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2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Thanks for this. I see it is listed on the Eileen's Emporium website, along with several other blackening products, but the site does not state which one is for any particular metal. I found I had a Birchwood Casey Super Black instant touch-up pen in my drawer, which I bought from Eileen's some years ago (it still has the price sticker £8 on it) but I never used it. It is stated to be for anodized aluminium and possibly won't work on other metals. I was also put off by the notice "This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer."  I might stick to shiny couplings and bars for now.

 

It is nasty stuff but like many things we do in the hobby, it is only a problem if you don't take proper care.

 

I haven't tried a pen but I know somebody who did and said it was great but tended to dry up quickly and he thinks that they may be discontinued now as he tried to buy another one recently and is struggling to find one.

 

 

 

   

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13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

261338318_60105small.jpg.fdeaaafd5924e1c316362f4b1e038cf8.jpg

 

Another 1950s scene, this time on the main line near Retford (exactly where, I'm not sure). I can't detect any lining on the leading car (which is Thompson PV stock), but the loco has AWS so I suspect it's in maroon.

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

Following the accident at Harrow and Wealdstone, 60105 was one of five class A3 locomotives to received ATC in January / February 1953.  You may also notice that the locomotive is fitted with frame mounted guard irons, this would preclude BR maroon carriages from the train.

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10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon David,

 

'Obviously care are must be taken with "photographic evidence" as some captions are a work of fiction. In one of the books I've got (can't remember the name ) a huge number of the A4's are report hauling the Elizabethan, which is very unlikely based on the coaches behind the tender.'

 

This is a conundrum which has made my captioning of pictures of the 'Lizzie' very difficult, especially when no actual date is provided on the print.

 

'Officially', 'The Elizabethan' only ran from Monday to Friday in the summer timetable. The set also ran on Saturdays, but was strengthened by at least two/three cars towards the north end (these could be almost any type). The same A4s were used and should have carried the headboard reversed. The train was not non-stop.

 

The same A4s were also used on a Sunday, but not the set (which would be cleaned/maintained on that day). The Sunday train was made up of all sorts of jumbled stock, and was usually longer. Again, the headboard should have been reversed. 

 

Some of these pictures have probably appeared before, though the same questions keep on cropping up......

 

18889507_A460025York28_08_60.jpg.efc1b46b3345ea9e45302b0b2e055e67.jpg

 

1329050580_A460027York28_08_60.jpg.df21e027fbfe28b38afac9892a8663b8.jpg

 

Both these pictures, taken on the same day, show the Saturday train in the summer of 1960, at York. It would seem that Top Shed's crew has decided that the train should be actually named. There are two extra cars behind the Aberdeen portion behind FALCON, a Gresley and a Mk.1.

 

Haymarket's crew on MERLIN have correctly reversed the 'board. Again, this rake has been strengthened, including a car in carmine/cream, and the leading BG has been replaced by what looks like a Mk.1 BSO. And, the leading FK is not PV, so won't have a ladies' retiring room.

 

1553702256_60030SaturdayElizabethan.jpg.b2b1112524f0d6f684365d7999246a0e.jpg

 

Another shot of a Saturday 'Lizzie', with correct way round headboard. This time the BG is a Mk.1 rather than one of the trio of Thompsons, and there is at least one car in c/c towards the rear. Note the 'correct' FK as second car in the rake, its covered solebars being very distinct. Beware this kind of detail, though. Because the covering of the solebars created a moisture trap and thus corrosion, there's evidence that some of the PV cars had the covers cut away later in their life. Oh, those joys of 'coach-picking'.  

 

1684142296_60012SundayElizabethanworking1958.jpg.c169bda91e259ec229c2e1701e60664b.jpg

 

This is a Sunday working in 1958, approaching Retford. A very jumbled rake indeed, at least 13 cars-long. Correctly, the 'board is reversed, but it's when it's not, on workings such as this, which causes confusion. 

 

That said, it's wonderful images like these which make my own personal model-making so interesting.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Excuse the reference to a couple of pages back, but would someone kindly explain why a headboard would be displayed backwards? My logic is that if the name of the service is not displayed, then the presence of a headboard is essentially moot, and the board itself could ride ‘on the cushions’, but that must not be the case. 


thanks in advance,

Andrew

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11 hours ago, queensquare said:

On my model of Bath I dont have the space for Lyncombe Vale so only have the north portal of Devonshire tunnel and the south portal of Combe Down - the twin tunnels are just the one! So, to be prototypical the banker should drop off whilst in the tunnel and drop back down to Bath. My other option is to run the train all the way through to the fiddle yard with the banker, then run it back. The Bath side of the layout is still very much a work in progress but I would like to include bankers, at least on some of the freights.

Jerry, why not drop the banker before it enters Devonshire Tunnel? That's still a decent run from Bath Junction.

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4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Alternatively - put "Not for sale in California" on the packs!

 

John Isherwood.

 

I'm happy to properly inform the buyers that there may be concerns. What they do with it later is then their risk instead of mine. I regularly CNC machine cut rail into points, but I wouldn't dream of grinding any of it and making dust. Governments only just figured out that the unfortunate workers who make "granite substitute" type kitchen worktops have been breathing in as much quartz dust as if they were coal miners.

 

See https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=243&tid=44

 

When I was just a kid, I helped my father hand saw a 3 x 2 sheet of 1/2"  asbestos to fit into our home airing cupboard to support a new copper hot water tank. I'm sure he would have used something else if it had been labelled as dangerous 60 years ago

 

Andy

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8 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The front end of this one looks like the Norseman formation as it was the only train I can find that had the combination FO, RF, RSP, SO. The preponderance of maroon suggests it's later than 1957. In the Summer 1958 workings, the Saturday train was strengthened to 12 but the additions are shown at the front. I don't have the Summer 1959 or Summer 1960 East Coast workings and the workings had changed a lot by 1961. Nevertheless, I think a strengthened Saturday Norseman is the most likely train.

Thanks Robert,

 

Most of the prototype pictures I've shown of late do not have an accurate date; '1950s' being typical. However, it's known that many of the photographers were out mainly at weekends and bank holidays.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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6 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

Following the accident at Harrow and Wealdstone, 60105 was one of five class A3 locomotives to received ATC in January / February 1953.  You may also notice that the locomotive is fitted with frame mounted guard irons, this would preclude BR maroon carriages from the train.

Full marks for observation, Andrew,

 

Many thanks. 

 

The presence (or not) of frame-mounted guard irons on locos is one way I date photographs, so why did I miss this? The Thompson car is definitely still in ersatz teak, then. And, several of the other cars will still be in teak as well. 

 

It's comments, the like of which you make which makes this thread so interesting and informative. As you know, Robert Carroll is assisting Sandra Orpen in the making-up of prototype trains for Retford in 1957 (a little later than your preferred period, I know), and accurately-dating pictures is essential to that process.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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5 hours ago, foster104 said:


Excuse the reference to a couple of pages back, but would someone kindly explain why a headboard would be displayed backwards? My logic is that if the name of the service is not displayed, then the presence of a headboard is essentially moot, and the board itself could ride ‘on the cushions’, but that must not be the case. 


thanks in advance,

Andrew

Good morning Andrew,

 

I think the 'superfluous' headboards were carried by the locos to ensure that they were available for the next working when they were required, ensuring they didn't get 'lost'. In the case of the 'Lizzie', very often the same locos (particularly those from 64B) would work the service for weeks on end, and the headboard stayed with the locos all the time. 

 

It was also the case with other locos/trains. My observations at Retford during an August week in 1960 saw MERRY HAMPTON work the Down morning 'Talisman' on at least three days out of five (I wasn't present on the Tuesday or the Thursday. It would take the train as far as Newcastle (interestingly, previously an EE Type 4 diagram, but the under-powered and overweight D200s weren't up to it!), though what the loco's return working was I don't know. I'll bet the loco carried the 'board back with it, reversed. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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9 hours ago, robertcwp said:

 "This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer."  I might stick to shiny couplings and bars for now.

 

I recall sitting in a bar in South Korea in 2000/2001 and reading the label on a can of Coca (or Pepsi?) Cola:

 

" This product has been linked with a higher incidence of Cancer in Lab. Rats"  (or words to that effect).

Also:

 

"Made in the USA"

 

I did note that the same stuff in the UK had no such warning.

 

On a visit to the same place last year the cans have no such warning, so either the link has been disproved or the ingredients changed.

 

edit:  Why do such products not state on the label:  "Repeated use of this product will make your teeth fall out, rot, and/or make you overweight......."

Edited by polybear
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11 hours ago, CF MRC said:

And now for something completely different:

A4C3DA62_300C_4E85_864E_64A5490AD834.jpe
Thrirty five years since I made the previous one -there is a bit more to it than seen here...


Tim

Lovely stuff, Tim,

 

I assume this complements Caledonian Road Station?

 

1843917187_11CopenhagenFieldslayout3.jpg.01b4b8570a55ccdab7c81481b2ebc7c2.jpg

 

Perfection in miniature?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited by Tony Wright
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1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

I recall sitting in a bar in South Korea in 2000/2001 and reading the label on a can of Coca (or Pepsi?) Cola:

 

" This product has been linked with a higher incidence of Cancer in Lab. Rats"  (or words to that effect).

Also:

 

"Made in the USA"

 

I did note that the same stuff in the UK had no such warning.

 

On a visit to the same place last year the cans have no such warning, so either the link has been disproved or the ingredients changed.

 

edit:  Why do such products not state on the label:  "Repeated use of this product will make your teeth fall out, rot, and/or make you overweight......."

 

They changed the ingredients - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9134453/Coke-and-Pepsi-to-change-formula.html

 

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10 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Political correctness gone mad !! ..... and politicians are paid (our) good money to dream up this madness !!

 

The best one in the UK at present is that, if roadworks use temporary traffic lights, there has to be a (at least) two man gang, sitting in a vehicle equipped with a spare set of temporary traffic lights, at all times that the first set of lights are in operation - just in case they fail!!!

 

Now that is a job I could do - even at the age of 70+.

 

John Isherwood.

 

John Isherwood.

 

John, I think the spare lights and van/pick-up are because the provision of traffic lights and other guarding cones, signs etc at temporary works is often undertaken by specialist contractors. They design the roadworks guarding plan which is submitted to the highway authority and as the people actually doing the works are not traffic light specialist they stay on site to ensure that there is minimal disruption if the lights fail. All of this work was previously undertaken by the road contractors / Local authority / Utility but not very often  now, it does cost eye watering amounts of money which someone picks up the tab for. 

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Now here's something thats been puzzling me from Peter Costers GN book where it covers Sandy. Look at the length of the headshunt this side of the points, I don't think you'd even fit a 16 tonner in it..  Was it truncated, or wasn't there room for two buffer stops? Curious... something for the 'prototype for everything' department!

IMG_4514.JPG.ad50d8ae0b3b1811ab37818c3ee9612c.JPG

 

Tony

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7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Jerry, why not drop the banker before it enters Devonshire Tunnel? That's still a decent run from Bath Junction.

 

Thats the plan at the moment. It would give the right impression and its also the summit of the gradient at home - the Midland passes underneath at this point out of sight. The problem is that I need to be able to reliably uncouple the banker, in a cutting, on the move, with the rest of the train on a hidden 2' radius curve in a tunnel. What could possibly go wrong........!

 

Jerry

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32 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Now here's something thats been puzzling me from Peter Costers GN book where it covers Sandy. Look at the length of the headshunt this side of the points, I don't think you'd even fit a 16 tonner in it..  Was it truncated, or wasn't there room for two buffer stops? Curious... something for the 'prototype for everything' department!

 

 

Tony

 

It seems to have been a smidgeon longer in 1900 but by 1924 the signalbox had been built across the end - note how the path across the end of the platform is still a boardwalk behind the buffer stop. The angled locking room wall is presumably to keep the pathway clear. Was the signalbox built on top of the track? And what's that LNER engine doing on the North Western line?

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40 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Now here's something thats been puzzling me from Peter Costers GN book where it covers Sandy. Look at the length of the headshunt this side of the points, I don't think you'd even fit a 16 tonner in it..  Was it truncated, or wasn't there room for two buffer stops? Curious... something for the 'prototype for everything' department!

IMG_4514.JPG.ad50d8ae0b3b1811ab37818c3ee9612c.JPG

 

Tony

 

Hi Tony,

 

Wasn't Sandy a shared station site with the LMS? Could the 'head shunt' actually be a protective measure for the mainlines in the event of an incident during a shunting move with the buffer stop providing a level of protection for the signal box?

Edited by Atso
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4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It seems to have been a smidgeon longer in 1900 but by 1924 the signalbox had been built across the end - note how the path across the end of the platform is still a boardwalk behind the buffer stop. The angled locking room wall is presumably to keep the pathway clear. Was the signalbox built on top of the track? And what's that LNER engine doing on the North Western line?

Hi Stephen

 

After nationalisation some trains were worked by Cambridge based locomotives. Both D16s and B12 would work as far as Oxford. Even into diesel days, until the closure of the Bedford  to Cambridge section Brush Type 2s and ER Cravens units would be regularly seen.

 

As for the short piece of track it was part of the exchange sidings between the LNWR and the GNR, was it ever used.....over to "burnt on the edges Dave" as he is a native of Sandy.

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12 minutes ago, Atso said:

 

Hi Tony,

 

Wasn't Sandy a shared station site with the LMS? Could the 'head shunt' actually be a protective measure for the mainlines in the event of an incident during a shunting move with the buffer stop providing a level of protection for the signal box?

 

DELETED

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46 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Now here's something thats been puzzling me from Peter Costers GN book where it covers Sandy. Look at the length of the headshunt this side of the points, I don't think you'd even fit a 16 tonner in it..  Was it truncated, or wasn't there room for two buffer stops? Curious... something for the 'prototype for everything' department!

IMG_4514.JPG.ad50d8ae0b3b1811ab37818c3ee9612c.JPG

 

Tony

 

This arrangement allows two separate headshunts to use the same set of buffers where space is limited.  Running in on one road, and out on the other is not possible, but either road can be used... not at the same time of course.

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1 hour ago, dibateg said:

Now here's something thats been puzzling me from Peter Costers GN book where it covers Sandy. Look at the length of the headshunt this side of the points, I don't think you'd even fit a 16 tonner in it..  Was it truncated, or wasn't there room for two buffer stops? Curious... something for the 'prototype for everything' department!

IMG_4514.JPG.ad50d8ae0b3b1811ab37818c3ee9612c.JPG

 

Tony

Probably camera lens distortion but it also looks like a prototype for when your signal box looks like a card kit and was not planted completely plumb.

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12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Political correctness gone mad !! ..... and politicians are paid (our) good money to dream up this madness !!

 

The best one in the UK at present is that, if roadworks use temporary traffic lights, there has to be a (at least) two man gang, sitting in a vehicle equipped with a spare set of temporary traffic lights, at all times that the first set of lights are in operation - just in case they fail!!!

 

Now that is a job I could do - even at the age of 70+.

 

John Isherwood.

 

John Isherwood.

 

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2 hours ago, jollysmart said:

 

John, I think the spare lights and van/pick-up are because the provision of traffic lights and other guarding cones, signs etc at temporary works is often undertaken by specialist contractors. They design the roadworks guarding plan which is submitted to the highway authority and as the people actually doing the works are not traffic light specialist they stay on site to ensure that there is minimal disruption if the lights fail. All of this work was previously undertaken by the road contractors / Local authority / Utility but not very often  now, it does cost eye watering amounts of money which someone picks up the tab for. 

 

This is going a bit off topic,  but as someone who regularly has lights provided they tend to come with one man who monitors the traffic flow and changes the light changing frequency to keep thr trsffic flowing. This is especially on major roads where traffic flow in each direction can vary during the day.

 

Edit -  For those that think it's an easy job you would not like the abuse and threats directed towards these workmen, I have been amazed that even when drivers don't have to wait for the lights they still open windows and hurl abuse.

Edited by chris p bacon
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On 11/08/2020 at 11:04, Barry Ten said:

 

pressflos.jpg.c808235176cac9582f417fde80dab542.jpg

 

These are three Dapol ones that run as a fixed rake with 3-links in the middle and Spratt & Winkles on the end. It is a slight fiddle to couple up the 3-links but once done, they don't need to be touched as long as the wagons are on the layout.

 

I find Spratt & Winkles work well for me (with brass blackening) but I can't fit more than about three wagons in an evening. To get around that, I make up fixed rakes with intermediate 3-links wherever possible, some up to 10 wagons long.

 

I also recommend making a fitting jig:

 

jig1.jpg

 

And then throwing it away as it'll prove totally useless.

 

Al

Thank you, 

 

Looking for couplings is there a "best" make or are they all pretty much the same? 

 

Regards Richard 

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