Wright writes.....

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, Buhar said:

Hi Mick, 

How did you do that, then? I thought the N-Drive had a huge shaft with a D-shape.

Alan 

Alan this is an N Drive motor

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Drive-1015-12v-DC-micro-motor/182870714017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

You're thinking of the N20 with the D shaft

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-100RPM-Mini-Metal-Gear-Motor-with-Gearwheel-N20-3mm-Shaft-Diameter-UK/164316569047?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item264207ddd7:g:L44AAOSwvrRfJR9B&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkfOCvCjTOBWK8pwriaolq5mKkl1KrpydSO9Gsq3AImi2lfodpeuDS6rD9ARGo4fkxRpffxH5ZaRuEVUAAp3KKdIpV3C%2FRV5yQb8VvDjS1dZ5pgsZ%2BjDRPPFO9xKjh50tsjN3GOhoVtomh1uSoTURhUeWPNc9HxZHUPE6bluhIQXOIV7G9cUlSaI3A35jTrCkKE7%2FzyiHNISjgjrBwZn0i1VH%2FMhTx7obliupgx4jWS%2F%2FlOIWx8eWAeVcheOQm%2FPIF99QEkaSGgGURE1NKjfe%2BOkFZhx5IT396IQsCQLftOGME78uizQXzBBgLLJhBfj6JE15phwSWCAgQo7J2xetb0a8bQzR8ucuMeL4xooVqycNYm9q4dgMXy5TCr5IpWjC9d7tljS%2Fle9JGpvZuyGT0EzeRM4bZxanyIpn2zySgqO7N66EGPm5e6xC4UDal7Ct7VgDsIjVIsjPPW4RJx9P94nBf5jqqfeXg2rkoPwcaewg9Qm%2FgiLVwboRWujzwqZLd9RifNDG6qUmfoJqWLACnBSyn1zH0L8g2FQl0f2%2BAP%2BTHlszAUKIgGbx%2F1ATrhXTEFXeZOzDCRX%2F%2F9E%2FjDoHVpkG1f2siCkUXE6HzsBd%2BwDQmDCjh%2FZOsvZbBexvKI2LBZgs7HdFvpVmU1PigrS2BLB7ra2kMWXzPNQJ%2Fb%2FeVy6XW06Sjqs%2FLmbo%2FTmWWerzCzKWqwSgnnhaQd70VlPAjmolGKkdebjplrB6JCgZdZPMqYnFneyqgHcyoXKNdlSrw|cksum%3A1643165690479d3050b6f76f4ce79d172d108676e537|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

 

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

Though I don't think I could ever build a 'showcase' loco. No matter how long I spent on it.

 

I suppose this is the nearest, at least in 4mm Scale...........................

 

 

I built this P2 for Mark Allatt. It's a much-modified ACE kit, and what 'makes' it is Ian Rathbone's breathtaking painting. 

 

In a way, it is a 'showcase' model, because that's where Mark keeps it. Though it has run on Grantham (for which I actually built it; it being a 'layout loco'), Mark never lets it out now. A pity, because it'll go like stink! 

 

No.2002 is indeed a fine loco and Ian's paint job is second-to-none.

 

Notwithstanding, here's the loco of yours that I think is closest to a 'showcase' model - it might surprise you:

I'm sure you can find a better picture of it.

 

This loco DOES run regularly on Grantham, now it is part of Jonathan's stud. It just seems to have a certain finesse about it and always a joy to see when it appears 'round the front' at a show.

 

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Clem said:

Lol (as they say). We talk about the locomotive pulling a train because in the direction of travel, the force for forward propulsion - the locomotive -  is ahead of the train. But technically, Frank's argument applied to this case is correct as the inside of the loco's rear screw coupling is *pushing* the inside of the leading vehicle's 3-link or screw coupling and it becomes a train of many push points. But in an every day non-technical terms we look at the location of the energy source providing the force for movement,  to decide whether something is pulled or pushed. I declare it  a draw!! But the discussion does illustrate the difference in the approaches of the rigid chassis and compensated/sprung chassis modellers. I keep saying it, at the end of the day we all make our choices and do what works for us.

Careful! Somebody's going to come along soon and mention centrifugal and centripetal force.

 

Oops...

[Atso]

Tony,

 

I'll see your (excellent) part built J6 and raise you a part painted N gauge version!

 

[Woodcock29]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Careful! Somebody's going to come along soon and mention centrifugal and centripetal force.

 

Oops...

You just did!

[DougN]

4 hours ago, Atso said:

Tony,

 

I'll see your (excellent) part built J6 and raise you a part painted N gauge version!

 

Atso, shouldnt that be "reduce" rather than raise. 

[micklner]

9 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Alan this is an N Drive motor

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/N-Drive-1015-12v-DC-micro-motor/182870714017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

You're thinking of the N20 with the D shaft

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-100RPM-Mini-Metal-Gear-Motor-with-Gearwheel-N20-3mm-Shaft-Diameter-UK/164316569047?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item264207ddd7:g:L44AAOSwvrRfJR9B&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACYBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkfOCvCjTOBWK8pwriaolq5mKkl1KrpydSO9Gsq3AImi2lfodpeuDS6rD9ARGo4fkxRpffxH5ZaRuEVUAAp3KKdIpV3C%2FRV5yQb8VvDjS1dZ5pgsZ%2BjDRPPFO9xKjh50tsjN3GOhoVtomh1uSoTURhUeWPNc9HxZHUPE6bluhIQXOIV7G9cUlSaI3A35jTrCkKE7%2FzyiHNISjgjrBwZn0i1VH%2FMhTx7obliupgx4jWS%2F%2FlOIWx8eWAeVcheOQm%2FPIF99QEkaSGgGURE1NKjfe%2BOkFZhx5IT396IQsCQLftOGME78uizQXzBBgLLJhBfj6JE15phwSWCAgQo7J2xetb0a8bQzR8ucuMeL4xooVqycNYm9q4dgMXy5TCr5IpWjC9d7tljS%2Fle9JGpvZuyGT0EzeRM4bZxanyIpn2zySgqO7N66EGPm5e6xC4UDal7Ct7VgDsIjVIsjPPW4RJx9P94nBf5jqqfeXg2rkoPwcaewg9Qm%2FgiLVwboRWujzwqZLd9RifNDG6qUmfoJqWLACnBSyn1zH0L8g2FQl0f2%2BAP%2BTHlszAUKIgGbx%2F1ATrhXTEFXeZOzDCRX%2F%2F9E%2FjDoHVpkG1f2siCkUXE6HzsBd%2BwDQmDCjh%2FZOsvZbBexvKI2LBZgs7HdFvpVmU1PigrS2BLB7ra2kMWXzPNQJ%2Fb%2FeVy6XW06Sjqs%2FLmbo%2FTmWWerzCzKWqwSgnnhaQd70VlPAjmolGKkdebjplrB6JCgZdZPMqYnFneyqgHcyoXKNdlSrw|cksum%3A1643165690479d3050b6f76f4ce79d172d108676e537|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

 

Yes that is the 1015 motor I used on the G6 BTP , worth every penny runs and pulls very well.

 

I will take a picture of it installed in the chassis later .

Edited August 21, 2020 by micklner

[Tony Wright]

Just in case anyone should think I'm prejudiced against phosphor bronze as pick-up material, I'm not. 

 

 

These are the EM frames, built by Roy Jackson to go underneath a previously-OO Gauge Gresley 'Prairie' tender loco which had been built by John Houlden for service on his (now-cremated) Gamston Bank. John lent it to Roy for service on Retford, and Roy built the EM chassis (we never did find out what happened to the original).

 

After Roy's death last year, all of John's stock was returned and sold-on. I was given the V2 (in a most-generous gesture by John) for selling all the stuff on his behalf. I then made an OO set of frames for the V2 (for use on Little Bytham, obviously), 'pinching' the wheels and motion from the EM ones (which had already been previously pinched), just new axles being necessary. 

 

I then sold-on the EM frames to good friend Ray Chessum, the donation going to Cancer Research UK. Ray, knowing of Retford's saving, then handed them back, and I'll now rebuild it for use on Retford.............. Utilising the phosphor bronze pick-ups installed by Roy (which are very discreet, but require very-subtle adjustment). Thanks again, Ray.

 

I'm puzzled why pick-ups made of different materials to the wheels' tyres should be questioned - nickel-silver rubbing against stainless steel, for instance. What about phosphor bronze rubbing against the same material, or nickel silver? Obviously, I've never had any problem with nickel silver rubbing on nickel silver, but neither have I had with nickel silver rubbing on steel - on a 4mm loco with Gibson drivers and a 7mm loco with Slater's drivers.

 

I suppose (as always) it comes down to personal preferences and what works best for each individual; and nickel silver has always worked for me - without squeaking............

[CF MRC]

On locos with scraper pick ups I make a point of polishing the pick up area of the tyre. It cuts down friction and probably reduces any squeaking.  In 2mm scale, I think most will use PB. 
 

Tim

[St Enodoc]

6 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

 In 2mm scale, I think most will use PB.

Tim, I was under the impression that most used split frames or have I misunderstood?

[micklner]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

Yes that is the 1015 motor I used on the G6 BTP , worth every penny runs and pulls very well.

 

I will take a picture of it installed in the chassis later .

N Drive motor in the BTP.

 

 

 

Tony queried the level of the smae Loco yesterday and the Buffer height clasing with kit built Coaches

 

Another photo showing the BTP level and the Buffers slightly higher than the D&S kit built Coach on a flat surface. The Loco buffers are the correct height, if anything the Coaches are slightly low. The Coach buffers wont be changed, neither will the Tension Locks which I always use on Coaches , I have tried others and they simply dont work unless you run fixed rakes.

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

It was my build and it starts on my workbench on May 5th.  I discussed it with Tony in the couple of days prior to that, I believe.  Edit - The option to link directly to a post seems to have gone, but they're on page 1788 of this thread, starting half way down.

 

It's also in the BRM Annual for 2011.

THanks Jonathan,

 

I'd forgotten about your building a J6.

 

It's a LRM 521 Series J6 I believe. Just like this one.............

 

 

An excellent kit.

 

 

Just visible is the gearwheel on the centre driver, despite the motor being 'under-slung'. 

 

 

Still, from 'normal' viewing angles, the drive is invisible.

 

More J6s later...................................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

[Tony Wright]

6 minutes ago, micklner said:

N Drive motor in the BTP.

 

 

 

Tony queried the level of the smae Loco yesterday and the Buffer height clasing with kit built Coaches

 

Another photo showing the BTP level and the Buffers slightly higher than the D&S kit built Coach on a flat surface. The Loco buffers are the correct height, if anything the Coaches are slightly low. The Coach buffers wont be changed, neither will the Tension Locks which I always use on Coaches , I have tried others and they simply dont work unless you run fixed rakes.

 

 

 

Splendid work Mick,

 

Thanks for showing us all.

 

One question (not a criticism) if I may? By chance I was reading something the other day which included the LNER painting spec' (presumably from 1923?), which states that buffer stocks should be painted black on locos. Did Darlington paint them red?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

No.2002 is indeed a fine loco and Ian's paint job is second-to-none.

 

Notwithstanding, here's the loco of yours that I think is closest to a 'showcase' model - it might surprise you:

I'm sure you can find a better picture of it.

 

This loco DOES run regularly on Grantham, now it is part of Jonathan's stud. It just seems to have a certain finesse about it and always a joy to see when it appears 'round the front' at a show.

 

It's certainly a very 'natural' loco, Graham..............

 

 

 

Especially with Ian Rathbone's peerless painting (with black stocks). 

 

I built it from a PDK kit originally for Tom Foster, and he sold it on to Jonathan Wealleans. I'm delighted it sees service on Grantham.

 

I think the subtle weathering actually makes this model far more realistic than the P2. As you know, Mark insists none of his locos be weathered, not even the motion. 

 

For realism, every loco should be weathered, even if only slightly - like this............. Though does that make it less of a 'showcase' model I wonder? Certainly a 'better' one in my view. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

 

[micklner]

The NER did there own thing for many years, into the Grouping era. They included still using the NER Classification on the Bufferbeam, Red Stocks and even their own version /shade of Apple Green.

 

In the case of the BTP the one above is the last to survive and was scrapped in 1929. You clearly see in photos in Yeadon which I used, the Stocks are still Red, due to the shade difference even in Black and White photos.

 

NBR were similar ideas, they even has their own version of lining, e.g using curved corners on the bottom of the lining on Cabs post war .

Edited August 21, 2020 by micklner

[micklner]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It's certainly a very 'natural' loco, Graham..............

 

 

 

Especially with Ian Rathbone's peerless painting (with black stocks). 

 

I built it from a PDK kit originally for Tom Foster, and he sold it on to Jonathan Wealleans. I'm delighted it sees service on Grantham.

 

I think the subtle weathering actually makes this model far more realistic than the P2. As you know, Mark insists none of his locos be weathered, not even the motion. 

 

For realism, every loco should be weathered, even if only slightly - like this............. Though does that make it less of a 'showcase' model I wonder? Certainly a 'better' one in my view. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

 

Talking of the NER again.

A question I read elsewhere recently did LNER pre war Black Locos have their Drivers lined in Red ? I dont know either way. The lovely B16 is only the second model I have ever seen with Red lining to the Drivers wheel edges, and around the axle area a first . The other one is the latest Bachmann J72 which also has Red Coupling Rods, which I believe are wrong ?.

[t-b-g]

24 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

THanks Jonathan,

 

I'd forgotten about your building a J6.

 

It's a LRM 521 Series J6 I believe. Just like this one.............

 

 

An excellent kit.

 

 

Just visible is the gearwheel on the centre driver, despite the motor being 'under-slung'. 

 

 

Still, from 'normal' viewing angles, the drive is invisible.

 

More J6s later...................................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

 

Comparing the LRM build to the new one, the position of the cab front windows in relation to the firebox look quite a bit different. Is it worth investigating? To me, it creates an impression that the boiler on the new one may be a bit low or even small in diameter but it may be an optical illusion caused by the position of the windows.

[Atso]

4 hours ago, DougN said:

Atso, shouldnt that be "reduce" rather than raise. 

 

I suspect you are right. I'll go and sit in the corner now as I feel much "thicker" and "smaller". 

[jwealleans]

50 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

the position of the cab front windows in relation to the firebox look quite a bit different. I

 

I think you're dead right, Tony.   Is it possible the boiler was intended for a conversion to something like a J4?

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

N Drive motor in the BTP.

 

 

Hi MIck,

 

I've not been aware of these motors previously although I have used its bigger brother (16/20) in one of my 'motor in tender' builds.  Can I ask please is this motor strong enough to spin the wheels if the loco  attempts to pull a train that's too heavy for it?  

 

Also how have you mounted the bogie and what radius curves will this model negotiate?  

 

I've yet to build an 0-4-4 and am always interested to hear how others have gone about building them in the hope that one day I'll have an excuse to build one myself.

 

Regards,

 

Frank

[stewartingram]

If pickups squeak, add a little Electrolube to lubricate. It is a conductive lubricant after all.

 

Stewart

[t-b-g]

9 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

I think you're dead right, Tony.   Is it possible the boiler was intended for a conversion to something like a J4?

 

I don't recall seeing it before, so I don't know. The J3/4 had all gone by the period of Retford and the mechanism being OO would suggest it was either one Roy was doing for somebody else, or alternatively somebody else had passed it to him with a " Is this any good to you?".

 

I have a vague recollection of Roy suggesting a J5 might be "close enough" in date at only 2 years out.

[Hollar]

On 14/08/2020 at 23:27, Hawin Dooiey said:

That's beautiful @Barry Ten, the refit has always been my favourite Enterprise! That last photo could almost be a still from The Motion Picture.

 

 

I'm a bit behind, but I couldn't resist asking about making scale models of imaginary prototypes.  Flawless modelmaking, but what happened to the old saw about never making models based on other people's models?

 

Tone

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

I'm puzzled why pick-ups made of different materials to the wheels' tyres should be questioned - nickel-silver rubbing against stainless steel, for instance. What about phosphor bronze rubbing against the same material, or nickel silver? Obviously, I've never had any problem with nickel silver rubbing on nickel silver, but neither have I had with nickel silver rubbing on steel - on a 4mm loco with Gibson drivers and a 7mm loco with Slater's drivers.

 

I suppose (as always) it comes down to personal preferences and what works best for each individual; and nickel silver has always worked for me - without squeaking............

 

My two penn'th on pick-ups, if I may?

 

When I made my first tentative steps into the world of chassis building nearly 40 (crikey!) years ago, I was either told or read (can't remember which) to try and aim for a rubbing rather than point contact for pick ups - dare I say (given its provenance) that the arrangement above looks like point contact on the tip of the flange?

 

I always try and arrange it so that the pick-up has a turned-up end and with it rubbing on the inside face of the wheel (as I know your locos do too, Tony). This gives a greater effective contact area, thus reducing the tendency for tip sparking which can quickly accumulate dirt and reduce efficiency. I also suspect that it (ie a rubbing contact as shown) reduces or eliminates any tendency for squeaking compared to a point contact.

 

For me, this has always worked well and I have never (to my knowledge) built a loco with squeaky pick-ups.

Edited August 21, 2020 by LNER4479

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Comparing the LRM build to the new one, the position of the cab front windows in relation to the firebox look quite a bit different. Is it worth investigating? To me, it creates an impression that the boiler on the new one may be a bit low or even small in diameter but it may be an optical illusion caused by the position of the windows.

I'll investigate, Tony,

 

However, the position of the spectacles is down to where Roy Jackson drilled them. If anything they're a twitch too high up. 

 

The position of the boiler and its diameter match the Isinglass drawing.

 

One thing I have noticed is that, although Roy fitted the spectacle plate in the position for a 521 Series, the saddle arrangement is more akin to the 536 Series, with the smokebox not overhanging quite enough. How I'd extend the smokebox, I'm not sure; not without it showing.

 

Without being disparaging to the great man's work, it's not as accurate in the smokebox/boiler/firebox/spectacle plate arrangement as the LRM kit (did Malcolm Crawley design this?). I also wonder when Roy made this J6, or at least started it. If latterly, perhaps his 'powers' were waning? 

 

No matter, I'll complete it to run on Retford. If there are anomalies, on such a vast system, I doubt many will even notice. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Tony Wright
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