Wright writes.....

[Tom F]

46 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Is it really that long ago, Tom? 

 

You really are a top-weatherer. 

 

I think my painting of the loco was 'adequate'.........

But you brought it to life!

 

 

 

 

That's very kind of you Tony. I'm constantly learning, but it has gone from being and enjoyable hobby, to a rewarding business too.

 

You painting and lining looked very good to me. It was one of my favourite locomotives to work on, primarily because it wasn't flimsy like RTR is to work on.

 

49 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Do you remember weathering that modified Hornby B1 at much the same time?

 

 

 

 

 

I do indeed! Another favourite I worked on for Little Bytham. 

[Headstock]

50 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Is it really that long ago, Tom? 

 

You really are a top-weatherer. 

 

I think my painting of the loco was 'adequate'.........

 

 

But you brought it to life!

 

 

 

It still sees regular service on Little Bytham, and it's one of my favourite loco-builds.

 

Do you remember weathering that modified Hornby B1 at much the same time?

 

 

 

Obviously some little time ago; no point rodding.............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I think 62070 looks rather neat in the raw, quite a nice quality finish. I don't think it would have been to difficult to add the go faster strypes to the loco and tender valances

[Daniel W]

I've finally managed to finish the Dave Bradwell 13T Hopper, after what felt like an eternity of working on it. It's certainly a good kit, but some of the tolerances were very tight to say the least. I'm fairly certain the hopper is a about 1mm too high on the chassis, but i couldn't get it any lower. In fact, the whole thing is a little wobbly and wonky, but i'm still somewhat chuffed with myself for not giving up on this complex kit.

 

Next step on my soldering journey is starting a Loco kit. Either a Judith Edge kit for a North British shunter or an Agenoria kit for a Hudswell Clarke Canal class tank engine. Although between work and other hobby projects, i'll probably give the soldering iron a rest after this one!

[sandra]

19 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Today was spent in the most-enjoyable of circumstances, visiting Retford. The first time since it's been 'saved'.

 

I have to say what a marvellous job the new owner has done. It's so spick and span, having been diligently cleaned and any minor repairs (the odd broken point blade fixed) carried out with absolute diligence. The running, despite a year of almost complete inactivity, was, as usual, impeccable. One B1 was a bit jerky, so, on invitation, I examined it and merely adjusted the pick-ups. Afterwards, silky-smooth performance. I'd like to think that the late, great man approved. 

 

I took along some spare LB stock, re-gauged to suit and was delighted when a Mk.1 BSO completed the Talisman. 

 

The new owner has already made some new locos for Retford................

 

 

Both these ran splendidly.

 

On occasions, I've read the word 'masterpiece' on RMweb, used to describe layouts. I wonder whether the users know exactly what it means............. 

 

 

Retford is a masterpiece, and it's going to be completed. I can think of no finer tribute to Roy than to have his masterpiece finished (lamps on locos will be my job!).

 

When that takes place, will anyone be able to show me a greater model railway? 

 

Jerry, if you're reading this, might the MRJ be interested in a 'progress report'?

 

 

Tony,

 

It was lovely to see you and Mo yesterday when you came to see Retford. Thank you for kindly lending me some stock and converting it to EM. As I said to you, now I am the owner of Retford, my aim is to complete it. A large amount to work has been done on the layout but a lot still needs to be done, particularly in completing the buildings many of which are just mockups. 
 

I admired the layout from the moment I first read about it in MRJ. I was lucky enough to talk to Roy Jackson at an Expo EM exhibition and to my surprise he invited me to visit Retford. On entering the railway shed I was completely captivated by the “train-set” as he called it. It took enormous imagination to visualise a project such as this. He started it not even having anywhere to erect it in full. It even went out on exhibition two or three times which must have been an enormous undertaking.

 

In the marvellous photographs taken by Tony two of the locomotives are mine. The V2 is from a Nucast kit I built and painted during lockdown. It still needs weathering as well as crew and lamps. The A1 “Madge Wildfire” is actually a Hornby “Tornado” converted to EM gauge by changing the bogie and tender wheels but moving the Hornby driving wheels out on their axles to the EM back to back. Other changes have been made including extensive alterations to the tender and new smoke deflectors.

 

Although Roy Jackson was the driving force behind Retford many other people made enormous contributions to the project. I would love them to continue to work on the railway if they feel they can . I appreciate that without Roy it will not be the same but I would like the railway to be finished as a tribute to Roy.

 

Sandra

 

 

 

 

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

When I look at the vast area of scenery in the south east quadrant between the GN and the GC on Retford, I'm reminded of how much of it is your work, Tony. And Babworth 'box, and.........................

 

Despite the amount of time given by others (in spite of the abuse), it's my perception that Retford stalled in the last decade (apart from some still-amazing amounts of work). Why, I'm not sure. However, the 'journey' was probably more important for Roy. He told me half a century ago, when I scrambled around the encroaching vegetation inside a disused Methodist Chapel in Walkerith attempting to photograph the boards containing the north junction, that he never expected to see it finished; but kept going. 

 

I think it's very wise to be 'less ambitious', though a project like Retford is heroic, if rather 'insane'. The latter said, the model railway world is far richer because of it. And, given the resources, vast model railways are possible. 

 

When I say 'vast', I'm reminded of the likes of the EM Carlisle, being built in France. It's even bigger than Retford, though the approach is fundamentally-different. I mentioned resources, and that includes, if necessary, a huge fiscal budget in order that top professionals (the likes of Mike Edge) be paid in order to work on it, often for weeks on end. It's been my privilege to photograph it already on two occasions (a putative third visit was suggested for this year, but Covid scuppered that). I've certainly worked on re-wheeling and tweaking rolling stock (as barter for our wonderful accommodation), the RM paying for the photography. Having seen some of Mike's more-recent shots (it's over two years since I've been there), progress has been very rapid, and it's far nearer completion than Retford, though at huge expense. As I say, given 'fiscal clout', though Roy always pleaded poverty. 

 

But I don't know that Roy Jackson would have ever been happy with 'chequebook' modelling, even given a rich purse. I'm not deriding those who pay others to do their modelling for them (often they have the 'vision', though lack the practical skills), and, rather in the manner of patrons in the past, they facilitate the creation of 'masterpieces' through having enough dosh. I suppose the ultimate expression of this was a layout (in O Gauge) which I'd been commissioned to photograph, only to have the owner die before any pictures were taken (I don't think my taking of pictures was potentially-lethal, though the guy who was arranging the photo shoot also died shortly after!). Anyway, not only was everything on this huge model made by top pros (including Beeson), the owner employed a couple of chaps to maintain and run it! 

 

All the above said, from a personal perspective, I don't think I'd derive any great pleasure if my layout was all the product of others' work (not that I have the money!). Though LB is the work of many, talented modellers (the likes of which, I hope, I acknowledge all the time), much of it is my work and most has been achieved by barter. 

 

I suppose ultimately it comes down to personal satisfaction. Some get that by way of 'possession', though that would not suit me (nor Roy, nor you if I may say so?). Others get it by making just about everything themselves, meaning their creations are smaller and often take years to complete - even a lifetime. I like to think that Little Bytham fits somewhere in between; the work of many (but not in a 'possessive' sense), in the main pooling resources. A much smaller version of Retford in a way, though nowhere near as 'heroic'. That took a great man's vision, even if the vision ultimately disappeared. I count it a great privilege to be potentially among the team which completes it. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Good post Tony. You have summed up the situation with Retford and other projects very well.

 

Retford did tend to "drift" a bit in recent years. Roy's eyesight and hands were not as good as they were and he was personally struggling to do work of a quality that satisfied him. He grew increasingly grumpy and negative towards what he was doing and also towards what others were doing and amongst his many qualities, leadership and man management did not figure highly!

 

As you know, I stopped going some time ago due to a few differences with Roy and I don't think I was alone in finding it difficult to be very enthusiastic about putting many hours of work into the project.

 

Despite our differences,  we remained friends and I probably feel more inclined to contribute for the new owner than I was for Roy. Both as a memorial to him and as a thank you to the new owner for making sure that the layout that I and others have put so much into has a secure future. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

It was lovely to see you and Mo yesterday when you came to see Retford. Thank you for kindly lending me some stock and converting it to EM. As I said to you, now I am the owner of Retford, my aim is to complete it. A large amount to work has been done on the layout but a lot still needs to be done, particularly in completing the buildings many of which are just mockups. 
 

I admired the layout from the moment I first read about it in MRJ. I was lucky enough to talk to Roy Jackson at an Expo EM exhibition and to my surprise he invited me to visit Retford. On entering the railway shed I was completely captivated by the “train-set” as he called it. It took enormous imagination to visualise a project such as this. He started it not even having anywhere to erect it in full. It even went out on exhibition two or three times which must have been an enormous undertaking.

 

In the marvellous photographs taken by Tony two of the locomotives are mine. The V2 is from a Nucast kit I built and painted during lockdown. It still needs weathering as well as crew and lamps. The A1 “Madge Wildfire” is actually a Hornby “Tornado” converted to EM gauge by changing the bogie and tender wheels but moving the Hornby driving wheels out on their axles to the EM back to back. Other changes have been made including extensive alterations to the tender and new smoke deflectors.

 

Although Roy Jackson was the driving force behind Retford many other people made enormous contributions to the project. I would love them to continue to work on the railway if they feel they can . I appreciate that without Roy it will not be the same but I would like the railway to be finished as a tribute to Roy.

 

Sandra

 

 

 

 

Thank you, Sandra, for acquiring Retford (and the property that goes with it!). I doubt it would have survived in any recognisable form, if at all, without you.

 

I first met Roy at a show, Nottingham if I recall correctly, and we had a very good chat. Not long afterwards, I visited Retford with the LNER Society and found it absolutely amazing. I visited almost every year from then onward until 2018. It is a layout where full-length East Coast expresses can really be seen in a proper scale setting, and not many layouts can achieve that. Roy invited me to come to one of the regular mid-week running sessions but it wasn't possible due to my work and the distance involved.

 

I was also very fortunate to be introduced to Sandra by Tony when we visited along with Mark Jenkins (Mark54 on this forum) to run Little Bytham. Tony even left the three of us in charge of it.

 

Photos, or even video, do not really convey the scale of it all. The way I usually describe Retford is that the floor area of the room in which it and Black Lion Crossing live is almost exactly the same as the area of the plot of land on which my house stands - a 3-bedroom house on the London/Surrey border with garage and large railway room in the garden. Retford is around a scale one mile in length if I recall correctly. And there was still room for Geoff Kent's previous layout, Blakeney, as well - that has now been sold.

 

I too hope that Retford can move forward. I think my own contribution is likely to be very small in comparison with others but I have taken a first tentative step in EM by ordering some carriage wheels. One has to start somewhere!  As I wrote in a previous post, it would be good to find the Summer 1957 carriage workings and working timetables but they seem elusive. I have been looking through books and magazines for photos of trains that ran through Retford in the Summer of 1957, and even they seem hard to come by.

 

Something that I believe Sandra missed as she was unable to attend Expo EM that year was Roy's talk on layouts he had been involved with. This was interspersed with lots of anecdotes and a bit of life story. It was excellent and I wish I had been able to record it.

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I think 62070 looks rather neat in the raw, quite a nice quality finish. I don't think it would have been to difficult to add the go faster strypes to the loco and tender valances

Good evening Andrew,

 

'I don't think it would have been to difficult to add the go faster strypes to the loco and tender valances'

 

Difficult? Perhaps not, but many prototype pictures show that the valance lining seemed to disappear more quickly under grime than on other areas, excepting boiler bands. There's also my natural indolence, of course!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

I have posted this video clip before but in the light of today's postings, I thought it worth linking to it again as both Roy and Sandra are in it.  Roy is engaged in lively dialogue with the GN operators about a possible oversight in the operation - the train passing through should have stopped - and Sandra is at the far end operating the GC side.  This was my final visit before Roy passed away.

[Jack P]

What do people use for cutting brass and other metals when scratchbuilding? I'm getting to the stage where I would like to have a go at making my own 'parts' and scoring with a craft knife 100 times to cut through 0.5mm brass surely isn't the most efficient way?

 

I was thinking about straight cut aviation snips (which are effectively tin snips), what else would people recommend?

 

Thanks in advance!

[t-b-g]

8 minutes ago, Jack P said:

What do people use for cutting brass and other metals when scratchbuilding? I'm getting to the stage where I would like to have a go at making my own 'parts' and scoring with a craft knife 100 times to cut through 0.5mm brass surely isn't the most efficient way?

 

I was thinking about straight cut aviation snips (which are effectively tin snips), what else would people recommend?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

For straight lines, I use an OLFA cutter, which is a scribe and snap operation but much more effective than a craft knife. 4 or 5 scores is usually enough.

 

For curved lines and difficult shapes I use a piercing saw and good quality fine Swiss blades by a firm called Burgeon. I hope I have the spelling right. I get mine from H S Walsh who supply the clock and watch industry. I have a selection of blades for different thicknesses of metal.

 

A metal cutting guillotine can be most useful but expensive and I know you can get snips that don't curl the metal up but I don't have one.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Tony G

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

It was lovely to see you and Mo yesterday when you came to see Retford. Thank you for kindly lending me some stock and converting it to EM. As I said to you, now I am the owner of Retford, my aim is to complete it. A large amount to work has been done on the layout but a lot still needs to be done, particularly in completing the buildings many of which are just mockups. 
 

I admired the layout from the moment I first read about it in MRJ. I was lucky enough to talk to Roy Jackson at an Expo EM exhibition and to my surprise he invited me to visit Retford. On entering the railway shed I was completely captivated by the “train-set” as he called it. It took enormous imagination to visualise a project such as this. He started it not even having anywhere to erect it in full. It even went out on exhibition two or three times which must have been an enormous undertaking.

 

In the marvellous photographs taken by Tony two of the locomotives are mine. The V2 is from a Nucast kit I built and painted during lockdown. It still needs weathering as well as crew and lamps. The A1 “Madge Wildfire” is actually a Hornby “Tornado” converted to EM gauge by changing the bogie and tender wheels but moving the Hornby driving wheels out on their axles to the EM back to back. Other changes have been made including extensive alterations to the tender and new smoke deflectors.

 

Although Roy Jackson was the driving force behind Retford many other people made enormous contributions to the project. I would love them to continue to work on the railway if they feel they can . I appreciate that without Roy it will not be the same but I would like the railway to be finished as a tribute to Roy.

 

Sandra

 

 

 

 

Good evening Sandra,

 

Mo and I thoroughly enjoyed ourselves - what a delicious cake! It was a privilege to be your first 'guests', at a distance, of course. 

 

'two of the locomotives are mine.'

 

And here they are at closer quarters........

 

 

 

You'll have seen these, of course, by email, earlier. 

 

Weathering will certainly give a more 'natural' look, particularly on the V2's motion, and next time I see you I'll give you a sheet of Ian Wilson's front numberplates for the class. 

 

You are to be commended for taking this on, and from conversations I've had, the amount of goodwill is enormous. It would, indeed, be a fitting tribute to a great modeller to see Retford finished. It'll be a privilege to be a little part of that, if I may?

 

David West asked about some DVD footage. Might we try that the next time, please?

 

Kindest regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

16 minutes ago, Jack P said:

What do people use for cutting brass and other metals when scratchbuilding? I'm getting to the stage where I would like to have a go at making my own 'parts' and scoring with a craft knife 100 times to cut through 0.5mm brass surely isn't the most efficient way?

 

I was thinking about straight cut aviation snips (which are effectively tin snips), what else would people recommend?

 

Thanks in advance!

Tony Gee's advice is first class.

 

As well as a piercing saw (which works best if the sheet metal is temporarily stuck to some hardboard to give greater thickness, preventing jamming), I use good quality tinsnips. With regard to the latter, always have the piece you wish to keep, larger than what you're cutting away (even if it means nibbling in stages). Physics dictates that the smaller piece always takes up almost all of any distortion (often curling into a spring). It works! Final dressing can be done with Swiss files....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Michael Edge]

16 minutes ago, Jack P said:

What do people use for cutting brass and other metals when scratchbuilding? I'm getting to the stage where I would like to have a go at making my own 'parts' and scoring with a craft knife 100 times to cut through 0.5mm brass surely isn't the most efficient way?

 

I was thinking about straight cut aviation snips (which are effectively tin snips), what else would people recommend?

 

Thanks in advance!

Scribe and snap for straight lines where possible, I use a scalpel blade ground into a sharp hook shape for this. All rolled material has different properties in each plane, it cracks much more easily in the direction of roll, most brass doesn't crack very well across this direction. For curves and more complex shapes I use a piercing saw but for short straight cuts a good pair of tinsnips is quick and easy - also used for cutting parts out of etched frets. For short precision cuts Xuron ones are by far the best. I do have a small guillotine but it only gets used to nibble small corners out as a rule.

[t-b-g]

41 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Thank you, Sandra, for acquiring Retford (and the property that goes with it!). I doubt it would have survived in any recognisable form, if at all, without you.

 

I first met Roy at a show, Nottingham if I recall correctly, and we had a very good chat. Not long afterwards, I visited Retford with the LNER Society and found it absolutely amazing. I visited almost every year from then onward until 2018. It is a layout where full-length East Coast expresses can really be seen in a proper scale setting, and not many layouts can achieve that. Roy invited me to come to one of the regular mid-week running sessions but it wasn't possible due to my work and the distance involved.

 

I was also very fortunate to be introduced to Sandra by Tony when we visited along with Mark Jenkins (Mark54 on this forum) to run Little Bytham. Tony even left the three of us in charge of it.

 

Photos, or even video, do not really convey the scale of it all. The way I usually describe Retford is that the floor area of the room in which it and Black Lion Crossing live is almost exactly the same as the area of the plot of land on which my house stands - a 3-bedroom house on the London/Surrey border with garage and large railway room in the garden. Retford is around a scale one mile in length if I recall correctly. And there was still room for Geoff Kent's previous layout, Blakeney, as well - that has now been sold.

 

I too hope that Retford can move forward. I think my own contribution is likely to be very small in comparison with others but I have taken a first tentative step in EM by ordering some carriage wheels. One has to start somewhere!  As I wrote in a previous post, it would be good to find the Summer 1957 carriage workings and working timetables but they seem elusive. I have been looking through books and magazines for photos of trains that ran through Retford in the Summer of 1957, and even they seem hard to come by.

 

Something that I believe Sandra missed as she was unable to attend Expo EM that year was Roy's talk on layouts he had been involved with. This was interspersed with lots of anecdotes and a bit of life story. It was excellent and I wish I had been able to record it.

 

Thanks for all that but I must correct you on one thing.

 

There never were regular running sessions.

 

I tried to introduce such sessions several times, both as a way to keep all the mechanical bits moving and also to allow operators to develop their skills and for new operators to learn how to make it all go.

 

As Roy himself had no interest in running trains, he never took up the suggestion. We would turn up for a running day, there would be some new switches or signals, with ambiguous instructions written on, a new version of the sequence that nobody had seen before and Roy would get up tight if the running was less than perfect.

 

It created much hilarity. One time (I wasn't there to see it) I was told he got his shotgun out and announced that the next operator to make a mistake would "get it".

 

If a visitor came a train or two might be sent round but other than the famous "running days" it was only usually used to test new locos or stock.

[Chas Levin]

On 26/07/2020 at 16:55, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon Greenie,

 

I've given details in the past, but I don't think people really get it. The details are not actually as important, as understanding what happens to a locomotive when it enters a curve while pushing a bogie along the track. Once you get that, people are less inclined to chop things off to allow more play in the bogie and look more closely at the benefits of side control.

Hello Andrew, just catching up after a few busy days... Please could you point me at where you've given details about your ideas concerning bogies / curves etc? If it's earlier in this thread I would have read it but many months ago, and it wouldn't have been so relevant to what I was then doing, but I'm about to start building a C12 and would like to read up on this question...

Edited July 29, 2020 by Chas Levin

[Jack P]

Thank you Tony, and also you Tony!

 

TG, Is the Olfa cutter one of the rotary disc ones, or a straight blade?

 

The piercing saw I've got appears to work, but the blade seems to wander, a lot! I wonder if it's the type of blade i'm using?

 

TW, Thank you for the advice, I wouldn't have known about the distorting of metal. 6th form Physics was 10 years ago..

 

9 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

For straight lines, I use an OLFA cutter, which is a scribe and snap operation but much more effective than a craft knife. 4 or 5 scores is usually enough.

 

For curved lines and difficult shapes I use a piercing saw and good quality fine Swiss blades by a firm called Burgeon. I hope I have the spelling right. I get mine from H S Walsh who supply the clock and watch industry. I have a selection of blades for different thicknesses of metal.

 

A metal cutting guillotine can be most useful but expensive and I know you can get snips that don't curl the metal up but I don't have one.

 

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

Tony Gee's advice is first class.

 

As well as a piercing saw (which works best if the sheet metal is temporarily stuck to some hardboard to give greater thickness, preventing jamming), I use good quality tinsnips. With regard to the latter, always have the piece you wish to keep, larger than what you're cutting away (even if it means nibbling in stages). Physics dictates that the smaller piece always takes up almost all of any distortion (often curling into a spring). It works! Final dressing can be done with Swiss files....................

[t-b-g]

6 minutes ago, Jack P said:

Thank you Tony, and also you Tony!

 

TG, Is the Olfa cutter one of the rotary disc ones, or a straight blade?

 

The piercing saw I've got appears to work, but the blade seems to wander, a lot! I wonder if it's the type of blade i'm using?

 

TW, Thank you for the advice, I wouldn't have known about the distorting of metal. 6th form Physics was 10 years ago..

 

 

 

I use to be totally unable to saw in a straight line or follow any sort of curve with the blades I used to buy from model railway show trade stands.

 

Once I got the Swiss blades, I can cut a 6" line dead straight and only touch it with a file to clean it up.

 

I attach a photo showing the packet of blades, the OLFA cutter and my most useful sawbench. Mine was made by the late Malcolm Crawley but any metal or even wooden bench, clamped well to a workbench, makes sawing so much easier.

 

I also attach a couple of examples of complex shapes sawn out using this table and blades.

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Headstock said:

I don't think it would have been to difficult to add the go faster strypes to the loco and tender valances

Model the Western Region! They didn't have 'em...

[Jack P]

27 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I use to be totally unable to saw in a straight line or follow any sort of curve with the blades I used to buy from model railway show trade stands.

 

Thanks so much for the pictures! I've just ordered some of the 'Old gold' Bergeon Blades, hopefully that helps! Do you score the line to be cut, or hold the saw again a flat edge (etc) to guide you through through the cut, or is it done by eye? 

 

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

Scribe and snap for straight lines where possible, I use a scalpel blade ground into a sharp hook shape for this.

 

Thanks Mike, how do you grind them down, and how often do you have to replace them?

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Hello Andrew, just catching up after a few busy days... Please could you point me at where you've given details about your ideas concerning bogies / curves etc? If it's earlier in this thread I would have read it but many months ago, and it wouldn't have been so relevant to what I was then doing, but I'm about to start building a C12 and would like to read up on this question...

 

Good evening Chas,

 

 As an example, a 4-6-0 locomotive running without bogie side control, is effectively a long nosed 0-6-0 pushing a wagon. Depending on their position on the curve, the wagon, lets call it a bogie, and the 0-6-0 chassis are trying to go in different directions. What they are trying to do is jack knife, imagine pushing an un powered chassis along a table top with a unrestrained bogie flopping around up front. What will the bogie be trying to do?

 

The addition of side control prevents the bogie wandering about like an errant child, by returning it to the centreline of the locomotive. The chassis and bogie are now connected, in effect the two are now articulated. Thus the sideplay required to negotiate a curve is transmitted through the length of the locomotives wheelbase. As a result masses of swing is no longer required at the bogie pivot. The errant child is now holding hands with a good parent. Were the child will go, the parent will now follow. The bogie is now guiding the chassis around the curve, so that the two are not fighting to go in different directions.

 

Now consider the traditional long nosed 0-6-0 pushing a bogie. The long nose on the chassis is the first problem, because it is a bad parent, it wants to swing out and hit things. Its child, the bogie is no better, it wants to hit things too, ie the cylinders on the chassis. You can perhaps now see that the unrestrained swing of the two results in a crunch.

 
The errant behaviour of the bogie is tolerated by the modeler, who instead of restraining the bogie, seeks to move objects out of the way that it might hit. For example, chopping bits of the cylinders. The irony is that by removing items that the bogie might hit, the modeler is actually increasing the swing and the tendency to jackknife. 

The reality is, that there is enough side play in the chassis and in the bogie combined, that the locomotive doesn't even need all side play given to an unrestrained bogie, to hit the cylinders. Bogie side control insures that  the chassis and bogie work together. An unrestrained bogie will take all the play that you will give it, whether it needs it or not. This is the point, a bogie with side control uses only the swing that is required to get the locomotive around the curve, This is because it is acting in consort with the side play in the chassis.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Headstock
add para space

[t-b-g]

29 minutes ago, Jack P said:

 

Thanks so much for the pictures! I've just ordered some of the 'Old gold' Bergeon Blades, hopefully that helps! Do you score the line to be cut, or hold the saw again a flat edge (etc) to guide you through through the cut, or is it done by eye? 

 

 

Thanks Mike, how do you grind them down, and how often do you have to replace them?

 

Sometimes, like the cab sides shown above, I stick a sacrificial copy of a drawing to the metal with a glue stick and cut to the drawing. Not the best engineering practice ever seen but it works for difficult shapes like those.

 

Otherwise I blacken the metal with a marker pen and cut to a lightly scribed line by eye. The usual advice is to cut just outside the line and clean up to the line with a file.

 

Sometimes I get cocky and cut right up to the line. It is one of those tasks that once you get over any fears or doubts about what you are doing, you find that it can become almost a case of developing a feel for just how close and accurately you can cut. When all is going well, I hardly need to clean up or use a file. A wipe with fine wet and dry paper is enough.

[pete55]

4 hours ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

 I would love them to continue to work on the railway if they feel they can . I appreciate that without Roy it will not be the same but I would like the railway to be finished as a tribute to Roy.

 

Sandra

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Sandra,

I think t-b-g mentioned to you in a telephone conversation recently that the Anglo Scottish Car Carrier and Silver Fox are sat in a box under a bed here, and after a quick service are ready to return to Retford.

So when current circumstances allow I look forward to bringing it back home as it were!

 

Pete Hill

 

[Headstock]

57 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Model the Western Region! They didn't have 'em...

 

Gresley Was Right, the lack of go faster stripes on the GWR/WR is of no surprise to me at all.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

Sometimes, like the cab sides shown above, I stick a sacrificial copy of a drawing to the metal with a glue stick and cut to the drawing. Not the best engineering practice ever seen but it works for difficult shapes like those.

If it's good enough for @Michael Edge it's good enough for the rest of us!

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Chas,

 

 As an example, a 4-6-0 locomotive running without bogie side control, is effectively a long nosed 0-6-0 pushing a wagon. Depending on their position on the curve, the wagon, lets call it a bogie, and the 0-6-0 chassis are trying to go in different directions. What they are trying to do is jack knife, imagine pushing an un powered chassis along a table top with a unrestrained bogie flopping around up front. What will the bogie be trying to do?

 

The addition of side control prevents the bogie wandering about like an errant child, by returning it to the centreline of the locomotive. The chassis and bogie are now connected, in effect the two are now articulated. Thus the sideplay required to negotiate a curve is transmitted through the length of the locomotives wheelbase. As a result masses of swing is no longer required at the bogie pivot. The errant child is now holding hands with a good parent. Were the child will go, the parent will now follow. The bogie is now guiding the chassis around the curve, so that the two are not fighting to go in different directions.

 

Now consider the traditional long nosed 0-6-0 pushing a bogie. The long nose on the chassis is the first problem, because it is a bad parent, it wants to swing out and hit things. Its child, the bogie is no better, it wants to hit things too, ie the cylinders on the chassis. You can perhaps now see that the unrestrained swing of the two results in a crunch.

 
The errant behaviour of the bogie is tolerated by the modeler, who instead of restraining the bogie, seeks to move objects out of the way that it might hit. For example, chopping bits of the cylinders. The irony is that by removing items that the bogie might hit, the modeler is actually increasing the swing and the tendency to jackknife. 

The reality is, that there is enough side play in the chassis and in the bogie combined, that the locomotive doesn't even need all side play given to an unrestrained bogie, to hit the cylinders. Bogie side control insures that  the chassis and bogie work together. An unrestrained bogie will take all the play that you will give it, whether it needs it or not. This is the point, a bogie with side control uses only the swing that is required to get the locomotive around the curve, This is because it is acting in consort with the side play in the chassis.

A very good way of describing it Andrew.