Wright writes.....

[PJT]

56 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

Regarding screw couplings. The Rail Exclusive and Accurascale items, while very useful, look like they are for diesel locomotives. They have a pair of straight forged top links rather that the single curved link found on most steam locomotives.

 

Ok, by your description that would be the case for the Hornby R7200 couplings that I've used before (and others mentioned in this thread a couple of pages back), too.  Something else to stay alert to.  Thanks!

 

56 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

Accurascale  also make useful looking instanter couplings.

 

I don't know how I missed those.  Thank you again.

 

Pete T.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by PJT
Added bracketed comment

[APOLLO]

38 minutes ago, Clem said:

I think I may have found my future method of (semi) springing my locos, using High Level hornblocks, a piece of 2mmx 1mm brass strip, a 14BA screw and a spring:

 

 

Right. All I need now is either: a) a source for tiny springs that fit snugly over a 14BA screw, or

b) The knowledge of how to make them (presumably out of 0.0013 steel guitar strings) - i.e. how to get them to retain the required shape.

 

I have to admit to completely nicking the idea from Maygib hornblocks which however are plastic. But if this works, it will be a quick and simple way of achieving a chassis where all the driving wheels touch the rail for picking up current no matter how bad the trackwork is (within reason). It also improves the ride over point work.

      

 

 

I wonder if O scale kadee coupler springs would work ? I don't know their exact size though.

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/scales/o-scale.html?manufacturer=217&p=3

 

Brit15

[Barry Ten]

16 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

On the valve spindle guide, the alteration is dead simple, all it requires is an L shaped bracket attached to the underside of the running board. The guide just hovers over the spindle and lifts off with the body. I enclose a close up of my Fathers Tebay banker when it was under construction, I hope this may be of use. It shows the simplicity of the arrangement better than words.

 

 

 

Thanks, Andrew. That looks really excellent, I think I'll have a go at it down the line.

 

I saw Tebay at one of the shows and was really impressed, especially as I'd already seen the articles in Railway Modeler (I think). I'm guessing it was Ally Pally as that was

one of the few shows I managed to get over from the Netherlands for, once or twice in the early 2000s.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

I think I may have found my future method of (semi) springing my locos, using High Level hornblocks, a piece of 2mmx 1mm brass strip, a 14BA screw and a spring:

 

 

Right. All I need now is either: a) a source for tiny springs that fit snugly over a 14BA screw, or

b) The knowledge of how to make them (presumably out of 0.0013 steel guitar strings) - i.e. how to get them to retain the required shape.

 

I have to admit to completely nicking the idea from Maygib hornblocks which however are plastic. But if this works, it will be a quick and simple way of achieving a chassis where all the driving wheels touch the rail for picking up current no matter how bad the trackwork is (within reason). It also improves the ride over point work.

       

 

 

 

 

Very neat!

 

It might be worth talking to Maygib. They are still in business but do not advertise their model railway products but they might have a bin with thousands of the right sized springs and they might be able to sell you some.

[jrg1]

2 hours ago, Clem said:

I think I may have found my future method of (semi) springing my locos, using High Level hornblocks, a piece of 2mmx 1mm brass strip, a 14BA screw and a spring:

 

 

Right. All I need now is either: a) a source for tiny springs that fit snugly over a 14BA screw, or

b) The knowledge of how to make them (presumably out of 0.0013 steel guitar strings) - i.e. how to get them to retain the required shape.

 

I have to admit to completely nicking the idea from Maygib hornblocks which however are plastic. But if this works, it will be a quick and simple way of achieving a chassis where all the driving wheels touch the rail for picking up current no matter how bad the trackwork is (within reason). It also improves the ride over point work.

       

 

 

 

Coil springs can be unreliable.  An article in MRJ by the builder of North Shields substituted medical rubber sheet discs for springs

[Erichill16]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Indeed, the good old days, John,

 

On the Easter Sunday (hangovers permitting) the Wolverhampton chaps used to pop over to the Harrogate Show, which was open then. It was always worth a look. 

 

Was the York Show's closure on the Sunday something to do with arcane trading laws on the sabbath, within the ancient city walls? I seem to remember Cookie telling me that once: he could open the show, but no traders would have been allowed to sell anything. Weird! The Lord's Day Observance Society and 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Afternoon Everyone,

I was the publicity officer of Barnsley Model Railway during the period you are talking about and it was BMRC that organised the show at Harrogate (in the International Centre). We ran through from Friday evening through to Monday and I am sure the traders were allowed to trade, but the Sunday trading laws that came into force at that time allowed trading on any Sunday except Easter Sunday. I seem to recall one year the exhibition was open on the Sunday but the traders were all ‘shut’.

I’m pretty sure that’s the scenario but on reflection it’s a long time ago. It became unviable by the early 90s but it did allow the club to purchase it’s  own club rooms.

regards

Robert

[Clem]

2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

I wonder if O scale kadee coupler springs would work ? I don't know their exact size though.

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/scales/o-scale.html?manufacturer=217&p=3

 

Brit15

 

That's a very good shout. I've just checked the OO ones and they are probably nearer the correct size in diameter (although they are twice as long... 2 springs for 1?). Definitely worth an experiment.

 

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

Very neat!

 

It might be worth talking to Maygib. They are still in business but do not advertise their model railway products but they might have a bin with thousands of the right sized springs and they might be able to sell you some.

 

Thanks Tony. I will pursue that line. I have used the maygib hornblocks on a number of locos and still have a small supply left. The down side of using them from my point of view is that I'd never trust a simple plastic-brass glue joint and where I have used them, I've skinned the whole inside of the frames with thin plasticard, screwed and glued and then welded the hornblocks plastic to plastic. But it's quite a long process and a bit of a ball-ache.

 

37 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

Coil springs can be unreliable.  An article in MRJ by the builder of North Shields substituted medical rubber sheet discs for springs

 

Yes, that may be true but I've used this method on several locos, the first of which was built about 1989 and is now my only original P4 engine left. The others being converted to EM. The springs on that loco still work perfectly. Of course, although it employs a spring, it is not true springing as on a level surface, the hornblocks ride on the bottom of the screws which are adjusted through the top of the horn guide and only employ the springs when there is a dip or unevenness in the track. But for me, it's a simple way of getting better running. In any case, Chris Pendlenton's use of rubber sheet, although closer to true springing, will presumably be just as unreliable as the rubber deteriorates.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, jrg1 said:

Coil springs can be unreliable.  An article in MRJ by the builder of North Shields substituted medical rubber sheet discs for springs

 

I would say that coil springs over a rod are fine* - coil springs over a screw thread however could easily get caught on the thread. 

 

*used correctly - so they are always in at least some level of compression, and there is no chance of them being fully compressed.

[Atso]

6 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

Hi Steve,

I'm flattered to be included in that company. I think I'm a pretty competent blacksmith when it comes to locobuilding,  (my customers are happy anyway) but I can't line to that standard in 2mm, superb work.

 

jerry

 

Hi Jerry,

 

I do very much include you (and quite a few others) in the company of people who have both mentored and inspired me to try and tackle new things. I've seen your painting and think it is a very good standard. 

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Clem said:

Thanks Tony. I will pursue that line. I have used the maygib hornblocks on a number of locos and still have a small supply left. The down side of using them from my point of view is that I'd never trust a simple plastic-brass glue joint and where I have used them, I've skinned the whole inside of the frames with thin plasticard, screwed and glued and then welded the hornblocks plastic to plastic. But it's quite a long process and a bit of a ball-ache.

 

 

The late George Norton used to use the plastic Maygib hornblocks on the vast majority of his locos and he used to claim that he never had one come adrift. I only used them twice and they fell off all over the place. I must have been doing something wrong.

 

I managed to re-fix one by soldering a brass angle to the inside of the frame vertically front and back tight up to the plastic. The other one was never a top quality runner anyway so I scrapped it and built a new rigid mechanism.

 

I know people have different views and I would never argue that my way is "correct" but I seem to be able to make a smooth running reliable mechanism much easier than I can build a sprung or compensated one, so that is now my preference for EM and 00.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

The late George Norton used to use the plastic Maygib hornblocks on the vast majority of his locos and he used to claim that he never had one come adrift. I only used them twice and they fell off all over the place. I must have been doing something wrong.

 

I managed to re-fix one by soldering a brass angle to the inside of the frame vertically front and back tight up to the plastic. The other one was never a top quality runner anyway so I scrapped it and built a new rigid mechanism.

 

I know people have different views and I would never argue that my way is "correct" but I seem to be able to make a smooth running reliable mechanism much easier than I can build a sprung or compensated one, so that is now my preference for EM and 00.

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

It's been mentioned many times before, but I've never built a compensated chassis that's worked any better than the hundreds of rigid ones I've built. The few I've built take far longer, and for what gain? Nothing in my experience. 

 

I tried making a sprung chassis once (for a Brassmasters' 0-8-4T in EM). The kit was designed that way. What a nightmare!

 

After far too many hours of fiddling, and the thing running like a dead dog (not even a lame one), I gave up. I soldered everything solid, made new rods (the originals ended up with huge bearing holes surrounded by tiny slivers of nickel silver), and the end result? Effortlessly taking 60+ wagons round Retford!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chas Levin]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Chas,

 

I don't think you've been hasty, just pragmatic.

 

If you're capable of building a Comet chassis (as I'm sure you are), why not take the Trice/Comet route for a V2? I haven't done any sums (Mike very kindly gave me the V2 body to assess), but if he sells them for around £60.00, plus all the bits necessary from Comet/Markits, the overall price will probably still be less than that for the forthcoming Bachmann new RTR V2. A tender will be needed, of course, but I've seen so many dud Bachmann V2s and B1s around, that they can be picked up very cheaply. They might even be available as spares.

 

Granted, the new Bachmann V2 will be fully-painted, and it will be an exceptional model. However, when will it arrive? And, when it does, in the forthcoming (grim!) economic climate, how much will it actually cost? 

 

I don't have the answers. All I would say is that you'll have a unique model when it's finished if you take the Trice/Comet route; something you'll have personally-made. In that regard, it'll be 'priceless'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. I've already ordered a further Comet V2 chassis to go underneath the next one! 

 

It's very tempting and I may yet do it... I fully agree with your view that something we build ourselves gives a level of satisfaction unattainable in any other way. But it's not the cost (the comparison of the build compared to the Bachmann) that concerns me, so much as time. It's an equation we all have to juggle: how much modelling time do I have, before eyesight or manual dexterity start to decline, and how should I use it? Building things that have never appeared in RTR form - and which are almost certain never to do so - appeals, and the pile of such unbuilt kits that I have will take quite a few years. And although I note that my build times have decreased very noticeably with greater experience and practice, I'm nowhere near the sort of build times that many here - including you - achieve .

[Clem]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

The late George Norton used to use the plastic Maygib hornblocks on the vast majority of his locos and he used to claim that he never had one come adrift. I only used them twice and they fell off all over the place. I must have been doing something wrong.

 

I managed to re-fix one by soldering a brass angle to the inside of the frame vertically front and back tight up to the plastic. The other one was never a top quality runner anyway so I scrapped it and built a new rigid mechanism.

 

I know people have different views and I would never argue that my way is "correct" but I seem to be able to make a smooth running reliable mechanism much easier than I can build a sprung or compensated one, so that is now my preference for EM and 00.

 

Yes Tony, I couldn't agree more. I think most people look for a way to get a good running chassis and stick to it when they feel they have found it. You stick by what works for you. On the Maygib hornblocks my reasoning was that if you glue and pin a skin on the inside of the chassis, there will be less likelihood of them coming adrift if they are welded on using Butatone (carefully not getting any near the inside of the guides). And where I employed that method, it has worked well. I would never contemplate glue individual hornblocks on to a brass or N/S set of frames. George must have had a foolproof method of fixing them if they were part of his main way of chassis building. 

[t-b-g]

1 minute ago, Clem said:

Yes Tony, I couldn't agree more. I think most people look for a way to get a good running chassis and stick to it when they feel they have found it. You stick by what works for you. On the Maygib hornblocks my reasoning was that if you glue and pin a skin on the inside of the chassis, there will be less likelihood of them coming adrift if they are welded on using Butatone (carefully not getting any near the inside of the guides). And where I employed that method, it has worked well. I would never contemplate glue individual hornblocks on to a brass or N/S set of frames. George must have had a foolproof method of fixing them if they were part of his main way of chassis building. 

 

I asked him once and he said that he used Evostick to glue them on. He just used it as instructed, a thin layer, let it go "off" and press together. I don't know how he set his frames and hornblocks up but most of his locos ran very smoothly. I did buy a couple after he died and one, an LNWR 0-8-2T has the tiniest of tiny limps as it goes along. I have no idea how to cure it as when I look at it upside down, the limp goes. If I can't find it, I will struggle to fix it.

 

This is going to sound odd now but I consider a rigid set of frames as being better suited to my style of engineering. By better, I mean everything can be done that tiny bit tighter in terms of only one axle moving in a bearing, not two lots of movement with a bearing sliding up and down. Coupling rod holes can be smaller and have less slop if the crankpin centres are always the same and fitting pick ups is much easier if your wheels are always in the same place. I also prefer rigid rods, especially on 8 coupled locos (or 10 but I haven't ever built one, the GCR were short of them!) as joints mean that the wheels have a slight delay in starting to move from one end to the other.

 

Others seem to manage just fine and although I can build locos compensated or sprung and make them go, I just find it is much harder work for me.

 

 

[Clem]

Just to add a post-script on Maygib hornblocks, Here is a K's O4 on a coal train. Scratch chassis using Maygib hornblocks, high level gearbox and mashima. This was one of my first EM conversions in 2001. I've never had a problem with the springing and it's performed faultlessly since.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

My mentioning of the 0-8-4T yesterday made me delve into the photo library....................

 

I described the build of this some time ago in BRM, but something like this would not appear now in the magazine.

 

 

Such is the design of this, I'd say it's actually aimed at those who model in P4. Though there's a 'nod' towards narrower gauges, it's no more than a passing glance............

 

 

I did try to get the springs to work (honestly), but the skills required were way beyond anything I possess. Thus, I made the whole lot rigid, employing the old dodge of putting one eighth steel rods through the bearings, shining a light on them and 'reading' the shadows so that everything was square and parallel. Strategic tack-joints were then made, before full soldering took place. 

 

 

To accommodate EM, the outside faces of the bearings had to be filed flush (see what I mean about this being a kit designed for P4?). As for trying to make it in OO, new spacers would be required. 

 

 

Dimensions for the new rods were plotted in the old-fashioned way. 

 

 

And transferred to the new rods - made over-long to start with and sweated together as a pair. 

 

Look at the size of the bearing holes in the original rods, such was my struggle to get them to run sweetly when the thing was sprung! I never managed it; as I say, far beyond any abilities I might possess.  

 

 

 

I cut off the oil boxes from the original rods and soldered them over the bearings in the new ones. 

 

I made a 'nod' myself towards 'compensation'. I elongated the bearings for the second axle just a bit, north/south, and fixed the simplest of .45mm nickel silver wire 'springs'. 

 

It ran perfectly................... No waddles, wobbles and everything nice and 'tight'. Not tight as in 'tight spot', but no jelly-like slop, which it displayed as a sprung chassis.

 

 

Would I ever build another? Definitely not!

 

 

Geoff Haynes did paint it nicely, though. 

 

 

Here on Retford, complete enough to test thoroughly.  

[Tony Wright]

12 minutes ago, Clem said:

Just to add a post-script on Maygib hornblocks, Here is a K's O4 on a coal train. Scratch chassis using Maygib hornblocks, high level gearbox and mashima. This was one of my first EM conversions in 2001. I've never had a problem with the springing and it's performed faultlessly since.

 

 

That's lovely motion, Clem,

 

However, I've seen Tony Gee's rigid locos, and they run just as smoothly. As, and you've seen for yourself, do my rigid ones.

 

It boils down to my not having the requisite skills to build sprung/compensated chassis.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clem]

6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It boils down to my not having the requisite skills to build sprung/compensated chassis.

Ha ha!! Come on Tony! You out-skill me by miles! :-) ...       It's not skill it's what works for you. And I've seen your locos and also Tony G's engines at exhibitions and I totally agree with you. They all run beautifully. I think we all get there by our own preferences and devices.... And one thing is for certain: in the time it takes me to produce 1 loco you've done about 5. So yes, it does take more time to do sprung or compensated chassis (although I get too lazy and distracted sometimes and don't get on with things as I should). How does the saying go? ....   You pays your money and makes your choice....  (is that right?)

[t-b-g]

37 minutes ago, Clem said:

Just to add a post-script on Maygib hornblocks, Here is a K's O4 on a coal train. Scratch chassis using Maygib hornblocks, high level gearbox and mashima. This was one of my first EM conversions in 2001. I've never had a problem with the springing and it's performed faultlessly since.

 

 

 

Very nice!

[Paul Cram]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Just to add a post-script on Maygib hornblocks, Here is a K's O4 on a coal train. Scratch chassis using Maygib hornblocks, high level gearbox and mashima. This was one of my first EM conversions in 2001. I've never had a problem with the springing and it's performed faultlessly since.

 

 

Nice looking layout.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Just to add a post-script on Maygib hornblocks, Here is a K's O4 on a coal train. Scratch chassis using Maygib hornblocks, high level gearbox and mashima. This was one of my first EM conversions in 2001. I've never had a problem with the springing and it's performed faultlessly since.

 

 

 

Nice very looking!

[Clem]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thus, I made the whole lot rigid, employing the old dodge of putting one eighth steel rods through the bearings, shining a light on them and 'reading' the shadows so that everything was square and parallel. Strategic tack-joints were then made, before full soldering took place. 

Witchcraft!!

[Headstock]

56 minutes ago, Clem said:

Witchcraft!!

 

Good morning Clem.

 

I'm getting quite bored of painting wagons, I may post you a few, provided you don't get your springy things out. I can feel my two years, 'build something that moves under its own power', itch coming on. Your perambulating images are not helping.

[PJT]

23 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

Regarding screw couplings. The Rail Exclusive and Accurascale items, while very useful, look like they are for diesel locomotives. They have a pair of straight forged top links rather that the single curved link found on most steam locomotives.

 

Accurascale  also make useful looking instanter couplings.

 

I've just got out a pair of Sutton Loco Works/Rail Exclusive screw link couplings to use this morning and was surprised (and happily relieved) to see that they're the opposite to the way you described, having a single curved top link, so would be quite appropriate for the majority of steam locos.  The Hornby R7200 screw link couplings, however, are of the 'pair of straight forged top links' type. 

 

Whilst emptying out the contents of my couplings tin over the table to look at all the examples I have picked up from different manufacturers over the years, I came across a couple of sets of Romford screw links in the old Jackson Romford packaging.  Given the discussion here about their impending demise and the passing of an era, I think I might save them like that for posterity.

 

Pete T.

 

[richard i]

Advice please.
To the far more expert modelers, a set of questions.

i have seen a number of references to taping a hole. I have found a company who makes the tap and die sets, but what do I need? 
do I need a taper, second or plug? Do I need the tap or the die or both? Do I need a tap wrench or die stock holder or a tailstock die holder to go with them or can they be used on their own?
I think it will make my life easier when I get solder on the inside of nuts to be able to reestablish the slot again for the bolt to run in.

many thanks For any help or advice, 

richard