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34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm afraid the hour has passed. 

 

Never mind, I can run an A4 very fast any day..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

https://imechearchive.wordpress.com/2020/07/03/guest-blog-a-matter-of-time-and-space/

 

"Analysing Mallard's Run of 3rd July 1938" by David Andrews

 

If the hour has passed then you might instead look at this article.

Edited by Adam88
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33 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm afraid the hour has passed. 

 

Never mind, I can run an A4 very fast any day..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

https://imechearchive.wordpress.com/2020/07/03/guest-blog-a-matter-of-time-and-space/

 

"Analysing Mallard's Run of 3rd July 1938" by David Andrews

 

If the hour has passed then you might instead look at this article.

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On 02/07/2020 at 12:28, Tony Wright said:

Comet's crossheads are not handed and cater for both left- and right-hand sides, with the little end of the connecting rod running a pocket. This must be completely clear, with the assembly broached for clearance. 

 

684622648_MikeTriceV2214motion.jpg.6fbb28cfec8c4ae6ae12174201d18306.jpg

 

Without modification, the little end will jam. Note how I've enlarged the bearing holes in both the big and little ends. The latter will be anathema to proper engineers, but remember that the rod will be driven by the wheels, not, as on the prototype, it driving them. Plenty of clearance means fewer chances of tight spots.

 

821534598_MikeTriceV2215motion.jpg.283b9722cc9ecd4e11f31b92681392fb.jpg

 

The little end is held in place by a 16BA screw, secured with a 14BA nut, soldered securely in place. These are not supplied in the chassis kit. 

 

 

 

Tony - many thanks for taking the time to describe the construction (and pitfalls!) of V2 motion construction :clapping:

One question, if I may?  Is there a reason/benefit in securing the little end to the crosshead with a 16BA screw and 14BA nut, or would using a dressmaker's pin avoid the need to open up the little end to within a fraction of it's life :D (Polybear - Engineer, just retired.....)

 

3 hours ago, DougN said:

The more I think about the best combinations to achieve the most accurate but easiest model. I think might be a combination of, the lovely 3d print by Mr Trice, a comet chassis with brass master castings, or may be a branchlines chassis that has not been mentioned so far.

 

Tony kindly responded to my query a few pages back regarding a comparison between the Branchlines and Comet chassis.  Mention was made of slinging the Branchlines motion across the room.....

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47 minutes ago, polybear said:

One question, if I may?  Is there a reason/benefit in securing the little end to the crosshead with a 16BA screw and 14BA nut, or would using a dressmaker's pin avoid the need to open up the little end to within a fraction of it's life :D (Polybear - Engineer, just retired.....)

 

 

 

This is with a dressmaker's pin, for what it's worth.

 

crosshead.jpg.ebf8845880004e29f7250b00195e6966.jpg

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59 minutes ago, polybear said:

Tony - many thanks for taking the time to describe the construction (and pitfalls!) of V2 motion construction :clapping:

One question, if I may?  Is there a reason/benefit in securing the little end to the crosshead with a 16BA screw and 14BA nut, or would using a dressmaker's pin avoid the need to open up the little end to within a fraction of it's life :D (Polybear - Engineer, just retired.....)

I feel it is time for another prototype photo:

IMG_8429.JPG.5844c3b908ac875b6d35d4f3531c4669.JPG

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's said we learn from our mistakes. It's a pity I didn't learn from what I got right in the first place! 

Been there... got the T-shirt.  (too late 'Ah now I remember....' moments)

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6 hours ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

Very much been enjoying the V2 discussion. The Mike Trice body looks superb, just look how far 3D printing has come.

 

Speaking of V2s, this BFI footage maybe of interest that I'm currently watching. Some lovely footage of V2s in Scotland, in particular this shot of one on coal empties at 2 minutes 48 seconds (plus at 3 minutes 44, a Peppercorn A2 in rather nice condition on a fitted).

There is also some lovely variety of colour wagon stock @jwealleans

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-great-north-of-scotland-railway-films-1963-online?fbclid=IwAR3OY3fAw1w8VXsVj5EIo-R7DkkLIo3GfmuLp0ynVg8dGgUVmhJ5tmdnZww

Wonderful film. Some of the hard working A2 and V2 shots... Papyrus which I saw at Carlisle Canal in 1961....The 2P on the freight at the beginning... but the final shot of Earl Marischal pulling a lovely selection of carriages behind with un-named D40 2269 giving it a push was the coup de grace! Thank you for sharing this.

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1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

Tony - many thanks for taking the time to describe the construction (and pitfalls!) of V2 motion construction :clapping:

One question, if I may?  Is there a reason/benefit in securing the little end to the crosshead with a 16BA screw and 14BA nut, or would using a dressmaker's pin avoid the need to open up the little end to within a fraction of it's life :D (Polybear - Engineer, just retired.....)

 

 

Tony kindly responded to my query a few pages back regarding a comparison between the Branchlines and Comet chassis.  Mention was made of slinging the Branchlines motion across the room.....

Good evening Brian,

 

It's something I've always done (over the last 40 years and more of building locos with outside motion, and none has ever failed). 

 

The 16BA screw is small enough in diameter to be able to not take too much out of the little end, and the 14BA nut does give a sort of representation of the castellated thing on the prototype. 

 

It wasn't the whole Branchlines' motion which I flung across the room. Just the impossible to form (for me) slidebars.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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7 hours ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

Very much been enjoying the V2 discussion. The Mike Trice body looks superb, just look how far 3D printing has come.

 

Speaking of V2s, this BFI footage maybe of interest that I'm currently watching. Some lovely footage of V2s in Scotland, in particular this shot of one on coal empties at 2 minutes 48 seconds (plus at 3 minutes 44, a Peppercorn A2 in rather nice condition on a fitted).

There is also some lovely variety of colour wagon stock @jwealleans

 

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-great-north-of-scotland-railway-films-1963-online?fbclid=IwAR3OY3fAw1w8VXsVj5EIo-R7DkkLIo3GfmuLp0ynVg8dGgUVmhJ5tmdnZww

 

 

Wow wow and thrice wow. Another interesting part was the goods with the brake van followed by some more vans. Model that and I suspect a few would point out the error ;)

 

I've never seen tablet catching apparatus in use before either.

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36 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Wow wow and thrice wow. Another interesting part was the goods with the brake van followed by some more vans. Model that and I suspect a few would point out the error ;)

I used to watch the daily Hull (first) and then the Grimsby fish trains every weekday evening in 1960 til about 1963 on the GC. In the vast majority of cases, the brake van had several vans behind it. I understand that this was where the main train was made up at one dock and these vans were added on at another dock/pick-up point. As the train was fully fitted, no time was wasted - or needed - shunting the train. I believe this happened at Lowestoft too.

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28 minutes ago, Clem said:

I used to watch the daily Hull (first) and then the Grimsby fish trains every weekday evening in 1960 til about 1963 on the GC. In the vast majority of cases, the brake van had several vans behind it. I understand that this was where the main train was made up at one dock and these vans were added on at another dock/pick-up point. As the train was fully fitted, no time was wasted - or needed - shunting the train. I believe this happened at Lowestoft too.

 

Evening Clem,

 

that's how the train is modeled on LSGC. I think that the regulations (going from memory here, so may be slightly off or slightly on) allowed for four vans outside of the Guards van. I've heard of a number of different explanations for why this was done.

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1 minute ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Clem,

 

that's how the train is modeled on LSGC. I think that the regulations (going from memory here, so may be slightly off or slightly on) allowed for four vans outside of the Guards van. I've heard of a number of different explanations for why this was done.

Evening Andrew. I've seen a photo of a K3 on a fish at Lowestoft. It had set out from the main fish despatch sidings on the docks and was backing into another smaller set of sidings to add a few further fish vans on the back, behind the brake van. You could very well be right about the maximum 4 vans. I can't recall the brake van being more than a very small number of vans in front of the back of the train on the GC. I'll have a look around to see if I can find the K3 photo..... I may be gone some time.....

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On 30/06/2020 at 00:25, Headstock said:

 

Chas,

 

The clerestory is soldered to the ends of the carriage, with the roof in two parts, so that the clerestory is open from below. I will be glazing it, even though the glass will end up quite dirty. The representation will be post war, at the end of the carriages service life, hence the lack of roof destination board brackets and step boards.

 

The roof mounted lights on these sorts of carriages is quite interesting in terms of their development. Inevitably, the real things got so dirty that they were of little use. Following the abandonment of the clerestories and the even harder to keep clean 'gabled' roof mountings, the lights eventually moved to a position below the cornice in the LNER BG's. In representing these, I don't always bother using clear glazing. The reference photographs, that I used as a guide for my recently completed ex NER BZ, showed roof lights so dirty that they were indistinguishable from the surrounding roof area. It would have looked wrong in context of the model to have them any other way. On the other hand, I produced the lights on the roof of a GN bogie milk van with a semi transparent dirt effect to show a little variation.

 

The final teak finish is yet to be decided. A subtle balance is required that reflects the realities of a carriage of its age, its qualities as an individual model and how it fits esthetically into a formation of sixteen other vehicles.

Very interesting Andrew, thank you. I'd noted the appearance of clerestory and other upper lights after some time in traffic - or rather, their disappearance! 

Please will you post pictures of the carriage when it's finished? 

I too built a GN bogie milk van recently and tried to achieve clear lights but ended up getting them partially fogged with glue... which I then realised actually looked fine and not unlike dirt build-up.

Have you posted pics of the NER BZ and I've missed it?

 

Chas

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1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

 

Wow wow and thrice wow. Another interesting part was the goods with the brake van followed by some more vans. Model that and I suspect a few would point out the error ;)

 

I've never seen tablet catching apparatus in use before either.

'Another interesting part was the goods with the brake van followed by some more vans. Model that and I suspect a few would point out the error ;)'

 

It was quite common on the ECML with longer distance express fish trains.

 

Where extra vans were picked up en route, rather than waste time separating the brake van from the train, they were tacked on the end.

 

I think they rejoiced in the name of 'swingers', and, I believe, up to six were allowed. Not a problem, since they were fully-fitted. A beneficial side-effect was that they stabilised the 'van, giving the guard a more comfortable ride. 

 

WMRC ran just such a rake on Stoke Summit..............

 

1795267127_608210nfish01.jpg.56c543eb74a103f79ee1f6aeb96aaca3.jpg

 

Though it's difficult to see exactly in the distance, there are two vans behind the brake van in this rake. 

 

The V2, by the way, is my 40+ year old Jamieson one, which now still sees service on LB. 

 

Speaking of Little Bytham, the express fish on that has 'swingers' at the rear. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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On 02/07/2020 at 16:00, grob1234 said:

Brilliant as ever, Tony. Valve gear photos like you have posted are invaluable. 'A picture paints....'

 

May I dare to offer a D120 LNER pigeon van. I know there is a little controversy surrounding these - possibly a jack of all trades, master of none. All I know is it looks reasonably LNER'ly to me. First attempt at Teak. It's perhaps a little darker than I wanted, depicting a van about 10-15 years old. Comments welcome, as long as they're nice :D

 

IMG_6159.jpg.462a10cf0706f77be5451edbc43c5b1d.jpg

Marvellous, Tom - wish my first attempts a teak had been that good! You're right that it's dark but to my eye that's a very realistic representation of a carriage that's seen a few years' running...:good_mini:

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2 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Chas,

 

RM web doesn't seem to have post numbers anymore. Here's a re upload of the ner BZ and the GN milk.

 

 

NER BZ Electric light2.jpg

Ex GNR Milk brake.jpg

 

Thanks Andrew. If they were further back in this thread I must have seen them as I read my way right through from page 1, but I started last Autumn and there are so many beautiful pictures...!

These are both superb looking: I especially like the teak on the GN. I'm still very much on a learning curve with that and I also need more practice with the variations between panels... 

I see what you mean about the roof lights :)

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On 30/06/2020 at 11:17, t-b-g said:

 

I wouldn't argue with any of that but I would add another category. There a a few of us who enjoy both aspects and like operating a layout running what we have built. Certainly a minority but I know a few. Both Buckingham and Narrow Road are very much layouts designed for intricate and complex operating but both have a tiny number of RTR items (nothing at all straight out of the box) and certainly nothing that we have commissioned from others.

 

So you don't have to be a builder or an operator, you can be both.

 

 

Absolutely! Though I do notice that my running time, like some others, seems to be heavily taken up with test-running of current builds, and the number of hours I spend running is dwarfed by those spent building.

But there's nothing so enjoyable as watching a loco you've built pulling a train composed entirely of vehicles you've built too :).

So far, I can manage a short mixed freight, or a short fish express, or a short parcels train - all pulled by the one loco I've built to date: so many things to build, so few hours in the day :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

RM web doesn't seem to have post numbers anymore.

 

A useful feature lost to improvement.  However, if you click on the funny symbol at the top right of a post it will give you a link to the post.

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12 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

I feel it is time for another prototype photo:

IMG_8429.JPG.5844c3b908ac875b6d35d4f3531c4669.JPG

Wonderful picture, Mike.

 

I wonder how many modellers go to the time and trouble to make a union link like this, with forked ends? I never have, and most frets for valve gear don't give you two pieces to sweat together, anyway. 

 

I assume the Finney kit allows for this replication? 

 

Interestingly, the parts are stamped with '800', which was the later LNER number for GREEN ARROW. In fact, the combination lever is stamped 'BR' as well, so is this set a replacement for the original (which would have been stamped '4771')? I suppose components do wear out.

 

Note how snug the fit of the the crosshead's slipper is in the slidebars. Were mine that intimate, the whole thing would jam up immediately power was applied. In 4mm, it's impossible to reproduce exact 'working clearances'.

 

My Golden Age A4 has forked union links.................1011514470_60027onUpElizabethan02.jpg.b932f4a7e14668e2d589bb098ff73094.jpg

 

However, from 'normal' viewing distances, can anyone tell? The double-thickness expansion links do just about show up, though. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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9 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Absolutely! Though I do notice that my running time, like some others, seems to be heavily taken up with test-running of current builds, and the number of hours I spend running is dwarfed by those spent building.

But there's nothing so enjoyable as watching a loco you've built pulling a train composed entirely of vehicles you've built too :).

So far, I can manage a short mixed freight, or a short fish express, or a short parcels train - all pulled by the one loco I've built to date: so many things to build, so few hours in the day :rolleyes:

Good morning Chas,

 

'But there's nothing so enjoyable as watching a loco you've built pulling a train composed entirely of vehicles you've built too :).'

 

I couldn't agree more...............

 

214501952_Elizabethan01.jpg.f38d53a433651263940b0d941f960a71.jpg

 

I'd also like to be able to state that I painted the loco as well, but this is Ian Rathbone's superlative finish. 

 

I did, however, paint the train.

 

If nothing else, what a contrast this picture makes compared with the one in my previous post; in terms of the 'scenery', because the rakes are the same.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

A useful feature lost to improvement.  However, if you click on the funny symbol at the top right of a post it will give you a link to the post.

 

7 hours ago, trustytrev said:

hello,

      That still does not give you a post number

trustytrev.:)

reply.png

I thought it was a nuisance too  when the change was first made. Since then I've realised that if a post is deleted for any reason then the post number is no use at all because all the numbers after the deleted post(s) change. The direct link to the post is actually more useful I find now.

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9 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

A useful feature lost to improvement.  However, if you click on the funny symbol at the top right of a post it will give you a link to the post.

 

I hadn't tried that until I read your suggestion. I'd assumed that the "reporting" facility was there only for complaints (either justifiable and significant or over-sensitive, politically-correct, petty and ridiculous). Now I find it is actually useful and practical for ordinary participants.

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