Wright writes.....

[MikeTrice]

57 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Mike,

 

apologies for the protracted reply, the thread moves fast but I have finished the roof. Unfortunately, I seem to have accidentally deleted the original roof folder, however I did find two images that illustrate the basic idea.....

 

Thank you. Brilliant and worth the wait.

[PMP]

11 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

You would have to wishlist it for a couple of years first.

Wishlist what?

[Headstock]

2 minutes ago, PMP said:

Wishlist what?

 

The streamlined twins, that the conversation that you were commenting on was all about.

[robertcwp]

26 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

The West Riding is an obvious starting point. I'm not totally up to speed with its formation in 1957. On its introduction, it was rather big and beautiful, with the Thompson stock complimenting the twins rather well. I assume some of the twins survived in the late fifties?

There was a BSO-SO twin at the front going north, then a Mark 1 FO, then a RSO-SO twin. This lot were all maroon by mid-1957. There is a photo in one of the Blenkinsop books.

[robertcwp]

37 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Hello Robert,

 

Any idea how it got back to Aberdeen, if not attached to the corresponding down working? I've previously tried to fathom this out, to no avail. Of interest to me as my Dad models this train on his Aberdeen layout and I have previously 'threatened' to build this twin for him! As a related question, would the catering crew have stayed with the vehicles or made their way back 'on the cushions'? Or maybe it was an Edinburgh-based working, with the vehicles / crew making their way to Aberdeen in the afternoon?

The answer for Summer 1948 is probably in here if you follow all the working through.

[PMP]

25 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

The streamlined twins, that the conversation that you were commenting on was all about.

 

Well if you followed the thread you'd notice that your comment immediately followed one by @micklner referencing RTR locomotives. Perhaps you should have clarified that you were only referring to streamline twins to prevent any potential misunderstanding.

 

Meanwhile here's 2009 or thereabouts a RTR rat on the layout. I wonder if it might be a good idea to have a specific Retford thread in this section of the forum. There will undoubtedly be interested readers not aware its under discussion here, and would provide a nice easy to follow and flowing thread in its own right as this has been for Tony's Little Bytham

[pete55]

Nice one Paul, Rastus the rat and my EM Thomas!!

Edited August 3, 2020 by pete55

[Headstock]

16 minutes ago, PMP said:

 

Well if you followed the thread you'd notice that your comment immediately followed one by @micklner referencing RTR locomotives. Perhaps you should have clarified that you were only referring to streamline twins to prevent any potential misunderstanding.

 

Meanwhile here's 2009 or thereabouts a RTR rat on the layout. I wonder if it might be a good idea to have a specific Retford thread in this section of the forum. There will undoubtedly be interested readers not aware its under discussion here, and would provide a nice easy to follow and flowing thread in its own right as this has been for Tony's Little Bytham

 

 

Mick was talking about the twins, in reply to Roberts post. You know that is the truth.

[Headstock]

41 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

There was a BSO-SO twin at the front going north, then a Mark 1 FO, then a RSO-SO twin. This lot were all maroon by mid-1957. There is a photo in one of the Blenkinsop books.

 

Thanks Robert,

 

I think I remember the photo, I will have a look later.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Robert,

 

It would make sense to produce a set of etches for the streamlined stock, I don't think that a whole kit would be required, sides and ends would do. Everything else is available, or could very simply be scratch built. Again, I'm sure that the talent exist within the Retford team to do something of this nature and would be of great interest to many.

 

Good Afternoon Andrew,

 

Worsley have recently added two of the streamlined trains to their site - perhaps of use? Although it doesn't mention being able to order portions as opposed to the full set.

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_LNER.htm

 

 

[Porcy Mane]

25 minutes ago, PMP said:

Meanwhile here's 2009 or thereabouts a RTR rat on the layout.

 

 

That's the first time I've spotted the mouse on a Cuneo!

[Chuffer Davies]

17 minutes ago, PMP said:

 

Well if you followed the thread you'd notice that your comment immediately followed one by @micklner referencing RTR locomotives. Perhaps you should have clarified that you were only referring to streamline twins to prevent any potential misunderstanding.

 

Meanwhile here's 2009 or thereabouts a RTR rat on the layout. I wonder if it might be a good idea to have a specific Retford thread in this section of the forum. There will undoubtedly be interested readers not aware its under discussion here, and would provide a nice easy to follow and flowing thread in its own right as this has been for Tony's Little Bytham

I can’t personally see the advantage of starting a new thread.  This thread, whilst hosted by Tony (W), is not limited to Little Bytham nor is it solely the domain of Sir.  Many of the contributors here and the topics covered would undoubtedly overlap if there were a new thread.  In fact, would a new thread actually result in a migration of contributors away from WW to the new Retford thread?  I think it might.

What do others think?

 

Regards,

Frank

[t-b-g]

24 minutes ago, PMP said:

 

Well if you followed the thread you'd notice that your comment immediately followed one by @micklner referencing RTR locomotives. Perhaps you should have clarified that you were only referring to streamline twins to prevent any potential misunderstanding.

 

Meanwhile here's 2009 or thereabouts a RTR rat on the layout. I wonder if it might be a good idea to have a specific Retford thread in this section of the forum. There will undoubtedly be interested readers not aware its under discussion here, and would provide a nice easy to follow and flowing thread in its own right as this has been for Tony's Little Bytham

 

I suggested a "Retford" thread on RMWeb to Roy once.

 

Anybody want to guess the response?

 

It is probably enough to say that I kept most of my anatomy and the thread didn't happen.

 

He had a number of concerns, including too many people knowing too much about what was going on when he preferred much of what went on to be "under he radar" and also that he thought that too much exposure would lessen the impact when the completed layout was finally revealed.

 

I remember his reaction when somebody posted a photo after a running day with a caption along the lines of "I wonder how much this lot is worth?". 

 

So he liked to limit exposure in the magazines and the web to occasional updates.

 

How Sandra feels about such things from now on is very much up to her but that was how he saw it.

 

I have very mixed feelings about it. I can understand what Roy was thinking but there must also be a great deal of pleasure to be had from being able to share such a layout with a wider audience. 

 

 

[Headstock]

21 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

I can’t personally see the advantage of starting a new thread.  This thread, whilst hosted by Tony (W), is not limited to Little Bytham nor is it solely the domain of Sir.  Many of the contributors here and the topics covered would undoubtedly overlap if there were a new thread.  In fact, would a new thread actually result in a migration of contributors away from WW to the new Retford thread?  I think it might.

What do others think?

 

Regards,

Frank

 

Good morning Frank,

 

such a thread may exclude a lot of people, whether that is the intention or not. Wright writes may wither and die as a place where anybody of any ability can post their work and the making of things is celebrated. No such other thread exists on RM web.

 

I'm not against such a thread though, it's none of my business what Retford people want to do.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Headstock

[Atso]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

If the TV series did inspire some to take up railway modelling, then I'm not going to argue with the merit of that. 

 

However (always an 'however'), I can't see that interest lasting more than a short time, because nowhere did I see an attempt to 'educate' folk in the disciplines of actual railway modelling. 

 

I know this has been discussed before, and it's probably best to let it 'die' naturally, but nowhere were the cornerstones of diligent research, observation of the prototype, the value of spending time (often lots of it) and the aim of producing something which looked like the real thing ever mentioned. It was just a mass of gimmicks, built-in jeopardy, arguments and rushing through something against the tyranny of time. If newcomers think that's the way to go in building a model railway, then, please, stop the world and let me off!

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I understand (and to an extent agree with) your point of view. However, Channel Five's focus is to create a programme that will drive viewing figures upward. Therefore, I think that they have focused on showing the hobby as something 'fun' to the masses. If they focused on educating folk on 'actual railway modelling', I think that the viewing figures would be lower and we'd likely lose a great resource for encouraging future generations into the hobby.

I think that the (unpalatable to some) starting point that the programme promotes is irrelevant; if the newcomer becomes enthused, they will likely expand their knowledge base and may turn to more prototypical layouts in the future.

 

I say this because of my experience of Dancing on Ice while I was a coach and (later) Assistant Manager of a rink. As a programme, I hate it; it doesn't portray competitive figure skating, makes up its own terminology, it pushes the celebrity participants at a far faster pace than I would ever be comfortable with. However, it brought people through the doors in droves and filled out the beginner group learn to skate courses to capacity. From that point, I (and other coaches) could gently work on changing the preconceptions of the new skaters and guide them towards safer and more realistic goals. Many were happy to simply learn to skate and had no interest in tests or competitions, but the show, in my experience, ultimately generated more people interested in pursuing a competitive career than was being generated without it. I ended up viewing the programme as a necessary evil which created much needed regular footfall to potentially develop into more knowledgeable 'proper skaters' later.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Atso

[Tom F]

2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

This was one of the RT/BTO twins used for supper service on the up Aberdonian sleeper. Most of the ex-streamliner stock was restored to service in 1948 and was repainted in pre-war colours but without the individual train branding. Crimson and cream livery was not introduced until 1949 and the three ex-West Riding Limited twins that went into the post-war West Riding carried crimson and cream as the train was one of those that launched the livery in service. 

 

Interesting decision in 1948 to repaint them into their original colours when never intended to run in their original formations again (or was there a plan to reintroduce the pre war sets?)

 

Must have been an interesting sight to see random silver or blue stock in a otherwise teak formation.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Hawin Dooiey

[LNER4479]

4 minutes ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

 

Interesting decision in 1948 to repaint them into their original colours when never intended to run in their original formations again (or was there a plan to reintroduce the pre war sets?)

 

Must have been as interesting sight in a train to see random silver or blue stock.

Was it not the case that they were placed into storage 1938-1945 and therefore no repainting took place? In 1948 they were still as the LNER had painted them in 1937!

[Tom F]

Just now, LNER4479 said:

Was it not the case that they were placed into storage 1938-1945 and therefore no repainting took place? In 1948 they were still as the LNER had painted them in 1937!

 

Ah forgive me, I read restored in @robertcwp's post and misconstrued as repainted.

[Porcy Mane]

32 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I remember his reaction when somebody posted a photo after a running day with a caption along the lines of "I wonder how much this lot is worth?". 

 

That is why I am personally surprised that a lot of "air time" has been expounded (more so at the people doing it., me included) on a publicly viewable forum.

 

It's pretty well known that internet forums are used by the more unscrupulous members of society to gauge if people are at home (or not). From a security and insurance point of view alone, I fully agreed with Roy's policies.

 

As has been said, It's fantastic news that Retford has been saved and we all owe Sandra a debt for the undoubted sacrifices made allowing the layout to survive in its existing form. I think there may be some hard non model railway decisions to be made in the future and the type of publicity it is given will be one of those.

 

P

[robertcwp]

29 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Was it not the case that they were placed into storage 1938-1945 and therefore no repainting took place? In 1948 they were still as the LNER had painted them in 1937!

I read somewhere that they were repainted. From the few photos available, they looked pristine.

[Atso]

43 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

You are dead right. Channel Five is for entertainment, not education.

 

If you want to be enthused about  railway modelling, then Kathy Millatt's YouTube channel is a great next step. And there are so many other wonderful YouTubesters that do a much better job than any TV programme ever would.

 

 

I agree that Kathy's Youtube videos are an excellent source of techniques and inspiration. I think that there is a lot to be said about print articles as well - especially the older ones.

As for education, I've found that Tony, the Grantham team and many others are very informative on that front. From their encouragement, I decided that the reason why I was always dissatisfied with my layout attempts was because they were freelance. My first visit to Tony's to operate Little Bytham clinched the deal and I began researching Hadley Wood. With the shift to modelling a prototype came an interest in working timetables, carriage books, spotters books/notes and a more disciplined approach to my locomotive choices. I can honestly say that I've learnt more about the LNER in the last three years than I had in the previous twenty! I don't think I would have become interested in these things had it not be for the likes of Tony, but I think I also had to have reached a point where I was ready, and willing, to take the next step (in this particular direction).

[Chamby]

2 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

I can’t personally see the advantage of starting a new thread.  This thread, whilst hosted by Tony (W), is not limited to Little Bytham nor is it solely the domain of Sir.  Many of the contributors here and the topics covered would undoubtedly overlap if there were a new thread.  In fact, would a new thread actually result in a migration of contributors away from WW to the new Retford thread?  I think it might.

What do others think?

 

Regards,

Frank

 

I’m not one of The Retford Mob but I get the impression that most of them loiter in this thread anyway, and most  other Wright Writes groupies such as myself would like to follow a Retford thread as well.  Given that Tony feels that his development of LB has almost come to an end, and is keen to help out with Retford I have no problem in this thread keeping us educated about more than one layout.  It’s all about learning and sharing this hobby of ours after all.  
 

Another thread would create yet another bookmark for us all to look up every time we log on!  But I fully understand and respect if Sandra wants to take the lead at some time and set the direction and tone for a Retford focused thread, but I’m guessing that she might have other priorities at the moment!

[grahame]

4 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

I can’t personally see the advantage of starting a new thread.  This thread, whilst hosted by Tony (W), is not limited to Little Bytham nor is it solely the domain of Sir.  Many of the contributors here and the topics covered would undoubtedly overlap if there were a new thread.  In fact, would a new thread actually result in a migration of contributors away from WW to the new Retford thread?  I think it might.

 

 

It shouldn't be a problem if content overlaps - it already does on many threads on RMweb. And it is perfectly acceptable to bookmark as a favourite, visit and post on multiple threads on RMweb. I don't see why anyone would or should be excluded from it as with WW.

 

For me it's a great idea to start a separate thread on Retford. That way all info, pics, development and comment about it would be in one place rather than spread around various threads or interspersed amongst other topics in WW.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by grahame

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

I read somewhere that they were repainted. From the few photos available, they looked pristine.

 

Well it would not be the first time that works were instructed to use up supplies of paint before changing to a new livery.  Given the post war austerity, I could see that if there were stocks of the blue paint it would have been first choice.  

[Denbridge]

4 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

The streamlined twins, that the conversation that you were commenting on was all about.

Worsley works produce etches for some of the streamline stock. The West Riding and jubilee carriages, from memory.