chimneys and one ended up with a side window cab. Then they got new chimneys and had different safety valves.

 

Plus one got rebuilt and looked more like a J11 than a J10.

 

Then you got all the tender variations.

 

Apart from that, they were all pretty standard and looked alike. 

 

One big "giveaway" for a Pollitt tender that makes them easier to spot is that they originally didn't have steps at the rear, in front of the bufferbeam. Many, if not all, got them added later but they were fixed behind the original valance and you could clearly see the shape of the curved rear end of the valance with the vertical plate of the footstep behind it. The photos I have show the front step "set in" like a Robinson one and the rear one vertical. Another little wrinkle to look out for.

 

The one good thing is that there are so many variations, that it is very difficult for anybody to say that a particular combination of features never happened!   

Edited June 14, 2020 by t-b-g

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

This might be a bit naughty of me, but when it’s running along the railway, you can’t really notice it. If it isn’t right, I think I’ll just live with it, I’m happy with it, even if it is only 50-70% right. 
 

i may get chewed up and thrown out of Wright Writes for that,  totally understandable

I can't for the life of me envisage a situation where you'll be thrown out of Wright Writes, or any thread.

 

It's your railway, with your model running on it. If you're happy to live with its limitations (incorrect tender) then that's up to you.

 

That said, I think it'll niggle with you. It's a perversity of human perception in my opinion. When we're ignorant of a fault on a model, it's not a problem, but once we know.................... And, on threads like this, we're told. 

 

As your modelling standards get higher (and they're already getting there), there'll come a time when a J10 with a too-big tender won't be acceptable.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Denbridge]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Some wonderful observations on J10s.

 

Many thanks.

 

The few I saw were at the end of their days on the CLC, pottering around Chester Northgate. I was too young (or not bright enough) to note which tenders they towed.

 

 

This one is underlined in my 1957 Ian Allan abc Combined Volume. Definitely a smaller tender.

 

When my elder son was 15 (almost a quarter of a century ago!) he asked me if he could build a loco kit. Thus, I handed over a Magna Models J10; very basic, and with no chassis. However, if he messed it up, not much would be lost.

 

He didn't mess it up....................

 

 

 

 

 

Granted, the chances of a Manchester-allocated J10 (or any J10) shunting on Little Bytham would be remote (though other ex-GC locos did appear from time to time), but it's such a pretty little loco that it's used occasionally. 

 

It's certainly lacking in detail (rivets, brakes, etc) but it's definitely a J10. 

 

I assisted him in scratch-building the frames, but the rest his all his work. He extended the height of the side coal plates on the tender. 

 

How he's arranged the smokebox door fastening is obviously daft! 

 

When I look back to what I was making at 15 years of age, this is light years beyond that.  

 

 

Having opened and closed many full size smokebox doors,  in preservation. I can assure you that there is nothing daft about that position.

[Jesse Sim]

That’s it, I’ve had it, I’m not going to sit here on this thread and get told what I’ve done is wrong!!.....  

I thank you all for the help and correction, I may need to order some bits from DJH, as the coal rails on the tender I have here have been obliterated to nothing....apparently a model doesn’t like being dropped on the floor. I’ll keep it as it is until I get some spares, as I am rather short of goods locos for BJ. 

 

Does anyone have Yeardons register of J10’s? And can tell me an appropriate number for a J10, that could have worked the ECML?

Edited June 14, 2020 by Jesse Sim

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said:

 

Does anyone have Yeardons register of J10’s? And can tell me an appropriate number for a J10, that could have worked the ECML?

 

What period, Jesse... and any preferred shed?

 

Edit:  Are you familiar with the website www.shedbashuk.blogspot.com ?   This lists locomotives ‘spotted’ by shed and by date.  It’s a bit counterintuitive but if you search first by the shed index (listed by county) it tells you the date the site was updated with the info for that shed.  You then click on that date to access the data.  It’s a fascinating site with really useful information.  Whilst it doesn’t give full details of everything based at that shed, it does list locomotives that were spotted there on the given date, including those from far and wide that were being fed and watered.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Chamby
Added info

[Jesse Sim]

Just now, Chamby said:

 

What period, Jesse... and any preferred depot?

 

Anywhere from 1935 to 1940 and no particular depot, but something along the ECML. i know they were shedded at Retford in 1923, but not sure how long for. 

[Steven B]

11 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

I can tell you haven't shut many smokebox doors. Why would you even do that, unless you were daft. 

 

At several daft people out there:

https://hmrs.org.uk/stewards/camrys/

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2014/cambrian-colours-for-vale-of-rheidol/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOTO-GWR-CAMBRIAN-RAILWAY-LOCO-NO-5-AT-BARMOUTH-JUNCTION-1922-/362675036499?nma=true&si=Is6RNDRPm%2Bkms%2Bx7krqA17nrevI%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p469896013/h2A176861#h2a176861

 

Looking at pictures, 12 o'clock was common on the Cambrian Railway and not uncommon on narrow gauge locos. Perhaps you'd like to share your knowledge as to why it wasn't common elsewhere?

 

Steven B.

 

 

[Erichill16]

21 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

Anywhere from 1935 to 1940 and no particular depot, but something along the ECML. i know they were shedded at Retford in 1923, but not sure how long for. 

5798 was shedded at Retford from 11/1/37 until 30/1/39.(Yeadon)

I think it had the smaller tender (as DJH kit) RCTS

Regards

Robert

[Chas Levin]

Hello Tony, somewhere around last Autumn I came across this thread in browsing and decided to start reading it from the beginning as it looked very informative and entertaining. I've read a few pages every day since then alongside other reading, and it became quite a habit! Thank you for sharing so much information and photos and in particular, for being so encouraging to less experienced modellers like myself .

As you often ask people to show pictures of their own modelling, here are some of mine - firstly, a D&S ECJS Luggage Brake:

 

 

This is another D&S kit, the Pigeon Brake:

 

 

This is an ABS Models whitemetal 6 plank wagon:

 

 

This is a D&S CLC Brake van:

 

 

And this is my first loco, a DJH J9/10:

 

 

Best regards, Chas

Edited June 14, 2020 by Chas Levin

[Atso]

Good evening all,

 

I can offer nothing further on the accuracy of GCR tenders, but do offer the beginnings of weathering my inaccurate portrayal of Silver Link. The idea is to eventually give the impression of a reasonably clean but hard worked loco.

 

 

 

My apologies for the phone flash photography, I'll try and get some better snaps tomorrow in the sun. The model was airbrushed with a heavily thinned coat of Railmatch roof dirt with a couple of drops of Humbrol Metalcote polished steel add. This was allowed to go touch dry before attacking it with an old brush and white spirit as described in Martyn Welch's book. It's far from finished but it does have that lovely oily metallic look to it in reality.

[MJI]

I am currently on the hunt for quite a few carriages and a few 47s.

 

Using Ebay mainly after clear glazed blue grey Hornby HST stock (TSO TFO TGS to complete my HST set).

 

A few Lima HST Mk3s to make a loco hauled set (cheaper than Hornby and will not be running in same set) will be LaserGlazed.

 

Put silly bids on lots of Lima and Heljan 47s as well, I need 3 minimum.

 

And also 4 more Triang BSKs

 

Firstly prices, £65 for a second hand used Hornby HST trailer WTF! The others doing silly bids and getting what I can.

 

Secondly what am I up to?

 

Got a Hornby scale length HST with 4 carriages so far. Need it complete.

Need a 47 for my stone tipplers.

Need a 47 for my second WR aircon rake.

Need a 47 for my loco hauled HST stock

 

4 BSKs = 2 TSO for GWR150 rake and 2 BG for HST loco set, yes I am going to do the generator car!

 

Trying to have a mad obtaining session to finish 3 sets, make a new one and power a freight train.

 

I suppose with BR having over 500 of them I will have to have at least 5.

 

What is interesting is that mainly RTR but detailed, and older more or less accurate models done up are more cost effective.

[Chamby]

2 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

5798 was shedded at Retford from 11/1/37 until 30/1/39.(Yeadon)

I think it had the smaller tender (as DJH kit) RCTS

Regards

Robert

 

Also: 

5807 - 12/34  to 1/39 (Yeadon)

5808 - 6/34 to 9/38 (Yeadon)

5141 - 12/29 to 1/37 and 7/37 to 11/38 (Yeadon)

 

Shedbash shows 5798, 5807 and 5808 spotted at Retford (GC) 36E on Sunday 20th February 1938.

 

[Northmoor]

40 minutes ago, MJI said:

Got a Hornby scale length HST with 4 carriages so far. Need it complete.

Need a 47 for my stone tipplers.

Need a 47 for my second WR aircon rake.

Need a 47 for my loco hauled HST stock

 

First world problems....? 

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Steven B said:

 

At several daft people out there:

https://hmrs.org.uk/stewards/camrys/

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2014/cambrian-colours-for-vale-of-rheidol/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOTO-GWR-CAMBRIAN-RAILWAY-LOCO-NO-5-AT-BARMOUTH-JUNCTION-1922-/362675036499?nma=true&si=Is6RNDRPm%2Bkms%2Bx7krqA17nrevI%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p469896013/h2A176861#h2a176861

 

Looking at pictures, 12 o'clock was common on the Cambrian Railway and not uncommon on narrow gauge locos. Perhaps you'd like to share your knowledge as to why it wasn't common elsewhere?

 

Steven B.

 

 

 

Good evening Steven B,

 

Looking through the whole collection that you have carefully culled, there is nothing to suggest that it was common on Cambrian/ ex Cambrian locomotives, most images are at 6 O'clock. I can't answer your question, it presupposes something that I don't know to be true. Again I ask, why would you do that, perhaps you have the answer?

Edited June 14, 2020 by Headstock
add question

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

Also: 

5807 - 12/34  to 1/39 (Yeadon)

5808 - 6/34 to 9/38 (Yeadon)

5141 - 12/29 to 1/37 and 7/37 to 11/38 (Yeadon)

 

Shedbash shows 5798, 5807 and 5808 spotted at Retford (GC) 36E on Sunday 20th February 1938.

 

 

The big clue there is that they were at the former GC shed. They were far more likely to have worked East and West along their own GCR route than up and down the ECML. A J10 on the ECML would be a rare beast. It probably happened sometime but I don't ever recall seeing any photos to show one at work on the main line.

[DougN]

On 13/06/2020 at 19:30, Tony Wright said:

Forshortened some what! , 

"

 

This is what it looked like before John painted it.

 

 It's a privilege to now have such a fine model.  "

 

Tony do you happen to know the origin of the chimney- it is a lot finer and it 'as a hole'. The Finney castings though nice are not a patch on the brass one above. 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

Perhaps you'd like to share your knowledge as to why it wasn't common elsewhere?

 

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Steven B,

 

Looking through the whole collection that you have carefully culled, there is nothing to suggest that it was common on Cambrian/ ex Cambrian locomotives, most images are at 6 O'clock. I can't answer your question, it presupposes something that I don't know to be true. Again I ask, why would you do that, perhaps you have the answer?

At 6 o'clock the lever would stay in position under gravity and hold the door closed even if it hadn't been tightened properly. You wouldn't have to hold it up with one hand while using the other to tighten the door either.

 

As the great steam loco engineer L Dante Porta said "Make the easy way the right way".

[Woodcock29]

13 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

That’s it, I’ve had it, I’m not going to sit here on this thread and get told what I’ve done is wrong!!.....  

I thank you all for the help and correction, I may need to order some bits from DJH, as the coal rails on the tender I have here have been obliterated to nothing....apparently a model doesn’t like being dropped on the floor. I’ll keep it as it is until I get some spares, as I am rather short of goods locos for BJ. 

 

Does anyone have Yeardons register of J10’s? And can tell me an appropriate number for a J10, that could have worked the ECML?

Hi Jesse

 

I would suggest just making  solid coal guards for the DJH tender from some brass strip. 

 

Also, as it appears you have a lovely spare Bachmann J11 tender that you pair that with your O4 6190 as that should have a tender with water pickup for mid-late 1930s. Bachmann have paired it with a tender after removal of water pickup and movement further back of the rear coal plate as per the preserved O4 on the GC at Loughborough. On mine I modified the tender substantially to fit Graeme King's resin water pick box arrangement. The Bachmann J11 tender is the best of its GC tenders as it also has the brakes in line with the wheels. Bachmann did regress slightly however in fitting a 'ships wheel' with 8 spokes not 6, which it actually got correct on the self trimming tender with its D11/1!

 

Don't we just love modelling the LNER! I keep telling my GWR mates that there is infinite variety on the LNER because of all the changes to tenders, chimneys, domes, safety valves, lubrication, even cabs etc. The challenge for us is studying the prototype to the nth degree.  At the end of the day we all have models with mistakes but in most instances they remain a secret unless you let on! 

 

Keep up the good work Jesse, I must try to visit you next time I get to Sydney but who knows when that might be? As we are now having the BRMA Convention here in Adelaide next year,  30 Sept - 4th October 2021 I'd suggest putting that in your calendar.

 

Andrew 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Woodcock29
Typo, dates corrected

[DougN]

6 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

As we are now having the BRMA Convention here in Adelaide next year,  7-11th October 2021 I'd suggest putting that in your calendar.

 

Andrew 

Its already in mine!