Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

25 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

Thanks for your input, the models are very, very old. I think they are a BR Prototype based on a GER design. I have cheated and numbered the as the GER version and used Romford wheels in bearings. I don’t have a OO layout myself so deciding whether it’s the track or not is not easy. The chassis is square,the wheels are ok therefore it must be other people’s trackwork! Mmmmmmmm.

Perhaps it’s time to build layout!
Regards ROBERT

 

 

Robert,

 

you mean a Lowmac not a well wagon. Depending on the layout, the issue may be the length of the wheelbase and the small size of the wheels. Modelers often fit some sort of simple springing or limited compensation on one end of Lowmacs to help them negotiate tighter curves or complicated track work. They are not the best vehicles for dealing with toy train or set track curves.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Headstock

[Arun Sharma]

The problems with ultraviolet light cured 3D print resins are well known but, frequently IMO, ignored or denied. Of the half dozen or so methods of 3D printing, only three are readily used by home printers - Fused Deposition Moulding where a PLA or ABS thread is heated and molten mass deposited along a track and then the process repeated to build height. This tends to work well on slab-sided models but cures leaving stratification lines which are difficult to remove. However FDM models are pretty robust and do not decay and become brittle.

Selectiive Laser Sintering [SLS] models are powder surfaces which are heated by a laser and fused in particular patterns. A fresh layer of powder then covers the fused area and the heating is done again and eventually a model is built up layer by layer with the unused/unheated powder finally being removed. These are quite rare now but were very popular in technical colleges 15 years ago. Because they are produced by laser light, they do slowly denature in white light.

The third form, often called resin printers are technically called SLA [Stereolithography] or DLP [Diode Light Projection] printers. The only real difference is whether the light source that selectively solidifies the surface of a tank of liquid resin is a laser or an LED. These printers produce very smooth surface finishes and are used by many home users and industrial concerns. However, because the resins are light cured, the models continue to cure [whatever the manufacturers say] for some considerable time after printing. In practice, this means these models become brittle. Some protection may just possibly be obtained by painting the model so that the light doesn't get to it but that isn't [in my experience] to be relied upon.

In my opinion, the bottom line is that If you want a 3D printed model to last for as long as an injection moulded model, then the 3D print should only be used as a master for polyester resin, [white-metal and/or lost wax] casting. Such polyester resin castings are generally pretty robust and do not denature in daylight.

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Arun Sharma
error

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, davidw said:

Tony, 

 

Does the Comet chassis have registration marks, and slots like a DJH chassis?

 

Thanks in advance

 

David

David,

 

Comet chassis do not.

 

One gets a drawing suggesting where the various spacers be soldered in place, but there are no registration marks.

 

For assembly, a jig (in my experience) is essential. One can use the simple Comet one (or, in my case, my ancient Jamieson one), jig axles (which can be a bit hit and miss, though I've used them with success), a Poppy'swood MDF one or the far more  sophisticated (and expensive) ones; the last-mentioned, I've never found the need for. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, polybear said:

 

 

Hi Tony,

Do you recall the above incident by any chance?  I do - as Driver of the Up Express in question I still have whiplash As to what the outcome would have been if the loco in question was Mike's excellent resin V2 (complete with Geoff's paintwork) would have been doesn't bear thinking about.

Hopefully Mike is able to identify more robust resin material for manufacture.

Brian

I do, Brian,

 

And, I believe, I was mainly responsible. 

 

Little Bytham (the layout) has seen many prangs, almost always because of me - never the trainset. Running into the rear of another train is very common, and the rake most 'hit up the rear' is the Up full coals; all plastic wagons. Why? Because the road it's in (3) is the usual default position, the entrance to it 'protected' by a crossover pair of points which fire together. The problem is, I forget to return the crossover to 'normal' after I've released a train from the kick-back sidings, meaning road 3 is left set, not the vacant through road.

 

The wagons in the train become sacrificial as it were, and many's the time I've had to collect bits of brake gear and buffers after a prang. They offer, of course, little resistance, which is a good thing. If a train of all-metal carriages was the 'barrier', the results might be different. 

 

Actually, now with a brass buffer beam, I think the new V2 would be quite safe in a collision, though a side-swipe might cause trouble. Since most of the locos which run into the backs of trains are all-metal, the only injury they suffer is a bit of chipped paintwork. 

 

It's a small price to pay for all the fun I've had out of the railway, especially when dear friends are present.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Ray Flintoft]

6 hours ago, landscapes said:

Many Thanks Tony

 

You have a least put my mind to rest, I have ordered A2/2 60501 but wasn't sure if a change of order to 60505 would have been better.

 

With your answer it's now an east decision I will stay with my original choice, and go from there.

 

If all fails I will just keep is as 60501 Era 4 early to mid 1950's.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to explain the differences.

 

Regards

 

David

 

Hello , David ,

         Yes , Tony has described the variations in the class very well . I think you should just bite the bullet & attempt to remove the high  front number plate . I have done this a number of times & with care it can leave no marks .

Incidentally in 1958 no . 60501 was running with the lowered no. plate whilst still carrying the early B.R. badge . I feel that Hornby would have been better doing no. 60505 as the early version & 60501 (or 60502 ) as the later one .

Good luck whatever you decide .

                      Cheers,

                           Ray . 

[Headstock]

A bit of a break from steel carriers. What a shame that Chivers kits are no more. the following are my last ones, They are just out of the paint shop, couplings are still to fit in most cases.

 

An LMS Tube wagon, it will be marshalled empty as part of a Quartet of LMS and LNER tube wagons. Also, a couple of LNER loco coal wagons, they will be loaded so the wooden interior is less of a priority.

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Dear Tony

 

Could you possibly say a bit about your running-in and lubrication procedures, such as they are? Do you run the gearboxes

on the bench before putting them in locos? I'm always a little uncertain about how much (and what type) of lubrication to

add early in the process, and how gently to break locos in during their early running.

 

Al

Good afternoon Al,

 

My procedure for running-in/testing is always the same.

 

The first thing to be done is with regard to the motor/gearbox, whether it's ready-made or not. Once it's assembled (or arrives pre-assembled) I'll place an axle through it (attached to a wheel), with a flat filed on it (in line with the crank on one wheel). This flat engages with the grubscrew on the worm. I'll then bench-test the 'box, testing for sweetness and lack of noise BEFORE any oil is applied. If it's sweet, I'll then oil it (which just makes it even better). If it's noisy/jerky, then adjustments have to me made before any imperfections are 'disguised' by oil. Once happy, and with it oiled, I'll let it run for a few minutes at half power, in both directions. It is an irrefutable law (as, I suppose, all laws are) that whichever way you configure the drive, it'll always run sweeter in reverse! 

 

The next job is to install that driven axle into the frames, and test again - again without oil. Any problems - tightness/noise - can then be eradicated at source. Then it's the other wheels' turn, pick-ups installed and adjusted, and wires taken directly from these to the motor. Then, test again. 

 

Next come the rods, tested under the loco's power. I've seen some claim that a chassis runs perfectly down an inclined plain with the rods on but the drive disconnected, but the moment the drive's fixed, it binds. That's because it's gravity turning the wheels in the first instance, not the motor. Only when I'm happy that all the wheels turn freely and that the rods don't bind do I apply oil; it's simple, model oil, sold in a sort of syringe-type device. I buy it from sellers of tools at shows (or did). 

 

Once happy, I'll let the new chassis run on rollers for about a quarter of an hour each way, at no more than half-power - just to really bed everything in. Last, of course, is the valve gear. 

 

I followed all the procedures above, then let that V2 loose. Top speed is well in excess of 100 (scale) mph, and she'll pull anything behind the tender. As will all the other RA9 locos on LB. I simply will not tolerate a poor-running loco or poor-running stock - noisy, jerky, stuttering, derailing, trains dividing and so on are just anathema! If I won't tolerate such poor performance, why do others? It's no secret about how I build my locos/stock - it's just sound practice which I've learned from others. Was it Newton who said that the only reason he could see so far was because he'd been standing on the shoulders of giants? Please don't think I'm comparing myself to a genius, but I've been lucky enough to have been guided by behemoths in this hobby.  

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told 'Don't worry, that tight spot will disappear with running-in'. No it won't. By the time the tight spot has run-in, the rest of the chassis will have run-out! Why are so many 'blind' to how poorly their railways run? Visually-brilliant creations, often in a far more accurate gauge than the 'crudity' I employ, where locos limp along, derailing everywhere are far too commonplace (or were). Ask any of the Stoke Summit or Charwelton operators and they'll tell you I was openly hostile to them if their operating performances (and their locos/stock) were inadequate.

 

In concluding this 'rant', I would derive no pleasure from having so many marvellous friends over (yourself included) to run Little Bytham if I were constantly having to apologise for poor running.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[Barry Ten]

43 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Al,

 

My procedure for running-in/testing is always the same.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, Tony - much appreciated.

 

May I ask if you apply any lubrication to the motor spindle, at one or both ends?

[mardle]

Just to show that Stoke Summit is alive and well, here is D9013 “The Black Watch” on 1A16 the down Flying Scotsman passing Stoke Box . Apologies for the poor photo quality as I took it on an iPhone as I wanted to post it on a Facebook group where someone had posted a photo of the real loco, train and headboard waiting to leave Kings Cross

[Erichill16]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

 

Robert,

 

you mean a Lowmac not a well wagon. Depending on the layout, the issue may be the length of the wheelbase and the small size of the wheels. Modelers often fit some sort of simple springing or limited compensation on one end of Lowmacs to help them negotiate tighter curves or complicated track work. They are not the best vehicles for dealing with toy train or set track curves.

Thanks, bit of word blindness coming in there.  May try the compensation route but there’s not a lot of clearance under the end platform. Here’s a picture, I’ve got seven so a bit of work to be done. I’m intending to but Vickers light tanks on them once I’ve got the to run ok.

Regards ROBERT

[Tony Wright]

29 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Thank you, Tony - much appreciated.

 

May I ask if you apply any lubrication to the motor spindle, at one or both ends?

Sorry Al,

 

I should have mentioned this. Yes, at both ends of the armature, but sparingly on the end adjacent to the brushes/commutator.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

26 minutes ago, mardle said:

Just to show that Stoke Summit is alive and well, here is D9013 “The Black Watch” on 1A16 the down Flying Scotsman passing Stoke Box . Apologies for the poor photo quality as I took it on an iPhone as I wanted to post it on a Facebook group where someone had posted a photo of the real loco, train and headboard waiting to leave Kings Cross

Pleased to hear the old girl is still up and running. 

 

We at WMRC had a wonderful time down the years taking it all over the place.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Seeing the photograph of the Deltic on Stoke Summit sent me delving into the archives to see if I'd taken a shot from the same position.

 

Not quite, but these are the nearest...............

 

 

 

 

Interestingly, both A2/2s now run on Little Bytham, but the modified Hornby A4 has long since been sold-on. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Chuffer Davies]

47 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

Thanks, bit of word blindness coming in there.  May try the compensation route but there’s not a lot of clearance under the end platform. Here’s a picture, I’ve got seven so a bit of work to be done. I’m intending to but Vickers light tanks on them once I’ve got the to run ok.

Regards ROBERT

The extra weight of the loaded tanks may be all that is needed to make these vehicles run reliably.  I’d try that before going to the hastle of fitting compensation units.  As Tony has said before compensated vehicles are not particularly happy negotiating Peco pointwork (other than the new code 75 bullhead track) so unless you are planning to use finescale pointwork you are best avoiding compensation.

Regards,

Frank

[geoff west]

1 hour ago, mardle said:

Just to show that Stoke Summit is alive and well, here is D9013 “The Black Watch” on 1A16 the down Flying Scotsman passing Stoke Box . Apologies for the poor photo quality as I took it on an iPhone as I wanted to post it on a Facebook group where someone had posted a photo of the real loco, train and headboard waiting to leave Kings Cross

Good to see Stoke Summit is still up and running.

 

Regards,

 

Geoff.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Erichill16 said:

Thanks, bit of word blindness coming in there.  May try the compensation route but there’s not a lot of clearance under the end platform. Here’s a picture, I’ve got seven so a bit of work to be done. I’m intending to but Vickers light tanks on them once I’ve got the to run ok.

Regards ROBERT

 

Robert,

 

As the old Chuffer has pointed out, I wouldn't bother at the current time. Without examining the track that your trying to run it on, it is impossible to find a solution that can be incorporated into your model, when it may be the track that is a bag of ................ Better to design and build your own track. Then you will have complete control of the triad of good running, fouriad, if you count electrics, then a solution that works can be found.

 

They look very nice by the way, I think your wooden decking looks fine, you could have of course, copied the table. The conversion work into proper GE Lowmacs wouldn't have been that hard. Replacement brake handles for example. I actually lost one on the D&S kit, so I filed a new one up from scrap brass, the shape is quite distinctive and gives the wagon that Mac K feel. The roller bearing axle boxes kind of give the game away.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Headstock
Capito L

[Erichill16]

39 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Robert,

 

As the old Chuffer has pointed out, I wouldn't bother at the current time. Without examining the track that your trying to run it on, it is impossible to find a solution that can be incorporated into your model, when it may be the track that is a bag of ................ Better to design and build your own track. Then you will have complete control of the triad of good running, fouriad, if you count electrics, then a solution that works can be found.

 

They look very nice by the way, I think your wooden decking looks fine, you could have of course, copied the table. The conversion work into proper GE Lowmacs wouldn't have been that hard. Replacement brake handles for example. I actually lost one on the D&S kit, so I filed a new one up from scrap brass, the shape is quite distinctive and gives the wagon that Mac K feel. The roller bearing axle boxes kind of give the game away.

Thanks for that. The track I can see them run on was iffy, one layout with handmade track and the other layout used set track points. A friend of mine took them home and tried them on his layout which I believe had decent track and said he couldn’t get them to run. I’m hoping to use the new Peco bullhead track when a more comprehensive range is available.
The tank loads are only light. The friend with the set track tried adding weights to the wagons in an attempt to get them to run. I thought he was going to break their backs.
I may have a go at back dating them, once I’m happy with the running. 
Many thanks for everyone’s interest.

Robert

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Erichill16 said:

Thanks for that. The track I can see them run on was iffy, one layout with handmade track and the other layout used set track points. A friend of mine took them home and tried them on his layout which I believe had decent track and said he couldn’t get them to run. I’m hoping to use the new Peco bullhead track when a more comprehensive range is available.
The tank loads are only light. The friend with the set track tried adding weights to the wagons in an attempt to get them to run. I thought he was going to break their backs.
I may have a go at back dating them, once I’m happy with the running. 
Many thanks for everyone’s interest.

Robert

 

If you are having so much trouble on so many different layouts, it sounds more possible that it is an issue with the wagons or wheels. Lowmacs are more difficult to set up correctly, just because of the long wheelbase and the small wheels. I would test any future builds to destruction before getting to the paint stage.

 

You need to set up your own test track with a locomotive, just pushing them back and forth by hand proves nothing. When testing lowmaks, you need to be doing it with the final load in place, obviously mocked up rather than chained down. The only thing that I can see, that I would not use under any circumstances, are the tension lock couplings (mini derailers) that I can see in the photo. Personal choice, but tension lock couplings will increase the likelihood of derailments (especially if not functioning properly) compared to three link for example, as they don't  have the same flexibility. A knuckle coupling may be a better option.

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

Thanks for that. The track I can see them run on was iffy, one layout with handmade track and the other layout used set track points. A friend of mine took them home and tried them on his layout which I believe had decent track and said he couldn’t get them to run. I’m hoping to use the new Peco bullhead track when a more comprehensive range is available.
The tank loads are only light. The friend with the set track tried adding weights to the wagons in an attempt to get them to run. I thought he was going to break their backs.
I may have a go at back dating them, once I’m happy with the running. 
Many thanks for everyone’s interest.

Robert

Good morning Robert,

 

As Andrew has pointed out, if you're getting derailments/poor running on a variety of different layouts, it's likely that the stock is the common denominator. 

 

From my experience, well-weighted stock always runs better - consistently-weighted wagons at that. By this I mean, give or take, dependent on size, all wagons have the same relative weight. You then don't have the problem of a lightweight vehicle at, say, the front of a heavy train being pulled off the road because much-heavier vehicles are behind it. This is even more important when the same rake is propelled into a siding. 

 

Obviously, I have Little Bytham to thoroughly-test any wagons/stock I make, but before that was up and running I rigged up a test track on a board about five feet long by a foot wide. On it was the tightest radius point one would expect the stock to run over, backwards and forwards, pushed or pulled by a loco (never just pushed by hand). Cuts of several wagons would be tried. Part of the test track would also have a section of the tightest radius any stock might have to negotiate, in the form of a reverse curve; preferably slightly tighter than anything to be encountered on a layout. It also helps for testing if the test track is not as diligently well-laid as the final layout, with the odd dodgy joint. 

 

What this all means is if your stock runs on the 'dodgy' test track, it'll run perfectly on the layout. I used exactly the same test track for new locomotives. 

 

I assume you've put your wagons on a mirror to test if all the wheels are touching the surface at the same time?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

Have you checked the wheels are the correct gauge width (back to back).

[Tony Wright]

18 minutes ago, micklner said:

Have you checked the wheels are the correct gauge width (back to back).

Good point, and vital!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Barry Ten]

29 minutes ago, micklner said:

Have you checked the wheels are the correct gauge width (back to back).

 

With my Lowmac, the wheels were hopelessly out of gauge and it derailed all over the place. Once I got them adjusted, it's been fine. But

I think the wheels on Robert's models were already changed for Romfords?

 

Al

[APOLLO]

Dodgy track !!

 

A couple of weeks ago, one balmy Friday evening I was running some trains on my O gauge N American layout trying out a new (well off ebay) loco - a brute of a loco - an Atlas twin motored Alco  six axle job - weighs so much you need two hands to pick it up.  It started to give trouble & derail at one particular place, on plain track at the commencement of a curve - sods law says that this was the most awkward section of track to get to - But get to I had to do to see what was going on. My track is standard Peco O gauge pinned to 1/2" insulation board on 1/2" chip with substantial framing underneath.

 

I had built removable retaining walls for general access, but sections of the scenery / tunnel mouths had to be removed for this job. Over 20 years since this was built.

 

 

Scenery and tunnel portal plate removed by 10.30pm !!

 

 

Cause of derailment found (rearmost track). For some unknown reason in the past where the straight track to the left joined the curve to the right I had joined the rails with two Peco nylon insulated fishplates. Over time the track had become de pinned & loose, and the heavy loco just made matters worse kinking the joint. With much bending, swearing etc the insulated joints were replaced with nickel silver ones, tracks re aligned and re pinned, all other tracks checked also. I found a couple of broken couplers, and other odds n sods fallen off trains over the years !! Off to bed at midnight bruised battered aching and tired - cursing the layout and wishing I had built a simple GWR branch line !!!!!!!!!!!!! (not really).

 

 

Saturday morning - all back to normal. Everything including scenery was now made very easy removable for future access (in another 20 years I hope !!!).

 

 

I just now need to cut one rail with my dremel for the section where it is easily accessible behind the retaining wall above.

 

Moral of this story for layout builders.

 

Make everything track wise accessible - see what sod and his law  made me do !

Don't use nylon insulation fishplates on curved to straight joints (especially in O gauge)

Don't run your trains after 9pm on a hot Friday evening !!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by APOLLO

[Clive Mortimore]

18 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Dodgy track !!

 

A couple of weeks ago, one balmy Friday evening I was running some trains on my O gauge N American layout trying out a new (well off ebay) loco - a brute of a loco - an Atlas twin motored Alco  six axle job - weighs so much you need two hands to pick it up.  It started to give trouble & derail at one particular place, on plain track at the commencement of a curve - sods law says that this was the most awkward section of track to get to - But get to I had to do to see what was going on. My track is standard Peco O gauge pinned to 1/2" insulation board on 1/2" chip with substantial framing underneath.

 

I had built removable retaining walls for general access, but sections of the scenery / tunnel mouths had to be removed for this job. Over 20 years since this was built.

 

 

Scenery and tunnel portal plate removed by 10.30pm !!

 

 

Cause of derailment found (rearmost track). For some unknown reason in the past where the straight track to the left joined the curve to the right I had joined the rails with two Peco nylon insulated fishplates. Over time the track had become de pinned & loose, and the heavy loco just made matters worse kinking the joint. With much bending, swearing etc the insulated joints were replaced with nickel silver ones, tracks re aligned and re pinned, all other tracks checked also. I found a couple of broken couplers, and other odds n sods fallen off trains over the years !! Off to bed at midnight bruised battered aching and tired - cursing the layout and wishing I had built a simple GWR branch line !!!!!!!!!!!!! (not really).

 

 

Saturday morning - all back to normal. Everything including scenery was now made very easy removable for future access (in another 20 years I hope !!!).

 

 

I just now need to cut one rail with my dremel for the section where it is easily accessible behind the retaining wall above.

 

Moral of this story for layout builders.

 

Make everything track wise accessible - see what sod and his law  made me do !

Don't use nylon insulation fishplates on curved to straight joints (especially in O gauge)

Don't run your trains after 9pm on a hot Friday evening !!

 

Brit15

 

 

 

Hi Mr 15

 

So where is the offending Alco?

[stewartingram]

It derailed, slid across the board and is on the floor?