Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

11 minutes ago, Paul Cram said:

That is some of the most realiatic brickwork on a river bridge I have seen. Which layout is this?

Good morning Paul,

 

Tebay, built by members of the Shipley Club, many years ago.

 

A magnificent achievement.

 

I photographed it for BRM (can't show in here because it was all shot on medium-format transparency) and it appeared in several issues.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Thanks Andrew, now you've pointed it out, I can see clearly that the first carriage is a BT. The train is in one of the North bays at Nottingham Victoria and as such probably either a Mansfield or Pinxton train - or just possibly one of the short lived Sutton-in-Ashfield trains that just lasted a few months in 1956. 

 

Clem,

 

I lost a paragraph off my post above,

 

I was pondering the length of the shadows in the photo, whether this indicated a later service, if you think Mansfield Pixton is the only candidate. The problem being that these later services were not worked by 'GC' sets but a 'GN' articulated set originating in Grantham and terminating back there at the end of the day.

[Clem]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Morning Clem,

 

based on your information, it's likely to be the 1.15 pm service to Mansfield. The train will have worked into Nottingham from Woodford. It will return to Nottingham as the 2.24 pm ex Mansfield and then work the 4.05 pm to Grantham. On returning to Nottingham, it will work ESC to New Basford, with a second gangway set attached.

 

Incidentally, I entirely forgot, I did a breakdown of all passenger sets running on the Grantham Notts Derby lines. Amongst other things, there were three articulated sets operating two round trips per day. One set was the familiar dia 210 combo, the second was a BT(6) - T(8) twin x2, plus CL formation. The third, I initially thought it was a misprint in the CWN's, as it looked like a dia 210 set but with only a five compartment brake. That was until the same typo appeared across different years of the CWN's. Finally, I tracked down a photo, the set is ex GN, BT (5) - CL (2-5) twin x2 and T (10).

That's tremendously interesting and useful information, Andrew. Something I noticed in the Hugh Longworth book that I didn't know about was that a number of the D210 twins were converted so that the firsts were redesignated as thirds so it became a BT(6)-T(7). It makes it a little more complicated to know what was running and where... The BT(6)-T(8) twin - do you know what diagram?

 

Incidentally, you mention the GN set - it wouldn't be this, would it?

 

 

This is on the Annesley dido and I don't have a date. Like mentioned, it's an articulated twin-set Nos E44071E (Brake Third) and E44072 (Composite) built by the GN in 1922 to diagram GN218RR.

 

I've just noticed your comment on the shadows. It looks some time during the afternoon but probably not later than 4pm - more like about 2-15.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Clem

[Headstock]

25 minutes ago, Clem said:

That's tremendously interesting and useful information, Andrew. Something I noticed in the Hugh Longworth book that I didn't know about was that a number of the D210 twins were converted so that the firsts were redesignated as thirds so it became a BT(6)-T(7). It makes it a little more complicated to know what was running and where... The BT(6)-T(8) twin - do you know what diagram?

 

Incidentally, you mention the GN set - it wouldn't be this, would it?

 

This is on the Annesley dido and I don't have a date. Like mentioned, it's an articulated twin-set Nos E44071E (Brake Third) and E44072 (Composite) built by the GN in 1922 to diagram GN218RR.

 

Morning Clem,

 

the 210's lost their first class allocation during the war, as far as I know there was no conversion work required. All regained there first class identity after the war. You already have a photo of the BT (6) - T (8) twin. The image shows a steel set, with the BY at the head of the passenger carriages and behind an A5 tank loco, the BY is noted in the CWN behind this set.

 

The photo of the GN twin looks like one of them, there were two twins in the set prior to their disbandment.

 

Re shadows, the 1.15 pm seem likely in that case, as this was the only service that GC three sets worked to Mansfield.

 

P.s. There were three gangway sets operating on the Grantham line.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Headstock
add shadows and gangway.

[Clem]

16 minutes ago, Headstock said:

You already have a photo of the BT (6) - T (8) twin

Yes, thanks Andrew, I've found it. 69824, at Breadsall.

[Headstock]

35 minutes ago, Clem said:

Yes, thanks Andrew, I've found it. 69824, at Breadsall.

 

That's the one, it would work Grantham Notts one day, put its feet up, go to Derby the next day (the working that the GN set was on the day before) and eventually end up back at Grantham and start all over again. Oddly, the BY seems to have been part of the booked formation, though it picked up and dropped of BZ's and  B's on route.

 

To Clarify a point from earlier, I should have said there were three types of articulated sets involved, not three sets involved. I did work out the numbers of sets in each type, but have forgotten. I don't think that it was more than two sets per type involved in the workings. There were also three distinct non articulated, non gangway types of set (one GC) involved and three gangway sets, two from KX and the third, a GC three set.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Headstock
add info

[Iain.d]

Among the clutter of my work bench is now a completed SR Maunsell 3 coach set in BR Crimson and Cream built from Roxey Moulding kits.  Despite my earlier concerns the paint went on really well. The lining (HMRS transfers) was a bit difficult in that the black line ‘swapped sides’ about 2/3 of the way along, so it took a bit of cutting and fiddling to make it all look one.

 

 

 

 

They’re pretty much as the kits came. The only things I changed were the corridor connecter bellows - the kits come with some foam and a semi rigid housing that I changed for black concertinaed paper – and the glazing, I substituted cut glass for the plastic provided. I built the seats from plastic card and I added a few passengers. I've yet to add the coupling system (hook and bar).

 

I’m pleased with how they have turned out, please excuse my over indulgence of a picture of each one. Not sure how they’ll run, I suspect they’ll need some adjustment though. And they’ll need weathering, but that will be a project in its own right; I need to do some practising first.

 

They’ve taken longer than I expected but like most of us I have had too much on the go at the same time. I’m also nearing completion on two more Hornby/Airfix coach refurbishments using Comet sides. I’ll maybe show those next and I also started another Roxey Moulding set of kits to make a LSWR 3 coach formation.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

[Headstock]

9 minutes ago, Iain.d said:

Among the clutter of my work bench is now a completed SR Maunsell 3 coach set in BR Crimson and Cream built from Roxey Moulding kits.  Despite my earlier concerns the paint went on really well. The lining (HMRS transfers) was a bit difficult in that the black line ‘swapped sides’ about 2/3 of the way along, so it took a bit of cutting and fiddling to make it all look one.

 

They’re pretty much as the kits came. The only things I changed were the corridor connecter bellows - the kits come with some foam and a semi rigid housing that I changed for black concertinaed paper – and the glazing, I substituted cut glass for the plastic provided. I built the seats from plastic card and I added a few passengers. I've yet to add the coupling system (hook and bar).

 

I’m pleased with how they have turned out, please excuse my over indulgence of a picture of each one. Not sure how they’ll run, I suspect they’ll need some adjustment though. And they’ll need weathering, but that will be a project in its own right; I need to do some practising first.

 

They’ve taken longer than I expected but like most of us I have had too much on the go at the same time. I’m also nearing completion on two more Hornby/Airfix coach refurbishments using Comet sides. I’ll maybe show those next and I also started another Roxey Moulding set of kits to make a LSWR 3 coach formation.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

 

Good afternoon Ian,

 

I think that it is rather magnificent to see someone build Maunsell carriages in this day and age. Yours look better than some others that you can buy, especially the toilet windows and your interior paneling shows up a treat.

[Iain.d]

2 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good afternoon Ian,

 

I think that it is rather magnificent to see someone build Maunsell carriages in this day and age. Yours look better than some others that you can buy, especially the toilet windows and your interior paneling shows up a treat.

Thanks Andrew! I was pleased that the interior paneling showed through too.

 

The toilet windows are just old plastic milk bottle materiel cut up and stuck inside the glass. From some of the images I have, some Maunsell's had semi opaque/frosted glass while others had what seemed to be white painted windows.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

[Tony Wright]

26 minutes ago, Iain.d said:

Among the clutter of my work bench is now a completed SR Maunsell 3 coach set in BR Crimson and Cream built from Roxey Moulding kits.  Despite my earlier concerns the paint went on really well. The lining (HMRS transfers) was a bit difficult in that the black line ‘swapped sides’ about 2/3 of the way along, so it took a bit of cutting and fiddling to make it all look one.

 

 

 

 

They’re pretty much as the kits came. The only things I changed were the corridor connecter bellows - the kits come with some foam and a semi rigid housing that I changed for black concertinaed paper – and the glazing, I substituted cut glass for the plastic provided. I built the seats from plastic card and I added a few passengers. I've yet to add the coupling system (hook and bar).

 

I’m pleased with how they have turned out, please excuse my over indulgence of a picture of each one. Not sure how they’ll run, I suspect they’ll need some adjustment though. And they’ll need weathering, but that will be a project in its own right; I need to do some practising first.

 

They’ve taken longer than I expected but like most of us I have had too much on the go at the same time. I’m also nearing completion on two more Hornby/Airfix coach refurbishments using Comet sides. I’ll maybe show those next and I also started another Roxey Moulding set of kits to make a LSWR 3 coach formation.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Wonderful work, Iain,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Jack P]

1 hour ago, Iain.d said:

I also started another Roxey Moulding set of kits to make a LSWR 3 coach formation.

 

Looking forward to seeing updates on this one. The Maunsell 3-set looks amazing!

[Mark C]

Moving steadily on - to show there is progress from the last shot - just need door handles/rails prior to painting.  The ABS range of castings is sorely missed...

 

 

[cctransuk]

21 minutes ago, Mark C said:

The ABS range of castings is sorely missed...

 

Agreed - so many plastic and etched brass kits have spindly, flimsy brakegear that would never have stood up to the tough conditions of the prototype.

 

I always substitute ABS castings - and they add useful weight just where it's needed. My stock won't last forever, though - please, someone take on Adrian's legacy!

 

Regards,

John isherwood.

[Mark C]

3 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Agreed - so many plastic and etched brass kits have spindly, flimsy brakegear that would never have stood up to the tough conditions of the prototype.

 

I always substitute ABS castings - and they add useful weight just where it's needed. My stock won't last forever, though - please, someone take on Adrian's legacy!

 

Regards,

John isherwood.

John

 

You can see where my latest purchase of transfers is headed...!

 

Best regards 

Mark 

 

[Tony Wright]

Tomorrow morning will see some 'filming' for BRM of what I've been doing in lockdown.

 

I'm told it'll go out digitally.

 

The new V2 will feature......................

 

 

Apart from adding bits to the Cartazzi frames, I've done little more.

 

One thing to note is the thin strip of Plastikard, needed to repair the damage to the edge of the middle internal splasher. I was very unsympathetic to the 3D-printed medium when filing to give a bit more space to accommodate the porcine Portescap. I need to be more careful in my working of the stuff, because it's very brittle. One lives and learns! 

 

 No matter, when painted, it'll be invisible. 

 

 

This will feature as well.

 

I've also done more to the Craftsman 36XX; namely adding more beading, handrails and the bunker top. 

 

Showing its age, the kit is supplied with split-pins to represent the handrail pillars; an established practice, which I've used in the past, but a bit old-fashioned today? The problem was that the pre-etched holes to take the split-pins were huge, and finer handrail pillars just dropped straight through. I've thus had to use slightly larger ones (from my donkeys' years old supply). An inevitable compromise...............

[davidw]

42 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Tomorrow morning will see some 'filming' for BRM of what I've been doing in lockdown.

 

I'm told it'll go out digitally.

 

The new V2 will feature......................

 

 

Apart from adding bits to the Cartazzi frames, I've done little more.

 

One thing to note is the thin strip of Plastikard, needed to repair the damage to the edge of the middle internal splasher. I was very unsympathetic to the 3D-printed medium when filing to give a bit more space to accommodate the porcine Portescap. I need to be more careful in my working of the stuff, because it's very brittle. One lives and learns! 

 

 No matter, when painted, it'll be invisible. 

 

 

This will feature as well.

 

I've also done more to the Craftsman 36XX; namely adding more beading, handrails and the bunker top. 

 

Showing its age, the kit is supplied with split-pins to represent the handrail pillars; an established practice, which I've used in the past, but a bit old-fashioned today? The problem was that the pre-etched holes to take the split-pins were huge, and finer handrail pillars just dropped straight through. I've thus had to use slightly larger ones (from my donkeys' years old supply). An inevitable compromise...............

 

Seeing that V2. Will 3D printing become the norm for mainstream manufacturers in the next few years?

I am aware of their use of it in prototyping.

Edited June 18, 2020 by davidw

[JCL]

1 hour ago, davidw said:

 

Seeing that V2. Will 3D printing become the norm for mainstream manufacturers in the next few years?

I am aware of their use of it in prototyping.

 

I think it will depend on cost, print speed (related to cost), scalability and quality. The first two are coming down all the time, and the last is going up as you can see from Mike's V2. It wasn't more than a couple of years ago that a body like that would have cost over $1000 to buy (I remember looking at an article back then). You can buy a printer and the resin to print it yourself for less than that now. Scalability I'd say is down to the company - for all their faults, Shapeways has done a good job of scaling up their process.
 

[Headstock]

9 hours ago, Clem said:

That's tremendously interesting and useful information, Andrew. Something I noticed in the Hugh Longworth book that I didn't know about was that a number of the D210 twins were converted so that the firsts were redesignated as thirds so it became a BT(6)-T(7). It makes it a little more complicated to know what was running and where... The BT(6)-T(8) twin - do you know what diagram?

 

Incidentally, you mention the GN set - it wouldn't be this, would it?

 

This is on the Annesley dido and I don't have a date. Like mentioned, it's an articulated twin-set Nos E44071E (Brake Third) and E44072 (Composite) built by the GN in 1922 to diagram GN218RR.

 

I've just noticed your comment on the shadows. It looks some time during the afternoon but probably not later than 4pm - more like about 2-15.

 

Good evening Clem,

 

A last bit of decal work and lots of varnishing has kept me busy and out of the wet today.

 

I forgot to mention, there were three A5 tank locomotives allocated to work the Dido at the end of 56. They lasted on this service until the end of 58. I had forgotten that a GN twin was allocated to the Dido, it seems to have coincided with the work of the A5 tanks on the service, now I know where it came from. Prior to this, two N7 and a C12 worked the service for a long time , the carriages at one time being GC, one a clerestory push pull I seem to recall.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, davidw said:

 

Seeing that V2. Will 3D printing become the norm for mainstream manufacturers in the next few years?

I am aware of their use of it in prototyping.

I don't know, David,

 

And I'm probably not the bloke to ask. 

 

Having observed some examples of 3D-printing over the last two or three years, the quality of finish is now at a stage where it might well be viable. Some previous examples looked more like a washboard, with all the ridges in evidence. 

 

Mike Trice is going to set up a separate thread regarding his V2; I suppose to test the water. I'm told it takes over a day to print up each body, then there's the extra bits and the finishing.

 

I'm sure as the technology advances, the process will become quicker and costs might well come down. However, I am guessing. 

 

Let's see what Mike says...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Hollar]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know, David,

 

And I'm probably not the bloke to ask. 

 

Having observed some examples of 3D-printing over the last two or three years, the quality of finish is now at a stage where it might well be viable. Some previous examples looked more like a washboard, with all the ridges in evidence. 

 

Mike Trice is going to set up a separate thread regarding his V2; I suppose to test the water. I'm told it takes over a day to print up each body, then there's the extra bits and the finishing.

 

I'm sure as the technology advances, the process will become quicker and costs might well come down. However, I am guessing. 

 

Let's see what Mike says...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Earlier in the week I had my first go at a printed kit - an Isinglass pigeon van made on my portable modelling tray out in the garden.  It went together perfectly, but my level of carefulness increased substantially when I realised that  the resin body was as brittle a sliver of ice.  However, because they snap immediately there is no deformation and they can be glued back together invisibly.  Now for some decisions about how much of the underframe to use.

 

Tone

[thegreenhowards]

11 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Morning Clem,

 

the 210's lost their first class allocation during the war, as far as I know there was no conversion work required. All regained there first class identity after the war. You already have a photo of the BT (6) - T (8) twin. The image shows a steel set, with the BY at the head of the passenger carriages and behind an A5 tank loco, the BY is noted in the CWN behind this set.

 

The photo of the GN twin looks like one of them, there were two twins in the set prior to their disbandment.

 

Re shadows, the 1.15 pm seem likely in that case, as this was the only service that GC three sets worked to Mansfield.

 

P.s. There were three gangway sets operating on the Grantham line.

Andrew,

 

You say that the D.210s had their 1st class reinstated after the war, but I’m pretty sure that the ones used on the Hatfield - Dunstable Shuttle in the ‘50s were declassified. Are you talking about the ones in the East Mids or more generally?
 

Andy

[Headstock]

21 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Are you talking about the ones in the East Mids 

 

Evening Andy,

 

Yes. It's clear from the CWN's that first class was reinstated after the war. Also, photographic evidence shows that some twins had a Gill sans number one applied to the doors on the upper panel, rather than the previous LNER shaded transfers on the lower panel. No evidence of the original number one was visible on those so treated, perhaps this indicates a general overhaul rather than a patching. The carriage numbers remained in LNER style. E prefixes were definitely added, but the numbers remained in LNER shaded transfers for some time, presumably until they ran out of transfers.

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, Hollar said:

Earlier in the week I had my first go at a printed kit - an Isinglass pigeon van made on my portable modelling tray out in the garden.  It went together perfectly, but my level of carefulness increased substantially when I realised that  the resin body was as brittle a sliver of ice.  However, because they snap immediately there is no deformation and they can be glued back together invisibly.  Now for some decisions about how much of the underframe to use.

 

Tone

Good morning Tone,

 

I found exactly the same thing when I built the same kit. 

 

My report was in the last issue of BRM. 

 

I didn't use the resin underframe bits.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

9 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Andy,

 

Yes. It's clear from the CWN's that first class was reinstated after the war. Also, photographic evidence shows that some twins had a Gill sans number one applied to the doors on the upper panel, rather than the previous LNER shaded transfers on the lower panel. No evidence of the original number one was visible on those so treated, perhaps this indicates a general overhaul rather than a patching. The carriage numbers remained in LNER style. E prefixes were definitely added, but the numbers remained in LNER shaded transfers for some time, presumably until they ran out of transfers.

Morning Andrew,

 

The CWN for 1958 shows the Hatfield-Dunstable trains as ‘Twin BS(6)-SL(7)’ which implies a declassified D.210 to me and this is born out by the photos you put on my workbench thread here.

 

Are you saying that these coaches did, in fact, have First Class at this stage? Or maybe that it was reinstated post war, and then declassified again later - maybe when they were cascaded following the introduction of the Mark 1 non corridor stock?

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

For those who didn't see my review of the Isinglass 3D-printed pigeon van in BRM, a selection of pictures....................