Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, richard i said:

I think it will make my life easier when I get solder on the inside of nuts to be able to reestablish the slot again for the bolt to run in.

If that is all you need to do, then a taper tap to start the job, and possibly a plug tap to finish it, will suffice. For the nut sizes we generally use, you can hold the tap in a pin vice.

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, PJT said:

 

I've just got out a pair of Sutton Loco Works/Rail Exclusive screw link couplings to use this morning and was surprised (and happily relieved) to see that they're the opposite to the way you described, having a single curved top link, so would be quite appropriate for the majority of steam locos.  The Hornby R7200 screw link couplings, however, are of the 'pair of straight forged top links' type. 

 

 

Interesting and confusing Pete. The web page shows the 'straight top link' type (my description, not sure it's the right one) which makes sense for diesel locos. I'm probably missing something as usual!  

[Chuffer Davies]

30 minutes ago, richard i said:

Advice please.
To the far more expert modelers, a set of questions.

i have seen a number of references to taping a hole. I have found a company who makes the tap and die sets, but what do I need? 
do I need a taper, second or plug? Do I need the tap or the die or both? Do I need a tap wrench or die stock holder or a tailstock die holder to go with them or can they be used on their own?
I think it will make my life easier when I get solder on the inside of nuts to be able to reestablish the slot again for the bolt to run in.

many thanks For any help or advice, 

richard

Hi Richard,

As far as taps are concerned the difference between the three types is the aggressiveness of the taper, I.e. how far you have to insert the tap before the thread is fully cut.  Unless you are working in restricted space or a blind hole then a taper is sufficient for your needs.

 

The die is used to cut a male thread e.g. the thread on a bolt.  You will need some kind of die holder to ensure the die is 'squeezed' shut sufficiently to cut the required depth of thread.  If you have a lathe and money isn't an issue then a tailstock die holder is the ideal but I get away with a normal die holder and if I'm using the lathe I just rest the back of the die holder against the face of the tail stock.  You need to ensure the die holder is the correct size for the diameter of the die you are using. 

 

Frank

[PJT]

2 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

Interesting and confusing Pete. The web page shows the 'straight top link' type (my description, not sure it's the right one) which makes sense for diesel locos. I'm probably missing something as usual!  

 

Oh, I doubt you're missing anything.  I guess it's quite possible that SLW's couplings came from different sources at different times, or some similar scenario.  Perhaps the best way for me to rephrase my statement is to say that currently (as of my last order, a month or so ago), the SLW couplings are of the single curved top link type.  You have to keep your wits about you and assume nothing in this hobby, don't you?  There's a banana skin waiting for you on the floor around every seemingly insignificant corner.  To be honest, I'm just happy to know I don't now have to try to work out which steam locos I fitted SLW front couplings to, so I can do a 'recall and replace'!

 

Have a great weekend.

 

Pete T.

 

[PJT]

52 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

1 hour ago, richard i said:

Advice please.
To the far more expert modelers, a set of questions.

i have seen a number of references to taping a hole. I have found a company who makes the tap and die sets, but what do I need? 
do I need a taper, second or plug? Do I need the tap or the die or both? Do I need a tap wrench or die stock holder or a tailstock die holder to go with them or can they be used on their own?
I think it will make my life easier when I get solder on the inside of nuts to be able to reestablish the slot again for the bolt to run in.

many thanks For any help or advice, 

richard

Hi Richard,

As far as taps are concerned the difference between the three types is the aggressiveness of the taper, I.e. how far you have to insert the tap before the thread is fully cut.  Unless you are working in restricted space or a blind hole then a taper is sufficient for your needs.

 

The die is used to cut a male thread e.g. the thread on a bolt.  You will need some kind of die holder to ensure the die is 'squeezed' shut sufficiently to cut the required depth of thread.  If you have a lathe and money isn't an issue then a tailstock die holder is the ideal but I get away with a normal die holder and if I'm using the lathe I just rest the back of the die holder against the face of the tail stock.  You need to ensure the die holder is the correct size for the diameter of the die you are using. 

 

Frank

 

To the excellent advice of Chuffer Davies and St Enodoc above, I'd add the following.  If you've not really used taps before, don't make the error of trying to wind the tap all the way through the nut in one go.  As it cuts, the tap creates waste and swarf which will clog the threads and possibly cause them to be recut incorrectly unless you remove it.  Actually clogging with waste may, at worst, sieze the tap in the thread and you'll snap the tap if you continue to force it through (and good luck removing the snapped end of a hardened tap afterwards!).  The best way is to only wind the tap into the thread until you meet a bit of resistance, then back the tap off by half a turn, which gets the waste clear, then wind it in again.  Just keep going, in increments of a quarter turn, half turn or even a complete turn or two until you meet resistance, until the tap is all the way through.  Normally I'd say put a drop of oil on the tap, but if you're clearing solder out of the nut thread, the solder will work as a bit of a lubricant anyway.  If you remember that thread cutting or thread cleaning is a slow and gentle process, you'll always do ok.  In fact, it can almost be theraputic!

 

Reminds me of an instance in my car fatory days when a chap on the production line hit upon the idea of cleaning paint out of the threads of the steering rack mountings on car bodies to make his job of attaching the steering racks easier.  Off his own back, he used a tap in an air gun to clear the threads, not realising that whacking a tap straight through the thread (not at high speed, fortunately, but the air gun forced the tap through without stopping or reversing) would devastate the form of the thread, which, we found out later, was as a result only about half the height and pitch it should have been.  This unofficial process continued over several thousand cars before it was discovered.  Of course, then the car manufacturer very quickly found itself with another humble pie-eating vehicle recall declaration to the Department of Transport and all the equivalent European authorities.

 

Pete T.

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by PJT
Missing an important comma.

[richard i]

Thank you for the advice on the taps, it has been most helpful. I hope it was of useful to others. 
richard 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, richard i said:

Advice please.
To the far more expert modelers, a set of questions.

i have seen a number of references to taping a hole. I have found a company who makes the tap and die sets, but what do I need? 
do I need a taper, second or plug? Do I need the tap or the die or both? Do I need a tap wrench or die stock holder or a tailstock die holder to go with them or can they be used on their own?
I think it will make my life easier when I get solder on the inside of nuts to be able to reestablish the slot again for the bolt to run in.

many thanks For any help or advice, 

richard

Good afternoon Richard,

 

I just have 6BA, 8BA, 10BA and 12BA taper taps, plus a couple of tap wrenches. I bought them all from Hughes and Holmes in Wolverhampton around the time you were born! They're all still going strong. 

 

I've never found the need for a set of dies. If a thread is contaminated with solder, I just put an appropriate steel nut in box spanner, twist it on, and that clears it straight away.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

2 hours ago, richard i said:

Thank you for the advice on the taps, it has been most helpful. I hope it was of useful to others. 
richard 

 

One thing I would add would be to perhaps also buy some larger size than would normally be needed for modelling (but may still come in useful) such as M6 maybe.  Why?  Use it to learn the process  (I'm sure there's a few Youtube videos out there).  Normal modelling sizes (i.e. small!) tend to be expensive (especially  the very small sizes - 12BA and below), and easily broken; an M6 much less so.  Also, go for HSS Taps, rather than carbon taps - HSS will last a lot longer, and arguably do a better job.

As mentioned, taps are very hard so very brittle - and removing a broken one that is flush with the surface isn't fun (drilling it out doesn't work, since the tap is so hard).

As for suppliers, you could do worse than here:

https://www.tracytools.com/taps-and-dies

 

HTH

Brian

 

p.s.    My local college evening class tutor was asking someone "why are there 3 taps in a set?"  The reply:  "In case you break one".  The person was being interviewed for a position as a ......Tutor in the Engineering Dept.  He didn't get the job, thankfully....

[Chas Levin]

On 25/06/2020 at 23:43, Woodcock29 said:

Hi Chas

Its the D&S ECJS brake. I have a part built one I acquired a couple of months ago to finish shortly.

Andrew

Hello Andrew - thank you, I wasn't sure and I wondered if there was another short wheelbase clerestory kit that I didn't know about.

I just finished one a little while back, such a lovely carriage - that's the roof and lights in the picture under my forum name. It's made me realise that I really love the look of clerestory carriages, especially when combined with a bow end.

I'm very sad that it's the one D&S did, but I am considering producing a variant: I have a second of the same D&S kit, bought on Ebay and started, in that most of the parts have been separated from the etches but not much else done. I also a while ago bought some ECJS coach etches from Kemilway (a very long wait but they did eventually arrive), which I subsequently read have various issues as to their not being really accurate representations of any proper diagrams.... Sooooo..... I'm thinking of performing surgery on a couple of the K's sides and combining them with the D&S floorpan, chassis, ends and clerestory roof (I'll make my own full brass roof as I did last time) to produce as close as I can get to a different, passenger carrying diagram!

One possibility for instance might be a Diagram 75 ECJS 1st Class Dining Saloon & Kitchen (a 46' body, only 6" adrift). The diagram's shown on page 23 of Ken Hoole's ECJS History. It's not on my immediate to-do list, so I haven't yet investigated how much work would be needed to convert the K's sides, but I'm sure it would be achievable .

Edited June 27, 2020 by Chas Levin

[Tony Wright]

The SE Finecast GS 4,200 gallon tender for the Mike Trice V2 is almost complete................

 

It's got a low front plate, which makes it a rarer V2 tender, but appropriate for the prototype of my choice. 

 

 

Just the toolboxes, tank filler, pick-up dome, vacuum cylinder and brake/water-pick-up levers to add. These will be finally glued in place, because internal soldering is now impossible. TW gluing! Afraid so, but none of the parts is load-bearing and cleaning off external solder is just tedious. 

 

I already have the parts for the next one.

 

Watch this space....................

Edited June 27, 2020 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Headstock]

Talking about ECJS BG's, I completed this one back in Feb. It has stood around in undercoat awaiting the application of teak for the last five months. Progress was delayed by illness, lockdown, lack of paints and a weather that was to hot, to cold and a general lack of mojo and a backlog of stuff.

 

Finally its time has come. The teak base coat was added and the underframe painted this morning and weathered this afternoon, detail work to do. It's almost nine months since I did the last batch but If my teak brushes are still in order, painting shouldn't have to wait another five months.

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Headstock
Add space

[Barry Ten]

If anyone remembers my SE&CR E1 class which I built last summer, it's taken most of the year to work its way through the paint shop. I've finally got around to applying the lining.

 

 

This is Modelmaster LNER lining, which comes in white/black/white stripes. Once it's on, I cut back one of the white lines using ink and a fine brush (or a permanent marker on the tender).

 

The cab side is the same paint shade (Railmatch light olive) as the rest of the body, but I had to brush paint over some damage after airbrushing the original body colour. so it's come out more matt. Once it's all sealed behind varnish, it should all tie together. Next I have to do the tricky bit of painting the footsteps. Looks like II'll have to find a compromise between the cab and tender angles, judging by this photo!

 

Al

[Headstock]

I've also been mocking up loads on the steel carriers. One hundred and twenty, thirty foot lengths of steel rod, represents around about forty tons on the Quint. The double bolster will carry half that amount and will require runners (more wagons to build) due to the overhang.

 

[2750Papyrus]

It's 56 years since I was in the apprentice training school, but I think it depends somewhat as to whether you are tapping a through or blind hole.  If through, a single "first" tap will do the job, as the top will be to the full diameter, though you may have to go the full length of the tap.  A second tap has a more pronounced taper, so you get to a full diameter quicker - useful for a blind hole.  A plug tap has minimal taper and takes the thread at full diameter to the bottom of a blind hole.  Whichever tap you are using, use plenty of lubricant and "back off" (turn anticlockwise) at intervals to clear swarf.  Don't forget your drilled hole should be to "tapping drill" diameter (basically the core diameter of the thread).

 

Many years ago I came into possession of a misfiring minivan.  On removing the cylinder head, I found one of the cylinder head stud holes to be blocked; the tapping drill had broken and been left in situ  and the engine assembled with a missing stud!  Eventually I got the broken drill out and could tap the hole and fit the missing stud.

 

 

[davidw]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The SE Finecast GS 4,200 gallon tender for the Mike Trice V2 is almost complete................

 

It's got a low front plate, which makes it a rarer V2 tender, but appropriate for the prototype of my choice. 

 

 

Just the toolboxes, tank filler, pick-up dome, vacuum cylinder and brake/water-pick-up levers to add. These will be finally glued in place, because internal soldering is now impossible. TW gluing! Afraid so, but none of the parts is load-bearing and cleaning off external solder is just tedious. 

 

I already have the parts for the next one.

 

Watch this space....................

That looks excellent. Though it's quite something that when manufacturers were chasing prototypes, it'll be next year before a V2 like that will be RTR. A missed opportunity for many years...

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

If through, a single "first" tap will do the job, as the top will be to the full diameter, though you may have to go the full length of the tap.

Hence my slightly qualified statement earlier, as there might not be room beyond the nut in Richard's situation to get to the full diameter.

 

4 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Whichever tap you are using, use plenty of lubricant

Trefolex used to be the standard product (probably still is) but for clearing solder out of a (brass?) nut you might not need anything at all.

[Michael Edge]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Trefolex used to be the standard product (probably still is) but for clearing solder out of a (brass?) nut you might not need anything at all.

Trefolex for steel, oil or nothing for brass but use spit for Mazak - and the best advice is about frequently backing off the tap. I have taps and dies in all sorts of sizes, very rarely use anything but a taper tap and dies are only ever used in the lathe (cleaning threads is usually done with a die nut but I've never seen these in our small sizes). If you do break a taper tap grinding the end off will often leave you with a fairly good plug tap.

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, davidw said:

That looks excellent. Though it's quite something that when manufacturers were chasing prototypes, it'll be next year before a V2 like that will be RTR. A missed opportunity for many years...

Good morning David,

 

Many thanks.

 

I suppose that it's quite striking that it'll be 2021 (at the earliest?) before a decent RTR V2 will be finally available. For decades folk have bought Bachmann's original one, and, presumably, many are still happy with it; especially since it had a much better chassis provided for it a little while ago.

 

The need for a better chassis was on two levels; one, because the original split-chassis was really not DCC-compatible, and: two, because that original chassis was awful. I know folk tell me they've got split chassis which work 'beautifully', but I wonder what their definition of 'beautiful' is. So many split-chassis have been brought to me at shows with the question asked 'What can I do about this; the wheels have all come off?' 'Have you got a plot, and have you got a spade?' is my standard response. 

 

Indeed, a friend brought a split-chassis B1 over on Friday, and the axles had (literally!) split. 'There's nothing I can do' I told him, 'except build a Comet set of frames for it'. 

 

Returning to the V2 theme, I've just soldered-up the next set of Comet frames for the second one. Progress pictures later...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MikeTrice]

27 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Returning to the V2 theme, I've just soldered-up the next set of Comet frames for the second one. Progress pictures later...................

You are producing these faster than I can turn them out .

 

There will be at least one more winging its way to you in the near future.

[gr.king]

For split wheel sets that have disintegrated there are less radical solutions than a complete new chassis of a different type, but for the most part you can't effect those solutions with a soldering iron....

[Tony Wright]

Nothing to do with V2s or split-chassis...................

 

 

 

 

Phil Crathorn's beautiful Dolgelley in O Gauge.

 

To feature in a future issue of BRM................

 

 

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, gr.king said:

For split wheel sets that have disintegrated there are less radical solutions than a complete new chassis of a different type, but for the most part you can't effect those solutions with a soldering iron....

Good morning Graeme,

 

What are these less-radical solutions, please? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[gr.king]

New muffs, purchased (Peter's spares?) or home-made, or faff-around with various de-greasing agents, abrasives, glues, files and possibly the odd strengthening band or two made from brass tubing as a means of holding the axle muffs together.

[Barry Ten]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

The need for a better chassis was on two levels; one, because the original split-chassis was really not DCC-compatible, and: two, because that original chassis was awful. I know folk tell me they've got split chassis which work 'beautifully', but I wonder what their definition of 'beautiful' is.

 

 

 

 

 

 I tend to think you only see the basket-cases, Tony. I've had plenty which still run well, by which I mean: smoothly, slow start/stops, quietly, no waddle, no stalling. Exactly the same criteria I'd apply to any chassis, including one I was building.

 

However, they are a pain to covert to DCC. But I've done that with a fair few of them as well.

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Barry Ten
adding to a point.

[St Enodoc]

18 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

However, they are a pain to covert to DCC. But I've done that with a fair few of them as well.

They take a bit of effort and if they're fitted with outside valve gear, yes they can be a pain. If not they're not too bad.