Wright writes.....

[t-b-g]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

What a great picture, Robert,

 

Apart from the loco/train, what's caught my eye is that run of point rodding, with equal gaps between the runs. Just as it was on Little Bytham. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I am a bit puzzled by that one Tony. Point rodding is usually on equally spaced stools and with the rods equally spaced. In most cases, it is only otherwise if some rodding has been altered or removed. Or am I missing something?

 

There were laid down standards and if I could remember if I have them anywhere, possibly Laurie Adam's lovely book which I have but don't remember where I put it, I would quote them. I recall different spacing for round rods and channel and closer spacing on curves. 6ft spacing of stools for round rods and 8 or 9ft for channel come to mind and something close to 3" for the spacing from one rod to the next.

[Manxcat]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I've mentioned before, but I have never operated a real railway in any shape or form. 

 

 

Tony,

 

I was sure you had taken a steam loco driving experience. Is that not a form of operating a real railway, even though a preserved one?

 

Archie

[Headstock]

5 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

That would certainly explain the somewhat offended look she has on her face?

 

Just replying....

 

Despite the offended look, it has to be said, the GC had less aesthetically challenged train spotters than in Tony's neck of the woods.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Manxcat said:

Tony,

 

I was sure you had taken a steam loco driving experience. Is that not a form of operating a real railway, even though a preserved one?

 

Archie

I'd forgotten that, Archie,

 

However, I don't think that qualifies as having operated a 'real' railway. I was under supervision all the time, so it was really by proxy. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

4 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Despite the offended look, it has to be said, the GC had less aesthetically challenged train spotters than in Tony's neck of the woods.

But the GC was my neck of the woods, Andrew.

 

From my bedroom window in Chester I could see (at a little distance) the GC road from Chester Northgate and the CLC to Wrexham and the Wirral. Though not able to read the numbers (none was a cop, anyway) there were C13s, N5s and all the O4 types, plus the occasional J11 and even a J10. Aren't they GC enough? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Headstock]

10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

But the GC was my neck of the woods, Andrew.

 

From my bedroom window in Chester I could see (at a little distance) the GC road from Chester Northgate and the CLC to Wrexham and the Wirral. Though not able to read the numbers (none was a cop, anyway) there were C13s, N5s and all the O4 types, plus the occasional J11 and even a J10. Aren't they GC enough? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Evening Tony,

 

do you mean GC train spotters were the same as everybody else? I'm crushed.

[MJI]

Done a Bachmann  steam inventory today

 

75xxx wheels gone

93xx wheels gone

Mod Hall OK

45xx OK

9F OK

 

And my old Mainline Jubilee is OK as well

[Mike 84C]

6911 at the Vic, must be after 84C  Banbury was transfered into the  Midland region because its got a 2D shedplate  so 64/5 is right.  Cleaned and fired it lots of times a pretty good engine. But getting rather worn out by the time I got on it.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

That's why, whenever I'm handed the controls of 'other' layouts, I politely decline.

Ha ha, we have photographic evidence of you using a DCC throttle here in Australia...

[Clive Mortimore]

Bit late to today's party, been modelling and running trains. Well that has covered a good part of operator or modeller debate as I done both today.

 

The talk about what makes a good layout had me thinking, most of those mentioned are steam based. Sadly a layout I know which recently went into retirement that has the run pass of trains which some people like to see at shows and shunting going on at the same time is Paul Wade's Tonbridge West Yard. I suspect many would have walked past it with its mainly kit built EMUs, and scratchbuilt departmental wagons based on a real location as it was "modern image". Paul was quite strict with his operators, despite it being set in Network Southeast days the departmental trains were not allowed to be of mixed brake types unless there was a brake van.

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Ha ha, we have photographic evidence of you using a DCC throttle here in Australia...

Do you mean on the occasion I picked one up? 

 

I can't remember if I actually operated your trainset, John.

 

If I did, it was merely out of politeness. When in Rome, as is said..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Bit late to today's party, been modelling and running trains. Well that has covered a good part of operator or modeller debate as I done both today.

 

The talk about what makes a good layout had me thinking, most of those mentioned are steam based. Sadly a layout I know which recently went into retirement that has the run pass of trains which some people like to see at shows and shunting going on at the same time is Paul Wade's Tonbridge West Yard. I suspect many would have walked past it with its mainly kit built EMUs, and scratchbuilt departmental wagons based on a real location as it was "modern image". Paul was quite strict with his operators, despite it being set in Network Southeast days the departmental trains were not allowed to be of mixed brake types unless there was a brake van.

A wonderful layout, Clive,

 

And a delight to photograph, quite a few years ago. Unfortunately, because it was all shot on medium-format transparency, I cannot post my pictures of TWY on here. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Tony,

 

do you mean GC train spotters were the same as everybody else? I'm crushed.

Good morning Andrew,

 

I suppose I'd better come clean and admit I did precious little trainspotting on the ex-GC (CLC in Chester). About six weeks after starting trainspotting 'properly' (in 1955/'56), such was the parochial nature of the motive power that all the local ex-GC 4-4-0s, 4-4-2Ts, 0-6-0s, 0-6-2Ts and 2-8-0s had been underlined. Then DMUs took over the passenger jobs, so that was that - no interest. 

 

It was the same in Manchester, where apart from a few A5s and other Gorton-based locos, the main attractions were the ex-L&Y and ex-L&NWR. Any main line passenger train leaving London Road for the ex-GC road was electric-hauled. 

 

Sheffield was similar (though I didn't take much notice of Sheffield Midland). From my grand-parental base between Sheffield and Retford, there really was no 'contest'. By brother, cousins and I had a choice - eastbound or westbound from Kiveton Park. Which would you choose as a trainspotter? The ECML or the parochial GC? Granted, the A3s had left by the time I watched a few trains at Sheffield Victoria, but the expresses were very infrequent (in comparison to the ECML) and what the electrics handed over to consisted of little else but B1s and V2s. 

 

Though I admire the GC greatly, to the urchin 'number cruncher' the delights of the WCML (at Crewe, just a short distance from Chester) or the ECML at Retford and Doncaster were far, far more seductive. Even the 'green named' loco on the GC at Retford was always the same one; on the boat train. 61620 CLUMBER. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Do you mean on the occasion I picked one up? 

 

I can't remember if I actually operated your trainset, John.

 

If I did, it was merely out of politeness. When in Rome, as is said..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Well, to adopt Tony Gee's distinction you certainly "ran" a train although I can't in honesty say you "operated" it. Never mind, from small acorns great oaks grow.

 

And you were remarkably polite...

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andrew,

 

I suppose I'd better come clean and admit I did precious little trainspotting on the ex-GC (CLC in Chester). About six weeks after starting trainspotting 'properly' (in 1955/'56), such was the parochial nature of the motive power that all the local ex-GC 4-4-0s, 4-4-2Ts, 0-6-0s, 0-6-2Ts and 2-8-0s had been underlined. Then DMUs took over the passenger jobs, so that was that - no interest. 

 

It was the same in Manchester, where apart from a few A5s and other Gorton-based locos, the main attractions were the ex-L&Y and ex-L&NWR. Any main line passenger train leaving London Road for the ex-GC road was electric-hauled. 

 

Sheffield was similar (though I didn't take much notice of Sheffield Midland). From my grand-parental base between Sheffield and Retford, there really was no 'contest'. By brother, cousins and I had a choice - eastbound or westbound from Kiveton Park. Which would you choose as a trainspotter? The ECML or the parochial GC? Granted, the A3s had left by the time I watched a few trains at Sheffield Victoria, but the expresses were very infrequent (in comparison to the ECML) and what the electrics handed over to consisted of little else but B1s and V2s. 

 

Though I admire the GC greatly, to the urchin 'number cruncher' the delights of the WCML (at Crewe, just a short distance from Chester) or the ECML at Retford and Doncaster were far, far more seductive. Even the 'green named' loco on the GC at Retford was always the same one; on the boat train. 61620 CLUMBER. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good morning Tony,

 

I have to come clean myself. I have never train spotted anything in my entire life. Inevitably, I'm going to be coming at this from a different perspective. One location or another? To probably mis quote LP Hartley "The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there", it would all seem like ezotica to me. I've touched an A1, A2, A3 and A4. I've seen them in action and smelt them and even climbed all over them. An A5 on the other hand, pure unobtanium, it would even be worth going to Manchester for.

 

Even on the East coast mainline, I would be whipping the controls of my time machine back another decade or even two. Some of what bored you as a kid, is the stuff that is as rare as hens teeth in model railway land, while the big RA9's speed kings have become as common as muck.

 

You do make a good case for not modeling the GC in the late fifties early sixties, the nostalgia era I call it. I would be winding the time machine back again, as more exciting foreign countries lie beneath.

[APOLLO]

As a snotty urchin I was lucky to be a 10 min walk from Wigan North Western, though I could view from mum & dads bedroom window the constant procession of 8F & WD powered coal trains on the L&Y Pemberton loop line hauling Yorkshire coal to Liverpool docks - which seemed to drastically reduce sfter around 1963/4 (line shut 1968).

 

These scenes from the Wigan World website - some excellent local photos.

 

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?page=2&opt=5&gallery=Wigan+North+West+Station

 

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?opt=5&offset=0&gallery=Central+Station

 

 

One of Wigan GC's J10 spent her last years at Springs Branch. This one is the station pilot. J10's were liked by Springs Branch crews so I have read.

 

 

Who wouldn't be a snotty nosed Wigan spotter in the 60's ? Far better than getting yourself bashed around playing rugby !!!!!

 

 

Brit15

[Headstock]

4 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

As a snotty urchin I was lucky to be a 10 min walk from Wigan North Western, though I could view from mum & dads bedroom window the constant procession of 8F & WD powered coal trains on the L&Y Pemberton loop line hauling Yorkshire coal to Liverpool docks - which seemed to drastically reduce sfter around 1963/4 (line shut 1968).

 

These scenes from the Wigan World website - some excellent local photos.

 

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?page=2&opt=5&gallery=Wigan+North+West+Station

 

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?opt=5&offset=0&gallery=Central+Station

 

 

One of Wigan GC's J10 spent her last years at Springs Branch. This one is the station pilot. J10's were liked by Springs Branch crews so I have read.

 

 

Who wouldn't be a snotty nosed Wigan spotter in the 60's ? Far better than getting yourself bashed around playing rugby !!!!!

 

 

Brit15

 

Good gravy, that kids got a flasher mac.

[Michael Edge]

25 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

As a snotty urchin I was lucky to be a 10 min walk from Wigan North Western, though I could view from mum & dads bedroom window the constant procession of 8F & WD powered coal trains on the L&Y Pemberton loop line hauling Yorkshire coal to Liverpool docks - which seemed to drastically reduce sfter around 1963/4 (line shut 1968).

 

These scenes from the Wigan World website - some excellent local photos.

 

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?page=2&opt=5&gallery=Wigan+North+West+Station

 

https://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/showalbum.php?opt=5&offset=0&gallery=Central+Station

 

 

One of Wigan GC's J10 spent her last years at Springs Branch. This one is the station pilot. J10's were liked by Springs Branch crews so I have read.

 

 

Who wouldn't be a snotty nosed Wigan spotter in the 60's ? Far better than getting yourself bashed around playing rugby !!!!!

 

 

Brit15

I was one of those as well, from sometime in 1958 when at the grand age of eleven I was allowed to roam away from home - seems a very different world now doesn't it?

We were however usually banished from North Western's platforms and went down the side of Wallgate from where you could see both lines. The J10s shunting at North western caused some consternation as I only had a London Midland Ian Allan book and the numbers didn't go as far as 60000....

A year or so later I got as far as Birkenhead and found locos with big brass numberplates and only four digits - even more difficult to understand (and to read when they were usually on filthy Granges at Mollington Street shed).

[APOLLO]

The Iron Bridge 9as we called it) over the L&Y at the side of North Western was also a god spot - trying to spit down the loco chimneys "to put the fire out" !!

 

 

Looking south(ish) from the bridge, Wigan NW to the right

 

 

Looking 'tuvver way - Sleeper train departing Wallgate station ----  A sleeper train from Wallgate ???????

 

 

Taken from the WCML bridge over the L&Y - Wallgate station. Michaels spotting spot far right

 

 

Another strange train passing under the WCML & passing through Wallgate (2 May 1980) - anyone model things like this ?

 

 

Incidentally, a fine model of Wigan Wallgate & area is being built by katwigan, a link to his rmweb thread

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106606-wigan-wallgate/

 

Ah well, back to "proper" trains on the ECML (yes I am a LNER / GC fan).

 

Brit15

 

 

[grob1234]

On 09/07/2020 at 18:23, Tony Wright said:

I've started the first of my 'post-lockdown' locos, a DJH 8F.

 

 

It really is a beautifully-smooth runner, largely due to the latest DJH motor/gearbox combo which fits snugly between the frames. This one is the smaller one, the AM10, though it's got more than enough power for this application.

 

The only mods so far have been to fit pick-up pads (I heartily dislike the 'American' system of loco-tender pick-ups - recommended by DJH - though I know others have had success with it). 

 

I also dislike articulated 'rods, so these have been soldered together as rigid. 

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I was wondering why is it that you solder the articulated coupling rods? Do you do this for all 3+ axle locos?

 

Also, what might be the reason that I get a slight knocking coming back through the gearbox and into the motor, resulting in the armature moving forward and aft? Yet when the loco is run without the coupling rod, it is smooth. Clearly an issue with the coupling rod? But... too slack or too tight? I notitce RTR valve gear seems quite slack, surprisingly so.

 

Many thanks as always (I do take notes I promise, it just takes a while for it all to sink in! )

 

[Michael Edge]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

The Iron Bridge 9as we called it) over the L&Y at the side of North Western was also a god spot - trying to spit down the loco chimneys "to put the fire out" !!

 

 

Looking south(ish) from the bridge, Wigan NW to the right

 

 

Looking 'tuvver way - Sleeper train departing Wallgate station ----  A sleeper train from Wallgate ???????

 

 

Taken from the WCML bridge over the L&Y - Wallgate station. Michaels spotting spot far right

 

 

Another strange train passing under the WCML & passing through Wallgate (2 May 1980) - anyone model things like this ?

 

 

Incidentally, a fine model of Wigan Wallgate & area is being built by katwigan, a link to his rmweb thread

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106606-wigan-wallgate/

 

Ah well, back to "proper" trains on the ECML (yes I am a LNER / GC fan).

 

Brit15

 

 

Thanks for bringing back some more memories, Wigan Wallgate was the first proper layout I built, exhibited a few times at the Leeds show in the 1970s - that iron bridge, or at least some of it, was on the layout.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

The Iron Bridge 9as we called it) over the L&Y at the side of North Western was also a god spot - trying to spit down the loco chimneys "to put the fire out" !!

 

 

Looking south(ish) from the bridge, Wigan NW to the right

 

 

Looking 'tuvver way - Sleeper train departing Wallgate station ----  A sleeper train from Wallgate ???????

 

 

Taken from the WCML bridge over the L&Y - Wallgate station. Michaels spotting spot far right

 

 

Another strange train passing under the WCML & passing through Wallgate (2 May 1980) - anyone model things like this ?

 

 

Incidentally, a fine model of Wigan Wallgate & area is being built by katwigan, a link to his rmweb thread

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/106606-wigan-wallgate/

 

Ah well, back to "proper" trains on the ECML (yes I am a LNER / GC fan).

 

Brit15

 

 

 

The 47 on sleepers and those DMUs are so evocative.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, grob1234 said:

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I was wondering why is it that you solder the articulated coupling rods? Do you do this for all 3+ axle locos?

 

Also, what might be the reason that I get a slight knocking coming back through the gearbox and into the motor, resulting in the armature moving forward and aft? Yet when the loco is run without the coupling rod, it is smooth. Clearly an issue with the coupling rod? But... too slack or too tight? I notitce RTR valve gear seems quite slack, surprisingly so.

 

Many thanks as always (I do take notes I promise, it just takes a while for it all to sink in! )

 

Good afternoon Tom,

 

I always make rigid rods, though with one exception - if the loco is ten-coupled. With 'stiff' rods a 9F can struggle on the tightest curves.

 

In the case of the 8F illustrated, as supplied you have (effectively) an 0-6-0 being driven off its rear axle and an 0-4-0 driven off its front. In my experience, the nearer to the centre for the drive is best. Thus, by soldering both rods together (each side), I ended up with an 0-8-0 driving off one of its inner axles (I added the pony later). I tried it as supplied, but got a knock; which disappeared completely once the rods were rigid. A cocktail stick through the bearing holes ensured accuracy while soldering took place.

 

I know real steam locos had articulated rods, and that they were fully-sprung. Many will advocate such practice in making their models, but the dynamics will never scale. As long as one observes the following, then excellent running is readily achieved.

 

1. Rigid chassis should be jig-assembled and perfectly square.

 

2. When the drivers are on for testing, there should be no twist in the frames and there be no rock when placed on mirror glass (if the jig has done its job properly, then this shouldn't happen, but experience has shown me that occasionally a 'tweak' between fingers and thumbs is necessary. Not much, just a titch if necessary). 

 

3. All axles should revolve freely in their bearings (before oiling). The drive should be free as well, especially when its placed in the frames. I'll often ream the driven bearings and the gearbox when they're together. 

 

4. All rods on a rigid chassis should be rigid themselves (with the possible exception of a ten-coupled). There should be sufficient clearance in the crankpin bearings so that there is never any binding at '3 o'clock' or '9 o'clock', both sides. I've seen some compensated/sprung chassis where there is so much 'slop', it's impossible to tell where binding is taking place. In fact, there's so much slop that the locos behave as if they're running on trackwork made of jelly! 

 

5. Of course, it's axiomatic that all baseboards supporting trackwork should be flat and all track-laying should be as flat as possible. If 'compensation' is required, I'd ask the question 'What is one compensating for?'. If it's for poor baseboards/trackwork, then cure the 'illness', not just treat the symptoms. 

 

My list applies to making chassis in OO and EM (never having built anything in P4 - not skilled enough), though the point about decent baseboards and decent track is universal. 

 

It's also axiomatic that the layout wiring is adequate and well done, and that all locos have enough pick-ups.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jwealleans]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I get a slight knocking coming back through the gearbox and into the motor, resulting in the armature moving forward and aft? Yet when the loco is run without the coupling rod, it is smooth. Clearly an issue with the coupling rod? But... too slack or too tight?

Tom,

 

Faced with that, I'd try slackening the grubscrew so the motor is out of mesh and pushing the chassis backwards and forward very lightly to see where (if) it jams.  When it does, see which rods are tight and if possible on which crankpins.  Take the tiniest amount out of those holes and repeat.  If pushing the chassis from one end doesn't produce a jam, try pushing the driven set of wheels instead.  It's then just test - ream - repeat until you have smooth running.

[Erichill16]

Going back a couple of posts, my dad encouraged my railway modelling interest and started with steam as this was the direction he lead me. I did a bit of train spotting, in the late 70s early 80s but never considered modelling this period.

Over the last 10 years or so I’ve noticed the dramatic increase in the quality of British N gauge and this has lead me to start collecting these model. I’ve weathered and renumbered them to locos that I’ve actually copped. Some day  I may build a layout based on the area I used to frequent the most often, the midland line, at Cartlon, between Cudworth and Royston.

Robert